Mesmer is the better condi thief.

[Xtinct.7031]

Seems to do everything better than a condition thief can and some.

[DemonSeed.3528]

Mesmer in general has a high output on being able to apply damaging condi together with covering condi. Fun fact, even when I play some power builds on mes I sometimes get people messaging me that I'm condi blah blah blah but I think they aren't looking at combat log properly, they just see some condi application and assume my build is full condi lol. I haven't used full condi on thief in a while but I've used hybrid quite a bit. What's your setup?

[Xtinct.7031]

I play varieties of full condi and hybrid setups. However, it just seems mesmers has better "burst", better reapplications that doesn't rely on projectiles, better deception via clones, better boon access, and REFLECTION!

[Jack Redline.5379]

@"Xtinct.7031" said:I play varieties of full condi and hybrid setups. However, it just seems mesmers has better "burst"

It is not about tge burst tho. It is about the type of condition. They give mainly tornment and confusion so basically as a class that literally HAS TO run around and smap to skills to survive you bassically kill urself. Tornment deals more dmg on movement confusion on skill use. It doesnt even need to be full condi. The fact you spin around trying to find him among the clones does its job. So what you need is a lot of condi cleanse and te those when ypu are fullu stacked on con and tor.He will need to spawn more clones and you may be able to figure out which is him. Also Traps are helpful since in all that visual mess he does with blowing clones he might not notice where you put it. Lure clones near steal to him and he will swap with one of his clones and i bet you he will step on some of them ;) which in case of a good condi from teef will scar him pretty bad :)

[Xtinct.7031]

i really dont follow what your trying to say here. Are you comparing raw dmg output? If so, just look at thief poison vs mesmer torment. If you compare the numbers, mesmers will outdps any thieves best poison burst.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Fluid class? Mesmer means mesmer and thief means theif

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

I tried a condi DE before and thanks to the increased access to stealth (vs mirage), I took out a few condi Mirages. Yeah they have clones and sustain, however they can't condi up what they cant see. Helps I had more cleanses then that did (as condi mirages dont have much)

[roamzero.9486]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I tried a condi DE before and thanks to the increased access to stealth (vs mirage), I took out a few condi Mirages. Yeah they have clones and sustain, however they can't condi up what they cant see. Helps I had more cleanses then that did (as condi mirages dont have much)

The days of condi-anything (other than mesmer maybe) are pretty much numbered when people realize how OP some of the anti-condi stuff added in the recent patch is (new cleansing sigil = 3 condis cleared on swap, and antitoxin runes can double condi removal on a lot of classes to the point that they might be worth taking on a power build even though they are condi stat)

[Xtinct.7031]

It is defiantly making dps output alot harder. Especially the new cleansing sigil, hence why the mats jumped in price.

[babazhook.6805]

P/d Condition was still fine prior to these latest changes specifically traited in DE. With the changes there a whole lot more cleanses and some testing in order. The major weakness of the p/d condition I had was in fact conditions applied against and winning that race.

As to best Poison burst it depends on traits and game mode. You can still get huge poison bursts with venom share and poison with potent traited . These will be higher then a mesmer and confusion BUT are less likely to be achieved.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

The conditions available to Mesmer is of higher quality than the Thief's. Thief's highest quality condition is Poison, while Mesmer have Confusion. Confusion is a really good condition since it punishes the target for trying to cleanse it. Also the faster the attacker attacks, the higher the damage. This is where the Mesmer had an edge since triggering this gives the Mesmer a huge damage boost. Poison is good at suppressing healing but that doesn't count towards condition damage.

This is why even if I build my Thief as condition, I still consider it as hybrid. To be a real condition build, the build needs to have easy access to the high quality conditions like confusion and burning.

Unless Thief has access to Torch skills for burning or skills with confusion through Shadow Magic, Thief will always be a hybrid.

[reddie.5861]

@roamzero.9486 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I tried a condi DE before and thanks to the increased access to stealth (vs mirage), I took out a few condi Mirages. Yeah they have clones and sustain, however they can't condi up what they cant see. Helps I had more cleanses then that did (as condi mirages dont have much)

The days of condi-anything (other than mesmer maybe) are pretty much numbered when people realize how OP some of the anti-condi stuff added in the recent patch is (new cleansing sigil = 3 condis cleared on swap, and antitoxin runes can double condi removal on a lot of classes to the point that they might be worth taking on a power build even though they are condi stat)

yes and no for weapon swap u either need put in 2 proper weapons or u basically screw ur self for few seconds unless u starting fight on ur shortbow (as most thiefs use)for me it could work as im staff / d/p build but i have (want) force on staff / energy and bloodlust / energy on d/p.i could lose the energy but i doubt the cleanse is gonna help me much more then energy sigil.

if we pop the trait in daredevil for every evade cleanse 1 condi with 1second reuse its i guess gonna cleanse more then sigil.tho then again u shoot your self in the foot by losing out on better stuff.

sure for 1v1 u can build ur self towards something but for general roaming and crap ull always find ur self in a weakness vs people where as mesmer might out class thief in most possible ways i guess thats the OP's problem.