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do we need a passive lifesaver in rated SPvP


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Really hard question on one side if these traits become ammunition and have 2 of these to use when you want, but there could be a lot of new one shot (kill in 1cc) builds and that wouldn't be fun for anyone. The other issue is that spvp has to change the traits fully but they are normally tied to WvW and there you open whole new can of worms.

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I play without passives, if i die that's on me. What i dislike is that those lifesaver autoproc are generaly used by the main offenders. A burst build or any build with high damage potential shouldn't be able to 100-0 someone with a security net. If you want to survive, spec for survival. Trade offs or rather lack of trade offs, is why the game feels so wrong right now.

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@Chaith.8256 said:Yes because classes without instant defenses need burst protection.

The classes that force passive lifesavers are the same ones advocating for it....amusing to say the least, would the burst dmg of the class you play be toned down, there would be no need for passive gameplay in pvp...ofc we would need to nerf all other insta burst dmg in game and that would never happen as it would send the pve playerbase in frenzy mode

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No, auto procs saving your bacon allow you to make mistakes and not be punished for them as severely as you should have been. If people are blowing up in half a second maybe that should be addressed as many classes are balanced around reducing damage and healing back up with sustain like ele, necro (through shroud), guardian and in some ways ranger though it's got far too many evades and kiting to have that now.

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I’d say yes just because it gives you counterplay to getting instakilled by certain builds.

However, I think that these abilities need to have a visual either on the players helthbar, or around the character themselves that shows they have this effect up so both them and their opponents can play around such an effect. Or to at least show when it’s on CD if they want to keep whether this particular warrior has defy pain a mystery.

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Not really. I took defy and endure pain off of my war and was able to function pretty well.

Take that with a grain of salt though. The existence of passive lifesavers affects people building glass builds by dissuading them from just funneling everything into instakills.If their build gets invalidated in the 2-3 seconds of passive immunity someone they planned to gank gets, most likely they will consider something more balanced in an effort to prevent (immediately die if your opponent slotted this trait.)

With those passives gone, the threat of them maybe being slotted is gone, and we will probably see a resurgence of instagib builds, particularly thief builds.Passive lifesavers have their place in the meta. They may be obnoxious, but so are instant death builds.

Should you learn to dodge? Yes.Should you be forced to play with no passives? I'd say yes, but we both know the community is going to lean hard into instant kill builds the moment there's no stopgaps.

@Vieux P.1238 said:Weird on how peep's complained on EM for making Mirage evade bursty CC one shot's. But when it comes to there own class it's like -Oh no..we be so vulnerable to be one shoted ourselves. We can't have that! Do what mirage did, L2dodge...

Adorably cheeky how you imply that Mirages have to learn to dodge. Not new material, but cheeky nonetheless.

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@Chaith.8256 said:Yes because classes without instant defenses need burst protection.

I would argue that protection should be dodging. If a burst or cc can't be dodged or otherwise reacted to (eg. moving out of the hit area) but is powerful enough to burst someone for a significant amount of their health, that's a problem with the skill.

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@coro.3176 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Yes because classes without instant defenses need burst protection.

I would argue that protection should be dodging. If a burst or cc can't be dodged or otherwise reacted to (eg. moving out of the hit area) but is powerful enough to burst someone for a significant amount of their health, that's a problem with the skill.

One problem with that philosophy is that there are plenty of skills that are capable of doing a significant amount of enemy health %, but when you combine them with offensive stealth, teleports, or both, this totally prevents any reaction in time. Many classes are way better at landing consistent, easy, fast bursts with teleports & stealths than others.

Random dodging is not the protection that is needed, it's child's play for some classes to burst from a far distance, at any time.

Again, I don't feel that all the defenses that slower classes have should necessarily be passive, but they need equally strong defenses in place.

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@Chaith.8256 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Yes because classes without instant defenses need burst protection.

I would argue that protection should be dodging. If a burst or cc can't be dodged or otherwise reacted to (eg. moving out of the hit area) but is powerful enough to burst someone for a significant amount of their health, that's a problem with the skill.

One problem with that philosophy is that there are plenty of skills that are capable of doing a significant amount of enemy health %, but when you combine them with offensive stealth, teleports, or both, this totally prevents any reaction in time. Many classes are way better at landing consistent, easy, fast bursts with teleports & stealths than others.

Random dodging is not the protection that is needed, it's child's play for some classes to burst from a far distance, at any time.

Again, I don't feel that all the defenses that slower classes have should necessarily be passive, but they need equally strong defenses in place.

It's true, and I'd rather those combinations be tuned than keep passive lifesavers around, but it probably is just easier to keep the passives.. It just really sucks having my first Magnet canceled by a passive cc-break every. single. time., or my condi ticking proccing a passive lifesaver every. single. time. giving my opponent the advantage in the fight.

A teleporting instant unblockable cc-ing burst is bad no matter how you slice it. IMO skills ought to be designed with counterplay in mind with consideration to how they can interact with the rest of the class' abilities as well as sigil/rune options.

.. but yeah, probably easier to keep the passives...

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Because not all classes have them to begin with, and when you compare arcane shield on a 90 second cooldown to a traited elixir s on a 72 s cooldown you'll see why. Terrible people are getting hard carried by passives, used to be warriors. Now there are Holosmiths.If a class with 11k base health, less blocks, less protection, less stability and no vigor is left without it. Holosmith doesn't deserve one either.

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I mean does it really have to be a yes/no question though? Why not adjusted it so its in a median/compromised ground.

Ofc threshold/amount will need adjustments but if it goes like "Xs Protection at 75%" or "X amount Barrier at 50%" then it can be overcomed if attacker puts a little more effort, while not making complete damage immunity for a period of time. As far as general PvP concerns nowadays not many people complain about Ele's final shielding because it only blocks 3 attacks (and not many eles anyway).

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