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@"TheQuickFox.3826" said:We REALLY need a solution for all those players who missed Living World season 1 and its achievements.

Why though, Anet all but stopped those who play daily from progressing in AP until an update comes out that gives 50-100AP, those who missed LS1 will eventually get the rewards from AP as they play, i find it strange people want 1 group of players kneecapped from progressing but want another group given free stuff from the game that was available long before they even played,

Ive never picked up a game years after it came out and thought, its totally unfair that some people who played from day 1 have more than me, it boggles the mind that people in this community still think and believe that they are entitled to everything without even putting the time and effort it.

Its pretty clear Anet slowed the AP down because of rewards and or some people using the complaint that i need to grind them out, where as if you only get 1AP for a weeks worth of grinding some people are less likely to bother with it, and the end of the day AP is linked to personal reward it doesnt affect anyone else other than in bragging rights, and i feel Anet missed that point completely by restricting veteran players over casuals who play 1 hour a day or less "because they couldn't catch up"

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@Ok I Did It.2854 said:

@"TheQuickFox.3826" said:We REALLY need a solution for all those players who missed Living World season 1 and its achievements.

Why though, Anet all but stopped those who play daily from progressing in AP until an update comes out that gives 50-100AP, those who missed LS1 will eventually get the rewards from AP as they play, i find it strange people want 1 group of players kneecapped from progressing but want another group given free stuff from the game that was available long before they even played,

Ive never picked up a game years after it came out and thought, its totally unfair that some people who played from day 1 have more than me, it boggles the mind that people in this community still think and believe that they are entitled to everything without even putting the time and effort it.

Its pretty clear Anet slowed the AP down because of rewards and or some people using the complaint that i need to grind them out, where as if you only get 1AP for a weeks worth of grinding some people are less likely to bother with it, and the end of the day AP is linked to personal reward it doesnt affect anyone else other than in bragging rights, and i feel Anet missed that point completely by restricting veteran players over casuals who play 1 hour a day or less "because they couldn't catch up"

I think it is less "these people have more than me"And more "I can never access all the things that they have had access too"Generally, people expect to have the same chances to earn these things but the lack of LWS1 stuff means that they are still short compared to their fellow players.It is one thing to have more for playing longer but a whole other thing to have had access to more than many other players.

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@"hellsqueen.3045" said:I think it is less "these people have more than me"And more "I can never access all the things that they have had access too"

In terms of earning the higher AP rewards, For now.

Generally, people expect to have the same chances to earn these things but the lack of LWS1 stuff means that they are still short compared to their fellow players.

For now.

It is one thing to have more for playing longer but a whole other thing to have had access to more than many other players.

In terms of the AP rewards, which this thread is about, people that sank their time into the game have ergo earned more. This doesn’t mean you will never get the same rewards, since AP is infinitely added to the game when Anet choose to do so. This goes back to thinking about the AP rewards as a ‘track’ to complete, instead of a reward scheme.

You’d have a point if Anet announced they’re not adding any more points to the game.

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If I’m reading gw2efficiency correctly, on top of 15,000 maximum AP for Daily and now discontinued monthly points, there’s 16,000~ Permanent Points actually in the game. So, 31,000 permanent AP exists in the game right now. Then we can start to add on the seasonal AP people can earn each and every year.To quote Maddoctor, who provided exact numbers (thanks)

The actual number of temporary LS1 AP is only 1926 and 165 retired achievements for a total of missing AP: 2091Considering these numbers, those discontinued APs aren’t that big a deal if you still haven’t capped out on Daily points, or earned a big chunk of that permanent 16kAP.Thank u, next.

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@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@"hellsqueen.3045" said:I think it is less "these people have more than me"And more "I can never access all the things that they have had access too"

In terms of earning the higher AP rewards, For now.

Generally, people expect to have the same chances to earn these things but the lack of LWS1 stuff means that they are still short compared to their fellow players.

For now.

It is one thing to have more for playing longer but a whole other thing to have had access to more than many other players.

In terms of the AP rewards, which this thread is about, people that sank their time into the game have ergo earned more. This doesn’t mean you will never get the same rewards, since AP is infinitely added to the game when Anet choose to do so. This goes back to thinking about the AP rewards as a ‘track’ to complete, instead of a reward scheme.

You’d have a point if Anet announced they’re not adding any more points to the game.

If they ever stopped releasing them, there will be people who are permanently short.People already miss out on straight up story and the things that came with it.That is simply a bad design.

It is one thing to have DLC or Expansion which are behind paywalls.It is a whole other things that LWS1 has only been able to be done by a portion of the community with no hope for the rest.I'd pay for LWS1 if they could work it into the game, I paid for LWS2 because I joined after it.I want to play the game without missing out simply because of a bad design choice that means people discovering the game late can never play it at all.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:Whether or not there is agreement on an improvement to it or the ap levels given out, it is def a reward track.

By being infinite, it's not a track anymore. Tracks always have an end. Further, if it was a reward track, it would be here:
But it's not, because it's fundamentally different to the others so why call it a "reward track", when it looks nothing like one

Neither of those reasons subtract from it being a reward track. It's just a different type of track to the others. A reward track doesn't have to have an end at all to define it.

It progresses and rewards like a reward track does, it just does so in an unrelated to way to the others as it is a diff system.

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@hellsqueen.3045 said:I want to play the game without missing out simply because of a bad design choice that means people discovering the game late can never play it at all.

Would having those extra 2k AP from LS1 allow you to reach your goal now? Or you'd still complain anyway?Because this part of your OP is about just those 2k AP:

There is a lot of content missing from the game that used to award tons of achievements points, with LWS1 gone, there is a huge set of AP that players do not get to earn.

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@"Randulf.7614" said:It progresses and rewards like a reward track does, it just does so in an unrelated to way to the others as it is a diff system.

So it's like a reward track but with a different system.... and you still call it a reward track. We'll agree to disagree here, because the achievement rewards are a different system and are not even recognized by the game itself as a "reward track" (you can't get bonus AP progress items/buffs) so I'll continue calling them completely different because to me, they are.

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@"Haleydawn.3764" said:If I’m reading gw2efficiency correctly, on top of 15,000 maximum AP for Daily and now discontinued monthly points, there’s 16,000~ Permanent Points actually in the game. So, 31,000 permanent AP exists in the game right now. Then we can start to add on the seasonal AP people can earn each and every year.

Yes 31,663 AP are available in the game right now, there was some form of mess up with the AP semi-recently that removed historical achievements from the tracker, and gw2efficiency lost those as well. I think the developer of the API made a change that reset the API, now everything was in an "undiscovered" state until players re-discovered them. Only items that players find/achieve are visible on the API and while items, recipes and current achievements were re-achieved and re-added to the tracker, we'll never get access to the historical AP again because no player can ever achieve those again because they are no longer available so they are lost forever from the API.Luckily I saved a copy of the AP totals in an excel file to keep them alive.

The top EU player has 38742 AP. Now if we add the 2097 from LS1 we get a total of 33760. the rest, about 5k-6k AP, is from festivals... ouch.

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Let's put 1 thing in perspective, the majority of AP missing for newer players is dailies. Period.

The feeling of you never being able to reach or achieve what others have is to a very big amount based on the fact that you have spent less time on the game. Something which can correct its self with time. It is not locked away from you.

As mentioned by maddoctor, the actual unavailable amount of AP is minuscule. People are looking at total AP (max being 38742 currently for the Leaderboard leader) and then assume them trailing behind is due to unavailable AP. That is simply not the case. Almost half of those AP are from the 15,000 daily AP cap, which most new players have not achieved yet.

As far as availability, call yourself what you want, if you have played the game for 3 years and have around 13k AP you are not an AP hunter (daily AP alone for that time is close to 11k meaning you have completed around 2k AP if you've been as dedicated as you say). You are a player who enjoys collecting AP (and that is fine, just realize you are NOT an AP hunter), there is people far more dedicated than you though (not going to argue that 24/7 playing a game is healthy or good, but there is a huge difference in game time allocation here).

You now have a choice:

  • up your game and match the time that others are investing in the game, reach near peak AP, then come back and complain because that's when you've actually hit the barrier which prevents you from being equal

or

  • realize that AP are a side goal and you can go at them at your own pace.

Also the data-mined 60k AP might never actually ever get reached at the pace that AP are getting added into the game and the usual lifetime of an MMO. Aiming for that is just ludicrous. All the realistic rewards are or will become available by the time you reach the 15k AP daily cap.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@hellsqueen.3045 said:I want to play the game without missing out simply because of a bad design choice that means people discovering the game late can never play it at all.

Would having those extra 2k AP from LS1 allow you to reach your goal now? Or you'd still complain anyway?Because this part of your OP is about just those 2k AP:

There is a lot of content missing from the game that used to award tons of achievements points, with LWS1 gone, there is a huge set of AP that players do not get to earn.

It may not get me to my goal, but it will get me closer.It gives me more to choose from to reach my goal.Right now I am forcing myself to do achievements that make me feel like sometimes what I am doing isn't worth it.PvP achievements make me miserable, but here I am, still doing them.Overall, I just think the game could be a little more generous for everyone when it comes to AP.You have to work your butt off for it and yet there is like tons of other stuff where you can work less hard for more.Wanting extra achievements that comes from something I have always wanted to experience, I guess that is a whole other gripe.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:Whether or not there is agreement on an improvement to it or the ap levels given out, it is def a reward track.

By being infinite, it's not a track anymore. Tracks always have an end. Further, if it was a reward track, it would be here:
But it's not, because it's fundamentally different to the others so why call it a "reward track", when it looks nothing like one

You do the thing, you progress along the track, which provides rewards. It is a reward track. It's absurd to argue otherwise . . .

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@Haleydawn.3764 said:The AP rewards are more akin to a shop reward scheme. It’s never ending, consistent, and gives a similar but varied award for each milestone, with every 5k being the “nice one for your commitment to the game!” Chest. This is why the small, large and heavy Achievement chests repeat.It’s not a track to complete.It’s a bonus scheme.

This is why I've always felt removing the unique rewards and just having the reward track repeat would be the best solution . . .

Giving the unending nature of the reward track, it needs an unending source of ap. Dailies were one solution. The sunken treasure chest thing was another great addition which took 99 days to complete, unless you got lucky and rng shortened it for you. As long as they keep introducing regular sources of ap, there really isn't any problem with the ap reward track except that there are some ppl who can't recognize it for what it is . . .

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@"hellsqueen.3045" said:

It may not get me to my goal, but it will get me closer.It gives me more to choose from to reach my goal.Right now I am forcing myself to do achievements that make me feel like sometimes what I am doing isn't worth it.PvP achievements make me miserable, but here I am, still doing them.Overall, I just think the game could be a little more generous for everyone when it comes to AP.You have to work your butt off for it and yet there is like tons of other stuff where you can work less hard for more.Wanting extra achievements that comes from something I have always wanted to experience, I guess that is a whole other gripe.So you want to work less for more? It doesn't and shouldn't work that way. "I want something far down the road that I have to work toward faster because others started before me." "I want this thing now so the system should change, not me." True AP hunters adapt and work hard to get these rewards. They don't ask for the system to change because the work gets tough.

Here's some more numbers for you. 16 hours a week can get you 10k AP your first year as long as you progress through the game. I know this because I did it on a fresh account (on stream in front of an audience mind you). I reached the 10k AP in 11 months then stopped actively playing the account. That account is now 2 years old and has over 14k AP. I haven't even progressed through all of PoF or completed HoT. I also haven't done much in WvW or PvP either. Other players have reported reaching 12k AP the first year of play and some players can reach 18k AP by the end of their second year. Only about 7.3k of that is dailies so that means by the end of year 3 players should be holding 23k+ AP if they are actively achievement hunting and logging in daily. That 23k+ AP is where most of the achievement hunters were at back in 2015. The system hasn't excluded enough AP to handicap newer players and, at this point, never will. You have to put the same amount of time or effort (maybe a little less) to reach the same rewards we have.

@"Gop.8713" said:

This is why I've always felt removing the unique rewards and just having the reward track repeat would be the best solution . . .

Giving the unending nature of the reward track, it needs an unending source of ap. Dailies were one solution. The sunken treasure chest thing was another great addition which took 99 days to complete, unless you got lucky and rng shortened it for you. As long as they keep introducing regular sources of ap, there really isn't any problem with the ap reward track except that there are some ppl who can't recognize it for what it is . . .You mean like Daily Log-in Rewards. Anet has given us that system as well. And if you can't tell what systems are already in place then you go ahead and muddy the waters with this "AP Reward Track" thing. Those who know the system well cringe knowing you think reward tracks don't end. You even say "just having the reward track repeat" in your last post. The Daily Log-in Reward system is a reward track, sure, but not the AP reward system.

And to help if you don't understand, tracks are usually infinite loops. I say usually because some reward tracks in the game can't be repeated. The AP reward system is linear with intersecting rewards every so many points. This is much like leveling a character or what some like to call vertical progression. Feels good to get a bigger number and be recognized for it.

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@"Gop.8713" said:You do the thing, you progress along the track, which provides rewards. It is a reward track. It's absurd to argue otherwise . . .

There is no "extra AP gain buff", like with reward tracks. It's not on the reward track entry on the wiki. It's infinite and not finite, it's not even complete. You can't see any of the rewards unless you data-mine it. It's not a reward track and it's absurd to argue otherwise.

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@Zorric.5704 said:

@"hellsqueen.3045" said:

It may not get me to my goal, but it will get me closer.It gives me more to choose from to reach my goal.Right now I am forcing myself to do achievements that make me feel like sometimes what I am doing isn't worth it.PvP achievements make me miserable, but here I am, still doing them.Overall, I just think the game could be a little more generous for everyone when it comes to AP.You have to work your butt off for it and yet there is like tons of other stuff where you can work less hard for more.Wanting extra achievements that comes from something I have always wanted to experience, I guess that is a whole other gripe.So you want to work less for more? It doesn't and shouldn't work that way. "I want something far down the road that I have to work toward faster because others started before me." "I want this thing now so the system should change, not me." True AP hunters adapt and work hard to get these rewards. They don't ask for the system to change because the work gets tough.

Here's some more numbers for you. 16 hours a week can get you 10k AP your first year as long as you progress through the game. I know this because I did it on a fresh account (on stream in front of an audience mind you). I reached the 10k AP in 11 months then stopped actively playing the account. That account is now 2 years old and has over 14k AP. I haven't even progressed through all of PoF or completed HoT. I also haven't done much in WvW or PvP either. Other players have reported reaching 12k AP the first year of play and some players can reach 18k AP by the end of their second year. Only about 7.3k of that is dailies so that means by the end of year 3 players should be holding 23k+ AP if they are actively achievement hunting and logging in daily. That 23k+ AP is where most of the achievement hunters were at back in 2015. The system hasn't excluded enough AP to handicap newer players and, at this point, never will. You have to put the same amount of time or effort (maybe a little less) to reach the same rewards we have.

@"Gop.8713" said:

This is why I've always felt removing the unique rewards and just having the reward track repeat would be the best solution . . .

Giving the unending nature of the reward track, it needs an unending source of ap. Dailies were one solution. The sunken treasure chest thing was another great addition which took 99 days to complete, unless you got lucky and rng shortened it for you. As long as they keep introducing regular sources of ap, there really isn't any problem with the ap reward track except that there are some ppl who can't recognize it for what it is . . .You mean like Daily Log-in Rewards. Anet has given us that system as well. And if you can't tell what systems are already in place then you go ahead and muddy the waters with this "AP Reward Track" thing. Those who know the system well cringe knowing you think reward tracks don't end. You even say "just having the reward track repeat" in your last post. The Daily Log-in Reward system is a reward track, sure, but not the AP reward system.

And to help if you don't understand, tracks are usually infinite loops. I say usually because some reward tracks in the game can't be repeated. The AP reward system is linear with intersecting rewards every so many points. This is much like leveling a character or what some like to call vertical progression. Feels good to get a bigger number and be recognized for it.

Except it is a reward track bc as you progress along it you receive rewards. I find this dispute comical . . .

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:You do the thing, you progress along the track, which provides rewards. It is a reward track. It's absurd to argue otherwise . . .

There is no "extra AP gain buff", like with reward tracks. It's not on the reward track entry on the wiki. It's infinite and not finite, it's not even complete. You can't see any of the rewards unless you data-mine it. It's not a reward track and it's absurd to argue otherwise.

You're wrong and you should change your mind . . .

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@Gop.8713 said:

Except it is a reward track bc as you progress along it you receive rewards. I find this dispute comical . . .So leveling is a reward track too? Everything in the game that has increasing numbers and gives a reward is a reward track? Masteries are earned in reward tracks? Earning gold itself is a reward track because the number goes up and I can get something? Where's the line? I find it comical you want to generalize something hugely so you can be right in a post about AP and how to obtain it effectively. Can we move back on topic?

You can totally start a new topic on schemes and paradigms if you wish.

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@Zorric.5704 said:

@"hellsqueen.3045" said:

It may not get me to my goal, but it will get me closer.It gives me more to choose from to reach my goal.Right now I am forcing myself to do achievements that make me feel like sometimes what I am doing isn't worth it.PvP achievements make me miserable, but here I am, still doing them.Overall, I just think the game could be a little more generous for everyone when it comes to AP.You have to work your butt off for it and yet there is like tons of other stuff where you can work less hard for more.Wanting extra achievements that comes from something I have always wanted to experience, I guess that is a whole other gripe.So you want to work less for more? It doesn't and shouldn't work that way. "I want something far down the road that I have to work toward faster because others started before me." "I want this thing now so the system should change, not me." True AP hunters adapt and work hard to get these rewards. They don't ask for the system to change because the work gets tough.

Here's some more numbers for you. 16 hours a week can get you 10k AP your first year as long as you progress through the game. I know this because I did it on a fresh account (on stream in front of an audience mind you). I reached the 10k AP in 11 months then stopped actively playing the account. That account is now 2 years old and has over 14k AP. I haven't even progressed through all of PoF or completed HoT. I also haven't done much in WvW or PvP either. Other players have reported reaching 12k AP the first year of play and some players can reach 18k AP by the end of their second year. Only about 7.3k of that is dailies so that means by the end of year 3 players should be holding 23k+ AP if they are actively achievement hunting and logging in daily. That 23k+ AP is where most of the achievement hunters were at back in 2015. The system hasn't excluded enough AP to handicap newer players and, at this point, never will. You have to put the same amount of time or effort (maybe a little less) to reach the same rewards we have.

@"Gop.8713" said:

This is why I've always felt removing the unique rewards and just having the reward track repeat would be the best solution . . .

Giving the unending nature of the reward track, it needs an unending source of ap. Dailies were one solution. The sunken treasure chest thing was another great addition which took 99 days to complete, unless you got lucky and rng shortened it for you. As long as they keep introducing regular sources of ap, there really isn't any problem with the ap reward track except that there are some ppl who can't recognize it for what it is . . .You mean like Daily Log-in Rewards. Anet has given us that system as well. And if you can't tell what systems are already in place then you go ahead and muddy the waters with this "AP Reward Track" thing. Those who know the system well cringe knowing you think reward tracks don't end. You even say "just having the reward track repeat" in your last post. The Daily Log-in Reward system is a reward track, sure, but not the AP reward system.

And to help if you don't understand, tracks are usually infinite loops. I say usually because some reward tracks in the game can't be repeated. The AP reward system is linear with intersecting rewards every so many points. This is much like leveling a character or what some like to call vertical progression. Feels good to get a bigger number and be recognized for it.

I mean, throughout this post (including comments) I have been asking for a slight increase for everyone. I don't desire to get ahead of anyone who has been working their butt off and has more achievements then me.I just think some things that reward AP give too little sometimes and that everyone deserves a few points more across the achievements we have. Just like a few more for certain things.

For example, token collecter in Ember Bay offered 1AP per token.But Coin Collecting in Dry Top gave 15AP for 30 coins and 5AP for 12. I don't necessarily want one for every coin, but like a small increase in numbers, at the very least the 30 coin ones could award 20AP, instead of 15. Just small little boosts for some things. This is just an example but they probably can't update old ones for everyone, so it is more just a thought about what would make it feel better.It doesn't even make it so those Achieves even close to match the rewards of Token Collector, but it just bumps it up slightly.

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I have only one good memory from LS1, scarlet's chest gave me my first and only precursor, she was really annoying. It was very hard for those player who played outside na primetime. For the event of the 5 lanes of the marionette many players (me incl.) were guesting on BG or JQ, because the lower population server couldn't make it or their world boss train farmed the event in their primetime, leaving players from other timezones left behind. The megaserver didn't exist there. Yes I always wanted to free Lion's Arch, but I had no chance, even when I've tried many times. So don't think you would have got the ap easily during the short 2 weeks period. I'm more than happy that anet changed the Living Story in repeatable chapters.

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