The EM Debacle

[Trigr.6481]

The point to Elusive Mind is to free up a stun break in your utility slot, giving you the choice of actually switching it up in terms of playstyle, the way it currently is now is pretty counter intuitive from a design standpoint. honestly I would like to see the exhaustion removed from Elusive Mind, however to balance it out I'd like to see EM on a cooldown based system just like any normal stunbreak would have. Personally I don't think a 20 second cd is not too much to ask for for a grandmaster trait. In terms of knowing when EM is up, just simple change the color of your dodge bar to blue when it's off cooldown so the player knows when it's ready.

When it comes to the argument of dodging while cc'd, personally I wouldn't mind giving that exclusively to Infinite horizon, thematically this makes sense as well. What better time for your illusions to perform an ambush when you're being stunned etc. That way both traits are strong, but also aren't over the top. EM gets a stunbreak every 20 seconds, and the mechanic behind dodging while cc'd moves exclusively to infinite horizon. Obviously if this were to go into effect something would have to change to dune cloak....lets be real it's pretty underwhelming compared to the other 2 traits currently. Let me know your thoughts, thanks.

Countless

[Math.5123]

No, dodging while stunned needs to go. Mirage has a longer dodge than every other class. It dodges when healing, it dodges on iAmbush. Dodges on axe 3 and it had distortion. If you're getting stunned with having twice or even three times the amount of evades compared to a few other classes, you deserve to get punished.

[losingcontrol.1084]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:No, dodging while stunned needs to go. Mirage has a longer dodge than every other class. It dodges when healing, it dodges on iAmbush. Dodges on axe 3 and it had distortion. If you're getting stunned with having twice or even three times the amount of evades compared to a few other classes, you deserve to get punished.

If you begin watching the boonbar of the enemy mesmer you can see how every single invuln is showed there, distortion, mirage clock, everything.

That's why good thieves are always able to land 100% steals on mirages, they watch boon bar and as soon mirage clock ends, bam steal.

Dodging while CC'd is a bit crazy yeah, but you just need to time your burst immediately after and not spamming it random into mirage clock or distortion.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:No, dodging while stunned needs to go. Mirage has a longer dodge than every other class. It dodges when healing, it dodges on iAmbush. Dodges on axe 3 and it had distortion. If you're getting stunned with having twice or even three times the amount of evades compared to a few other classes, you deserve to get punished.

dodging while stunned has nothing to do with Elusive Mind :) EM make your dodge a stunbreak while without it, you stay stunned but evading all incoming dmg. Plus Ambush skills doesn't evade . It's just that they cast them during the evading frames (which triggers the ambush skill)

Don't get me wrong ... I hate mirage mechanics and should have never been released. But when you complain about one thing . At least understand what we are talking about and don't make wrong affirmations.

Thank you for your attention.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Mirage cloak is fine as it is because like someone else said, it's displayed on the boon/buff bar.

[tinyreborn.1938]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:No, dodging while stunned needs to go. Mirage has a longer dodge than every other class. It dodges when healing, it dodges on iAmbush. Dodges on axe 3 and it had distortion. If you're getting stunned with having twice or even three times the amount of evades compared to a few other classes, you deserve to get punished.FYI its longer because you cant get out of danger with simple dodge roll as others do and dont even cover ambush itself , even if you spam 1 right after dodge. Complaint about feature that bring elite spec is same as you would complaint about existance of photon forge. Well played , just as usual .Axe 3 never had distortion or wtf you are about ?Wait you really qq about skills have evade ? Ranger ,thieves,eles even warriors,revenants have them as well ,another valid complaint /notThose who have 2-3 times less dodges can facetank 3-4 times more than mesmer can and have access to various boons and passive autoprocs. K

[Math.5123]

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:No, dodging while stunned needs to go. Mirage has a longer dodge than every other class. It dodges when healing, it dodges on iAmbush. Dodges on axe 3 and it had distortion. If you're getting stunned with having twice or even three times the amount of evades compared to a few other classes, you deserve to get punished.

dodging while stunned has nothing to do with Elusive Mind :) EM make your dodge a stunbreak while without it, you stay stunned but evading all incoming dmg. Plus Ambush skills doesn't evade . It's just that they cast them during the evading frames (which triggers the ambush skill)

Don't get me wrong ... I hate mirage mechanics and should have never been released. But when you complain about one thing . At least understand what we are talking about and don't make wrong affirmations.

Thank you for your attention.

I know dodging while stunned is baseline, I know what EM does.iAmbush = illusionary ambush and it does provide evade in the form of Mirage cloak.

[Neil.3825]

Dodge while stun is the problem, like sand savant was the scourge problem. What they do is nerf all but sand savant.So OP, I think they will remove soon the clean condi on EM because Anet like jokes (and maybe add red or green circles ?).

[tinyreborn.1938]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:No, dodging while stunned needs to go. Mirage has a longer dodge than every other class. It dodges when healing, it dodges on iAmbush. Dodges on axe 3 and it had distortion. If you're getting stunned with having twice or even three times the amount of evades compared to a few other classes, you deserve to get punished.

dodging while stunned has nothing to do with Elusive Mind :) EM make your dodge a stunbreak while without it, you stay stunned but evading all incoming dmg. Plus Ambush skills doesn't evade . It's just that they cast them during the evading frames (which triggers the ambush skill)

Don't get me wrong ... I hate mirage mechanics and should have never been released. But when you complain about one thing . At least understand what we are talking about and don't make wrong affirmations.

Thank you for your attention.

I know dodging while stunned is baseline, I know what EM does.iAmbush = illusionary ambush and it does provide evade in the form of Mirage cloak.

Then why you complain about utility... ?

[LazySummer.2568]

entitled mesmer mains actually believe they should have the option of having a ""different"" playstyle from everyone else by being able to stunbreak without using up a utility slot and not have to make any tradeoffs just because it's a grandmaster trait (and them being too used to the SS tier above everyone else thanks to the EM before the nerf). Just be glad you guys are still meta and are still not taking any extra stunbreaks for utility thanks to bullshit such as having 3 charges of jaunt to displace yourself, 4 shatters to blind attackers while cced, with one being an invul, and of course, the ability to dodge while cced.

Wanna talk about shit grandmaster traits? literally all of ele's grandmaster traits are shit because they are actually balanced to not be able do everything at once and require either other traits to be good or only has an effect under very limited conditions. Some are even flat out useless in all gamemodes and only good for open world rp.

[RlyOsim.2497]

I could care less about the stun break at this stage, remove it completely, just leave the condi cleanse. Mesmer had to run Inspiration or the cleanse mantra on pretty much every-single-build until PoF, it got real old.

[Simonoly.4352]

Yes EM exhaustion does makes the trait unappealing and a cooldown would be a far better way for tackling this. It puts it more in line with other traits that allow automatic stun breaking too, allowing opponents to keep track of when a CC might be broken without the use of a utility skill.

Mirage Cloak itself is absolutely fine though...if people are willing to play around it.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

People still complain about mirage cloak evade while stunned... I think people are forgetting that mirage has distortion, blink, SoM, staff 2, jaunt. They're acting as if as soon as mirage cloak can't be activated while stunned mirage will die to them, poor delusional folk...

Also mirage cloak isn't an invuln.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

sure either a decent cd like that or removes 2 condis.

[DragonFury.6243]

@Trigr.6481 said:The point to Elusive Mind is to free up a stun break in your utility slot, giving you the choice of actually switching it up in terms of playstyle, the way it currently is now is pretty counter intuitive from a design standpoint. honestly I would like to see the exhaustion removed from Elusive Mind, however to balance it out I'd like to see EM on a cooldown based system just like any normal stunbreak would have. Personally I don't think a 20 second cd is not too much to ask for for a grandmaster trait. In terms of knowing when EM is up, just simple change the color of your dodge bar to blue when it's off cooldown so the player knows when it's ready.

When it comes to the argument of dodging while cc'd, personally I wouldn't mind giving that exclusively to Infinite horizon, thematically this makes sense as well. What better time for your illusions to perform an ambush when you're being stunned etc. That way both traits are strong, but also aren't over the top. EM gets a stunbreak every 20 seconds, and the mechanic behind dodging while cc'd moves exclusively to infinite horizon. Obviously if this were to go into effect something would have to change to dune cloak....lets be real it's pretty underwhelming compared to the other 2 traits currently. Let me know your thoughts, thanks.

Countless

Scourge have a core grandmaster trait that cause 3 second fire on 5 second ice so I think em on 20 second icd is way too low

[Curunen.8729]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/712308/#Comment_712308ICD with UI indicator (see gif below). Cleanse one condition on every dodge, only stunbreak is affected by this.Breaking cc activates EM ICD and changes colour of dodge bar.White line ammo system indicates remaining time until EM stunbreak available.ICD can be adjusted to any duration without affecting overall balance of the trait (eg can be put at 20s)

Of course there are many other and somewhat better options, though I think the bottom line that EM in its current state is stupid is generally agreed on, so I'm open for any potential change that makes sense with the context of how mirage dodge works.

[Daishi.6027]

Dodge while stunned isn't a problem when your enemy becomes predictable because of it.

At least Mirage can be stunned to reduce pressure and keep it in place compared to majority of the cast with a plethora of stability or on demand skills that invalidate the stun. Not to say mesmer as a whole doesn't have decent access to stun breakers, but a few long cooldowns does not compare to what the meta cast has access to.

If you consider baseline Mirage cloak a problem then I think you need to take a large look at the rest of the game. Then take an even wider look and Mirage's placement in it because it's not over performing in any statistics.