Sanctuary runes ruin WvW

[RisenHowl.2419]

run monk runes on healers, sanctuary runes on everyone else. instantly win every single fight as you roll through groups twice your size

this patch gave zergs 32% more sustain (+10% monks, +20% sanctuary, it's multiplicative for 32%), just from a rune swap. This means you can run full zerker builds for every dps, and still come out tankier than your group was before the change. in addition, your bombs will drop half a zerg on every push from the extra damage.

it needs removed because if you aren't running the runes, you lose. way to boost build diversity!

Edit:Maybe nerfing necro again will help!

[Dawdler.8521]

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:instantly win every single fight as you roll through groups twice your sizeWvW players: "zergbusting with lower player count needs to be a thing because its about skill, WvW is ruined because guilds cant fight zergs!"

Also WvW players: "now we can win against groups twice our size, WvW is ruined because zergbusting is a thing!"

[Boredom.3867]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:instantly win every single fight as you roll through groups twice your sizeWvW players:

"zergbusting with lower player count needs to be a thing because its about skill, WvW is ruined because guilds cant fight zergs!"

Also WvW players:

"now we can win against groups twice our size, WvW is ruined because zergbusting is a thing!"

There is a difference between zergbusting with skill/tactics and just forcing your way through with a broken rune. It won't last long when everyone starts using it.

[SkyShroud.2865]

Yea, that's not zerg busting, that's just slow adaption to the changes. Once everyone adapted to the changes, you will realize zerg busting is still a dream.

[aspirine.6852]

They just make balanced guild groups ever better, nice logic there Anet.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

the barrier uptime is crazy as well.

[Luranni.9470]

It's an abomination.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@Boredom.3867 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:instantly win every single fight as you roll through groups twice your sizeWvW players:

"zergbusting with lower player count needs to be a thing because its about skill, WvW is ruined because guilds cant fight zergs!"

Also WvW players:

"now we can win against groups twice our size, WvW is ruined because zergbusting is a thing!"

There is a difference between zergbusting with skill/tactics and just forcing your way through with a broken rune. It won't last long when everyone starts using it.

Plus the bigger group can use it too.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Boredom.3867 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:instantly win every single fight as you roll through groups twice your sizeWvW players:

"zergbusting with lower player count needs to be a thing because its about skill, WvW is ruined because guilds cant fight zergs!"

Also WvW players:

"now we can win against groups twice our size, WvW is ruined because zergbusting is a thing!"

There is a difference between zergbusting with skill/tactics and just forcing your way through with a broken rune. It won't last long when everyone starts using it.

Plus the bigger group can use it too.

When two 50m groups collide, you're either at full health with 10k barrier or you drop instantly and are then instantly rested by MI. It's awful

[aspirine.6852]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Boredom.3867 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:instantly win every single fight as you roll through groups twice your sizeWvW players:

"zergbusting with lower player count needs to be a thing because its about skill, WvW is ruined because guilds cant fight zergs!"

Also WvW players:

"now we can win against groups twice our size, WvW is ruined because zergbusting is a thing!"

There is a difference between zergbusting with skill/tactics and just forcing your way through with a broken rune. It won't last long when everyone starts using it.

Plus the bigger group can use it too.

No they wont, it's usually guilds that run cheese sustain builds because they can.

[Shagaliscious.6281]

@aspirine.6852 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Boredom.3867 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:instantly win every single fight as you roll through groups twice your sizeWvW players:

"zergbusting with lower player count needs to be a thing because its about skill, WvW is ruined because guilds cant fight zergs!"

Also WvW players:

"now we can win against groups twice our size, WvW is ruined because zergbusting is a thing!"

There is a difference between zergbusting with skill/tactics and just forcing your way through with a broken rune. It won't last long when everyone starts using it.

Plus the bigger group can use it too.

No they wont, it's usually guilds that run cheese sustain builds because they can.

Yea, how dare they not run a 20 man group with full zerk, bunch of pussies

[ArchonWing.9480]

@aspirine.6852 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Boredom.3867 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:instantly win every single fight as you roll through groups twice your sizeWvW players:

"zergbusting with lower player count needs to be a thing because its about skill, WvW is ruined because guilds cant fight zergs!"

Also WvW players:

"now we can win against groups twice our size, WvW is ruined because zergbusting is a thing!"

There is a difference between zergbusting with skill/tactics and just forcing your way through with a broken rune. It won't last long when everyone starts using it.

Plus the bigger group can use it too.

No they wont, it's usually guilds that run cheese sustain builds because they can.

But they already run "cheese" because they can, wouldn't they also run as a blob because they can?

Whether or not people actually choose to run fat with the runes is not the point. It's the same reason why the argument defending defending siege turtling because it favors the smaller group is nonsense-- there's no reason why a bigger group can't do that.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@aspirine.6852 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Boredom.3867 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:instantly win every single fight as you roll through groups twice your sizeWvW players:

"zergbusting with lower player count needs to be a thing because its about skill, WvW is ruined because guilds cant fight zergs!"

Also WvW players:

"now we can win against groups twice our size, WvW is ruined because zergbusting is a thing!"

There is a difference between zergbusting with skill/tactics and just forcing your way through with a broken rune. It won't last long when everyone starts using it.

Plus the bigger group can use it too.

No they wont, it's usually guilds that run cheese sustain builds because they can.

But they already run "cheese" because they can, wouldn't they also run as a blob because they can?

Whether or not people actually choose to run fat with the runes is not the point. It's the same reason why the argument defending defending siege turtling because it favors the smaller group is nonsense-- there's no reason why a bigger group can't do that.

They will do just that, after last night I know we're swapping over. No point in playing if you aren't running the same, regardless of group size

[Cloud.7089]

Regardless what you might think, more sustain is better for a late stage game. I thinks people don't understand how at the top for fights guilds a single bomb can end a fight. Literally 1 bomb will decide an entire fight and it turns this game into a W key game mode. No one wants to play that. As far as im concerned, decimate AOE targeting skills by 40% buff single target skills by 40% and keep the sustain buffs going. Gonna tell me a return to a kitten mode is gonna drive off new blood and old blood as well? Maybe so, ded game mode anyway. Might as well make it kitten for new blood.

[sostronk.8167]

Would PUGs/randoms bother running such a build knowing they will tag less with less damage?

Would this rune be more attractive to organized guilds or "PUG blobs" that never leave EB?

[RisenHowl.2419]

@LegoBrave.6147 said:Regardless what you might think, more sustain is better for a late stage game. I thinks people don't understand how at the top for fights guilds a single bomb can end a fight. Literally 1 bomb will decide an entire fight and it turns this game into a W key game mode. No one wants to play that. As far as im concerned, decimate AOE targeting skills by 40% buff single target skills by 40% and keep the sustain buffs going. Gonna tell me a return to a kitten mode is gonna drive off new blood and old blood as well? Maybe so, ded game mode anyway. Might as well make it kitten for new blood.

This rune isn't being used to give 32% more sustain. You change your stats towards pure pve raid builds, and only run sanctuary as your defense. This in effect is just a giant increase in outgoing damage at the cost of no group sustain.

It isn't making fights longer, it's making whoever runs them do more damage, ending fights faster than before. They completely shut down every other rune option and become a win condition for zerging.

@"sostronk.8167" said:

1. Would PUGs/randoms bother running such a build knowing they will tag less with less damage?
2. Would this rune be more attractive to organized guilds or "PUG blobs" that never leave EB?

1. You alter your build to do more damage, and let the sanctuary runes give you all the sustain you need. Damage dealt only matters outside of a squad, if you're in a squad you get loot just from tagging.

2. Organized guilds. To be most effective, they require healers running monk runes.

[Aeolus.3615]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:run monk runes on healers, sanctuary runes on everyone else. instantly win every single fight as you roll through groups twice your size

this patch gave zergs 32% more sustain (+10% monks, +20% sanctuary, it's multiplicative for 32%), just from a rune swap. This means you can run full zerker builds for every dps, and still come out tankier than your group was before the change. in addition, your bombs will drop half a zerg on every push from the extra damage.

it needs removed because if you aren't running the runes, you lose. way to boost build diversity!

Edit:Maybe nerfing necro again will help!

Zergs in this game isnt about skill, its about gimmicks and aoe spam capabilities :;) its a game for bad players and casuals at best.Expect on next expantion something more stronger with passive aoe than scourge lol.... to make scrubs want to be carried with next gimmick.

Scourge was a bad desingned class, working as intended, bad players need a alot of these to look good.

[SkyShroud.2865]

I am sure zerg is about skill, just not team skill, more about individual skill. Yea sure, spamming sounds easy but not for newbies.Team skill is limited to very few tactic.

[Ansau.7326]

DPS classes in zergs already run as much offensive as comfortably people can, either marauder, marauder/zerker or full zerker. In reality there is little damage to gain for most people. Also, running Sanctuary runes means losing Strength/Scholar. The damage gained by running full zerker is countered by the loss of damage coming from the runes.But more importantly, barriers gained by Sanctuary conflict and are nullified by barriers granted by scourges. As long as you have good Scourges, Sanctuary runes are mostly useless. And in case you have bad Scourges, Sanctuary runes are the least of your worries.

[ArchonWing.9480]

While we're at it, someone tell me about the new monk runes. It's such a pain to get them that I want to know how they were buffed.

I have enough Koda tokens for some reason, so Sanc runes aren't a problem but just want to check them out cuz if Anet hits the nerf bat, it'll suck. And i really don't want to put effort into gearing anymore, at this point.

[steki.1478]

@Ansau.7326 said:DPS classes in zergs already run as much offensive as comfortably people can, either marauder, marauder/zerker or full zerker. In reality there is little damage to gain for most people. Also, running Sanctuary runes means losing Strength/Scholar. The damage gained by running full zerker is countered by the loss of damage coming from the runes.But more importantly, barriers gained by Sanctuary conflict and are nullified by barriers granted by scourges. As long as you have good Scourges, Sanctuary runes are mostly useless. And in case you have bad Scourges, Sanctuary runes are the least of your worries.

Finally someone gets it. Difference between full zerk and full marauder is barely visible. You essentially lose 10% damage because you're not using offensive runes. You just get extra sustain because of barriers. Saying that you get 32% damage bonus is just wrong.

[bq pd.2148]

@steki.1478 said:Saying that you get 32% damage bonus is just wrong.if your opponents have 32% more sustain, killing them leads to 32% higher numbers in your damagemeters.

[borgs.6103]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:While we're at it, someone tell me about the new monk runes. It's such a pain to get them that I want to know how they were buffed.

I have enough Koda tokens for some reason, so Sanc runes aren't a problem but just want to check them out cuz if Anet hits the nerf bat, it'll suck. And i really don't want to put effort into gearing anymore, at this point.Used them with my support FB. Basically during clashes, it's permanent +10% outgoing healing.

[steki.1478]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@steki.1478 said:Saying that you get 32% damage bonus is just wrong.if your opponents have 32% more sustain, killing them leads to 32% higher numbers in your damagemeters.

That doesnt mean that people using sanc runes have 32% more damage. 32% isnt even realistic gain in sustain.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@steki.1478 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@steki.1478 said:Saying that you get 32% damage bonus is just wrong.if your opponents have 32% more sustain, killing them leads to 32% higher numbers in your damagemeters.

That doesnt mean that people using sanc runes have 32% more damage. 32% isnt even realistic gain in sustain.

Full zerker is a sizeable increase over marauder, and few people run full offensive stats in a zerg anyways. Most guild groups tend to run at least 2.5k armor. Now they don't need to.

There is not a single reason to run anything other than sanctuary runes for everyone not on a healer and monk runes on healers, the runes are that much stronger than any other options.

Added bonus, if you're only missing 100 hp and get a 4k heal, you still get a 1k barrier. It's based off of healing incoming, not how much hp is being restored. This makes it a very efficient healing modifier, it can't overheal and won't ever hit the barrier cap on its own.