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Raiding is on the verge of destroying huge segments of the GW2 community, if it hasn't already


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I wish I could post this anonymously....

I write this as a semi-casual, semi-serious player. I've played GW2 off-and-on since launch. I've also raided regularly, in other games, at "competent" levels, but never at top-tier / world-first / competitive levels....In those times, I loved raiding....I loved figuring out that last 1% of mechanics, or positioning. or build....that let us finally beat that "impossible" boss.....and I never gave 2 shits about the gear! Gear was only a means to an end....to allow us to kill that boss, and have more fun.

But in GW2....I see such a huge rift between raiders and not-raiders.....a rift that grows with every update, every raid...

Even in my own guilds, when recruiting for their raid team(s)....they are only interested in "experienced" raiders. I understand their view...they did their time in PUG raids back in 2016 and 2017, learning mechanics and classes and how to build a raid team. They don't want to waste infinitely - 1 sec training others! But at the same time, when I look in LFG, every raid wants me to ping a trophy count...to prove to them that I have tons of kill experience, in every raid.. Or they want to sell me boss kills.....something I'd never, ever, consider paying for!

So what is a 'semi-casual', "competent-but-not-uber DPS", though "wants-to-learn" supposed to do?

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The answer is: No. There is no problem, but a whole lot of people not willing to put in the required work + people being fed up with that attitude.

See: The dozen other threads on this topic.

They leave training to the training guilds and prefer to simply do quick and easy clears without having to worry about carrying other people. This rift you're seeing is nothing more than people who despise raids being very loud and people who despise casuals being very loud, endless yelling at each other.

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@"qwerty.8943" said:So what is a 'semi-casual', "competent-but-not-uber DPS", though "wants-to-learn" supposed to do?

Don't worry. The next Guild Wars will come out on mobile, and have such a bad/limited interface that everybody can be an elite raider by the end of a week! But for now... why don't you join the raid-training discord, and group up with other people in the same boat?

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@Blocki.4931 said:The answer is: No. There is no problem, but a whole lot of people not willing to put in the required work + people being fed up with that attitude.

See: The dozen other threads on this topic.

They leave training to the training guilds and prefer to simply do quick and easy clears without having to worry about carrying other people. This rift you're seeing is nothing more than people who despise raids being very loud and people who despise casuals being very loud, endless yelling at each other.

I disagree, there is a rift growing and as raiders drop off in raiding guilds because of time, lack of interest other games they wont be replaced with anyone.

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@Fallesafe.5932 said:

@"qwerty.8943" said:So what is a 'semi-casual', "competent-but-not-uber DPS", though "wants-to-learn" supposed to do?

Don't worry. The next Guild Wars will come out on mobile, and have such a bad/limited interface that everybody can be an elite raider by the end of a week! But for now... why don't you join the raid-training discord, and group up with other people in the same boat?

Where can I find this raid-training Discord? I've been wanting to try them out now that my Weaver is geared.

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@"qwerty.8943" said:I wish I could post this anonymously....

So what is a 'semi-casual', "competent-but-not-uber DPS", though "wants-to-learn" supposed to do?

its fairly easy actually. you just could start where everyone else started. form a group. fail a lot, laugh a lot, get better, beat the content.you "fresh folks" even have more tools to use than we had back in ancient times.or if you get lucky you will find a willing group that will show you around and give you time to learn everything.

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@Blocki.4931 said:The answer is: No. There is no problem, but a whole lot of people not willing to put in the required work + people being fed up with that attitude.

See: The dozen other threads on this topic.

They leave training to the training guilds and prefer to simply do quick and easy clears without having to worry about carrying other people. This rift you're seeing is nothing more than people who despise raids being very loud and people who despise casuals being very loud, endless yelling at each other.

That is incorrect.

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You must be on some bad "raiding guilds" if they only recruit people to take into their runs, after all you are a guild member aren't you?What my guild is doing is taking inexperienced guild members into Raids too, after all the rest of us are experienced and can 9-man most bosses easily, even lower-man the easier bosses, so having one, or two, inexperienced members with us won't affect success or failure. Further, you need to tell your guild leaders that taking a guild member with you, instead of recruiting another random person, is an investment. You will train with them and become better and better at playing Raids and in the end they will end up winning too. I don't understand why a guild would say no to their own members, unless the rest of the people on the guild raid team are bad enough and can't carry, or they have nobody that can teach (not everyone is qualified to teach) in that case you need to find a better guild.

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@"Blocki.4931" said:The answer is: No. There is no problem, but a whole lot of people not willing to put in the required work + people being fed up with that attitude.

See: The dozen other threads on this topic.

They leave training to the training guilds and prefer to simply do quick and easy clears without having to worry about carrying other people. This rift you're seeing is nothing more than people who despise raids being very loud and people who despise casuals being very loud, endless yelling at each other.

So, first the OP states that: Raiding is on the verge of destroying huge segments of the GW2 community. You seem to agree with him at first - See: The dozen other threads on this topic. Yes, indeed, the DOZEN of treads on this topic signals that A LOT of players from the GW2 Community are not happy.And, finally you conclude: There is no problem. Still, according to your statement, A LOT of people are so stubborn that they refuse to put the required work. =)

Well, this is the problem: If you are forced to perform a required work in a game in order to obtain something. Performing that work at your free will is not a reason to be discontent. The problem is when you are forced to do this. Don't tell me nobody forces you to do this - until few months ago the raiding was gating even the XP gained from the game. And an armor is something everybody wants. Not forced to do this is when the rewards from raid are not different to what you can obtain from other content. You can decide if you raid or not in that condition. This is something not forced. But when you hide something everybody wants behind a content that according to the developers "only the best, the most dedicated and skillful part of the community, a small minority" can complete, then the things changes.

LOL - and this: "This rift you're seeing is nothing more than people who despise raids being very loud and people who despise casuals being very loud, endless yelling at each other."

I think we indeed have a problem - according to your statement (and I believe you, you seem to be an experienced raider), the casuals only despise the raids. But the raiders have no problem with the raids, they despise the casuals.

I think that you see now the other problem the GW2 community have - a part of it (the small part) despise the other (larger) part.

And you say we have no problems - HM!

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Lol, since that attitude has been a part of the game since dungeons I can't see the whole game vanishing because of it.I remember people who would wait 10 to 15 min for the perfect group so they would have a 5 min run, they could have joined a random pug and done it in 8 but hey attitude.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Linken.6345" said:So the minority of casuals are larger then the minority of the raiders that yell at eachother.Were is the numbers to back that up CristalyanAre you going to seriously claim here that raiders outnumber casuals?

i think the important part of her/his sentence was "that yell at each other". as a comment on "I think that you see now the other problem the GW2 community have - a part of it (the small part) despise the other (larger) part." but the discussion is going nowhere anyway.

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@sigur.9453 said:

@"Linken.6345" said:So the minority of casuals are larger then the minority of the raiders that yell at eachother.Were is the numbers to back that up CristalyanAre you going to seriously claim here that raiders outnumber casuals?

i think the important part of her/his sentence was "that yell at each other". as a comment on "I think that you see now the other problem the GW2 community have - a part of it (the small part) despise the other (larger) part." but the discussion is going nowhere anyway.

You got it man.The small part of both commuities are yelling at eachother noone knows how big either of those parts are so saying that one is larger then the other is wrong.Statistically the casual group is bigger but how many of them really engaging the raiding people?

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Tearing apart the community? Really? I'm all over the place in this game and I've rarely ever seen people even talk about raids. I usually see it only on here and very rarely. Raids is optional content. I'm not required to do it to do end-game. I do fractals for that and I plan on taking my guild to raid training regardless just to actually do it. Whether we beat it or not or continue it or not is up to them, but they will never be forced nor do they need to complete anything to enjoy the vast amount of content at end-game.

I don't get people like the OP. I guess I never will.

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I'll say this as nice as I can so you do not get upset. Based on this part:

@"qwerty.8943" said:Even in my own guilds, when recruiting for their raid team(s)....they are only interested in "experienced" raiders. I understand their view...they did their time in PUG raids back in 2016 and 2017, learning mechanics and classes and how to build a raid team. They don't want to waste infinitely - 1 sec training others! But at the same time, when I look in LFG, every raid wants me to ping a trophy count...to prove to them that I have tons of kill experience, in every raid.. Or they want to sell me boss kills.....something I'd never, ever, consider paying for!

So what is a 'semi-casual', "competent-but-not-uber DPS", though "wants-to-learn" supposed to do?

You have a kitten guild. Find one that is filled with decent people and you'll be invited to training runs in no time, plenty to go around and also advertising regularly.

EDIT:

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:The answer is: No. There is no problem, but a whole lot of people not willing to put in the required work + people being fed up with that attitude.

See: The dozen other threads on this topic.

They leave training to the training guilds and prefer to simply do quick and easy clears without having to worry about carrying other people. This rift you're seeing is nothing more than people who despise raids being very loud and people who despise casuals being very loud, endless yelling at each other.

So, first the OP states that:
Raiding is on the verge of destroying huge segments of the GW2 community
. You seem to agree with him at first -
See: The dozen other threads on this topic
. Yes, indeed, the DOZEN of treads on this topic signals that A LOT of players from the GW2 Community are not happy.And, finally you conclude:
There is no problem
. Still, according to your statement, A LOT of people are so stubborn that they refuse to put the
required work
. =)

Actually no, all this signals is that there is a vocal group of players unable to access raids coming from the very casual pve segment of this game. I'd wager that this group is:

A. a lot smaller than the entire pve communityB. very likely smaller than the active raid community

That does not break the game in a significant way. We could probably get rid of raids all together and GW2 would survive (and that is me as a raider saying this).

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@Kanok.3027 said:Tearing apart the community? Really?Yes. It has already happened. I have seen firsthand several guilds that completely disintegrated over the issue, and some more that survived, but were hit really hard and never really recovered.

I'm all over the place in this game and I've rarely ever seen people even talk about raids. I usually see it only on here and very rarely.Sure. that's because the rift has already happened. There was a lot of talking within first year or two after raids were inroduced. It stopped, because the rift has grown so big there's nothing even to talk about. Talk requires some common ground, after all, and those split communities have now almost nothing in common with each other.

In short, introducing raids caused some really negative impact on the community. Whether the end result was a net negative or not may be up to debate, but the fact that some negative consequences did happen isn't.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Kanok.3027 said:Tearing apart the community? Really?Yes. It has already happened. I have seen firsthand several guilds that completely disintegrated over the issue, and some more that survived, but were hit really hard and never really recovered.

I'm all over the place in this game and I've rarely ever seen people even talk about raids. I usually see it only on here and very rarely.Sure. that's because the rift has already happened. There
was
a lot of talking within first year or two after raids were inroduced. It stopped, because the rift has grown so big there's nothing even to talk about. Talk requires some common ground, after all, and those split communities have now almost nothing in common with each other.

In short, introducing raids caused some really negative impact on the community. Whether the end result was a net negative or not may be up to debate, but the fact that some negative consequences did happen isn't.

Disagree completely. Maybe between dedicated players (who also frequent the forums more) but the vast majority of players in this game do not care about raids, do not care about the drama in raids and have never heard of raid guilds like snowcrows or sites like metabattle.

Let's not grow something out of proportion which is a forum drama favorite.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:Disagree completely. Maybe between dedicated players (who also frequent the forums more) but the vast majority of players in this game do not care about raids, do not care about the drama in raids and have never heard of raid guilds like snowcrows or sites like metabattle.

Let's not grow something out of proportion which is a forum drama favorite.

Agreed. I was going to pretty much say this exact thing, but you beat me to it. When people talk about raiding, they don't screech about it. They want to know more. I have never really seen raiders talking garbage to others because they have better things to do or they tell people to join a guild that does raid training.

Tearing apart the community? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

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@"Astralporing.1957" said:I guess we're playing completely different games then. Which, by the way, just proves my point about the split existing and being really massive. It's apparently so big that you can't even see the other side anymore.

Considering I am in 3 guilds with a wide mix of players from hardcore raiders, to casual raiders, to no raiders, not sure I'm the one not seeing the other side.

Raids are a niche, just as spvp and wvw. 80% of the player base don't give 1 cent about those game modes.

I do agree though that to the small group of "want to raid players but I don't have a raid yet or entered raids", there is nothing more challenging or toxic. That's based on the very nature of a desire not fulfilled.

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Half the new players I've talked to wanted to try raids before they found out that it was basically impossible. Most players I've met wanted to try raids, but they could never find an entry point into the raid community.The reason why most players don't talk about raids is because they have given up on the raid community.

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@Tzarakiel.7490 said:Half the new players I've met wanted to try raids before they found out that it was basically impossible. Most players I've met wanted to try raids, but they could never find an entry point into the raid community.The reason why most players don't talk about raids is because they have given up on the raid community.

Point them to the guild or raid forums where they advertise teaching guild runs?

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