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@Gop.8713 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:If it took 'veteran' players 6 years to obtain those 'unique' rewards, should it take less than 6 years for new players? If so, why?

The same reason we do not force new players to wait two years after they start HoT before we allow them to start PoF . . .

One of those 2 things is reward related, the other is gameplay related. Last I checked, achieving the same rewards from HoT takes just as long now as it did back when HoT released, if not even longer.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:If it took 'veteran' players 6 years to obtain those 'unique' rewards, should it take less than 6 years for new players? If so, why?

The same reason we do not force new players to wait two years after they start HoT before we allow them to start PoF . . .

One of those 2 things is reward related, the other is gameplay related.

And neither is timegated . . .

Last I checked, achieving the same rewards from HoT takes just as long now as it did back when HoT released, if not even longer.

And you feel that should be further extended to account for how long original players had to wait for the release? Why? To what possible purpose . . ?

EDIT: Or were you saying you agree that new players shouldn't be forced to wait the six years bc they already have to put in more effort than original players did? I'm not sure if I'm understanding your point correctly . . .

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:If it took 'veteran' players 6 years to obtain those 'unique' rewards, should it take less than 6 years for new players? If so, why?

The same reason we do not force new players to wait two years after they start HoT before we allow them to start PoF . . .

One of those 2 things is reward related, the other is gameplay related.

And neither is timegated . . .

Last I checked, achieving the same rewards from HoT takes just as long now as it did back when HoT released, if not even longer.

And you feel that should be further extended to account for how long original players had to wait for the release? Why? To what possible purpose . . ?

EDIT: Or were you saying you agree that new players shouldn't be forced to wait the six years bc they already have to put in more effort than original players did? I'm not sure if I'm understanding your point correctly . . .

I am saying, back when the daily AP cap was introduced, it made up more than half of the total available AP. Now it makes up around 1/3 and is ever shrinking with each new AP addition to the game.

I am saying that players who are still climbing the ranks in AP get the same rewards as veteran players, only faster since they have way more possible achievement points available to them. That already is a benefit versus veteran players.

Only because YOU want a loyalty reward faster is no reason to change how this loyalty reward works.

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@hellsqueen.3045 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:I used to care about getting all the AP I can. I'm at the point now that the only way for me to make real progression is to play competitive modes. Even then that still won't be enough to come close the players that are in the top ranking. There's about 7k points worth that they have that I am unable to earn that are just gone from the game. I've hit my limit with no physical way to be competitive.

I don't want more than the highest players or compete with the AP levels of people who have come before me, across the board I would like AP rewards to be better. You get so little AP for so many difficult things and then heaps for something that isn't that important or difficult (eg. Collections compared to Daily AP).

I want everyone to be better rewarded.I also want people who have paid for the game experience to have access to all content from the game, EG LWS1. The story is gone and the AP access is gone and that isn't fair for a story item.

There was a time that we got so little during some episodes, then achievements out of nowhere we did get like 10AP. It has been all over the place, but this season seems to be pretty decent considering. That single dodge AP for Drakkar does seem a bit overkill though.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:If it took 'veteran' players 6 years to obtain those 'unique' rewards, should it take less than 6 years for new players? If so, why?

The same reason we do not force new players to wait two years after they start HoT before we allow them to start PoF . . .

One of those 2 things is reward related, the other is gameplay related. Last I checked, achieving the same rewards from HoT takes just as long now as it did back when HoT released, if not even longer.

I mean, giving out free level boosts to new players who buy the expansion so they can skip gameplay and learning in order to catch up to content seems unwise to me. They get rewarded for not following the content in the same order as everyone else.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:If it took 'veteran' players 6 years to obtain those 'unique' rewards, should it take less than 6 years for new players? If so, why?

The same reason we do not force new players to wait two years after they start HoT before we allow them to start PoF . . .

One of those 2 things is reward related, the other is gameplay related.

And neither is timegated . . .

Last I checked, achieving the same rewards from HoT takes just as long now as it did back when HoT released, if not even longer.

And you feel that should be further extended to account for how long original players had to wait for the release? Why? To what possible purpose . . ?

EDIT: Or were you saying you agree that new players shouldn't be forced to wait the six years bc they already have to put in more effort than original players did? I'm not sure if I'm understanding your point correctly . . .

I am saying, back when the daily AP cap was introduced, it made up more than half of the total available AP. Now it makes up around 1/3 and is ever shrinking with each new AP addition to the game.

I am saying that players who are still climbing the ranks in AP get the same rewards as veteran players, only faster since they have way more possible achievement points available to them. That already is a benefit versus veteran players.

Only because YOU want a loyalty reward faster is no reason to change how this loyalty reward works.

I'm taking that to mean that my original interpretation of your post was correct rather than the one my edit. So again I must ask why. What would be the benefit of extending the rewards for new players out to same period from purchase that original players experienced . . ?

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@hellsqueen.3045 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:If it took 'veteran' players 6 years to obtain those 'unique' rewards, should it take less than 6 years for new players? If so, why?

The same reason we do not force new players to wait two years after they start HoT before we allow them to start PoF . . .

One of those 2 things is reward related, the other is gameplay related. Last I checked, achieving the same rewards from HoT takes just as long now as it did back when HoT released, if not even longer.

I mean, giving out free level boosts to new players who buy the expansion so they can skip gameplay and learning in order to catch up to content seems unwise to me. They get rewarded for not following the content in the same order as everyone else.

Again, that is a GAMEPLAY issue, not reward. Also you are correct, I do think the level boosts cause serious issues and should not have been implemented the way they were, but that is beside the point.

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:If it took 'veteran' players 6 years to obtain those 'unique' rewards, should it take less than 6 years for new players? If so, why?

The same reason we do not force new players to wait two years after they start HoT before we allow them to start PoF . . .

One of those 2 things is reward related, the other is gameplay related.

And neither is timegated . . .

Last I checked, achieving the same rewards from HoT takes just as long now as it did back when HoT released, if not even longer.

And you feel that should be further extended to account for how long original players had to wait for the release? Why? To what possible purpose . . ?

EDIT: Or were you saying you agree that new players shouldn't be forced to wait the six years bc they already have to put in more effort than original players did? I'm not sure if I'm understanding your point correctly . . .

I am saying, back when the daily AP cap was introduced, it made up more than half of the total available AP. Now it makes up around 1/3 and is ever shrinking with each new AP addition to the game.

I am saying that players who are still climbing the ranks in AP get the same rewards as veteran players, only faster since they have way more possible achievement points available to them. That already is a benefit versus veteran players.

Only because YOU want a loyalty reward faster is no reason to change how this loyalty reward works.

I'm taking that to mean that my original interpretation of your post was correct rather than the one my edit. So again I must ask why. What would be the benefit of extending the rewards for new players out to same period from purchase that original players experienced . . ?

It's a loyalty reward. What are the benefits to reducing this time frame? Who gets to benefit from that and what is the new time frame supposed to be? What about players who never did achievement point dailies? What about veterans who have not been receiving daily achievement points for years?

Not every reward mechanic needs a catch-up mechanic. Gameplay mechanics do, reward mechanics, especially ones which are mostly cosmetic, do not.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:If it took 'veteran' players 6 years to obtain those 'unique' rewards, should it take less than 6 years for new players? If so, why?

The same reason we do not force new players to wait two years after they start HoT before we allow them to start PoF . . .

One of those 2 things is reward related, the other is gameplay related. Last I checked, achieving the same rewards from HoT takes just as long now as it did back when HoT released, if not even longer.

I mean, giving out free level boosts to new players who buy the expansion so they can skip gameplay and learning in order to catch up to content seems unwise to me. They get rewarded for not following the content in the same order as everyone else.

Again, that is a GAMEPLAY issue, not reward. Also you are correct, I do think the level boosts cause serious issues and should not have been implemented the way they were, but that is beside the point.

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:If it took 'veteran' players 6 years to obtain those 'unique' rewards, should it take less than 6 years for new players? If so, why?

The same reason we do not force new players to wait two years after they start HoT before we allow them to start PoF . . .

One of those 2 things is reward related, the other is gameplay related.

And neither is timegated . . .

Last I checked, achieving the same rewards from HoT takes just as long now as it did back when HoT released, if not even longer.

And you feel that should be further extended to account for how long original players had to wait for the release? Why? To what possible purpose . . ?

EDIT: Or were you saying you agree that new players shouldn't be forced to wait the six years bc they already have to put in more effort than original players did? I'm not sure if I'm understanding your point correctly . . .

I am saying, back when the daily AP cap was introduced, it made up more than half of the total available AP. Now it makes up around 1/3 and is ever shrinking with each new AP addition to the game.

I am saying that players who are still climbing the ranks in AP get the same rewards as veteran players, only faster since they have way more possible achievement points available to them. That already is a benefit versus veteran players.

Only because YOU want a loyalty reward faster is no reason to change how this loyalty reward works.

I'm taking that to mean that my original interpretation of your post was correct rather than the one my edit. So again I must ask why. What would be the benefit of extending the rewards for new players out to same period from purchase that original players experienced . . ?

It's a loyalty reward.

It's really not, as you yourself point out in your examples. There are players who have been around for less than a year who have higher ap than some who have been around since beta. It's a reward for players who do the cheeves . . .

What are the benefits to reducing this time frame?

There has been no discussion of reducing any time frames . . .

Who gets to benefit from that and what is the new time frame supposed to be?

I'm not sure, you brought it up. The question the third party posed was whether new players should be forced to wait on ap for the same time period original players were. This is an extension, not a reduction. No one has discussed reducing any time frame. I'm not even sure how that would be possible in the current context, absent granting ap on install. I'm not even sure this was supposed to be answerable in the affirmative. The point very well may have been to make an absurd suggestion, forcing anyone who answers to explain why it was absurd, so that it could then be determined whether that rationale could be applied to other matters being discussed in the thread. You could try answering the question and maybe we could see . . .

What about players who never did achievement point dailies?

I cannot see how they would be affected . . .

What about veterans who have not been receiving daily achievement points for years?

Again, I can't see how they would be affected . . .

Not every reward mechanic needs a catch-up mechanic.

Probably better to think of it as a make-up mechanic. There are parts of the game which, for purely technical reasons, new players do not have access to. As far as we know, there is nothing that can be done about this technical restriction. The absence of that content has also had a ripple effect into the ap reward track but there are solutions available for that. Would it be good to implement those solutions? Why or why not? If withholding access to those rewards is good, why would it not also be good to withhold access to rewards for other content that players do not complete in a timely manner? What makes, for example, the rewards for LS1 different from the rewards for LS2? If withholding LS1 rewards is a good, why do we not also withhold rewards for LS2? If withholding LS1 rewards is not good, why would we not search for ways to remedy the ill . . ?

Gameplay mechanics do, reward mechanics, especially ones which are mostly cosmetic, do not.

That is an opinion and you are entitled to it, but it is not an opinion that anet seems to share. Accessibility is a cornerstone of their subscription-free, buy to play model. The game is specifically designed so that taking a break doesn't set you back, you can easily make up for lost time when you return . . .

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How are these 'new players' supposed to have access to the APs released in the first 18 months? What constitutes a 'new player'? Do these 'new players' get the APs sans playing? Are they able to earn (if not just given) them in less than 18 months?
If it's earned by gameplay, how does the game keep non-'new players' from earning these APs? Would the playerbase be content with new content that awarded APs to some, but not others? Content that some players earn rewards for less or no gameplay than those that have played for longer?

What, exactly, is the plan to award 'new players' these Season One/Festival APs (that won't go over like lead balloon)?I mean, either free APs are awarded to anyone that didn't complete the required content, whether 'new' or not....or create new content to be completed (and everyone will want to be allowed to play and earn APs or there will be backlash, I'd imagine). If the Devs are going to use resources to create new content, I'm guessing they want everyone to be eligible.

Perhaps, those early APs must just be thought of as 'early adopters' rewards. Much like the extra Shared Inventory Slot space no longer available from the purchase of Deluxe or Ultimate Heart of Thorns, or the Celebration Hat, or the pre-purchase Titles.

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:If it took 'veteran' players 6 years to obtain those 'unique' rewards, should it take less than 6 years for new players? If so, why?

The same reason we do not force new players to wait two years after they start HoT before we allow them to start PoF . . .

One of those 2 things is reward related, the other is gameplay related. Last I checked, achieving the same rewards from HoT takes just as long now as it did back when HoT released, if not even longer.

I mean, giving out free level boosts to new players who buy the expansion so they can skip gameplay and learning in order to catch up to content seems unwise to me. They get rewarded for not following the content in the same order as everyone else.

Again, that is a GAMEPLAY issue, not reward. Also you are correct, I do think the level boosts cause serious issues and should not have been implemented the way they were, but that is beside the point.

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:If it took 'veteran' players 6 years to obtain those 'unique' rewards, should it take less than 6 years for new players? If so, why?

The same reason we do not force new players to wait two years after they start HoT before we allow them to start PoF . . .

One of those 2 things is reward related, the other is gameplay related.

And neither is timegated . . .

Last I checked, achieving the same rewards from HoT takes just as long now as it did back when HoT released, if not even longer.

And you feel that should be further extended to account for how long original players had to wait for the release? Why? To what possible purpose . . ?

EDIT: Or were you saying you agree that new players shouldn't be forced to wait the six years bc they already have to put in more effort than original players did? I'm not sure if I'm understanding your point correctly . . .

I am saying, back when the daily AP cap was introduced, it made up more than half of the total available AP. Now it makes up around 1/3 and is ever shrinking with each new AP addition to the game.

I am saying that players who are still climbing the ranks in AP get the same rewards as veteran players, only faster since they have way more possible achievement points available to them. That already is a benefit versus veteran players.

Only because YOU want a loyalty reward faster is no reason to change how this loyalty reward works.

I'm taking that to mean that my original interpretation of your post was correct rather than the one my edit. So again I must ask why. What would be the benefit of extending the rewards for new players out to same period from purchase that original players experienced . . ?

It's a loyalty reward.

It's really not, as you yourself point out in your examples. There are players who have been around for less than a year who have higher ap than some who have been around since beta. It's a reward for players who do the cheeves . . .

Yes, and that was their choice, as is new players who do not care about AP. The daily AP are rewards for loyalty.

@Gop.8713 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:What are the benefits to reducing this time frame?

There has been no discussion of reducing any time frames . . .

I'm talking about the 15,000 AP from daily rewards. Those are time gated behind 4.1 years of doing dailies.

@Gop.8713 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Who gets to benefit from that and what is the new time frame supposed to be?

I'm not sure, you brought it up. The question the third party posed was whether new players should be forced to wait on ap for the same time period original players were. This is an extension, not a reduction.

How is this an extension? How can you be arguing no time frame, then 1 sentence later talk about players waiting? What are you even on about now?

With exception to the time saved via monthlies, the time frame for reaching the 15k AP cap is the same for EVERY player. The time frame required to reach the possible AP cap excluding daily AP is lower for new players by mere fact that there is way more achievements available outside of dailies. The time required for new players to reach maximum AP combined with dailies remains the same as it is/was for veterans who have been doing dailies.

@Gop.8713 said:No one has discussed reducing any time frame. I'm not even sure how that would be possible in the current context, absent granting ap on install. I'm not even sure this was supposed to be answerable in the affirmative. The point very well may have been to make an absurd suggestion, forcing anyone who answers to explain why it was absurd, so that it could then be determined whether that rationale could be applied to other matters being discussed in the thread. You could try answering the question and maybe we could see . . .

... I don't even know what you are talking about by now.

@Gop.8713 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:What about players who never did achievement point dailies?

I cannot see how they would be affected . . .

What about veterans who have not been receiving daily achievement points for years?

Again, I can't see how they would be affected . . .

Dailies AP directly affect a central LOYALTY REWARD MECHANIC of this game. Yet you do not see how this could affect players who participated or did not participate in this mechanic? Okay.

@Gop.8713 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Not every reward mechanic needs a catch-up mechanic.

Probably better to think of it as a make-up mechanic.

You can call it what you want. The argument remains the same:The daily cap rewards player loyalty over x amount of time. There is no need for any make up mechanic if the desired effect is to reward player loyalty.

@Gop.8713 said:There are parts of the game which, for purely technical reasons, new players do not have access to. As far as we know, there is nothing that can be done about this technical restriction. The absence of that content has also had a ripple effect into the ap reward track but there are solutions available for that. Would it be good to implement those solutions? Why or why not? If withholding access to those rewards is good, why would it not also be good to withhold access to rewards for other content that players do not complete in a timely manner? What makes, for example, the rewards for LS1 different from the rewards for LS2? If withholding LS1 rewards is a good, why do we not also withhold rewards for LS2? If withholding LS1 rewards is not good, why would we not search for ways to remedy the ill . . ?

It has been pointed out MULTIPLE time by now that the effective AP out of which players are locked out who missed Living World Season 1 is around 3-4k AP. Insignificant in the total amount of available AP. Yes, I personally do agree that it would be great to have some way of offering player a chance to acquire these AP, though I am sure some players would disagree.

This is absolutely unrelated to the daily AP cap.

@Gop.8713 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Gameplay mechanics do, reward mechanics, especially ones which are mostly cosmetic, do not.

That is an opinion and you are entitled to it, but it is not an opinion that anet seems to share. Accessibility is a cornerstone of their subscription-free, buy to play model. The game is specifically designed so that taking a break doesn't set you back, you can easily make up for lost time when you return . . .

It is an opinion they have remained loyal to in most of their content, if you actually look at relevant content.

  • Past AP still require the same amount of effort, in part even more, to be granted the achievements.
  • time limited festivals which only grant AP during those periods, with yearly achievements
  • time sensitive cosmetic rewards
  • time sensitive living world free access loyalty reward
  • a cycling login bonus which continually increases ones account https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chest_of_Loyalty
  • a rather stable economy, which directly results in continued accumulation of wealth for active players versus stagnation of inactive players (unlike many MMORPGs which continually devalue past progress and introduce inflation to reduce past currency acquisition)

The game allows for you to leave and not be set back from a GAMEPLAY perspective, certainly not from a reward or wealth perspective. You continually seem to not understand the difference or intentionally not want to understand the difference. FYI achievement points, and their rewards, fall in the later categories.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

... I don't even know what you are talking about by now.Clearly. You interjected yourself into a discussion about the missing AP from LS1 and how it locked new players out from the highest currently available unique rewards on the AP reward track. But you thought we were discussing daily AP, which we were not. But no blood no foul, I forgive you. Glhf :)

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@Gop.8713 said:

... I don't even know what you are talking about by now.Clearly. You interjected yourself into a discussion about the missing AP from LS1 and how it locked new players out from the highest currently available unique rewards on the AP reward track. But you thought we were discussing daily AP, which we were not. But no blood no foul, I forgive you. Glhf :)

Sorry, I went by what was being discussed in the thread, which from a perspective of someone complaining about max AP, is far more relevant in concern to daily AP, which are also mentioned over and over in this thread.

As far as Living World Season 1 missed AP, I've already pointed to the fact that the actual amount of missed AP is insignificant for current players since it's not more than 3-4k, but yes, I do favor some way of reintroducing that content (more than the AP) with maybe some way to reacquire the AP from then.

Then again, I did point that out back in 2018, even bolded it as first sentence in my comment from then.

EDIT:read through the thread again, the lost AP to season 1 is actually even less than I remembered, being a total of around slightly above 2k. The fact players make such a fuss about missing out on these AP when sitting at 13-16k AP total is confusing to me when the total amount of available AP has reached above 40k. Anyone below 20k AP has enough content to work through to gain AP if desired, unless they are missing ALL the possible daily AP.

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@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:How are these 'new players' supposed to have access to the APs released in the first 18 months?They already do. The vast majority of AP made available prior to a new player purchasing the game is available upon purchase. Only a very small amount is excluded, and only due to a technical limitation . . .What constitutes a 'new player'?A 'new player' would be a player that started after another 'veteran' -- 'less new'? 'not as new'? w/e you like, I don't think it matters much -- player. It's a relative term. In this context we're discussing players who started too late to acquire the AP that would allow them to reach the last currently available unique reward along the ap reward track. If you're hung up on the 'new player' idea, keep in mind that any player affected by that missing ap would be affected by any solution to that missing ap, including players who were around at launch but took a break, or who were playing but couldn't or didn't do the cheeves, etc. . . .Do these 'new players' get the APs sans playing?

I suppose that would be one solution, but probably not a very good one. I think the best solution would be to remove the unique rewards from the reward track, eliminating the harm the missing ap causes . . .Are they able to earn (if not just given) them in less than 18 months?

I can't see any reason how long it takes one player to do something should impact how long it takes another . . .If it's earned by gameplay, how does the game keep non-'new players' from earning these APs?If you wanted to try to solve the problem by introducing 'make up' ap -- which I do not believe would be a very good choice -- you would have to limit that ap to accounts that did not have the ap being made up for. It seems like a bit of a logistical nightmare, one of several reasons it doesn't seem like a very good idea . . .Would the playerbase be content with new content that awarded APs to some, but not others? Content that some players earn rewards for less or no gameplay than those that have played for longer?I think it would probably be taken the same way other efforts to encourage new players to join the game have been taken. Some would resent their 'veteran status' being eroded, others would be excited by the attempt to make more new players feel more welcome, and most would be primarily concerned with their own experience and not very much with how it compares to someone else's . . .What, exactly, is the plan to award 'new players' these Season One/Festival APs (that won't go over like lead balloon)?I'm not sure there was one? The solution I pointed out as the best I'd seen was to remove the unique rewards from the track. But if you feel making up the actual ap is a better solution and want to brainstorm on that for a bit I'm sure you could come up with something there too, maybe something even better than my suggestion. As long as you recognize the problem we're headed in the right direction . . .I mean, either free APs are awarded to anyone that didn't complete the required content, whether 'new' or not....or create new content to be completed (and everyone will want to be allowed to play and earn APs or there will be backlash, I'd imagine). If the Devs are going to use resources to create new content, I'm guessing they want everyone to be eligible.

This is one of the great things about my solution: Minimum, even negative, dev costs . . .Perhaps, those early APs must just be thought of as 'early adopters' rewards. Much like the extra Shared Inventory Slot space no longer available from the purchase of Deluxe or Ultimate Heart of Thorns, or the Celebration Hat, or the pre-purchase Titles.

But they're not. The difference is that some rewards are expressly designed to reward early adopters -- celebration hat, pre-purchase titles, etc. -- or long-standing accounts, with birthday rewards being the best example of that. The inability to provide new players with the LS1 experience is something anet expressly regrets, and the missing ap exacerbates the problem due to the unique rewards offered on the ap reward track. The fact that anet would like to provide access to LS1 the same way they do other seasons is what makes it a problem. Addressing the consequences of the missing ap mitigates the cost of being unable to solve the problem . . .

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

... I don't even know what you are talking about by now.Clearly. You interjected yourself into a discussion about the missing AP from LS1 and how it locked new players out from the highest currently available unique rewards on the AP reward track. But you thought we were discussing daily AP, which we were not. But no blood no foul, I forgive you. Glhf :)

Sorry, I went by what was being discussed in the thread, which from a perspective of someone complaining about max AP, is far more relevant in concern to daily AP, which are also mentioned over and over in this thread.

As far as Living World Season 1 missed AP, I've already pointed to the fact that the actual amount of missed AP is insignificant for current players since it's not more than 3-4k, but yes, I do favor some way of reintroducing that content (more than the AP) with maybe some way to reacquire the AP from then.

Then again, I did point that out back in 2018, even bolded it as first sentence in my comment from then.

EDIT:read through the thread again, the lost AP to season 1 is actually even less than I remembered, being a total of around slightly above 2k. The fact players make such a fuss about missing out on these AP when sitting at 13-16k AP total is confusing to me when the total amount of available AP has reached above 40k. Anyone below 20k AP has enough content to work through to gain AP if desired, unless they are missing ALL the possible daily AP.

I try to look at it from the perspective of a new player. At whatever point they become interested in AP rewards, acquiring the unique rewards will be a very long term goal, which has always been true for any player. But once they realize they are locked out from ever achieving the last available rewards due to the missing ap, that's going to be a hit to their initial interest and excitement. It's not a huge problem, but it's easily remedied and seems worth addressing given all of the energy anet has put into easing the introduction of new players in the past . . .

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@"Gop.8713" said:I try to look at it from the perspective of a new player. At whatever point they become interested in AP rewards, acquiring the unique rewards will be a very long term goal, which has always been true for any player. But once they realize they are locked out from ever achieving the last available rewards due to the missing ap, that's going to be a hit to their initial interest and excitement.

Before the Icebrood Saga was released everyone was excluded from the 2nd backguard. Everyone is still excluded from the entire collection of Pinnacle weapon skins and 4 of the achievement titles. Remember before Heart of Thorns nobody had Hellfire/Radiant chest or leggings, and initially we only had access to the helmet and shoulders, boots were added later. Your argument will have merit once the top player reaches the "end" of the achievement reward track and they have all the rewards available to them. Right now it's not only a new player that has unreachable rewards, but everyone, that's how the achievement rewards work. I'm waiting to see what new reward they will add at 45k AP because there isn't any there, I guess we'll know once the top player reaches that point.

Edit:

In this context we're discussing players who started too late to acquire the AP that would allow them to reach the last currently available unique reward along the ap reward track.

By the time they reach that point, new AP will be added allowing them to earn that reward. Again, your argument will have merit if one or both of the following conditions are met:1) Anet stops adding more achievement points2) Someone reaches the top of the achievement rewardsAt that point a discussion about a "catch up" mechanic for newer players will have merit. Right now it's rather pointless.

Edit 2:The current maximum AP is around 43259 Achievement Points, give or take, meaning the top player in the world has quite a few more achievements to get as they are at 41817 AP.

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@banshee.9328 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:The current maximum AP is around 43259 Achievement Points, give or take, meaning the top player in the world has quite a few more achievements to get as they are at 41817 AP.

Max is less than 42k. Top 3 players have almost no achievements left to do.

Maybe it's some weird ones like black lion collections. The API shows 37606 Achievement Points currently as the maximum but those don't include the unavailable ones (historical / festival) which are almost 6k. But maybe there is a miscalculation somewhere

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I try to look at it from the perspective of a new player. At whatever point they become interested in AP rewards, acquiring the unique rewards will be a very long term goal, which has always been true for any player. But once they realize they are locked out from ever achieving the last available rewards due to the missing ap, that's going to be a hit to their initial interest and excitement.

Before the Icebrood Saga was released everyone was excluded from the 2nd backguard.And now some are not, but some are, by virtue of ap that is missing due to content anet would like to restore if they could. Nothing you said addresses this point . . .

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

... I don't even know what you are talking about by now.Clearly. You interjected yourself into a discussion about the missing AP from LS1 and how it locked new players out from the highest currently available unique rewards on the AP reward track. But you thought we were discussing daily AP, which we were not. But no blood no foul, I forgive you. Glhf :)

Sorry, I went by what was being discussed in the thread, which from a perspective of someone complaining about max AP, is far more relevant in concern to daily AP, which are also mentioned over and over in this thread.

As far as Living World Season 1 missed AP, I've already pointed to the fact that the actual amount of missed AP is insignificant for current players since it's not more than 3-4k, but yes, I do favor some way of reintroducing that content (more than the AP) with maybe some way to reacquire the AP from then.

Then again, I did point that out back in 2018, even bolded it as first sentence in my comment from then.

EDIT:read through the thread again, the lost AP to season 1 is actually even less than I remembered, being a total of around slightly above 2k. The fact players make such a fuss about missing out on these AP when sitting at 13-16k AP total is confusing to me when the total amount of available AP has reached above 40k. Anyone below 20k AP has enough content to work through to gain AP if desired, unless they are missing ALL the possible daily AP.

I try to look at it from the perspective of a new player. At whatever point they become interested in AP rewards, acquiring the unique rewards will be a very long term goal, which has always been true for any player. But once they realize they are locked out from ever achieving the last available rewards due to the missing ap, that's going to be a hit to their initial interest and excitement. It's not a huge problem, but it's easily remedied and seems worth addressing given all of the energy anet has put into easing the introduction of new players in the past . . .

I doubt there is a ton of "new players" who breeze through 4 years of dailies and 8 years of achievement points only to find themselves locked out of those last 2k AP.

Even topic creator, who was so anxious to gather AP, has by their own admission gone from 13k to 16k achievement points in the last 1.5 years. That doesn't even cover the daily achievement points which were possible in that time period. I have gained more AP in that time and I have been daily AP capped for nearly a year with being quite high AP wise (35.6k atm) and inactive for 1/2 a year in that time period.

I have to side with maddoctor.2738 on this one, though as mentioned I am in favor of somehow making Season 1 playable again even if I have a great chunk of those AP, mostly for the story cohesion imo:

  • new players have enough on their plate to work towards IF achievement points are to their interest
  • adding new ways to gain achievements points via new achievements full-fills the exact same function, increasing maximum AP possible, while being of benefit to all players
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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I try to look at it from the perspective of a new player. At whatever point they become interested in AP rewards, acquiring the unique rewards will be a very long term goal, which has always been true for any player. But once they realize they are locked out from ever achieving the last available rewards due to the missing ap, that's going to be a hit to their initial interest and excitement.

Before the Icebrood Saga was released everyone was excluded from the 2nd backguard.And now some are not, but some are, by virtue of ap that is missing due to content anet would like to restore if they could. Nothing you said addresses this point . . .

There is nothing to address there as more AP enter the game, more rewards are becoming available. That happens for everyone right now, once we reach a cap on either the rewards, or the achievements, then the point will become valid.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:Maybe it's some weird ones like black lion collections. The API shows 37606 Achievement Points currently as the maximum but those don't include the unavailable ones (historical / festival) which are almost 6k. But maybe there is a miscalculation somewhereThese numbers may include achievements never introduced to players or doubled ones or WIP ones. I personally lost like 350AP to LS1/festivals and have less than 90AP earnable having right now a little bit more than 41,4k.

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I think one of the frustrating bits is being forced to get the first three pieces of the other set after 9k AP. You need to gather 11k more before you start getting the set you actually want again. A lot of folks seem to get miffed about AP as a grind in that window because the daily cap stops passive AP gain and the goal seems a long way off.

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@Grolorm.4072 said:I think one of the frustrating bits is being forced to get the first three pieces of the other set after 9k AP. You need to gather 11k more before you start getting the set you actually want again. A lot of folks seem to get miffed about AP as a grind in that window because the daily cap stops passive AP gain and the goal seems a long way off.

This i agree with. I want the entire molten set, specifically the chest piece but i have another -7k- AP to go before im able to even select that.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

... I don't even know what you are talking about by now.Clearly. You interjected yourself into a discussion about the missing AP from LS1 and how it locked new players out from the highest currently available unique rewards on the AP reward track. But you thought we were discussing daily AP, which we were not. But no blood no foul, I forgive you. Glhf :)

Sorry, I went by what was being discussed in the thread, which from a perspective of someone complaining about max AP, is far more relevant in concern to daily AP, which are also mentioned over and over in this thread.

As far as Living World Season 1 missed AP, I've already pointed to the fact that the actual amount of missed AP is insignificant for current players since it's not more than 3-4k, but yes, I do favor some way of reintroducing that content (more than the AP) with maybe some way to reacquire the AP from then.

Then again, I did point that out back in 2018, even bolded it as first sentence in my comment from then.

EDIT:read through the thread again, the lost AP to season 1 is actually even less than I remembered, being a total of around slightly above 2k. The fact players make such a fuss about missing out on these AP when sitting at 13-16k AP total is confusing to me when the total amount of available AP has reached above 40k. Anyone below 20k AP has enough content to work through to gain AP if desired, unless they are missing ALL the possible daily AP.

I try to look at it from the perspective of a new player. At whatever point they become interested in AP rewards, acquiring the unique rewards will be a very long term goal, which has always been true for any player. But once they realize they are locked out from ever achieving the last available rewards due to the missing ap, that's going to be a hit to their initial interest and excitement. It's not a huge problem, but it's easily remedied and seems worth addressing given all of the energy anet has put into easing the introduction of new players in the past . . .

I doubt there is a ton of "new players" who breeze through 4 years of dailies and 8 years of achievement points only to find themselves locked out of those last 2k AP.Yes, a very long term goal, which has always been true for any player, as I mentioned. But remember that players new enough to have missed out on at least some LS1 ap could have been playing for over six years at this point. And that's in addition to players who were around earlier but missed out on the content for whatever reason, as well as the players who are just starting out. All of these groups are affected. The vast majority of the player base, if I were to venture a guess . . .@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I try to look at it from the perspective of a new player. At whatever point they become interested in AP rewards, acquiring the unique rewards will be a very long term goal, which has always been true for any player. But once they realize they are locked out from ever achieving the last available rewards due to the missing ap, that's going to be a hit to their initial interest and excitement.

Before the Icebrood Saga was released everyone was excluded from the 2nd backguard.And now some are not, but some are, by virtue of ap that is missing due to content anet would like to restore if they could. Nothing you said addresses this point . . .

There is nothing to address there as more AP enter the game, more rewards are becoming available. That happens for everyone right now, once we reach a cap on either the rewards, or the achievements, then the point will become valid.When you say that there is nothing to address, all it tells me is that you do not understand the problem. Reaching a cap on the rewards would actually solve the problem, not create it. It's what the other poster suggested on the previous page, that anet could solve the problem by not introducing any more unique rewards. It's the same thing as removing the unique rewards, it just takes longer and costs less . . .
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@"Gop.8713" said:When you say that there is nothing to address, all it tells me is that you do not understand the problem. Reaching a cap on the rewards would actually solve the problem, not create it. It's what the other poster suggested on the previous page, that anet could solve the problem by not introducing any more unique rewards. It's the same thing as removing the unique rewards, it just takes longer and costs less . . .

There is no problem to solve here at the moment. Adding more unique rewards to the achievement rewards is something that will come, there are places that have no rewards and something new and unique can fill those spots. Why would they remove the unique rewards from the achievement rewards? They need to add more or revamp current ones instead as the old Hellfire/Radiant sets do show their age compared to more recent skins. As long as there is enough points to get them (and there is or will be since they add new points constantly) there is no issue with having unique rewards.

The only "problem" I see is for players that take their calculator and calculate how many AP are available to them at this point, even though they are far far away from completing them and see that they can't get the final available reward. But that's not a problem, by the time they finish what they have available new AP will have joined the game which makes this entirely pointless. It's like a player with 1k AP complaining that the total they can get 37k and they can't get the 39k reward because they are missing the AP of Season 1, that's a dumb reason to complain, by the time you get that 37k more than enough AP will have joined the game to allow you to reach not only 39k but 50k.

You are creating a problem that doesn't need to exist.

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