Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Achievement Point Discussion


Recommended Posts

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:When you say that there is nothing to address, all it tells me is that you do not understand the problem. Reaching a cap on the rewards would actually solve the problem, not create it. It's what the other poster suggested on the previous page, that anet could solve the problem by not introducing any more unique rewards. It's the same thing as removing the unique rewards, it just takes longer and costs less . . .

There is no problem to solve here at the moment. Adding more unique rewards to the achievement rewards is something that will come, there are places that have no rewards and something new and unique can fill those spots. Why would they remove the unique rewards from the achievement rewards? They need to add more or revamp current ones instead as the old Hellfire/Radiant sets do show their age compared to more recent skins. As long as there is enough points to get them (and there is or will be since they add new points constantly) there is no issue with having unique rewards.

The only "problem" I see is for players that take their calculator and calculate how many AP are available to them at this point, even though they are far far away from completing them and see that they can't get the final available reward. But that's not a problem, by the time they finish what they have available new AP will have joined the game which makes this entirely pointless. It's like a player with 1k AP complaining that the total they can get 37k and they can't get the 39k reward because they are missing the AP of Season 1, that's a dumb reason to complain, by the time you get that 37k more than enough AP will have joined the game to allow you to reach not only 39k but 50k.

You are creating a problem that doesn't need to exist.

So what you're actually saying is that you recognize and understand the problem, but you choose to ignore the problem bc it's not important to you and you feel entitled to tell other ppl what should be important to them. I don't have any problem with that, it's an opinion that I can disagree with. It was your earlier claims that the problem does not exist that I was disputing . . .

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I don't understand. What unique rewards? There haven't been any new rewards added for years.

Are these 'new players' really worrying about the rewards at 60,000 AP? If it took 7 years to get to 42,000 with a big infusion of AP at the beginning, how long until 60,000?

You haven't been keeping up with the discussion :(

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 312
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@"Gop.8713" said:So what you're actually saying is that you recognize and understand the problem, but you choose to ignore the problem bc it's not important to you and you feel entitled to tell other ppl what should be important to them. I don't have any problem with that, it's an opinion that I can disagree with. It was your earlier claims that the problem does not exist that I was disputing . . .

I put the word in quotes, because that's a "problem" that doesn't exist in reality, it's a made up situation that is being presented as a problem that needs a solution, when it's not a problem to begin with. You need a problem before you apply a solution.

It doesn't really matter what I believe and what is important to me, you claimed that this so called "problem" affects the majority of the population:

All of these groups are affected. The vast majority of the player base, if I were to venture a guess . . .When it affects only those that are using a calculator to plan the next few years of their playtime in the game. That's not the vast majority of the player base, not by a long shot. In fact I'd venture a guess that those that even care about achievement points are a tiny minority of the player base. And of that tiny minority, there is a tiny minority that will pre-plan their entire playtime in advance and shockingly find out that some rewards are out of reach.

Even though every single player is at the exact same situation, even those at the top of the leaderboards, because there aren't enough AP to get everything, yet. Should they complain? No. They wait for new AP to become available, that's how achievements work. As I said, this will only become a problem when there are no more AP entering the game, and when the top players reach the actual top. We are a very very long way from either of those.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:So what you're actually saying is that you recognize and understand the problem, but you choose to ignore the problem bc it's not important to you and you feel entitled to tell other ppl what should be important to them. I don't have any problem with that, it's an opinion that I can disagree with. It was your earlier claims that the problem does not exist that I was disputing . . .

I put the word in quotes, because that's a "problem" that doesn't exist in reality, it's a made up situation that is being presented as a problem that needs a solution, when it's not a problem to begin with. You need a problem before you apply a solution.

It doesn't really matter what I believe and what is important to me, you claimed that this so called "problem" affects the majority of the population:

All of these groups are affected. The vast majority of the player base, if I were to venture a guess . . .And so it does . . .When it affects only those that are using a calculator to plan the next few years of their playtime in the game. That's not the vast majority of the player base, not by a long shot. In fact I'd venture a guess that those that even care about achievement points are a tiny minority of the player base. And of that tiny minority, there is a tiny minority that will pre-plan their entire playtime in advance and shockingly find out that some rewards are out of reach.You're confused here. What I said was that everyone who is currently missing the 'lost' ap is affected by the fact that anet is unable to restore LS1 to players who were not around for its original run. I made no comment at all about how many of those affected cared about it or even were aware of it . . .Even though every single player is at the exact same situation, even those at the top of the leaderboards, because there aren't enough AP to get everything, yet. Should they complain? No. They wait for new AP to become available, that's how achievements work. As I said, this will only become a problem when there are no more AP entering the game, and when the top players reach the actual top. We are a very very long way from either of those.This is the same error you were making earlier when you were insisting the problem didn't exist. You're moving backwards . . .

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Gop.8713" said:You're confused here. What I said was that everyone who is currently missing the 'lost' ap is affected by the fact that anet is unable to restore LS1 to players who were not around for its original run.Except most players are not really affected by that, because most players are not hardcore achievement hunters. Even if those achievements were still available, most players would probably never get them anyway. Even OP, loudly complaining about this "injustice", is clearly not trying very hard to earn APsLike maddoctor said, it's mostly a fictional problem.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Gop.8713" said:You're confused here. What I said was that everyone who is currently missing the 'lost' ap is affected by the fact that anet is unable to restore LS1 to players who were not around for its original run.

So? Missing the LS1 AP isn't an actual problem. Missing LS1 for story purposes is, missing the AP that came with it is not.

This is the same error you were making earlier when you were insisting the problem didn't exist.

Because that "problem" still doesn't exist.

The top player has ~42k AP, the max they can get is less than 43k AP, is it a problem that they can't reach 60k to get that title there? No, because more AP will come in the future and allow them to reach that point. It's the same with someone that has 36k and missed the entirety of LS1 (~6k AP total). They WILL reach any achievement reward provided Arenanet keeps adding new achievements, and they do. That player that misses the 6k S1 AP and could get the next reward if they had them available, would indeed have a problem if the game died and no more AP were added. In that case then yes this would become a real problem and not a fictional one, but I think at that point that player would have more important problems with the game than missing some AP rewards.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Gop.8713 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:There is nothing to address there as more AP enter the game, more rewards are becoming available. That happens for everyone right now, once we reach a cap on either the rewards, or the achievements, then the point will become valid.When you say that there is nothing to address, all it tells me is that you do not understand the problem. Reaching a cap on the rewards would actually solve the problem, not create it. It's what the other poster suggested on the previous page, that anet could solve the problem by not introducing any more unique rewards. It's the same thing as removing the unique rewards, it just takes longer and costs less . . .But fixing this "problem" the way you propose creates another, just as potent problem: reward-oriented players have nothing unique to strive for any more, thus lose incentive to even play the game.

Whether the "problem" is unique rewards being tied to huge (for some even unreasonable) time and resource investment or the "problem" is not enough unique rewards available that you can invest your gametime in reaching, neither of these is universally more important than the other, and neither of these should be exclusively followed if the game wants to appeal to a broad playerbase.

This game is great at making rewards available to a broad part of the playerbase. Even many originally time-limited unique rewards from season 1 have been made available again through different sources. Personally I don't see any benefit to the playerbase as a whole by removing the few unique loyalty rewards this game offers (even if I probably won't get access to them for a loooong time, if I even keep playing that long).

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Gop.8713 said:You're confused here. What I said was that everyone who is currently missing the 'lost' ap is affected by the fact that anet is unable to restore LS1 to players who were not around for its original run.Except most players are not really affected by that, because most players are not hardcore achievement hunters. Even if those achievements were still available, most players would probably never get them anyway. Even OP, loudly complaining about this "injustice", is clearly not trying very hard to earn APsLike maddoctor said, it's mostly a fictional problem.

You've proceeded from a false assumption. A player need not be a 'hardcore achievement hunter' to receive ap . . .@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Gop.8713 said:You're confused here. What I said was that everyone who is currently missing the 'lost' ap is affected by the fact that anet is unable to restore LS1 to players who were not around for its original run.

So? Missing the LS1 AP isn't an actual problem. Missing LS1 for story purposes is, missing the AP that came with it is not.Yes, we've established that you feel entitled to tell others what should be important to them. I disagree with you, but it's an opinion question so no harm done. But whether the ap is missing, whether that loss is unintended, and whether the loss affects players are not opinion questions . . .

This is the same error you were making earlier when you were insisting the problem didn't exist.

Because that "problem" still doesn't exist.Again, I must remind you that something does not cease to exist simply bc it is unimportant to you as an individual. You've already acknowledged as much. I very much believe if you could start saying 'this isn't important to me' instead of 'this doesn't exist' it would help you tremendously in understanding why your position does not follow from the facts . . .The top player has ~42k AP, the max they can get is less than 43k AP, is it a problem that they can't reach 60k to get that title there?Is there ap that was previously available and is not available to that player currently due to lost content that the developer of the game would prefer to make available if possible? If not, what does this have to do with the issue at hand . . ?No, because more AP will come in the future and allow them to reach that point.And when it does, any missing ap will still be missing. They will still not be as far along as they would be otherwise . . .It's the same with someone that has 36k and missed the entirety of LS1 (~6k AP total). They WILL reach any achievement reward provided Arenanet keeps adding new achievements, and they do.But they will never recover the lost ap . . .That player that misses the 6k S1 AP and could get the next reward if they had them available, would indeed have a problem if the game died and no more AP were added. In that case then yes this would become a real problem and not a fictional one, but I think at that point that player would have more important problems with the game than missing some AP rewards.While I agree that it would be nice if our personal preferences could define reality in that way, they do not . . .@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:There is nothing to address there as more AP enter the game, more rewards are becoming available. That happens for everyone right now, once we reach a cap on either the rewards, or the achievements, then the point will become valid.When you say that there is nothing to address, all it tells me is that you do not understand the problem. Reaching a cap on the rewards would actually solve the problem, not create it. It's what the other poster suggested on the previous page, that anet could solve the problem by not introducing any more unique rewards. It's the same thing as removing the unique rewards, it just takes longer and costs less . . .But fixing this "problem" the way you propose creates another, just as potent problem: reward-oriented players have nothing unique to strive for any more, thus lose incentive to even play the game.This is untrue. Removing unique rewards from the ap reward track does not remove unique rewards from the game. It's also not the only possible solution. I think it's the best solution bc of the saved dev time which could, ofc, be spent instead on accessible unique rewards, if desired . . .Whether the "problem" is unique rewards being tied to huge (for some even unreasonable) time and resource investment or the "problem" is not enough unique rewards available that you can invest your gametime in reaching, neither of these is universally more important than the other, and neither of these should be exclusively followed if the game wants to appeal to a broad playerbase.What if the problem is that there is ap missing from the game due to lost content the developer would like to restore if they could do so . . ?This game is great at making rewards available to a broad part of the playerbase. Even many originally time-limited unique rewards from season 1 have been made available again through different sources.Which is great evidence that anet would like to make the lost LS1 content as accessible as they can. Thank you . . .Personally I don't see any benefit to the playerbase as a whole by removing the few unique loyalty rewards this game offers (even if I probably won't get access to them for a loooong time, if I even keep playing that long).Happily, removing rewards from the game entirely would not be required, while removing loyalty rewards isn't even being discussed at all . . .
Link to post
Share on other sites

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:There is nothing to address there as more AP enter the game, more rewards are becoming available. That happens for everyone right now, once we reach a cap on either the rewards, or the achievements, then the point will become valid.When you say that there is nothing to address, all it tells me is that you do not understand the problem. Reaching a cap on the rewards would actually solve the problem, not create it. It's what the other poster suggested on the previous page, that anet could solve the problem by not introducing any more unique rewards. It's the same thing as removing the unique rewards, it just takes longer and costs less . . .But fixing this "problem" the way you propose creates another, just as potent problem: reward-oriented players have nothing unique to strive for any more, thus lose incentive to even play the game.This is untrue. Removing unique rewards from the ap reward track does not remove unique rewards from the game. It's also not the only possible solution. I think it's the best solution bc of the saved dev time which could, ofc, be spent instead on accessible unique rewards, if desired . . .

That's like saying: removing unique rewards from any part of the game would have no affect on that content.

Now one can argue IF there should be unique rewards behind AP, but please be honest in your argument. If you wan to argue that unique rewards should not be behind AP, fine. Don't pretend this would cause no issues though with parts of the player base. That's very dishonest.

@Gop.8713 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:Whether the "problem" is unique rewards being tied to huge (for some even unreasonable) time and resource investment or the "problem" is not enough unique rewards available that you can invest your gametime in reaching, neither of these is universally more important than the other, and neither of these should be exclusively followed if the game wants to appeal to a broad playerbase.What if the problem is that there is ap missing from the game due to lost content the developer would like to restore if they could do so . . ?

I am missing some Season 1 AP with a very high AP total, as such I would be part of your potential target group of players who would need those missing AP. Yet I care much more about future achievements then having to tread back to getting the Season 1 AP I missed. It's a nonissue for anyone who is not a hardcore achievement hunter, and any one new to the game will have to work years to even get close.

You keep willfully omitting the aspect that to reintroduce this content, and these achievements, future content would have to suffer by mere reason that the resources for developing either are limited.

So yes, between reintroducing missing old content and achievements, and introducing new content with new achievements, the later is the wiser decision from a resource allocation perspective and benefits far more players.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Gop.8713" said:Is there ap that was previously available and is not available to that player currently due to lost content that the developer of the game would prefer to make available if possible?And when it does, any missing ap will still be missing. They will still not be as far along as they would be otherwise . . .

So? That's irrelevant, missing AP in no way prevent a player from earning any of the achievement rewards as long as new achievements are added to the game. When they stop you can argue all you want.

But they will never recover the lost ap . . .

I believe that your issue isn't with the rewards, since a player that starts now WILL get them, but rather your issue is with the number associated with achievement points that will never be as high as the number that the top player has (provided they keep playing the game). You might be a competitive hardcore achievement hunter and feel entitled to being at the top of the boards, and all the AP you are missing make you feel inferior. In that case I'm really sorry for you and since this "problem" doesn't apply to any kind of significant portion of the player base, while also being an "unhealthy" attitude to begin with, I still consider this a no-problem.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:You're confused here. What I said was that everyone who is currently missing the 'lost' ap is affected by the fact that anet is unable to restore LS1 to players who were not around for its original run.Except most players are not really affected by that, because most players are not hardcore achievement hunters. Even if those achievements were still available, most players would probably never get them anyway. Even OP, loudly complaining about this "injustice", is clearly not trying very hard to earn APsLike maddoctor said, it's mostly a fictional problem.

You've proceeded from a false assumption. A player need not be a 'hardcore achievement hunter' to receive ap . . .True, but when someone is at below 20k AP range, them worrying they can't reach 40k due to missing LS1 APs is disingenious at best, as it is clear it's not what is preventing them from reaching higher AP tiers. And as for "most players" being affected - remember, that "most players" are well below 10k AP, and will never reach any higher AP values. Again,
not
due to not having access to LS1.

Lacking the access to LS1 story? Yeah, that is a problem that can possibly impact a majority of the playerbase. Lost AP? Not so much.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't recall the Devs ever stating that they wished to re-instate Season One Achievement Points. Only that they would like to make Season One content available in some way. Some has returned as Fractals, some has returned as Festivals.

If they were to ever 'bring back' any Season One content, it would essentially be new content, with new APs for everyone to earn. Just like with the returned Festivals.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:There is nothing to address there as more AP enter the game, more rewards are becoming available. That happens for everyone right now, once we reach a cap on either the rewards, or the achievements, then the point will become valid.When you say that there is nothing to address, all it tells me is that you do not understand the problem. Reaching a cap on the rewards would actually solve the problem, not create it. It's what the other poster suggested on the previous page, that anet could solve the problem by not introducing any more unique rewards. It's the same thing as removing the unique rewards, it just takes longer and costs less . . .But fixing this "problem" the way you propose creates another, just as potent problem: reward-oriented players have nothing unique to strive for any more, thus lose incentive to even play the game.This is untrue. Removing unique rewards from the ap reward track does not remove unique rewards from the game. It's also not the only possible solution. I think it's the best solution bc of the saved dev time which could, ofc, be spent instead on accessible unique rewards, if desired . . .

That's like saying: removing unique rewards from any part of the game would have no affect on that content.

Now one can argue IF there should be unique rewards behind AP, but please be honest in your argument. If you wan to argue that unique rewards should not be behind AP, fine. Don't pretend this would cause no issues though with parts of the player base. That's very dishonest.

Except I didn't say that. We weren't even discussing it. The other poster suggested that removing the unique rewards would leave players with nothing to strive for, so I pointed out that removing the unique rewards from the ap track would not mean removing unique rewards from the game. Plenty left to strive for. Nothing dishonest there, it's just the best idea I've been able to come up with. I'm sure there are lots of other solutions available and perhaps someone will one day share one that I like better, but as yet I haven't heard it. For me as a player personally, I'm pretty neutral towards the unique rewards and ap as a reward generally. I use ap as more of a guide to content I haven't experienced yet. If I had a strong personal investment in this I wouldn't trust my own motives . . .

@Gop.8713 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:Whether the "problem" is unique rewards being tied to huge (for some even unreasonable) time and resource investment or the "problem" is not enough unique rewards available that you can invest your gametime in reaching, neither of these is universally more important than the other, and neither of these should be exclusively followed if the game wants to appeal to a broad playerbase.What if the problem is that there is ap missing from the game due to lost content the developer would like to restore if they could do so . . ?

I am missing some Season 1 AP with a very high AP total, as such I would be part of your potential target group of players who would need those missing AP. Yet I care much more about future achievements then having to tread back to getting the Season 1 AP I missed. It's a nonissue for anyone who is not a hardcore achievement hunter, and any one new to the game will have to work years to even get close.

You keep willfully omitting the aspect that to reintroduce this content, and these achievements, future content would have to suffer by mere reason that the resources for developing either are limited.

So yes, between reintroducing missing old content and achievements, and introducing new content with new achievements, the later is the wiser decision from a resource allocation perspective and benefits far more players.Except, again, I never said I wanted anet to spend the resources to reintroduce the old content. My point is that removing the unique rewards from the track eliminates part of the cost of not being able to restore the content, and this solution appeals to me precisely bc it has no dev cost . . .@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Gop.8713 said:Is there ap that was previously available and is not available to that player currently due to lost content that the developer of the game would prefer to make available if possible?And when it does, any missing ap will still be missing. They will still not be as far along as they would be otherwise . . .

So? That's irrelevant, missing AP in no way prevent a player from earning any of the achievement rewards as long as new achievements are added to the game. When they stop you can argue all you want.Saying this over and over again doesn't make it any less false, unfortunately . . .

But they will never recover the lost ap . . .

I believe that your issue isn't with the rewards, since a player that starts now WILL get them, but rather your issue is with the number associated with achievement points that will never be as high as the number that the top player has (provided they keep playing the game). You might be a competitive hardcore achievement hunter and feel entitled to being at the top of the boards, and all the AP you are missing make you feel inferior. In that case I'm really sorry for you and since this "problem" doesn't apply to any kind of significant portion of the player base, while also being an "unhealthy" attitude to begin with, I still consider this a no-problem.This is a bizarre conclusion to draw, as my solution would not affect anyone's ap total. You may want to stop and consider how you came to this conclusion that did not follow from the facts. What kinds of assumptions did you make? Have you made similar assumptions elsewhere? Could those assumptions be clouding other parts of your reasoning . . ?@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:You're confused here. What I said was that everyone who is currently missing the 'lost' ap is affected by the fact that anet is unable to restore LS1 to players who were not around for its original run.Except most players are not really affected by that, because most players are not hardcore achievement hunters. Even if those achievements were still available, most players would probably never get them anyway. Even OP, loudly complaining about this "injustice", is clearly not trying very hard to earn APsLike maddoctor said, it's mostly a fictional problem.

You've proceeded from a false assumption. A player need not be a 'hardcore achievement hunter' to receive ap . . .True, but when someone is at below 20k AP range, them worrying they can't reach 40k due to missing LS1 APs is disingenious at best, as it is clear it's not what is preventing them from reaching higher AP tiers. And as for "most players" being affected - remember, that "most players" are well below 10k AP, and will never reach any higher AP values. Again,
not
due to not having access to LS1.

Lacking the access to LS1
story
? Yeah, that is a problem that can possibly impact a majority of the playerbase. Lost AP? Not so much.

Perhaps I didn't make my point clearly. I'm talking about two separate things here. First, I was describing, as an anecdote, the sort of player that makes me think this is a problem worth solving, especially given the low cost of the solution. That's the player who gets excited about ap, realizes a chunk of it will never be available to them and so loses at least some of that initial interest. It doesn't matter how many of those players there are, bc it's just a personal motivation. Something an individual wants or doesn't want is never a very good reason to make a change to the game. When I made that reply I was merely explaining to that poster why I personally am interested in this, since they had been confused and thought I was talking about something else . . .

The second thing, which is the thing that matters, is that this problem does, in fact, affect any player that is missing LS1 ap. If LS1 was available as the subsequent seasons are, I'm guessing -- and acknowledging that it is a guess -- that most players who have not now, in reality, played any LS1 would have instead played at least some of that content, and garnered ap from their adventures. Therefore, those players are affected by the missing ap. Their ap total is not relevant to that fact. In order to argue that the missing LS1 ap does not affect them, you would also have to argue that removing all of the LS2 ap would not affect them. Nor would removing all daily ap, or any (all?) other segments. It does not follow . . .

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Gop.8713 said:Saying this over and over again doesn't make it any less false, unfortunately . . .

How is it false? Any player starting now will have access to every achievement reward in the game, current and future one, provided new achievements are added to the game and the player keeps on playing the game. I'm not sure how is this even a point of contention. Saying that it's false, doesn't make it false unfortunately.

This is a bizarre conclusion to draw, as my solution would not affect anyone's ap total. You may want to stop and consider how you came to this conclusion that did not follow from the facts. What kinds of assumptions did you make? Have you made similar assumptions elsewhere? Could those assumptions be clouding other parts of your reasoning . . ?

My conclusion is based on the fact that as explained above, every player, both current and future one, has access to the same rewards. But since you cannot understand something as basic as that, you are drawing the wrong conclusions. Also, your obsession with the number of AP you have/can earn is clouding your reasoning, it's just a simple number, you will get all the rewards associated with achievement points, regardless if you have or not have access to LS1 points.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Gop.8713" said:Perhaps I didn't make my point clearly. I'm talking about two separate things here. First, I was describing, as an anecdote, the sort of player that makes me think this is a problem worth solving, especially given the low cost of the solution. That's the player who gets excited about ap, realizes a chunk of it will never be available to them and so loses at least some of that initial interest. It doesn't matter how many of those players there are, bc it's just a personal motivation. Something an individual wants or doesn't want is never a very good reason to make a change to the game. When I made that reply I was merely explaining to that poster why I personally am interested in this, since they had been confused and thought I was talking about something else . . .And, so, instead, you proposed a "solution" that will cause another hypothetical sort of player (if we're now describing anecdotes to each other), that gets excited about APs, to realize that there are no unique rewards beyond a certain point and lose at least some of that initial interest.Why are you concerned for the first player, but not for the second? Why do you not consider the possibility, that your "solution" can possibly demotivate the first player as well?

One has to wonder if it's not the result of thinking along the way "if i can't get those rewards now, noone else should get them either".

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:You do the thing, you progress along the track, which provides rewards. It is a reward track. It's absurd to argue otherwise . . .

There is no "extra AP gain buff", like with reward tracks. It's not on the reward track entry on the wiki. It's infinite and not finite, it's not even complete. You can't see any of the rewards unless you data-mine it. It's not a reward track and it's absurd to argue otherwise.

You're wrong and you should change your mind . . .

Ok, I saw this and had to laugh. It’s too much like Detha in Ascalonian Catacombs “ Your plan is just stupid and won't work.”

Only on Internet forums.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Gop.8713 said:Saying this over and over again doesn't make it any less false, unfortunately . . .

How is it false? Any player starting now will have access to every achievement reward in the game, current and future one, provided new achievements are added to the game and the player keeps on playing the game. I'm not sure how is this even a point of contention. Saying that it's false, doesn't make it false unfortunately.Okay, we'll give it another go. Player has X ap. They would have more, but some has become unavailable due to a technical limitation on certain content. As Player gains ap, the amount that they are missing does not change. Therefore, until anet removes unique rewards from the track, there will always be rewards that Player is locked out of due to this missing content. The specific reward(s) Player is locked out of will change, but Player's situation will not . . .

This is a bizarre conclusion to draw, as my solution would not affect anyone's ap total. You may want to stop and consider how you came to this conclusion that did not follow from the facts. What kinds of assumptions did you make? Have you made similar assumptions elsewhere? Could those assumptions be clouding other parts of your reasoning . . ?

My conclusion is based on the fact that as explained above, every player, both current and future one, has access to the same rewards. But since you cannot understand something as basic as that, you are drawing the wrong conclusions. Also, your obsession with the number of AP you have/can earn is clouding your reasoning, it's just a simple number, you will get all the rewards associated with achievement points, regardless if you have or not have access to LS1 points.So instead of considering why you made the initial error, you've chosen to compound it by ascribing to me still another motivation I don't actually possess. This is not the path to understanding . . .@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Gop.8713 said:Perhaps I didn't make my point clearly. I'm talking about two separate things here. First, I was describing, as an anecdote, the sort of player that makes me think this is a problem worth solving, especially given the low cost of the solution. That's the player who gets excited about ap, realizes a chunk of it will never be available to them and so loses at least some of that initial interest. It doesn't matter how many of those players there are, bc it's just a personal motivation. Something an individual wants or doesn't want is never a very good reason to make a change to the game. When I made that reply I was merely explaining to that poster why I personally am interested in this, since they had been confused and thought I was talking about something else . . .And, so, instead, you proposed a "solution" that will cause another hypothetical sort of player (if we're now describing anecdotes to each other), that gets excited about APs, to realize that there are no unique rewards beyond a certain point and lose at least some of that initial interest.Why are you concerned for the first player, but not for the second? Why do you not consider the possibility, that your "solution" can possibly demotivate the first player as well?

One has to wonder if it's not the result of thinking along the way "if i can't get those rewards now, noone else should get them either".

Unfortunate then that you chose to stop reading after the first half of the post . . .

But to do you the courtesy of considering your perspective while you refuse to consider mine I am happy to consider the player you describe. I have pointed out multiple times that my solution is only the best I have seen. If you have a better solution which satisfies both of the players you describe, I am eager to hear it. If your answer is that you don't care about the first player -- or any of the others described in the second half of my reply that you chose to ignore -- they why is the consideration of the second player significant . . ?

@Moira Shalaar.5620 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:You do the thing, you progress along the track, which provides rewards. It is a reward track. It's absurd to argue otherwise . . .

There is no "extra AP gain buff", like with reward tracks. It's not on the reward track entry on the wiki. It's infinite and not finite, it's not even complete. You can't see any of the rewards unless you data-mine it. It's not a reward track and it's absurd to argue otherwise.

You're wrong and you should change your mind . . .

Ok, I saw this and had to laugh. It’s too much like Detha in Ascalonian Catacombs “ Your plan is just stupid and won't work.”

Only on Internet forums.

Thanks :)

I was actually channeling an episode of This American Life, I think. I know where I got it from but I can't remember for certain where I heard the thing I got it from :p

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Gop.8713 said:Therefore, until anet removes unique rewards from the track, there will always be rewards that Player is locked out of due to this missing content.

That's false. As new AP is constantly added to the game a player will never be locked out of rewards due to the missing content. The missing content will play a role in a player's ability to acquire rewards when the game stops giving achievement points. If you want to be more specific, there is a reward at 60k AP, a title. If the game stops at 60k AP then players missing the Season 1 will miss that reward. If the game stops at 65800 AP (5800 is the amount of missing Season 1 + Festival AP) then no player ever will miss any kind of reward.

So instead of considering why you made the initial error, you've chosen to compound it by ascribing to me still another motivation I don't actually possess. This is not the path to understanding . . .

I made no error. As explained for the billionth time above, no player is locked out of rewards due to missing content. You are making this false assumption and base your entire argument on it, that's doesn't make it true though, it's still factually false.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Gop.8713 said:Therefore, until anet removes unique rewards from the track, there will always be rewards that Player is locked out of due to this missing content.

That's false. As new AP is constantly added to the game a player will never be locked out of rewards due to the missing content. The missing content will play a role in a player's ability to acquire rewards when the game stops giving achievement points. If you want to be more specific, there is a reward at 60k AP, a title. If the game stops at 60k AP then players missing the Season 1 will miss that reward. If the game stops at 65800 AP (5800 is the amount of missing Season 1 + Festival AP) then no player ever will miss any kind of reward.This would only be true if anet chooses to remove unique rewards from the track at that point. Your selective quoting speaks volumes here . . .

So instead of considering why you made the initial error, you've chosen to compound it by ascribing to me still another motivation I don't actually possess. This is not the path to understanding . . .

I made no error. As explained for the billionth time above, no player is locked out of rewards due to missing content. You are making this false assumption and base your entire argument on it, that's doesn't make it true though, it's still factually false.You've made several, so I can understand why it might be difficult to keep them straight. When I referred to your error in attributing to me a motivation I don't actually possess compounding an earlier error, I was referring to the error in that chain of conversation, specifically when you somehow gathered that my solution of removing unique rewards from the reward track would somehow change ppl's ap . . .

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Gop.8713" said:This would only be true if anet chooses to remove unique rewards from the track at that point. Your selective quoting speaks volumes here . . .

When the game dies and stops adding any more AP we can see the total achievable amount by any player. If the number is higher than the amount of achievements required to earn the last reward + the missing AP, then there is no reason to remove the unique rewards from the game as everyone will have access to every reward. The only situation where a player will be actually locked out of some reward entirely will be if the game dies before we get 65800 AP (60k for the last reward + the missing AP) at that point, fresh players will be missing the final and pre-final unique rewards. The ones at 60k and 55k.

The game launched with a little less than 7k AP, there are 15k from dailies, meaning a total of 22k. The current maximum is 42k minus that 22k we get that 20k AP were added to the game in 7 years. That's about 2.8k AP per year added to the game. With a maximum at 42k including the dailies, we need approximately 6.4 more years of Guild Wars 2 to reach the 60k reward. We'll see if the game is dead at that point or not, but I think it's a bit premature to talk about the end of achievement points at this point.

When I referred to your error in attributing to me a motivation I don't actually possess compounding an earlier error, I was referring to the error in that chain of conversation, specifically when you somehow gathered that my solution of removing unique rewards from the reward track would somehow change ppl's ap . . .

I never said that removing unique rewards would change ppl's AP that's something you just came up with. I said that since everyone can get all the rewards in the game, the only reason to complain about the missing AP from Season 1 is because someone is obsessed with the number of AP.

Plus I was responding to this part:

But they will never recover the lost ap . . .Which has nothing to do with the removal of unique rewards in the first place.

Now you can reread what you didn't understand:

I believe that your issue isn't with the rewards, since a player that starts now WILL get them, but rather your issue is with the number associated with achievement points that will never be as high as the number that the top player has (provided they keep playing the game). You might be a competitive hardcore achievement hunter and feel entitled to being at the top of the boards, and all the AP you are missing make you feel inferior. In that case I'm really sorry for you and since this "problem" doesn't apply to any kind of significant portion of the player base, while also being an "unhealthy" attitude to begin with, I still consider this a no-problem.

And clearly see that it's an answer to your complaint about never recovering lost AP, and not about your suggestion about the removal of unique rewards. Which was explained why it's not needed multiple times already.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:This would only be true if anet chooses to remove unique rewards from the track at that point. Your selective quoting speaks volumes here . . .

When the game dies and stops adding any more AP we can see the total achievable amount by any player. If the number is higher than the amount of achievements required to earn the last reward + the missing AP, then there is no reason to remove the unique rewards from the game as everyone will have access to every reward. The only situation where a player will be actually locked out of some reward entirely will be if the game dies before we get 65800 AP (60k for the last reward + the missing AP) at that point, fresh players will be missing the final and pre-final unique rewards. The ones at 60k and 55k.

The game launched with a little less than 7k AP, there are 15k from dailies, meaning a total of 22k. The current maximum is 42k minus that 22k we get that 20k AP were added to the game in 7 years. That's about 2.8k AP per year added to the game. With a maximum at 42k including the dailies, we need approximately 6.4 more years of Guild Wars 2 to reach the 60k reward. We'll see if the game is dead at that point or not, but I think it's a bit premature to talk about the end of achievement points at this point.Right! What you are saying is that once the amount of ap available (to everyone) exceeds the amount required for all of the unique rewards on the ap track, the problem will be solved. It's my solution exactly. If they never remove unique rewards, the problem will never be solved. So now the question to be asked is when should unique rewards be removed? I'd probably vote for removing all unique rewards that have not currently been unlocked by any player. Your vote would seem to be to remove all unique rewards that have not yet been datamined/created. My question is, why wait . . ?

When I referred to your error in attributing to me a motivation I don't actually possess compounding an earlier error, I was referring to the error in that chain of conversation, specifically when you somehow gathered that my solution of removing unique rewards from the reward track would somehow change ppl's ap . . .

I never said that removing unique rewards would change ppl's AP that's something you just came up with.So you're saying your error was in assuming my reference to 'lost ap' had to do with the actual ap rather than the rewards they unlocked. I am still not sure how you made that error given that my solution only deals with the rewards and not the ap, but I am pleased that you gave me this opportunity to correct your misunderstanding . . .I said that since everyone can get all the rewards in the game, the only reason to complain about the missing AP from Season 1 is because someone is obsessed with the number of AP.They can't tho . . .Plus I was responding to this part:But they will never recover the lost ap . . .Which has nothing to do with the removal of unique rewards in the first place.My entire solution deals only with the unique rewards. The lost ap explains the why of so many players being forever behind in unlocking their unique rewards. I had explained this several times prior to this, and have several times since. I was hoping here that a concise explanation might get through where a detailed explanation did not. Apparently that hope was in vain, but again I appreciate your granting me the opportunity to correct your misunderstanding . . .Now you can reread what you didn't understand:I believe that your issue isn't with the rewards, since a player that starts now WILL get them, but rather your issue is with the number associated with achievement points that will never be as high as the number that the top player has (provided they keep playing the game). You might be a competitive hardcore achievement hunter and feel entitled to being at the top of the boards, and all the AP you are missing make you feel inferior. In that case I'm really sorry for you and since this "problem" doesn't apply to any kind of significant portion of the player base, while also being an "unhealthy" attitude to begin with, I still consider this a no-problem.

And clearly see that it's an answer to your complaint about never recovering lost AP, and not about your suggestion about the removal of unique rewards. Which was explained why it's not needed multiple times already.And hopefully now it is clear to you how your initial error was compounded by your second. Attributing motivations to someone else is never a good idea. If you want to know, ask, but there's really no advantage in knowing. An idea is sound or not regardless of the motive behind putting it forth . . .

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Gop.8713 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:I said that since everyone can get all the rewards in the game, the only reason to complain about the missing AP from Season 1 is because someone is obsessed with the number of AP.They can't tho . . .

They can. They main limiting factor here is the addition of new achievements and the time frame in which total available AP grows. Not some past AP which make up less than 5% of available AP.

One might even argue that having to make old content work and adding ways to gain past achievements is more time consuming than simply adding new content with new achievements. Which in turn directly means that this approach limits players ability to gain AP rewards.

As mentioned, the main and only reason to add some way to experience Living World Season 1 is story cohesion. Even then, it is highly unlikely that past achievements will be made available again, just as how yearly achievements are not added in retroactively.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:I said that since everyone can get all the rewards in the game, the only reason to complain about the missing AP from Season 1 is because someone is obsessed with the number of AP.They can't tho . . .

They can. They main limiting factor here is the addition of new achievements and the time frame in which total available AP grows. Not some past AP which make up less than 5% of available AP.

One might even argue that having to make old content work and adding ways to gain past achievements is more time consuming than simply adding new content with new achievements. Which in turn directly means that this approach limits players ability to gain AP rewards.

As mentioned, the main and only reason to add some way to experience Living World Season 1 is story cohesion. Even then, it is highly unlikely that past achievements will be made available again, just as how yearly achievements are not added in retroactively.

They can't. If you're relying on new cheeves the best you can argue is that 'they one day may'. That's very different from 'can' . . .

The rest of your reply makes me feel like you didn't read my last reply to you, which I'm sure isn't really true . . .

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:I said that since everyone can get all the rewards in the game, the only reason to complain about the missing AP from Season 1 is because someone is obsessed with the number of AP.They can't tho . . .

They can. They main limiting factor here is the addition of new achievements and the time frame in which total available AP grows. Not some past AP which make up less than 5% of available AP.

One might even argue that having to make old content work and adding ways to gain past achievements is more time consuming than simply adding new content with new achievements. Which in turn directly means that this approach limits players ability to gain AP rewards.

As mentioned, the main and only reason to add some way to experience Living World Season 1 is story cohesion. Even then, it is highly unlikely that past achievements will be made available again, just as how yearly achievements are not added in retroactively.

They can't. If you're relying on new cheeves the best you can argue is that 'they one day may'. That's very different from 'can' . . .

The rest of your reply makes me feel like you didn't read my last reply to you, which I'm sure isn't really true . . .

Oh it is, you've been arguing in circles for ages by now not accepting other people's arguments. I just occasionally pop in by now not really caring.

Here's what's going to happen on the issue: nothing, because there is no issue to address from the developers stand point.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:I said that since everyone can get all the rewards in the game, the only reason to complain about the missing AP from Season 1 is because someone is obsessed with the number of AP.They can't tho . . .

They can. They main limiting factor here is the addition of new achievements and the time frame in which total available AP grows. Not some past AP which make up less than 5% of available AP.

One might even argue that having to make old content work and adding ways to gain past achievements is more time consuming than simply adding new content with new achievements. Which in turn directly means that this approach limits players ability to gain AP rewards.

As mentioned, the main and only reason to add some way to experience Living World Season 1 is story cohesion. Even then, it is highly unlikely that past achievements will be made available again, just as how yearly achievements are not added in retroactively.

They can't. If you're relying on new cheeves the best you can argue is that 'they one day may'. That's very different from 'can' . . .

The rest of your reply makes me feel like you didn't read my last reply to you, which I'm sure isn't really true . . .

Oh it is, you've been arguing in circles for ages by now not accepting other people's arguments. I just occasionally pop in by now not really caring.

Well what's the point in that? You can find the answer to the concerns you list here in my last reply to you, if you are so inclined . . .

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...