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Scourge makes PvP not fun.


Parlance.9584

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Title.I see a lot of threads on here saying "oh you can just avoid the circles!" The circles are literally the size of a point. Not only that, but they have a bunch of other tiny circles that they spread around the point to keep you from getting close to it.90% of games I play are predetermined by who has a scourge on their team, and if 1 team gets lucky and has 2 scourges on their team its game over.It's not fun to fight, and it's not fun to play matches around 1 class. It's the equivalent of that Bunker Rev build except you will actually die.

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@lysico.1297 said:I am p/p thief and own them.. Longbow ranger and rifle warriors can do the same.. This is a L2P issue Parlance.. Not a class problem.

I'm really surprised that people do not think that this class is broken and then complain about other classes. LB ranger does not do the same thing. It doesn't spread 7 conditions to the entire enemy team and make the point untouchable, neither do rifle warriors.I personally dont have an issue with scourges because I play an anti scourge build, but for the other 4 dudes on my team thats not always the case.Scourge is a low effort high reward class similar to burn guardian and I personally don't believe classes like that should offer anything to the team other than raw damage. If they have THAT much condition damage they shouldn't have the amount of zoning potential that they currently do.

If you have to specifically spec your build around fighting 1 class, then its a class problem.

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@lysico.1297 said:I am p/p thief and own them.. Longbow ranger and rifle warriors can do the same.. This is a L2P issue Parlance.. Not a class problem.

So if you're not one of those three things, you're fucked? And it's still a l2p issue? What counts as OP in your book? Dang.

Try playing a holosmith against the scourge and tell me that it's a fair fight. Two ticks of their condis and I die. Doesn't even matter if I'm trying to avoid their shades.

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Part of the issue is that every sand swirls also trigger all the vampiric auras/presence? So every " hit " come with a 70-100ish leech.7 hits per HUGE swirl, on top of the condis and other shenadigans means you also literally get juiced because of the mad number of hits that are landing almost instantly.

Putting some type of "Can't trigger more than x times per second" cooldown could help balance that tho.

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@lysico.1297 said:I am p/p thief and own them.. Longbow ranger and rifle warriors can do the same.. This is a L2P issue Parlance.. Not a class problem.

P/P does a good job at shooting them down when they arent on you however I've had some run after me with their circle around them and they would get me almost everytime caused me to lose quite a bit of confidence on p/p. When they play really aggressive they can take down a pistol thief. P/P thief should also be played very aggressivley.

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I find that a support firebrand can handle keeping condis off the team even if there are two scourges. Only issues I've found is that teammates don't always stay near me for the cleanses and i have to chase after them.

but: 5 condi conversion on resolve 5, 3 on resolve 2, 2 on mantra of lore, resistance on courage 4, and in addition, shout cleanses if you decide for extra cleanse.

it's bunker guard 2.0

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Until we get deathmatch youre kinda going to have to chase after your allies in random. Not wanting to stand in circles is understandable though atm. In deathmatch you can move as a unit out of aoes.

If youre confident in your ability to cleanse condis then tell your team beforehand. I havent reached that point yet with firebrand. Not having healers kinda helps end up in this chase people under pressure thing. They arent confident on relying on someone else to keep them alive.

overall im more happy with firebrand than dh because it gives opportunity for support. If I go guard I want to support and decap/rupt with shield.

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Im playing my power Reaper through this season and last Thursday (9/21) I worked my way up to T1 Platinum over the course of 150ish games. Since PoF I'm now about to be silver. Basically the other team gets a scourge and I'm dragging my team down by playing the class I enjoy the most. To remedy the situation since PoF i have taken every single Condi clear and transfer I can get my hands on.

Nothing works.

I have tried a few games with scourge and won quite easily. Button mashing the F skills isn't my style. I agree with the OP

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@lysico.1297 said:I am p/p thief and own them.. Longbow ranger and rifle warriors can do the same.. This is a L2P issue Parlance.. Not a class problem.

You use tab-target range to kill a class with 0 ranged defense. Very skillful and practiced indeed. The problem with Scourge is basically the same problem with Spellbreaker: if you aren't running the right build, you lose. Isn't a class/item/weapon is pretty broken when it forcibly shifts an entire game's established meta simply by existing? Not only that, but P/P thief dies to everything else regardless (and either loses rotation speed or cleave ability), and you'll never see another rifle Warrior again so long as Spellmeme stays as it is; so excellent argument, there. You're really going to gimp your team just to fight a Scourge?

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@Swagg.9236 said:

@lysico.1297 said:I am p/p thief and own them.. Longbow ranger and rifle warriors can do the same.. This is a L2P issue Parlance.. Not a class problem.

You're really going to kitten your team just to fight a Scourge?

I made it one game from plat on p/p before I started testing builds in ranked.. I dont think p/ps screw the team.

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@R E F L H E X.8413 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@lysico.1297 said:I am p/p thief and own them.. Longbow ranger and rifle warriors can do the same.. This is a L2P issue Parlance.. Not a class problem.

You're really going to kitten your team just to fight a Scourge?

I made it one game from plat on p/p before I started testing builds in ranked.. I dont think p/ps screw the team.

A meta build cruises to plat without effort. P/P isn't nearly as effective as other options, no matter how "well" you play it. You'd even be better off as Holosmith with Rocket Boots.

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@Swagg.9236 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@lysico.1297 said:I am p/p thief and own them.. Longbow ranger and rifle warriors can do the same.. This is a L2P issue Parlance.. Not a class problem.

You're really going to kitten your team just to fight a Scourge?

I made it one game from plat on p/p before I started testing builds in ranked.. I dont think p/ps screw the team.

A meta build cruises to plat without effort. P/P isn't nearly as effective as other options, no matter how "well" you play it. You'd even be better off as Holosmith with Rocket Boots.

I play pistols because its my favorite thief bar, I play gs mes because its my favorite mes bar (well i would play the pistol since I like it too but interrupts in this game are dissapointed).

I really miss my psychic distraction and mes being considered leet due to it. and happily having mes as main. PD would rupt through anything due to disable so it could possibly rupt through stability/block in this game (think basilisk venom) but a rupt that can stop someone from blocking his full duration.7Z8CGHb.png

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Update: I got frustrated enough to just make a scourge to see how easy it is. I copied a build online, didnt read a single one of my skills, and won a game while getting top damage.It's totally a L2P issue guys. /s

Update#2: I am constantly winning games with over a 200 point lead. Ive read my talents a bit. Still dont know what any of the sand spirit things do and I dont know what a shroud is

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:A Scourge alone isn't a problem because they die rather quickly. It's when players duo queue an auramancer tempest or a druid together with a scourge that the opposing teams needs to GG to save their time.

Or you can simply :
  1. Outrotate the combo
  2. Range focus targets

You clearly haven't fought a scourge + healer combo. There is absolutely no chance of winning.

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@Parlance.9584 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:A Scourge alone isn't a problem because they die rather quickly. It's when players duo queue an auramancer tempest or a druid together with a scourge that the opposing teams needs to GG to save their time.

Or you can simply :
  1. Outrotate the combo
  2. Range focus targets

You clearly haven't fought a scourge + healer combo. There is absolutely no chance of winning.

this isnt about 1v2....

Scourge is paper seriously getting any class Build it for Power burst jump on a necro and you can kill it before he even activates half of his abilities....

necros only existing defense in scourge is bassicaly 0.....they also cant realy run away from anyone......

just jump on a scourge with some condy cleanse and send everything in their face and watch it die in seconds.....

Scourge is the definition of Anti Bunker...... any class that relies on spamming a million of boons or classes that are build to win by Atrition will be melted by a scourge....

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I dunno guys... I will tell my opinion as a necro... Scourge is a hype spec, has a lot of AOEs and denial areas, it's the only way scourge can be alive.For 3 years Necro was the pushing bag of PVP, it was not able to 1 vs 1 almost any class... For 3 years we were 1 shot (or 2 shot) by Mesmers, guardians, ecc... we were not even able to 1 vs 1 a support Ele.... A lot of complains came from our end... we wanted defenses, blocks something that somehow make us stay alive...I think ANET made a big mistake when selected how the scourge works, in order to stay alive now we have area of denial meantime we can AOE condi bombs, mechanically means kill before get killed cause we still have no defenses what so ever.I don't really like the way it plays, but nerfing the mechanics of scourge would make it useless, it will be a necro staff without shroud we will be back to pushing bag perma dead state without shroud.I'm not defending scourge, far from it... I hate playing this defensive brainless game... I just can't see a solution, Necro is so squish that reducing damage of the condi bomb will make it useless since it HAS no defenses and already today any spike dmg can take us don't pretty easy.

Now regarding the counter play scourge: It has a lot of options, problem is that ppl doesnt want to adapt... Mesmer still can counterplay scourge pretty easy (even with all condi bombs) arcane thievery for instance every 25 sec + Disenchater 25Sec? plus shattering??? OMG !!! I won every 1 vs 1 against a scourge using this in a POWER F2P ACCOUNT!!!If ppl doesnt want to drop their blink or they portal or their utilities cause that what make Mesmer and Mesmer cannot lose their beatiful place in scenario as movement class.... They are being pretty selfish with their class...

Same goes for DH, I havent lost 1 match against scourge... and with several builds!!! Even Noob build I just using LB+ traps (Yeap full traps) you can melt a scourge... using focus when they use aoe denial on them and pulsing... Dead scourge...FB can clean so good!!! that scourge seems to be friendly to them, to win 1 vs 1 against a firebrand is really the game of transfer burn in the right time...Them you have Ranger annoying LB, Deadeye is nightmare for scourges,, they classes that suffers most is rev and eng... Eng (or holow) suffers even more against a power reaper build (we can melt holow) and Necro has always being a counter to Eng. Rev we can melt pretty easy...

For 3 years we had to get rid of our utilities to fight other classes trying to figure out how to overcome a problem of not having any defense... But nobody else wants to do... weird how the thing has only one side... For sure the meta will change and adapt to fight scourge, and it will balance the game again... Right now ppl are just not used...

What I'm afraid like always ANET (since nobody plays Necro) will nerf scourge to the point it will be unfeasible, just because they selected the wrong mechanics...

Summarizing... For me it's not a matter of nerfing it's a matter of wrong mechanics... they can't change the mechanics now therefore, they will kill the class...

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@Zoltreez.6435 said:

@Parlance.9584 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:A Scourge alone isn't a problem because they die rather quickly. It's when players duo queue an auramancer tempest or a druid together with a scourge that the opposing teams needs to GG to save their time.

Or you can simply :
  1. Outrotate the combo
  2. Range focus targets

You clearly haven't fought a scourge + healer combo. There is absolutely no chance of winning.

this isnt about 1v2....

Scourge is paper seriously getting any class Build it for Power burst jump on a necro and you can kill it before he even activates half of his abilities....

incorrect, if someone jumps on me while im scourge they're gonna die lol.

necros only existing defense in scourge is bassicaly 0.....

incorrect, we have butt loads of barrier

they also cant realy run away from anyone......

we dont run, we make you run

just jump on a scourge with some condy cleanse and send everything in their face and watch it die in seconds.....incorrect, you will die in seconds.

Scourge is the definition of Anti Bunker...... any class that relies on spamming a million of boons or classes that are build to win by Atrition will be melted by a scourge....incorrect.

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