Firebrand/scourge wars 2

[enkidu.5937]

@"Jski.6180" said:That sounds nice finding your way as a non meta player (out side of these 2 classes) but it dose not last and will only lead to pain and ultimate quitting of gw2 and the effectually player base of wvw over all. That why these things MUST be balanced to where we cant have 2 classes coving every thing needed for a group the effects must be spread out. (Truth be told anet game director needs to look at the devs who made these classes and REMOVE them from these classes over all and put them some where else as they cant be bothered with balanced skills over all to the game).

Its going to get realty bad fast and you will see massive population falls. You already seen it with each add on to the "dev liked" classes but soon they will be no hiding from the oppression of the best.I totally agree on that, don't get me wrong. That current lack in balance is not healthy, and partially forces commanders to do things, they don't even want to do: preferring such classes, to keep the more ambitious fraction of their zerg happy and at the flag.

[Nimon.7840]

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

But you loose all the damage from revs.

People keep complaining about scourges in wvw. Even though scourge isn't the damage dealer in zergs right now.Even if you play full grieving, every rev should outdamage you.

The problem is. That most people see their buff/debuff bar. See 5 conditions from scourge: vulnerability, 1stack bleed, 1 stack torment, 1 stack burn, and crippleBut they don't notice the revs hitting them for 10k

[Jski.6180]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

But you loose all the damage from revs.

People keep complaining about scourges in wvw. Even though scourge isn't the damage dealer in zergs right now.Even if you play full grieving, every rev should outdamage you.

The problem is. That most people see their buff/debuff bar. See 5 conditions from scourge: vulnerability, 1stack bleed, 1 stack torment, 1 stack burn, and crippleBut they don't notice the revs hitting them for 10k

Where are you getting your numbers and what is it realy reading? DPS meters are very unreliability unless its same class vs same class or your self vs your self because there a lot of info that left out. Not being able to slip up dmg vs players npc down and up states vs boons vs barrier vs healing gives you are very bad ideal of what going on in a fight. Revs do burst dmg or dmg that you cant tell is coming (often due to culling of effects) that may be needed to push ppl that one step over but its the scorge who is putting in consistent effects of dmg condi and boon counters that puts ppl in that state. Relay any class or any thing can fill that revs last push and that has less to do with a class and more to do with gear. In a way its become the filler class of zerker dmg.

I leave every one with this set of ideal (not aimed at you personally Nimon more everyone on the forms).

Scorge and FB are way over powered in effects so much so that they crate an environment that only Scorge and FB are out right required to play.

Other classes are more of less pure gear classes and lose all ideintly they are simply fillers.

Its becoming a problem in wvw now for being let into groups and it will be a much bigger problem with the new wvw system to come.

This is not what GW2 is for this is not how you should be playing or making others play GW2. This is an abomination of GW2 and its all on Anet at every level.

I given the problem reason and what will happen if nothing is done.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Jski.6180 said:Once FB and scorge was added to the game it comply tipped balancing of how ppl played the game and was become needed to have a viable group in wvw. FB and scorge has only made the game far worst then made it better and it would be better on every one even the players of these classes if they where never added in.

And before the fb and scourge, the guardian and reaper dominated zergs (dh standing sad in a corner). And before that the guardian and necro was the baseline.

Otherwise we're walking in the same shoes as 2012. How is the fb+scourge dominance different from the guard+necro dominance?

[Voltekka.2375]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

But you loose all the damage from revs.

People keep complaining about scourges in wvw. Even though scourge isn't the damage dealer in zergs right now.Even if you play full grieving, every rev should outdamage you.

The problem is. That most people see their buff/debuff bar. See 5 conditions from scourge: vulnerability, 1stack bleed, 1 stack torment, 1 stack burn, and crippleBut they don't notice the revs hitting them for 10k

Where are you getting your numbers and what is it realy reading? DPS meters are very unreliability unless its same class vs same class or your self vs your self because there a lot of info that left out. Not being able to slip up dmg vs players npc down and up states vs boons vs barrier vs healing gives you are very bad ideal of what going on in a fight. Revs do burst dmg or dmg that you cant tell is coming (often due to culling of effects) that may be needed to push ppl that one step over but its the scorge who is putting in consistent effects of dmg condi and boon counters that puts ppl in that state. Relay any class or any thing can fill that revs last push and that has less to do with a class and more to do with gear. In a way its become the filler class of zerker dmg.

I leave every one with this set of ideal (not aimed at you personally Nimon more everyone on the forms).

Scorge and FB are way over powered in effects so much so that they crate an environment that only Scorge and FB are out right required to play.

Other classes are more of less pure gear classes and lose all ideintly they are simply fillers.

Its becoming a problem in wvw now for being let into groups and it will be a much bigger problem with the new wvw system to come.

This is not what GW2 is for this is not how you should be playing or making others play GW2. This is an abomination of GW2 and its all on Anet at every level.

I given the problem reason and what will happen if nothing is done.

"dps meters are very unreliable" NO theyre not. Actually, theyre very useful in showing if a player can full his dps/booncorrupt etc role. Does the minstrel FB do more dps than the weaver? The weaver is terrible. Even in pve, multiple DIFFERENT classes compete in dps. It isnt different in wvw. A scourge can be specced to do either big spike power dmg, or be a booncorrupting machine (sacrificing damage, but still getting decent numbers in dmg). Revs can decimate scourges that are badly positioned, just CoR will do 13k dmg, plus a weaver meteor its gg, scourge instadowned (one rev can instadown eles with one skill, isnt it funny!) . But people often times dont know how to properly play their classes, have no idea about where-when-how to bomb or even reposition. I am sorry, but FB and scourge are just the top of the iceberg. The massive powercreep PoF brought, with all classes, is the real culprit here. Couple that with virtually little to no balance of skills-utilities for wvw, and theres the problem.

[zinkz.7045]

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

Which doesn't really change anything it is still "firebrand/scourge wars". Firstly because most of those classes are only needed in small numbers (to the point you will still have more scourges in a zerg than half the classes combined). Secondly because none of those classes are essential in the way firebrand/scourge are, you can quite happily have a zerg with zero mesmers, zero engies, etc and win every fight because competitvely WvW is a joke and those classes are merely just nice optional extras.

I mean no one expects perfect balance where a 50 man squad is perfectly divided equally among 9 classes, but WvW is a total joke, you literally have two classes account for 50%+ of the squad, literally the worst class balance I have ever seen in a game and one of the reasons WvW is dead.

[steki.1478]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

Which doesn't really change anything it is still "firebrand/scourge wars". Firstly because most of those classes are only needed in small numbers (to the point you will still have more scourges in a zerg than half the classes combined). Secondly because none of those classes are essential in the way firebrand/scourge are, you can quite happily have a zerg with zero mesmers, zero engies, etc and win every fight because competitvely WvW is a joke and those classes are merely just nice optional extras.

I mean no one expects perfect balance where a 50 man squad is perfectly divided equally among 9 classes, but WvW is a total joke, you literally have two classes account for 50%+ of the squad, literally the worst class balance I have ever seen in a game and one of the reasons WvW is dead.

1 fb, 1-2 scourges, 1 herald, 1-2 spb/chrono/weaver/scrapper. per party You dont need more of non fb/scg because they provide strong impact already, even in small numbers. That doesnt mean they are weak, it means they are strong.

Herald is already as "popular" as fb (or at least should be, there's no reason not to have perma fury and occasional dwarf elite buff in each party, along with extremely high, on demand burst). There's no point of stacking 5+ scrappers since they overheal a lot; spellbreakers because they dont have ranged pressure and several bubbles is already enough per fight; chronos because they can already share boons to whole squad and you dont get much value from having more. Weavers you can have up to 10 because they provide huge aoe pressure, but that would require a ranged squad, or them being outside of main squad (which needs to be almost full in that case for eles to be very effective).

FB/scourge comp does has no real spike, no big range and low CC. The only thing they have is high defense. You stack them because they are generally tanky to create a melee ball and because boons=sustain and boon removal=cc+damage are much more impactful. Just like other classes, they lose value when you overstack them because they dont provide everything you would usually need.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

Which doesn't really change anything it is still "firebrand/scourge wars". Firstly because most of those classes are only needed in small numbers (to the point you will still have more scourges in a zerg than half the classes combined). Secondly because none of those classes are essential in the way firebrand/scourge are, you can quite happily have a zerg with zero mesmers, zero engies, etc and win every fight because competitvely WvW is a joke and those classes are merely just nice optional extras.

I mean no one expects perfect balance where a 50 man squad is perfectly divided equally among 9 classes, but WvW is a total joke, you literally have two classes account for 50%+ of the squad, literally the worst class balance I have ever seen in a game and one of the reasons WvW is dead.

Lets see.10 Firebrands because more is a waste of squad space.

1-2 scrapper as emergency healer.

2-3 mesmer for veil/cc always welcome5 weaver for thick meteors.3-4 Bubble boys5-10 revs for boons alone.

So lets say 20 to 15 scourges per „normal“ squad.

Sure its more then any other class but not as crazy as people claim.

[zinkz.7045]

@steki.1478 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

Which doesn't really change anything it is still "firebrand/scourge wars". Firstly because most of those classes are only needed in small numbers (to the point you will still have more scourges in a zerg than half the classes combined). Secondly because none of those classes are essential in the way firebrand/scourge are, you can quite happily have a zerg with zero mesmers, zero engies, etc and win every fight because competitvely WvW is a joke and those classes are merely just nice optional extras.

I mean no one expects perfect balance where a 50 man squad is perfectly divided equally among 9 classes, but WvW is a total joke, you literally have two classes account for 50%+ of the squad, literally the worst class balance I have ever seen in a game and one of the reasons WvW is dead.

1 fb, 1-2 scourges, 1 herald, 1-2 spb/chrono/weaver/scrapper. per party You dont need more of non fb/scg because they provide strong impact already, even in small numbers. That doesnt mean they are weak, it means they are strong.

Herald is already as "popular" as fb (or at least should be, there's no reason not to have perma fury and occasional dwarf elite buff in each party, along with extremely high, on demand burst). There's no point of stacking 5+ scrappers since they overheal a lot; spellbreakers because they dont have ranged pressure and several bubbles is already enough per fight; chronos because they can already share boons to whole squad and you dont get much value from having more. Weavers you can have up to 10 because they provide huge aoe pressure, but that would require a ranged squad, or them being outside of main squad (which needs to be almost full in that case for eles to be very effective).

FB/scourge comp does has no real spike, no big range and low CC. The only thing they have is high defense. You stack them because they are generally tanky to create a melee ball and because boons=sustain and boon removal=cc+damage are much more impactful. Just like other classes, they lose value when you overstack them because they dont provide everything you would usually need.

I am aware why some classes are "needed" in less numbers than others, so I'm not sure why you are telling me.

As for "strong", nonsense, take healbot engy as an example, do a couple of healbot engies make a 50 man squad a bit more 'optimal', yes, but can you do fine without them, the answer is also yes, because competitively WVW is a joke, so most zerg fights are nowhere near close enough for it to matter. The same does not apply to scourges or firebrands, e.g - go run your zerg without scourges and your opponents will just run over you, that is 'strong'.

The game has 9 classes, in a typical zerg squad scourges make up more places than engy, mes, thief, ranger, ele (including eles not in squad) combined, class "balance" is laughable.

[zinkz.7045]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

Which doesn't really change anything it is still "firebrand/scourge wars". Firstly because most of those classes are only needed in small numbers (to the point you will still have more scourges in a zerg than half the classes combined). Secondly because none of those classes are essential in the way firebrand/scourge are, you can quite happily have a zerg with zero mesmers, zero engies, etc and win every fight because competitvely WvW is a joke and those classes are merely just nice optional extras.

I mean no one expects perfect balance where a 50 man squad is perfectly divided equally among 9 classes, but WvW is a total joke, you literally have two classes account for 50%+ of the squad, literally the worst class balance I have ever seen in a game and one of the reasons WvW is dead.

Lets see.10 Firebrands because more is a waste of squad space.

1-2 scrapper as emergency healer.

2-3 mesmer for veil/cc always welcome5 weaver for thick meteors.3-4 Bubble boys5-10 revs for boons alone.

So lets say 20 to 15 scourges per „normal“ squad.

Sure its more then any other class but not as crazy as people claim.

LOL, 20 scourges is more than engi, ranger, mes, ele thief, warrior combined, a game with 9 classes where 1 class takes up more spots than 6 combined, that is laughable.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

Which doesn't really change anything it is still "firebrand/scourge wars". Firstly because most of those classes are only needed in small numbers (to the point you will still have more scourges in a zerg than half the classes combined). Secondly because none of those classes are essential in the way firebrand/scourge are, you can quite happily have a zerg with zero mesmers, zero engies, etc and win every fight because competitvely WvW is a joke and those classes are merely just nice optional extras.

I mean no one expects perfect balance where a 50 man squad is perfectly divided equally among 9 classes, but WvW is a total joke, you literally have two classes account for 50%+ of the squad, literally the worst class balance I have ever seen in a game and one of the reasons WvW is dead.

1 fb, 1-2 scourges, 1 herald, 1-2 spb/chrono/weaver/scrapper. per party You dont need more of non fb/scg because they provide strong impact already, even in small numbers. That doesnt mean they are weak, it means they are strong.

Herald is already as "popular" as fb (or at least should be, there's no reason not to have perma fury and occasional dwarf elite buff in each party, along with extremely high, on demand burst). There's no point of stacking 5+ scrappers since they overheal a lot; spellbreakers because they dont have ranged pressure and several bubbles is already enough per fight; chronos because they can already share boons to whole squad and you dont get much value from having more. Weavers you can have up to 10 because they provide huge aoe pressure, but that would require a ranged squad, or them being outside of main squad (which needs to be almost full in that case for eles to be very effective).

FB/scourge comp does has no real spike, no big range and low CC. The only thing they have is high defense. You stack them because they are generally tanky to create a melee ball and because boons=sustain and boon removal=cc+damage are much more impactful. Just like other classes, they lose value when you overstack them because they dont provide everything you would usually need.

LOL, I am aware why some classes are "needed" in less numbers than others, so I'm not sure why you are telling me.

As for "strong", nonsense, take healbot engy as an example, do a couple of healbot engies make a 50 man squad a bit more 'optimal', yes, but can you do fine without them, the answer is also yes, because competitively WVW is a joke, so most zerg fights are nowhere near close enough for it to matter. The same does not apply to scourges or firebrands, e.g - go run your zerg without scourges and your opponents will just run over you, that is 'strong'.

The game has 9 classes, in a typical zerg squad scourges make up more places than engy, mes, thief, ranger, ele (including eles not in squad combined) combined, class "balance" is laughable.

So this boils down to „nerf scourge“ then.

And im sitting here, happy that we have a meta that allows 7/9 classes in WvW zergs without someone complaining.

And the other 2 are amazing roamer.

We live in a time where literally EVERY class is usefull in WvW.

Balance Team Bad!!11!

Edit:

The REAL reason scourge sees so much play are these 3:

A) Its a strong class for WvW

B.) Its by FAR the easiest build you can play.

C) Scourge gets the most loot/wxp because of crazy tagging.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

One has also to take into account, how many players play these classes.Imagine some meta would require 20% of the zerg playing 4-kit core-engis or some 4-kit gyro-scrapper. There are a few roamers and most holosmith builds are rather easy. However, I doubt most servers would find enough players that have fun playing these builds.It's similar with weavers and mesmers. there aren't many that play them casually.Scourges are rather easy to play while firebrands are a bit more complicated than core guards, but still rather relaxed to play.

So, I'm also quite happy, that most classes have a zerg place in WvW and their actual need is similar to the amount of players that like that class. Though, in Guild setups I also see effective uses of packleader-soulbeasts and vault-daredevils.

[Kaiser.9873]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

But you loose all the damage from revs.

People keep complaining about scourges in wvw. Even though scourge isn't the damage dealer in zergs right now.Even if you play full grieving, every rev should outdamage you.

The problem is. That most people see their buff/debuff bar. See 5 conditions from scourge: vulnerability, 1stack bleed, 1 stack torment, 1 stack burn, and crippleBut they don't notice the revs hitting them for 10k

The people that bother to look at the combat bar realize this is true. The devs did Scourge no favors showing the big red circles all over the place. What neither Scourge nor FB can cover is the 1200 range power bomb. If/when I die in a fight I always look at combat bar afterwards. It's NOT the Scourge hitting for 5K plus. Phase Smash 9K+, Meteor 4K+, CoR 5K+, I got hit by a Fireball for 7K the other day. Scourge provides hazing at best at 1200 (Staff is just utilities really), axe ramps the damage up, but at 900. Shades and wells @900. You're at half, or dead by the time you close the distance with a heavy rev comp.

[Jski.6180]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Once FB and scorge was added to the game it comply tipped balancing of how ppl played the game and was become needed to have a viable group in wvw. FB and scorge has only made the game far worst then made it better and it would be better on every one even the players of these classes if they where never added in.

And before the fb and scourge, the guardian and reaper dominated zergs (dh standing sad in a corner). And before

that

the guardian and necro was the baseline.

Otherwise we're walking in the same shoes as 2012. How is the fb+scourge dominance different from the guard+necro dominance?

So core gurd has limatation on its support out put as a core class it was support aimed but FB added all that much more support. Its like FB become a dubble guardian in effect power creep. There by pushing out any other support. Reaper had to do most of its effects at melee and melee only it was only epile that make them broken as a class.

[Jski.6180]

In a way balancing of elite spec and what they added in need major "locks" base off of the core classes. So a FB should not add as much stab / support because core gurd gets a lot of build in support / stab. Also scorge should not get as much boon corruption and aoe as core necro gets a lot of boon corruption and aoe. This IS an issues of power leap (i would not call this creep because it was way more of a power boots then a small jump "creep") destroying a game type for many classes and nothing more. Gurds and necro where very viable wvw classes but where not the end all be all but FB and scorge ARE end all be all wvw classes.

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

Aaaaaaand your point is?

So you are saying that a full zerg with only necros and guardians is better then one with all of the above?

Yes. And the zerg with less of the 2 classes are worst off. Its even worst with the rune/ sigil update pushing the meta more into the bunker meta where necros and guardians are both the bunker AND the counter to that bunker.

Not entirely true. About 1 month ago, 8 of us repeatedly took down a group of 60 that was primarily scourges and firebrands (with the help of a banner). Our group comp was 1 warrior, 2 revs, 1 firebrand (I think), a druid, reaper, scourge, and soulbeast. Like I've said before, soulbeasts tear scourges apart; and also as I found out during these encounters, herald revs also tear scourges apart (and firebrands to an extent if they are dumb enough to stay grouped up). The way a back line rev should be played basically eliminates how the scourge needs to be played to be effective. It came to a point where the scourges stopped pushing as they were in a constant state of trying to reaz which meant they were constantly getting bombed while trying to rez each other. Then as the downed person was revived, the rezzer's went down. Then when they tried to revive, more rezzer's went down.

It was quite funny to watch because their mindset was exactly what the OP is pointing out, commanders (and this commander is one of the more well known commanders) are under the belief that the more scourges and firebrands you have, the more likely you were going to win. To employ that strategy, you have to run forward in a tight little melee train and bomb as you go. Well it didn't exactly work out that way for the way they hoped. Between the 2 revs (1 carrying a banner), the soulbeast, and warrior dropping the bubble as they ran forward, their scourges repeatedly dropped. So the rezzing started, and the bombs on the rezzer's started.. so they ran. Then the banner downed a bunch more as they ran.

They could have easily alleviated this by having a combo of 5 of their scourges/firebrands swap to soulbeasts, and in turn the soulbeasts focus down the 2 revs (especially the 1 carrying the banner). But why have soulbeasts in your comp? Ewww yuck they aren't meta. Hell even an annoying deadeye or mirage would have done the trick.

I will agree though, Anet made the combination of firebrand and scourge very desirable to play in groups, a little too desirable compared to other classes.

[Jski.6180]

So if your a commander run with out FB and scorges see how that works out for ya.

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:7/9 classes are meta in zerg figts.

If the enemy only has Firebrands and scourges then he has no bubbles, no insane scrapper heals, no meteorshowers, no mesmer cc/veil/portal, no boons from rev.

I take that enemy server any day.

Scorge covers the boon strip and healing as well as aoe dmg and burst single targets and cc. FB covers the strong boons as well as healing and cc.

But you loose all the damage from revs.

People keep complaining about scourges in wvw. Even though scourge isn't the damage dealer in zergs right now.Even if you play full grieving, every rev should outdamage you.

The problem is. That most people see their buff/debuff bar. See 5 conditions from scourge: vulnerability, 1stack bleed, 1 stack torment, 1 stack burn, and crippleBut they don't notice the revs hitting them for 10k

The people that bother to look at the combat bar realize this is true. The devs did Scourge no favors showing the big red circles all over the place. What neither Scourge nor FB can cover is the 1200 range power bomb. If/when I die in a fight I always look at combat bar afterwards. It's NOT the Scourge hitting for 5K plus. Phase Smash 9K+, Meteor 4K+, CoR 5K+, I got hit by a Fireball for 7K the other day. Scourge provides hazing at best at 1200 (Staff is just utilities really), axe ramps the damage up, but at 900. Shades and wells @900. You're at half, or dead by the time you close the distance with a heavy rev comp.

Exactly. Scourge is capable of dishing out large AoE bombs of spike damage, but their true value is in boon strip and corrupt, (and barrier obv). Often it's up to the backline crew (Revs and Eles mostly) to either burst the weakened enemy player into downed, or finish off the downs in the first place. I've seen Scourge eat 18k COS into downed because of (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swift_Termination) and they were below that threshold, so they probably had 14-16k health left? A sand shade wouldn't take them down at that point, but a hammer to the face sure will. I see it often when the enemy frontline meets my squad's shades, but before they can dodge back they are eating a Rev hammer or a meteor.

There is no question that Scourge is still a major factor in how the meta performs, as they are literally spamming AoE bombs, but unless a player is hit by several scourges at once, it's likely another DPS'er who is taking them down.

[Jski.6180]

@Acyk.9671 said:@Jski.6180 said:

So if your a commander run with out FB and scorges see how that works out for ya.

What's your point? Delete guard and necro?

Delete FB and scorge. Core guard and core necro are very balanced its the added on of these 2 elites that have effectually made them dubble version of them self.

Also keep the devs that made these 2 elite spec as far from class balancing as humanly can.

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

[Jski.6180]

@Acyk.9671 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Acyk.9671 said:@Jski.6180 said:

So if your a commander run with out FB and scorges see how that works out for ya.

What's your point? Delete guard and necro?

Delete FB and scorge. Core guard and core necro are very balanced its the added on of these 2 elites that have effectually made them dubble version of them self.

Sure lets go back to 20 guards and 15 necro in squad. You don't realize numbers because there were no squad then but meta was 4 classes, now it's 7. When it comes to balance i pick 7 everyday.

Lol that no where near how it was yes you did have a lot of guards but you did not have nearly as many necro you had mez for boon strip not support you had ele for real hard and soft cc you had rev for support not just a wepon you had thfs that could pick as well as rangers. It was just over all a better game.

All devs should out right hate the FB and scorge devs they destroyed most of the balancing in the game.

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

[shiri.4257]

@Jski.6180 said:So if your a commander run with out FB and scorges see how that works out for ya.

Perhaps you should work on being a better commander so more FB and scourges join your squad.