so whats wvw like with sanc rune...

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I heard some ppl are abusing it (naturally) and have near perma max barrier? can anyone confirm this?

[Israel.7056]

Completely broken.

[hunkamania.7561]

the damage is so overtuned in this game so i dunno. you get caught in a good bomb and you are dead no matter what.

[Nightshade.2570]

It was nerfed on Scourges yesterday. It does not work the same anymore.

[Dawdler.8521]

Still more interested to see what happens when zergs discover vampirism runes and just go full power dps for everyone... and when roamers discover speed runes and have 66% swiftness permanently as opposed to the plebs running a mere 33%. Permastealth deadeyes with permasuperspeed? Its like heaven, I'm sure.

[Jski.6180]

One shots are the only real dmg in wvw atm. The runes with def / support effects where way over buffed. So when your going down from one shots it feels like dmg is too much but most of the time your surging off the 5k hits from other classes due to 100k ish healing per sec and self healing AND barrier and boons.

This was a problem before sanc its worst now.

[Turk.5460]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Still more interested to see what happens when zergs discover vampirism runes and just go full power dps for everyone... and when roamers discover speed runes and have 66% swiftness permanently as opposed to the plebs running a mere 33%. Permastealth deadeyes with permasuperspeed? Its like heaven, I'm sure.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Thief

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Nightshade.2570 said:It was nerfed on Scourges yesterday. It does not work the same anymore.scourge is not the only class that benefits from this rune.@Dawdler.8521 said:Still more interested to see what happens when zergs discover vampirism runes and just go full power dps for everyone... and when roamers discover speed runes and have 66% swiftness permanently as opposed to the plebs running a mere 33%. Permastealth deadeyes with permasuperspeed? Its like heaven, I'm sure.me too so I can sell my vamp runes haha. also stamina sigil which has been broken forever yet no one seems to use it.

[Shagaliscious.6281]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Still more interested to see what happens when zergs discover vampirism runes and just go full power dps for everyone... and when roamers discover speed runes and have 66% swiftness permanently as opposed to the plebs running a mere 33%. Permastealth deadeyes with permasuperspeed? Its like heaven, I'm sure.

Someone did the math, it's not as fast as superspeed."In combat movespeed with Swiftness but without Rune of Speed is at ~ 279 u/sIn combat movespeed with Swiftness and with Rune of Speed is at ~ 350 u/sIn combat movespeed with Superspeed is at 400 u/s"https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9wyjek/to_clear_up_some_confusion_around_rune_of_speed/?utm_content=title&utm_medium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=Guildwars2

[Ansau.7326]

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Still more interested to see what happens when zergs discover vampirism runes and just go full power dps for everyone... and when roamers discover speed runes and have 66% swiftness permanently as opposed to the plebs running a mere 33%. Permastealth deadeyes with permasuperspeed? Its like heaven, I'm sure.

Someone did the math, it's not as fast as superspeed."In combat movespeed with Swiftness but without Rune of Speed is at ~ 279 u/sIn combat movespeed with Swiftness and with Rune of Speed is at ~ 350 u/sIn combat movespeed with Superspeed is at 400 u/s"

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9wyjek/to_clear_up_some_confusion_around_rune_of_speed/?utm_content=title&utm_medium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=Guildwars2

That's because superspeed grants +100% movement speed. Rune of speed boosts Swiftness to +66%.

[Capitol.3815]

@Ansau.7326 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Still more interested to see what happens when zergs discover vampirism runes and just go full power dps for everyone... and when roamers discover speed runes and have 66% swiftness permanently as opposed to the plebs running a mere 33%. Permastealth deadeyes with permasuperspeed? Its like heaven, I'm sure.

Someone did the math, it's not as fast as superspeed."In combat movespeed with Swiftness but without Rune of Speed is at ~ 279 u/sIn combat movespeed with Swiftness and with Rune of Speed is at ~ 350 u/sIn combat movespeed with Superspeed is at 400 u/s"

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9wyjek/to_clear_up_some_confusion_around_rune_of_speed/?utm_content=title&utm_medium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=Guildwars2

That's because superspeed grants +100% movement speed. Rune of speed boosts Swiftness to +66%.

But out of combat they both bring you to the cap.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Nightshade.2570 said:It was nerfed on Scourges yesterday. It does not work the same anymore.scourge is not the only class that benefits from this rune.@Dawdler.8521 said:Still more interested to see what happens when zergs discover vampirism runes and just go full power dps for everyone... and when roamers discover speed runes and have 66% swiftness permanently as opposed to the plebs running a mere 33%. Permastealth deadeyes with permasuperspeed? Its like heaven, I'm sure.me too so I can sell my vamp runes haha. also stamina sigil which has been broken forever yet no one seems to use it.

Shhhhhhhhh =D

[Dawdler.8521]

@Capitol.3815 said:

@Ansau.7326 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Still more interested to see what happens when zergs discover vampirism runes and just go full power dps for everyone... and when roamers discover speed runes and have 66% swiftness permanently as opposed to the plebs running a mere 33%. Permastealth deadeyes with permasuperspeed? Its like heaven, I'm sure.

Someone did the math, it's not as fast as superspeed."In combat movespeed with Swiftness but without Rune of Speed is at ~ 279 u/sIn combat movespeed with Swiftness and with Rune of Speed is at ~ 350 u/sIn combat movespeed with Superspeed is at 400 u/s"

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9wyjek/to_clear_up_some_confusion_around_rune_of_speed/?utm_content=title&utm_medium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=Guildwars2

That's because superspeed grants +100% movement speed. Rune of speed boosts Swiftness to +66%.

But out of combat they both bring you to the cap.But glhf trying to maintain superspeed. Maintaining permaswiftness is a

little

easier.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Nightshade.2570 said:It was nerfed on Scourges yesterday. It does not work the same anymore.scourge is not the only class that benefits from this rune.@Dawdler.8521 said:Still more interested to see what happens when zergs discover vampirism runes and just go full power dps for everyone... and when roamers discover speed runes and have 66% swiftness permanently as opposed to the plebs running a mere 33%. Permastealth deadeyes with permasuperspeed? Its like heaven, I'm sure.me too so I can sell my vamp runes haha. also stamina sigil which has been broken forever yet no one seems to use it.

Shhhhhhhhh =Dwoops

[Blocki.4931]

Why would Vampirism be broken? It barely does anything, it's an entirely "win more" set, because good luck full killing people in zergs on demand. You either roll them other and they die or you don't, the rune doesn't make it easier if you win because you're already winning and if you lose and can't kill anybody it doesn't do jack.

[Helly.2597]

@"Blocki.4931" said:Why would Vampirism be broken? It barely does anything, it's an entirely "win more" set, because good luck full killing people in zergs on demand. You either roll them other and they die or you don't, the rune doesn't make it easier if you win because you're already winning and if you lose and can't kill anybody it doesn't do jack.

Shhhhhhh!

But yes exactly this. People always point out how broken these sort of sigils/runes are, but there is a reason they aren't used very often. They're just snowball harder gains which don't help you win fights you shouldnt/aren't already.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@"Blocki.4931" said:Why would Vampirism be broken? It barely does anything, it's an entirely "win more" set, because good luck full killing people in zergs on demand. You either roll them other and they die or you don't, the rune doesn't make it easier if you win because you're already winning and if you lose and can't kill anybody it doesn't do jack.

so your argument is that "oh well theyre already winning so having a free ~2k heal per kill is ok"?that aside its not like only one side is killing people. its common enough for both sides to get several kills within a few seconds of clashing every push.

[Hitman.5829]

It is not OP, I even try it on the shatter event where there are like 50+ stacked players spamming skills and I was getting 4000 to 5000 barrier. In WvW it is even less because there are not so many people like in world bosses.

Do the math:Lets say you get heal by 500 on average, then you get 500*.20 = 100 barrier.If you multiply by 50 people in a blob then you get 5000 barrier. That is if all of them spam healing skills at the same time! Also think about how healing works, some healing skills have maximum capacity of 5 players, so there are going to be some players who are not going to get heals.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Hitman.5829 said:It is not OP, I even try it on the shatter event where there are like 50+ stacked players spamming skills and I was getting 4000 to 5000 barrier. In WvW it is even less because there are not so many people like in world bosses.

Do the math:Lets say you get heal by 500 on average, then you get 500*.20 = 100 barrier.If you multiply by 50 people in a blob then you get 5000 barrier. That is if all of them spam healing skills at the same time! Also think about how healing works, some healing skills have maximum capacity of 5 players, so there are going to be some players who are not going to get heals.

good point. a lot of heals are small, but what about a typical guardian spamming resolve, dodges, and mantra heal? thats an average of 2500 heal or 500 barrier. that's kind of a lot lol when it all adds up. were not even getting into heal rev and 12k tablet heals (2500 barrier).

[Hitman.5829]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:It is not OP, I even try it on the shatter event where there are like 50+ stacked players spamming skills and I was getting 4000 to 5000 barrier. In WvW it is even less because there are not so many people like in world bosses.

Do the math:Lets say you get heal by 500 on average, then you get 500*.20 = 100 barrier.If you multiply by 50 people in a blob then you get 5000 barrier. That is if all of them spam healing skills at the same time! Also think about how healing works, some healing skills have maximum capacity of 5 players, so there are going to be some players who are not going to get heals.

good point. a lot of heals are small, but what about a typical guardian spamming resolve, dodges, and mantra heal? thats an average of 2500 heal or 500 barrier. that's kind of a lot lol when it all adds up. were not even getting into heal rev and 12k tablet heals (2500 barrier).

Well, 500 barrier is not alot, a simple autoattack is in the range of 1000 damage.Also, keep in mind that in a group, the heals have priority and only members of the group get heal (provided that they stay in range).

lets do the math:For the sake of argument lets assume you are right and on average you get 2500 heals; that is equal to 500 barrier, so if we multiply by 2 (2 healers per party), then you get 1000 barrier per healing party per healing skill.

Keep in mind that there are auto attack skills with higher damage than this.I really don't think this rune is OP.

[RisenHowl.2419]

So look at it this way:

Old scrapper gets 10k has

Now add 10% from monk runes change

11k

Now add sanctuary:

13.2k

Healers just got 32% stronger and don't waste it over healing. And everyone gains 1k hp from vitality, and 15% boon duration. This puts zerker scourge at 30% boon duration off the bat, helping keep might up.

By making the change squad wide you definitely aren't losing 32% damage from a rune swap. So whoever runs sactuary just got much stronger overall

Edit: way to boost build diversity

[lodjur.1284]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:Why would Vampirism be broken? It barely does anything, it's an entirely "win more" set, because good luck full killing people in zergs on demand. You either roll them other and they die or you don't, the rune doesn't make it easier if you win because you're already winning and if you lose and can't kill anybody it doesn't do jack.

so your argument is that "oh well theyre already winning so having a free ~2k heal per kill is ok"?that aside its not like only one side is killing people. its common enough for both sides to get several kills within a few seconds of clashing every push.

It's incredibly situational. It only works under very specific circumstances.

1. You need to be in need of healing. (If multiple enemies are dying this is not very likely, and if only 1 enemy dies it's not particularly good)
2. Someone needs to die. (That is an incredibly hard thing to time)
3. The healing needs to actually be enough/timed correctly enough for it to matter.

In addition to this, the rune basically already existed in a better version. Sigil of Stamina on healing guards does the exact same thing only in an AoE with a dodge attached to it.

Runes/Sigils that are only good when you're winning are not good. It's just winmore. Winning with 100% hp left isn't any better than winning with 50% hp left. A rune like durability/sanctuary/whateverdamageruneyouprefer can actually make you win fights you would otherwise lose.

Sanctuary on the other hands is amazingly broken. 20% more healing gained that works with overhealing, now that is broken.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Hitman.5829 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:It is not OP, I even try it on the shatter event where there are like 50+ stacked players spamming skills and I was getting 4000 to 5000 barrier. In WvW it is even less because there are not so many people like in world bosses.

Do the math:Lets say you get heal by 500 on average, then you get 500*.20 = 100 barrier.If you multiply by 50 people in a blob then you get 5000 barrier. That is if all of them spam healing skills at the same time! Also think about how healing works, some healing skills have maximum capacity of 5 players, so there are going to be some players who are not going to get heals.

good point. a lot of heals are small, but what about a typical guardian spamming resolve, dodges, and mantra heal? thats an average of 2500 heal or 500 barrier. that's kind of a lot lol when it all adds up. were not even getting into heal rev and 12k tablet heals (2500 barrier).

Well, 500 barrier is not alot, a simple autoattack is in the range of 1000 damage.Also, keep in mind that in a group, the heals have priority and only members of the group get heal (provided that they stay in range).

lets do the math:For the sake of argument lets assume you are right and on average you get 2500 heals; that is equal to 500 barrier, so if we multiply by 2 (2 healers per party), then you get 1000 barrier per healing party per healing skill.

Keep in mind that there are auto attack skills with higher damage than this.I really don't think this rune is OP.

dood why don't you do the math lol. spamming resolve 4 times, heal 3 times, mace 3 shield 4, 2 dodges equals 5500 barrier. that's kind of a lot.

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:Why would Vampirism be broken? It barely does anything, it's an entirely "win more" set, because good luck full killing people in zergs on demand. You either roll them other and they die or you don't, the rune doesn't make it easier if you win because you're already winning and if you lose and can't kill anybody it doesn't do jack.

so your argument is that "oh well theyre already winning so having a free ~2k heal per kill is ok"?that aside its not like only one side is killing people. its common enough for both sides to get several kills within a few seconds of clashing every push.

It's incredibly situational. It only works under very specific circumstances.

1. You need to be in need of healing. (If multiple enemies are dying this is not very likely, and if only 1 enemy dies it's not particularly good)
2. Someone needs to die. (That is an incredibly hard thing to time)
3. The healing needs to actually be enough/timed correctly enough for it to matter.

In addition to this, the rune basically already existed in a better version. Sigil of Stamina on healing guards does the exact same thing only in an AoE with a dodge attached to it.

Runes/Sigils that are only good when you're winning are not good. It's just winmore. Winning with 100% hp left isn't any better than winning with 50% hp left. A rune like durability/sanctuary/whateverdamageruneyouprefer can actually make you win fights you would otherwise lose.

Sanctuary on the other hands is amazingly broken. 20% more healing gained that works with overhealing, now that is broken.

even if its 4 kills over 25 sec, which should be extremely easy to do, that's a second heal right there. its op. if youre killing a lot in the span of a few seconds, its a ton of extra heal. if youre frontline and tagging everything you should be able to get a lot of kills fast. chances are if youre frontline and pushing you will need heals. lol you don't have to be winning to benefit from on kill procs. chances are if your side has damage you should be getting kills. its fairly common for both sides to get lots of kills. idk how to explain this lol. it seems like common sense to me. anyway this isn't about on kill stuff so lets swing the convo back to sanctuary runes.

[lodjur.1284]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:even if its 4 kills over 25 sec, which should be extremely easy to do, that's a second heal right there. its op. if youre killing a lot in the span of a few seconds, its a ton of extra heal. if youre frontline and tagging everything you should be able to get a lot of kills fast. chances are if youre frontline and pushing you will need heals. lol you don't have to be winning to benefit from on kill procs. chances are if your side has damage you should be getting kills. its fairly common for both sides to get lots of kills. idk how to explain this lol. it seems like common sense to me.

There's still a lot of if's and chances in this. It's about as unreliable as a rune can get. Comparing it to sanctuary or durability just makes it seems awful.

20k hp means 10k hp/kill, let's use your example of 4 kills over 25 sec, that's 8k hp/25 sec, that's 320 hp/second. This is assuming 4 kills/25 sec and that all the healing would be used effectively (which is a pretty bold assumption). The worst case scenario is 0 hp/sec.

While playing in a group (with double firebrands) most builds have at least 2k+ healing incoming/sec (counting their own). At this point sanctuary is 400 hp/second, in an extremely reliable way that does not just get spent on overhealing and works even when things are going poorly. The worst case scenario is basically the 400 hp/second.

Comparing either to Durabillity is harder because that is less damage taken and more boonspam.

[ArchonWing.9480]

This is why nobody will ever take this game seriously.