Tips to fight against overwhelmingly strong guilds?

[Voltekka.2375]

Switch server.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Ironically the guilds you listed aren't tough to kill at all but quite easy. Easily killed with a group half their size, even with a pug group, provided the pugs understand the group they're fighting against. One has to understand typically how the group operates you're fighting, but also understand your groups comp make-up. The problem also isn't with commanders or a group of pugs that refuse to stick to a commander (it won't matter anyway when the enemy is double your size), the problem is groups still tend to engage the typical way.. buff up and run in.

This thread could easily go sideways into a match-up thread, but I'll give you a bunch of strategies that if you test them out against some of the groups you listed, you'll easily win, even with a pug group. Firstly there are some simple rules to go by: Necros are slow and easy to kill, as are meta backline revs; there is also no point in targeting or trying to kill a tanky front line, ever.

1) One of the listed groups typically balls up and runs in a straight light from one point to another. Cloud around them and target their tail; also target their necros 1st, then revs second. A group of 5 beat their 25-30 doing this.

2) One of the groups (depending on whose commanding) has their ranged or bombing classes typically swing to side just as their melee group engages. This group then bombs the main group on engaging. Cloud out and kill their bombing group; this can be done very easily, especially if a rev is carrying a banner. Also employ the same strategy as above, kill their slow tail. This commander will inevitably retreat back to SMC or a tower until the group is back. We had a group of 15 vs their 60 or so that out-killed them on each clash. Eventually they gave up and blobbed down towers. The other commander of this guild gets heavily irritated when their pugs die, and will often spend many minutes at spawn or their keep reading the riot act to them. So simple strategy, target enemies not in their guild and kill them. When they go absent, go take SMC or one of their T3 towers, as this seems to create some mass disorganization with them.

3) Look for the 1 enemy that routinely jumps so much they'd make a rabbit envious.. this is their commander. Exclusively target them, when they go down, the group will disperse. I used to run with this group and it was quite annoying when this happened. The group would quit on the spot once the commander was dead.

4) Another group, their commander is quite good, but the players that run with them aren't. Follow the basic rules, cloud around, attack necros 1st, and rev's second. Once they lose their damage, they disperse.

You'll often notice that large guilds typically still operate in the old school fashion of buff up, ball up, run in. They seem to forget that some classes are simply just slower than others. These classes will always lag behind the group creating a tail as the fight drags on, consider them easy targets. Also note that these guilds typically will never engage you when the numbers are even, so you can always try to bait them into a larger group, it has worked on numerous occasions.

For scourges to be even remotely effective, they have to run forward with the melee train and drop shades as they go. You'll notice this if you turn and run in the other direction, you'll see shade red circles dropped behind you. After a couple of them are dropped the scourge has blown their cooldowns, turn around and kill them as there is no chance they can get back to their group.

[shiri.4257]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:There are pug zergs.And then there are average guild groups.And then there are skilled guild groups.And then there are extremely skilled guild groups.

Naming a few extremely skilled guild groups currently active, in no particular order, that are tough to kill and relentless when they push (subjective according to what I've experienced, and not all-inclusive), we have guilds like:

• Violent Resolution (VR)
• Tempest Wolves (TW)
• The Black Tides (TBT)
• Giam Chye Cha Loti (AHMA)
• Contrast (CRT)
• Etc.

So my question is...apart from 'get good' or 'git gud' which will take time for all the other guilds to progress to that 'extremely skilled' stage, what are the tips to take on these guilds?Tips in the form of group composition, rotation, build, engagement strategies etc.Should we bomb them from range? Charge into them? Pick on their stragglers?What should less skilled groups do to stand a better chance against them? What are they weak against? What would break them or force them to retreat?

Wait til they disband to raid.

[Dayra.7405]

@Soxx.1264 said:Thinking any guild is good in 2018 :#

Thinking the current combat mechanics support good guilds anymore?

Thinking a top guild from 5 years ago would be still top with current combat mechanics?

[aspirine.6852]

@SloRules.3560 said:

@Hoon.1524 said:Just raid with 30+ like the top EU guilds do. They're so big, you barely notice the pugs and the gankers around them.

What? Are you delusional? Which guild runs 30+????? Not to mention you said, top EU guilds? No top EU guild even has 30 active people in a guild....

Perhaps Kill can come up with 30+, which makes them insanely hard to kill. Their name does do them justice in this case.

[Tyyphoon.5301]

Most efficient way to fight "supposed" top guilds is to:1) cloud with a quality core group (preferably players that are pvp-oriented)2) pin-snipe the driver3) both 1) and 2) in synergy

*Rinse and repeat til you are done farming them and they rage log for the night.

Cheerio!

[Hitman.5829]

Those guilds you mentioned are trash.I don't why why other people don't just get melee builds and run over them.People have rely too much on necro's pirate ship that they have forgotten that melee classes are the most OP in serg fights.

[Caliburn.1845]

You know, if you get run over by a larger, more organized group. Maybe the solution is to get larger and more organized.

"Sir it appears the enemy are all talking to each other in voice communications, giving them an unbeatable edge in combat.""Maybe we should communicate with each other in the same way""Sir, don't be absurd. We should just be able to beat them without any communications or organization, I'll ask the forums, all the best players who never use voice coms hang out there."

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@"Hiraldo.7954" said:TBT and CRT are dead, so you win by default there.

VR is the best guild on your list, they run sustain heavy and crack to constant pressure and corrupt spam. If nothing is dying try single target focus.

TW is [redacted so my post doesn't get deleted] goodn't, they run a bunch of zerk weavers that die if you breathe on them and a bunch of damage soaking potatos that dont do anything. Don't push into meteors in chokes and don't play their ranged game, instead either finesse their meteors, push straight through as fast as possible and sit on them, or just kill the weavers.

I haven't seen AHMA run closed in a while so I assume you're referring to Cookie's zergs? Unless you're a good guild the only way you're killing that is by also having a map queue and catching them somewhere that they can't find a choke to hold.

Hope that helps, you just have to observe what a group is doing and do something to counter it

They are both still active I think, at least I saw TBT run just a couple of weeks ago and CRT about a month or two ago when I was linked to their servers.Unless they both stopped recently =/

[Israel.7056]

The main problem with cloud is that it doesn't really work as an offensive strategy only as a defensive strategy. You might be able to cloud down an organized guild in a defensive fight but good luck taking anything from even a half decent guild group with clouding if the skill levels are even close to equal. Your best bet is to get organized and fight a guild group with another guild group.

[shiri.4257]

just bring another guild group. EZ game

[Hiraldo.7954]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:They are both still active I think, at least I saw TBT run just a couple of weeks ago and CRT about a month or two ago when I was linked to their servers.Unless they both stopped recently =/

Both guild leaders got busy with real life in the past few weeks, however TBT is sorta reformed as TBD with a different driver and I'm sure some of the CRT players will form another guild soon enough whether that be under the rQm name or something new

[LetoII.3782]

How salty are the kek readers rn?

Not even mentioned xD

[Shroud.2307]

@LetoII.3782 said:How salty are the kek readers rn?

Not even mentioned xD

Sometimes hard to see them behind the wall of pugs.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@LetoII.3782 said:How salty are the kek readers rn?

Not even mentioned xD

Sometimes hard to see them behind the wall of pugs.

ouch.

[hunkamania.7561]

what an honor to be on a list with such greats. salute

[sostronk.8167]

Join their guild and sabotage their efforts from within.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

There is a legitimate way with pugs and even numbers

The key is that guild groups will almost always run in a singular unified unit. The trick is to bring the fight to key locations that turn their movement against them

Start by having fights close to choke points. Set up ACs in the rear and bombard the choke point to prevent them from pushing, and siege up your towers. When they push for the siege, you have to counter push into their back line as they go for the siege. If they retreat it’s usually a faint because when they retreat they will about face to counter push into you... don’t fall into this.

If you see the retreating don’t chase them to far. Just enough to gain a better position...and by better position, I mean a position that will gain you access to thier back line. Higher ground on cliffs is a good way to get behind them again if they go to counter push your tail.

I’ve commanded against zergs like VR and we were able to defeat them with these tactics with pugs

[Israel.7056]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:There is a legitimate way with pugs and even numbers

The key is that guild groups will almost always run in a singular unified unit. The trick is to bring the fight to key locations that turn their movement against them

Start by having fights close to choke points. Set up ACs in the rear and bombard the choke point to prevent them from pushing, and siege up your towers. When they push for the siege, you have to counter push into their back line as they go for the siege. If they retreat it’s usually a faint because when they retreat they will about face to counter push into you... don’t fall into this.

If you see the retreating don’t chase them to far. Just enough to gain a better position...and by better position, I mean a position that will gain you access to thier back line. Higher ground on cliffs is a good way to get behind them again if they go to counter push your tail.

I’ve commanded against zergs like VR and we were able to defeat them with these tactics with pugs

There are several ways to beat guild groups in defensive fights assuming you have the luxury of upgraded things and lots of siege that actually gets manned and competent pugs but offensively this strategy simply isn't viable nor is it viable in open field. The best a bunch of pugs can hope to do against a superior organized force is try to stall defensively and not lose everything.

[enkidu.5937]

Maybe use the common tactics in WvW, that keep us in love with this mode for years now:

(A) outnumbering: hide in your castle and call the cavalry

(B) trolling: get some troll builds (aka high mobility and single-target burst), split up in 2 groups, let one group bait / kite and the other focus on one single enemy player, let the two groups constantly switch roles

PS: and pls make vid and post it here :p

[Dawdler.8521]

@Israel.7056 said:

@"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:There is a legitimate way with pugs and even numbers

The key is that guild groups will almost always run in a singular unified unit. The trick is to bring the fight to key locations that turn their movement against them

Start by having fights close to choke points. Set up ACs in the rear and bombard the choke point to prevent them from pushing, and siege up your towers. When they push for the siege, you have to counter push into their back line as they go for the siege. If they retreat it’s usually a faint because when they retreat they will about face to counter push into you... don’t fall into this.

If you see the retreating don’t chase them to far. Just enough to gain a better position...and by better position, I mean a position that will gain you access to thier back line. Higher ground on cliffs is a good way to get behind them again if they go to counter push your tail.

I’ve commanded against zergs like VR and we were able to defeat them with these tactics with pugs

There are several ways to beat guild groups in defensive fights assuming you have the luxury of upgraded things and lots of siege that actually gets manned and competent pugs but offensively this strategy simply isn't viable nor is it viable in open field. The best a bunch of pugs can hope to do against a superior organized force is try to stall defensively and not lose everything.What do you mean, I always yell "Just HOLD ON for 5 minutes ffs I'm getting this treb up to put poison on you." from the wall when I see a guild group approach.

[Kassablanca.5821]

" I’ve commanded against zergs like VR and we were able to defeat them with these tactics with pugs"in other word u blob them down with # if u call that tactics ok lol

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Israel.7056 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:There is a legitimate way with pugs and even numbers

The key is that guild groups will almost always run in a singular unified unit. The trick is to bring the fight to key locations that turn their movement against them

Start by having fights close to choke points. Set up ACs in the rear and bombard the choke point to prevent them from pushing, and siege up your towers. When they push for the siege, you have to counter push into their back line as they go for the siege. If they retreat it’s usually a faint because when they retreat they will about face to counter push into you... don’t fall into this.

If you see the retreating don’t chase them to far. Just enough to gain a better position...and by better position, I mean a position that will gain you access to thier back line. Higher ground on cliffs is a good way to get behind them again if they go to counter push your tail.

I’ve commanded against zergs like VR and we were able to defeat them with these tactics with pugs

There are several ways to beat guild groups in defensive fights assuming you have the luxury of upgraded things and lots of siege that actually gets manned and competent pugs but offensively this strategy simply isn't viable nor is it viable in open field. The best a bunch of pugs can hope to do against a superior organized force is try to stall defensively and not lose everything.

I mean your right, but if you really want to have a fighting chance your commander needs to know how to allocate your forces to pick fights that are more in your advantage. If your commander chose to fight a good guild in open field than you’ve already lost.

[Swagger.1459]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:There are pug zergs.And then there are average guild groups.And then there are skilled guild groups.And then there are extremely skilled guild groups.

Naming a few extremely skilled guild groups currently active, in no particular order, that are tough to kill and relentless when they push (subjective according to what I've experienced, and not all-inclusive), we have guilds like:

• Violent Resolution (VR)
• Tempest Wolves (TW)
• The Black Tides (TBT)
• Giam Chye Cha Loti (AHMA)
• Contrast (CRT)
• Etc.

So my question is...apart from 'get good' or 'git gud' which will take time for all the other guilds to progress to that 'extremely skilled' stage, what are the tips to take on these guilds?Tips in the form of group composition, rotation, build, engagement strategies etc.Should we bomb them from range? Charge into them? Pick on their stragglers?What should less skilled groups do to stand a better chance against them? What are they weak against? What would break them or force them to retreat?

How are we supposed to answer these when there are too many variables?

Teams run different comps, builds, and numbers all the time... and good teams switch things regularly depending on mood and opposition.

I could understand the questions more if this were narrowed down to 1v1 or 5v5 spvp AND teams were known to run certain comps, but wvw is a different beast entirely.

[meri.9187]

TW OMEGALUL