Revenant origins.

[Ashgar.3024]

I've been playing my Rev more and more and really getting to appreciate the class but one thing has always been nagging me a little, and its the lack of context around them. Pretty much every other professions uses skills and powers that could potentially be learned and trained for, at least that's what implied.

But for Revs its pretty blurry, they feel like an "hero" or "prestige" class that some other games have, which usually come with an hefty backstory. Their powers don't seem to be something you can train for, more something you acquire after some sort of attunement. Only example we have to go with Lorewise being Rytlock doesn't really help either, as he basically became one just by jumping in and out of the mists, which is something that anybody can seem to do through the "Mist Wars" (aka PvP).

So just wondering if its there's actual lore behind it or its left as a blank slate on purpose to allow us to figure that one out?

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

There's... some. The relevant bit is "The story of how charr tribune Rytlock Brimstone became the first revenant hasn’t yet been told, but at the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns, he’ll have brought the knowledge of how to obtain that power to the world of Tyria, making it somewhat common knowledge. There’s no profession-specific story content planned for the expansion, but a brand-new revenant starting on their journey will not have had to visit the Mists or undergo any more of an advanced process to access revenant powers than they would for the other core professions. All that’s necessary to begin training as a revenant is knowledge of the profession, the faith and will to reach into the Mists, and an open mind."

[perilisk.1874]

@"Griever.8150" said:I've been playing my Rev more and more and really getting to appreciate the class but one thing has always been nagging me a little, and its the lack of context around them. Pretty much every other professions uses skills and powers that could potentially be learned and trained for, at least that's what implied.

But for Revs its pretty blurry, they feel like an "hero" or "prestige" class that some other games have, which usually come with an hefty backstory. Their powers don't seem to be something you can train for, more something you acquire after some sort of attunement. Only example we have to go with Lorewise being Rytlock doesn't really help either, as he basically became one just by jumping in and out of the mists, which is something that anybody can seem to do through the "Mist Wars" (aka PvP).

So just wondering if its there's actual lore behind it or its left as a blank slate on purpose to allow us to figure that one out?

AFAIK, Rytlock was taught by Glint, and taught the profession to others. Which means that technically, a Revenant player character is either a time traveler, or was trained by time travelers. Or Tyria is a giant fractal left over after the world exploded. Or something. Technically, it seems to combine aspects of the ritualist and dervish professions, but more focused on echoes of legends than shades of the dead or remnants of divine power (so theoretically the requisite knowledge existed somewhere in society). But either way, its' all calling out stuff from the mists and binding that power into things on Tyria.

[ugrakarma.9416]

All lore of professions are vague and with little information. We have an improvement in the PoF, with the lore explaining how and why the new specs came about and they are in some way related with the new content(Elona)..... In the specs of the HoT we do not even have this, all the lore about is merely a description (They just say they do this and that), but they don't explain how and why they came about e dont have nothing that suggests they are attached to magumma jungle.. here an example( https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker ).. ....... so practically, of the new specs of HoT, the revenant / herald, is actually the only one there had a story behind their origin.

NOTE: theres some few exceptions about i stated above on HoT, like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scrapper and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Druid https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daredevil

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@"perilisk.1874" said:Or something.

My bet is the 'or something' is that Rytlock returned to Tyria sometime before the first couple story steps of HoT. Even setting aside the playable revenants, and how surprisingly well-informed he was upon arriving in the jungle... we've now seen

as well as the one

The two aren't even close to appearing the same- ones an orange fiery swirl that's held open for at least a few seconds, the other is in Mists white and blue and snaps shut before Rytlock can even get back to his feet. Then there's the detail that he's not wearing a blindfold when he leaves the Mists, and he is when we first see him in Maguuma. The two scenes just don't link directly together.

[Teratus.2859]

Rytlock is the only lore based Revenant to my knowledge and officially defined as the very first user of the profession, so technically player character Revenants don't really exist.As a player class they defy game lore as they contradict it but this is something we obviously just overlook.. it's either that or not allow players to be Revenants.There are ways they could have done this.. such as playing as a default class until a certain point in the story than gaining the ability to class swap which would have made more sense from a lore perspective but it would have caused so many other issues and needlessly complicated the game and the class.Easier the way they did it even if it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective.

The Revenant is a new profession.. Rytlock specified that while searching the mists for Sohothin, he encountered Glint and she was the one who taught him the power of the Revenant.My best guess there is that during her time in the mists Glint adopted and enhanced the powers of the old Canthan Ritualist profession using her vast knowledge and power to create a new and even more powerful profession from those abilities.. but that's just speculation on my part.

What we do know about the profession is that it can be taught but it's unclear if one needs to be in the mists or not to learn these abilities.Rytlock has so far not taken on an apprentice or shared any knowledge on how to learn the profession so from that alone I'm inclined to believe that he is the only Revenant on Tyria, and until he spreads that knowledge he will remain the only one as Glint is currently unable to pass the knowledge onto another.It has however been specified that Revenant's much like the old Ritualist profession are not blind but rather willingly use blindfolds to help them focus their powers, which is another similarity that hint's that the two professions are linked and that the Revenant is a new and superior variation of the Ritualist profession.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

Word of Dev is that playable revs are part of the lore, though, and that Rytlock already has done what was needed to get the knowledge spreading. It causes some timeline confusion, but this is hardly the first time a new addition has done that.

As for NPCs, there is one other that I know of, although she doesn't specify how she learned- only that she doesn't know as much as Rytlock.

[Tyson.5160]

@Teratus.2859 said:Rytlock is the only lore based Revenant to my knowledge and officially defined as the very first user of the profession, so technically player character Revenants don't really exist.As a player class they defy game lore as they contradict it but this is something we obviously just overlook.. it's either that or not allow players to be Revenants.There are ways they could have done this.. such as playing as a default class until a certain point in the story than gaining the ability to class swap which would have made more sense from a lore perspective but it would have caused so many other issues and needlessly complicated the game and the class.Easier the way they did it even if it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective.

The Revenant is a new profession.. Rytlock specified that while searching the mists for Sohothin, he encountered Glint and she was the one who taught him the power of the Revenant.My best guess there is that during her time in the mists Glint adopted and enhanced the powers of the old Canthan Ritualist profession using her vast knowledge and power to create a new and even more powerful profession from those abilities.. but that's just speculation on my part.

What we do know about the profession is that it can be taught but it's unclear if one needs to be in the mists or not to learn these abilities.Rytlock has so far not taken on an apprentice or shared any knowledge on how to learn the profession so from that alone I'm inclined to believe that he is the only Revenant on Tyria, and until he spreads that knowledge he will remain the only one as Glint is currently unable to pass the knowledge onto another.It has however been specified that Revenant's much like the old Ritualist profession are not blind but rather willingly use blindfolds to help them focus their powers, which is another similarity that hint's that the two professions are linked and that the Revenant is a new and superior variation of the Ritualist profession.

Actually they are part of the lore. There are also more then just Rytlock. Npcs in Auric Basin say this:

Bartimus Swordheart: What do you make of all the revenants running around lately?Obstructor Rora: Their ability to channel power from the Mists is fascinating.Bartimus Swordheart: Hmmm, bet they're pretty good with swords.Obstructor Rora: (snort) You aren't smart enough to become one. You'd only wind up trapped in the Mists.Bartimus Swordheart: I didn't say I wanted to become one, just curious what you thought of them.

[Tyson.5160]

Just to add, according to the Gw2 website, that when Revenants wear there blind folds they are technically blinded, because you know your covering your eyes. Apparently the reason they can see is because of the Legend their channeling are able use there own senses.

“A revenant’s signature blindfold isn’t mandatory, either, as revenants don’t become blind as a natural result of their profession. Most of them only wear a blindfold as a tool to help them commune with the legends, who are able to perceive the world through their own senses.”

[Teratus.2859]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@"Teratus.2859" said:Rytlock is the only lore based Revenant to my knowledge and officially defined as the very first user of the profession, so technically player character Revenants don't really exist.As a player class they defy game lore as they contradict it but this is something we obviously just overlook.. it's either that or not allow players to be Revenants.There are ways they could have done this.. such as playing as a default class until a certain point in the story than gaining the ability to class swap which would have made more sense from a lore perspective but it would have caused so many other issues and needlessly complicated the game and the class.Easier the way they did it even if it doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective.

The Revenant is a new profession.. Rytlock specified that while searching the mists for Sohothin, he encountered Glint and she was the one who taught him the power of the Revenant.My best guess there is that during her time in the mists Glint adopted and enhanced the powers of the old Canthan Ritualist profession using her vast knowledge and power to create a new and even more powerful profession from those abilities.. but that's just speculation on my part.

What we do know about the profession is that it can be taught but it's unclear if one needs to be in the mists or not to learn these abilities.Rytlock has so far not taken on an apprentice or shared any knowledge on how to learn the profession so from that alone I'm inclined to believe that he is the only Revenant on Tyria, and until he spreads that knowledge he will remain the only one as Glint is currently unable to pass the knowledge onto another.It has however been specified that Revenant's much like the old Ritualist profession are not blind but rather willingly use blindfolds to help them focus their powers, which is another similarity that hint's that the two professions are linked and that the Revenant is a new and superior variation of the Ritualist profession.

Actually they are part of the lore. There are also more then just Rytlock. Npcs in Auric Basin say this:

Bartimus Swordheart: What do you make of all the revenants running around lately?Obstructor Rora: Their ability to channel power from the Mists is fascinating.Bartimus Swordheart: Hmmm, bet they're pretty good with swords.Obstructor Rora: (snort) You aren't smart enough to become one. You'd only wind up trapped in the Mists.Bartimus Swordheart: I didn't say I wanted to become one, just curious what you thought of them.

Yeah I think that's more of a reference to players.. I don't think there are any NPC Revenants other than Rytlock, nor is there proper lore defining it.It's the commander conflict.. each player character being the commander in their own unique story but other players in the world being recognized as mercs or freelance heroes.As the commander we can see and recognize Revenant players in this way.. but as a Revenant player just being a Revenant conflicts with pretty much all the story content.That's what I mean when I say Revenant players don't exist in the lore.. from the commander perspective it simply doesn't and cannot make sense since our story starts years before the profession is introduced to the game world and lore.

I think Anet could easily address this by making some kind of reference in the game about where these Revenant players came from..Something likeNPC 1: "Since Rytlock Brimstone returned from the mists more and more Revenant's started appearing on Tyria"NPC 2: "Where did they come from I wonder"NPC 1: "Apparently some heroes followed Rytlock into the mists seeking this new power.. I guess they succeeded"NPC 2: "You may be right.. although I've heard rumors that these new Revenant's are not from this world.. or time."NPC 1: "Yikes.. that's an interesting rumor, I wonder if there's any truth to it."NPC 2: "I guess we could ask one.."NPC 1: "Ha! Nooo thanks.. I don't fancy being channeled and used once by a Revenant when i'm dead."NPC 2: "Laughs, Don't you need to be some kind of legendary hero or something to qualify?"NPC 1: "Laughs, Well you never know my cooking skills are legendary after all."

Then they both laugh or something..I dunno I pulled all that from my head on a whim i'm sure Anet could do way better XD

[Loki.4871]

IIRC the class concept originated from the Ritualist in Guildwars I. Functionally like the engineer (shotgun blast of everything and dropped turre-I mean summoned and chained spirits) one of the fluff things they could do was channel the power of powerful anscestors via their ashes (read: bundles that buffed the character somehow). As I understand that's where the class concept originated, and as others before me have said Glint's spirit in the mists taught Rytlock how to Revenant, and he's explained/taught others how to do it themselves. Reading between the lines it's likely more than one character has done a 'profession change' like Rytlock.If you mean 'how do they use things like Shiro's 'Impossible Odds' ability' then... they're channelling shiro. I imagine that with that example, and this is my own personal theory/headcanon to be clear, shiro is sharing/controlling the character's body to an extent, so while the Revenant channels shiro they know how to do shiro's stuff, but when they're not they simply don't know how to do it, because it's shiro's spirit in the mists doing it, not them.

[MurkWan.8526]

@"Loki.4871" said:IIRC the class concept originated from the Ritualist in Guildwars I. Functionally like the engineer (shotgun blast of everything and dropped turre-I mean summoned and chained spirits) one of the fluff things they could do was channel the power of powerful anscestors via their ashes (read: bundles that buffed the character somehow). As I understand that's where the class concept originated, and as others before me have said Glint's spirit in the mists taught Rytlock how to Revenant, and he's explained/taught others how to do it themselves. Reading between the lines it's likely more than one character has done a 'profession change' like Rytlock.If you mean 'how do they use things like Shiro's 'Impossible Odds' ability' then... they're channelling shiro. I imagine that with that example, and this is my own personal theory/headcanon to be clear, shiro is sharing/controlling the character's body to an extent, so while the Revenant channels shiro they know how to do shiro's stuff, but when they're not they simply don't know how to do it, because it's shiro's spirit in the mists doing it, not them.

Agree with the idea on how the legend takes control of the character's body to some extent. It becomes more apparent when Shiro declares "I demand that you release me" when he is invoked, and the Demon Mallyx's dialogue when the Revenant is idle. I think invoking is an internal push and pull between the character and the legend.

[perilisk.1874]

@Loki.4871 said:IIRC the class concept originated from the Ritualist in Guildwars I. Functionally like the engineer (shotgun blast of everything and dropped turre-I mean summoned and chained spirits) one of the fluff things they could do was channel the power of powerful anscestors via their ashes (read: bundles that buffed the character somehow). As I understand that's where the class concept originated, and as others before me have said Glint's spirit in the mists taught Rytlock how to Revenant, and he's explained/taught others how to do it themselves. Reading between the lines it's likely more than one character has done a 'profession change' like Rytlock.If you mean 'how do they use things like Shiro's 'Impossible Odds' ability' then... they're channelling shiro. I imagine that with that example, and this is my own personal theory/headcanon to be clear, shiro is sharing/controlling the character's body to an extent, so while the Revenant channels shiro they know how to do shiro's stuff, but when they're not they simply don't know how to do it, because it's shiro's spirit in the mists doing it, not them.

I think it's a mix of ritualists (especially the blindfold motif) and dervishes -- meaning, it seems like the way the dervishes channel and are transformed by the gods powers is very similar to the way revenants channel Mist echoes to give themselves abilities (though without the physical transformation).

The Renegade e-spec brought it much closer to the Ritualist side of its roots. Maybe the next e-spec will bring it closer to the Dervish side? Greatsword wielding PBAoE attacks, consuming boons for power, and maybe an F2 that transforms the Rev into an avatar of its current legend?

[Amanda Whitemoon.6173]

to talk about the revenant /dervish , i have a revenant(herald) with a staff, she basicly is a dervish, activating and releasing the facets as the dervish enchantments did, and the staff is melee, and looks awesome with a scythe skin.

[Tyson.5160]

If you look closely at the spell breaker traits and abilities you’ll notice it uses a lot of dervish skills.

[perilisk.1874]

@Tyson.5160 said:If you look closely at the spell breaker traits and abilities you’ll notice it uses a lot of dervish skills.

Which is odd, since the lore paints them as being derived from Paragons...

[Spraxer.8461]

how do i learn about lore as a newb?

[Tyson.5160]

@perilisk.1874 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:If you look closely at the spell breaker traits and abilities you’ll notice it uses a lot of dervish skills.

Which is odd, since the lore paints them as being derived from Paragons...

I think lore paints them as former Sunspears, which could be paragon, dervish or any number of classes.

[Teratus.2859]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@perilisk.1874 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:If you look closely at the spell breaker traits and abilities you’ll notice it uses a lot of dervish skills.

Which is odd, since the lore paints them as being derived from Paragons...

I think lore paints them as former Sunspears, which could be paragon, dervish or any number of classes.

True, although I admit I did always find it a little amusing the order was called Sunspears but you didn't need to be a spear wielding paragon to join it hehe

[Tyson.5160]

Yes> @Teratus.2859 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@perilisk.1874 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:If you look closely at the spell breaker traits and abilities you’ll notice it uses a lot of dervish skills.

Which is odd, since the lore paints them as being derived from Paragons...

I think lore paints them as former Sunspears, which could be paragon, dervish or any number of classes.

True, although I admit I did always find it a little amusing the order was called Sunspears but you didn't need to be a spear wielding paragon to join it hehe

Yeah I too found it confusing. Even the spell breaker who uses the spear tips as daggers are tied to Paragons, but use dervish skills.

[Perihen the Thawk.9527]

Personally I mentally fix the timeline stuff by just imagining that there are a handful of people who have tapped in to the mists and become "Revenants," but that they have all done it in different ways and weren't really on the same page about what they were doing before Rytlock made his dramatic entrance. So the only thing my Revenant learns from Rytlock/Glint is the Herald specialization specifically.

Since Ritualists were already a thing, this seems perfectly plausible to me.