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Salvage kits new option "Salvage Runes and sigils"


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@totaloverride.3240 said:@"Gaile Gray.6029"just want to remove auto salvage sigils and runes along with equipment

Add to salvage kits new option "Salvage Runes and sigils" (or simmilar) and all is good

+1

I am 100% OK with paying the cost of using a kit twice: once to salvage the item, and then again to salvage the rune. I want the option of salvaging the rune without having to resort to an extractor or a BL salvage kit.

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@"Gop.8713" said:I feel like anet probably put considerable time into developing this new system, I'd be surprised to see them backtrack before ppl have a good opportunity to see how it's working out once the initial craziness dies down . . .

Well, before when you salvaged gear, even with a Master Kit you had a pretty good chance of getting the rune / sigil back. As you leveled and changed your gear, you would recycle your runes until you hit 80 and moved to exotic gear with exotic runes. When you upgraded your exotic to ascended, again you would salvage the gear for the exotic rune and slot it into your ascended item - at this point you might choose to use a BL salvage chest depending on the value of the rune or sigil.

But now, you can't salvage a rune or sigil without either using an extractor or a BL salvage kit. Will you use a BL Salvage kit or extractor on a LV 41 Rare Greatsword? Probably not. But now your Major Sigil of Force + Major Sigil of Bloodlust have been salvaged into crafting materials.

How will you replace them?

You used to just buy them off the TP, but sooner or later there will be no inventory remaining. This means you have to craft new ones! I don't currently see a recipe available for Bloodlust, but there is one for Major Sigil of Force (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Major_Sigil_of_Force), which now requires:5x Pile of Lucent Crystal3x Giant Eye (lol)1x Symbol of Enchantment

So let's be clear about what we are talking about:

  • Leveling between LV 39 and LV 60 you are very very likely going to want to upgrade your weapon, probably several times
  • Major Sigil of Force is a commonly used Sigil for power builds

BEFORE this patch, you either used a Master Salvage Kit or just bought a new sigil off the TP for a few silverAFTER this patch, you will now have to cough up Lucent Crystals and Symbol of Enchantment, and one of the rarest crafting materials in Tyria, a Giant Eye.

Please find me a person who will read what I've typed above and remark "hmmm...good change".

Clearly this wasn't completely thought out.

But hey, I have about 350 Tomes of Knowledge in my bank, and an unused LV 80 boost, so I can promise you this won't impact me at all. It will just be a problem for anyone who might actually want to traditionally level a new character by playing the game. Silly notion, I know..

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It might be a concern to a newer player, but I have, at least, a couple of dozen BL Salvage Kits. I probably won't be using them on Rare gear, anymore, unless there is a particular Rune/Sigil I want (I can use Mystic Kits), so if I were leveling up a character and wanted a particular Rune/Sigil from some used gear, I could use the BL Kit. The BL Kits aren't very difficult to obtain.

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just good luck going trough your exotic loot over and over, searching for sigil or rune that is worth salvaging,when you open bags in Istan or similar loot-map.

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:But hey, I have about 350 Tomes of Knowledge in my bank, and an unused LV 80 boost, so I can promise you this won't impact me at all. It will just be a problem for anyone who might actually want to traditionally level a new character by playing the game. Silly notion, I know..

real nightmare for new players

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:I feel like anet probably put considerable time into developing this new system, I'd be surprised to see them backtrack before ppl have a good opportunity to see how it's working out once the initial craziness dies down . . .

Well, before when you salvaged gear, even with a Master Kit you had a pretty good chance of getting the rune / sigil back. As you leveled and changed your gear, you would recycle your runes until you hit 80 and moved to exotic gear with exotic runes. When you upgraded your exotic to ascended, again you would salvage the gear for the exotic rune and slot it into your ascended item - at this point you might choose to use a BL salvage chest depending on the value of the rune or sigil.

But now, you can't salvage a rune or sigil without either using an extractor or a BL salvage kit. Will you use a BL Salvage kit or extractor on a LV 41 Rare Greatsword? Probably not. But now your Major Sigil of Force + Major Sigil of Bloodlust have been salvaged into crafting materials.

How will you replace them?

You used to just buy them off the TP, but sooner or later there will be no inventory remaining. This means you have to craft new ones! I don't currently see a recipe available for Bloodlust, but there is one for Major Sigil of Force (
), which now requires:5x Pile of Lucent Crystal3x Giant Eye (lol)1x Symbol of Enchantment

So let's be clear about what we are talking about:
  • Leveling between LV 39 and LV 60 you are very very likely going to want to upgrade your weapon, probably several times
  • Major Sigil of Force is a commonly used Sigil for power builds

BEFORE this patch, you either used a Master Salvage Kit or just bought a new sigil off the TP for a few silverAFTER this patch, you will now have to cough up Lucent Crystals and Symbol of Enchantment, and one of the rarest crafting materials in Tyria, a Giant Eye.

Please find me a person who will read what I've typed above and remark "hmmm...good change".

Clearly this wasn't completely thought out.

But hey, I have about 350 Tomes of Knowledge in my bank, and an unused LV 80 boost, so I can promise you this won't impact me at all. It will just be a problem for anyone who might actually want to traditionally level a new character by playing the game. Silly notion, I know..

I'm not sure it can be persuasively argued that new ppl running their first toons through the game typically spend a lot of time crafting their builds as they level up. It's just not terribly helpful or important to run an optimized build for pre-80 content. I do agree that experienced players might still want to run new toons through the game to level up -- I do this myself actually -- and they may well want to use optimized builds as they go along, but it still isn't actually necessary or even very important. If you want to do it, you can, and whether you decide to do so will probably have a lot to do with your supply of gold/mats/bl kits. I'm okay with that . . .

That aside, your example doesn't really make any argument against the new system at all, you're just arguing that the recipe for the major sigil of force is unreasonable . . .

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@Gop.8713 said:I'm not sure it can be persuasively argued that new ppl running their first toons through the game typically spend a lot of time crafting their builds as they level up. It's just not terribly helpful or important to run an optimized build for pre-80 content. I do agree that experienced players might still want to run new toons through the game to level up -- I do this myself actually -- and they may well want to use optimized builds as they go along, but it still isn't actually necessary or even very important. If you want to do it, you can, and whether you decide to do so will probably have a lot to do with your supply of gold/mats/bl kits. I'm okay with that . . .

That aside, your example doesn't really make any argument against the new system at all, you're just arguing that the recipe for the major sigil of force is unreasonable . . .

You make some good points so I'll address them one at a time:

@Gop.8713 said:I'm not sure it can be persuasively argued that new ppl running their first toons through the game typically spend a lot of time crafting their builds as they level up.

I highly doubt any do. I know I didn't. But when it came time to level my 2nd character, then I knew what sigils were for, runes, etc.

@Gop.8713 said:but it still isn't actually necessary or even very important.

Those qualifiers aren't relevant. It shouldn't matter that using green/ yellow upgrade components are not "necessary" or "important" to complete open world leveling content. What does matter is that the changes made in this patch makes using upgrade components that much more difficult, and without any meaningful benefit.

The problem people had before was that you couldn't salvage sigils and were forced to vendor them. I don't think the problem was that you got sigils from salvaged gear period.

@Gop.8713 said:your example doesn't really make any argument against the new system at all, you're just arguing that the recipe for the major sigil of force is unreasonable .

Agreed, and that was the only one I looked up. But looking at a solution, which makes more sense: reviewing every crafting recipe for every upgrade component to make sure none are "unreasonable", or just implement the idea presented by the OP giving players the option to salvage just the gear, or the gear + upgrade component at the same time?

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I strongly advise new players to spend as little time as possible fiddling with gear. Upgrade if/when you get better stuff, from level up or from drops. We spend very little time at each level, so one is likely to spend more time re-gearing than playing. Obviously it makes a difference, it just doesn't matter enough to spend a lot of time on it.

Wait until L80 to optimize.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:but it still isn't actually necessary or even very important.

Those qualifiers aren't relevant. It shouldn't matter that using green/ yellow upgrade components are not "necessary" or "important" to complete open world leveling content. What does matter is that the changes made in this patch makes using upgrade components that much more difficult, and without any meaningful benefit.

The problem people had before was that you couldn't salvage sigils and were forced to vendor them. I don't think the problem was that you got sigils from salvaged gear period.

I think it is relevant. A change that makes something more expensive or inconvenient is only bad if there was value to keeping that thing cheap and easy. To me, running toons through the leveling process in optimized gear is a bit of a vanity choice, like getting a rare skin or something. There's no reason it has to be hard or expensive, but if it is that's not really a problem as I see it . . .

@"Gop.8713" said:your example doesn't really make any argument against the new system at all, you're just arguing that the recipe for the major sigil of force is unreasonable .

Agreed, and that was the only one I looked up. But looking at a solution, which makes more sense: reviewing every crafting recipe for every upgrade component to make sure none are "unreasonable", or just implement the idea presented by the OP giving players the option to salvage just the gear, or the gear + upgrade component at the same time?To me, what would make the most sense is to let this new system play out for at least a couple of months before making any changes, hopefully by then it will be apparent if any recipes are out of whack. The reason making sigils/runes salvageable only after removal might not be the best choice is that this update doesn't seem to be solely focused on clearing inventory clutter. Anet also seems to be interested in boosting the value of bl kits, upgrade extractors and legendary gear. I think we should wait and see before we decide that anything is seriously broken . . .

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  • 2 months later...

I'm a new player and I didn't install runes on my gear as I leveled to 80. I've played enough MMOs to know it is seldom worth it to upgrade leveling gear as you change it so often. This seems especially true for GG2 because the PVE content is so easy and you level very quickly. (too quickly IMO)

However, I only leveled using open world PVE; If I had leveled through PVP or dungeons, I might have felt differently.

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@Blindefender.9834 said:I'm a new player and I didn't install runes on my gear as I leveled to 80. I've played enough MMOs to know it is seldom worth it to upgrade leveling gear as you change it so often. This seems especially true for GG2 because the PVE content is so easy and you level very quickly. (too quickly IMO)

However, I only leveled using open world PVE; If I had leveled through PVP or dungeons, I might have felt differently.

If you leveled up useing spvp you would not bother at all the sigils and amulet( contain all your stat points) are 85% free you have to unlock some if you really want to.Dungeons when you find a group they wont bother with your gear if your under 80, sadly alot of groups want 80 only.

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Maybe I just have weird luck but on both my accounts I ended up with more free BLSKs than I can use ... mostly because most upgrades aren't worth saving.

@Biff.5312 said:

@DeanBB.4268 said:Not to mention that Anet's solution is in response to all the whining about too much crud filling up inventories.

Yes, and unfortunately this is a solution that I don't think anyone wanted. BUT, it was deliberate, so there's no reason to think they'll change it.

I am pretty happy with this version. The only thing it has taken away is the occasional swapping of runes because they were dirt cheap anyway.

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Actually i don't agree with this. The reason is that most sigil and runes were absolutly wortless before. Now as the volume decreases their prices are starting to go up. And not to a ridiculous rate but enough to actually give you something in return. The good sigil and runes can be expensive, but it uas always been like that.

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IMO, Anet should go back to the former recipes for MINOR sigils and runes, without ridiculously expensive charms and symbols, if they are not going to provide a way to salvage them cheaply. The major and superior runes are fine having the prices artificially jacked-up because they are not as temporary.

Just as an example, a MINOR Rune of the Mesmer now costs one gold on the TP (which is ridiculous in the first place for an item that may be used for half an hour before a better suit of armor drops and you salvage or delete the one you have) and costs about 1.47g to craft. Is anyone going to waste a gem store upgrade extractor on a minor rune? (Well, maybe when they go up to 5 gold.)

And since I am about to be informed that minor runes are totally unnecessary anyway, I must ask: Why the kitten aren't they just entirely removed from the game, then????

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@"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:

IMO, Anet should go back to the former recipes for MINOR sigils and runes, without ridiculously expensive charms and symbols, if they are not going to provide a way to salvage them cheaply. The major and superior runes are fine having the prices artificially jacked-up because they are not as temporary.

Just as an example, a MINOR Rune of the Mesmer now costs one gold on the TP (which is ridiculous in the first place for an item that may be used for half an hour before a better suit of armor drops and you salvage or delete the one you have) and costs about 1.47g to craft. Is anyone going to waste a gem store upgrade extractor on a minor rune? (Well, maybe when they go up to 5 gold.)

And since I am about to be informed that minor runes are totally unnecessary anyway, I must ask: Why the kitten aren't they just entirely removed from the game, then????

The same reason they haven't removed fine, masterwork, rares yet. Their main purpose isn't to get used by the be salvaged to provide materials for other stuff. Also to pad the various "rewards" so that there is more than one item being given.

Something like minor run of the mesmer is especially bad since it is exactly the same as minor rune of infiltration.

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@Khisanth.2948 said:

@"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:

IMO, Anet should go back to the former recipes for MINOR sigils and runes, without ridiculously expensive charms and symbols, if they are not going to provide a way to salvage them cheaply. The major and superior runes are fine having the prices artificially jacked-up because they are not as temporary.

Just as an example, a MINOR Rune of the Mesmer now costs one gold on the TP (which is ridiculous in the first place for an item that may be used for half an hour before a better suit of armor drops and you salvage or delete the one you have) and costs about 1.47g to craft. Is anyone going to waste a gem store upgrade extractor on a minor rune? (Well, maybe when they go up to 5 gold.)

And since I am about to be informed that minor runes are totally unnecessary anyway, I must ask: Why the kitten aren't they just entirely removed from the game, then????

The same reason they haven't removed fine, masterwork, rares yet. Their main purpose isn't to get used by the be salvaged to provide materials for other stuff. Also to pad the various "rewards" so that there is more than one item being given.

Something like minor run of the mesmer is especially bad since it is exactly the same as minor rune of infiltration.

The minor rune of the mesmer has a higher demand that predates the rune change, too. It trades (53-101s) at 2/3 of its crafting cost (~150s). So it's not a good illustration of the theory.

Take the Privateer minor instead. There's no source except mystic forge & the new recipe and requires the same base materials as Mesmer minor: brilliance x1, lucent x1. It uses 1 or 2 Silver Doubloons in place of Crystal Sliver x2 or 1 Crystal Fragment. Despite crafting costs of over 3.5g, Privateer minor trades at 3-8 silver, 1-3% of the crafting cost.

And at that price, they are affordable, given that people are generally able to get more from their salvaged goods.


The next argument that people usually make is "eventually the TP will run out of cheap overstock." Which is true. But by then, there's a good chance that the supply of charms & symbols will start to have built up their own overstock. People salvage an enormous amount of gear and the vast majority of those mats remain in the storage tab of account banks, until folks need the space. Given the tiny drop rates, it's going to take a while before we notice the effects.

Meantime, veterans don't much need minor or major runes, while new players are now able to get more value for their loot than before. The net result ends up being positive, even if there are a few seemingly high-priced minors or majors.

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