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Ask WvW community for opinions before balance patches.


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@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:There are two far superior ways to go about it if you are going for input from players with experience:
  • Talk to primary commanders and guild leaders from guilds with some renown, those are not that hard to find and produce alot of the content in WvW
  • Actively engage in discussions and moderation with the community on the forums in a way where oppinion does not drench out argumentation

That's tough cuz those "renowned" commanders tend to look at wvw around their playstyle. Or much worse, they lead dead guilds. better off asking a pvx guild, same result.

They still produce content and others consume content, there is no playstyle from those who do not tag or take initiative to create their own content. If the guilds are dead they do not. Finding out who's alive isn't hard. All it takes is paying attention.

How will you establish which opinions matter from this select group of "renowned guilds and commanders?" give us a few examples.

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@Jeknar.6184 said:

@"Arctisavange.7261" said:If you wont set in any restrictions on from whom to ask feedback from then it will be the same "knife in the back stabbing" when the last time you guys made a poll and asked what to do with red borderland. The stabbing part was asking opinion from EVERYONE (that includes a massive PVE population who doesnt play WvW) and based on that made an unwanted decision that many regular WvW players were against.

I'm a regular WvW player and I voted to keep Desert Borderlands...

Same. In part because it's really pretty, the keeps are neat, and also because if we kitten like kitten kids all over their work, we'll never get other new maps in WvW.

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@"Arctisavange.7261" said:Nothing hard nor fancy:

  1. You make + apply a patch.
  2. You send an link/mail to ONLY WvW players who have achieved ATLEAST rank 1000 (rank number is up to you).
  3. Get feedback.
  4. Be surprised how many people actually are upset/satisfied with the patches applied.

Now WvW ranks obviously do not show overall class knowledge but it does restrict more clueless people in participating towards giving feedback. Atleast with certain fixated minimum rank you do gain the foundation knowledge of your frequently played class (or classes).

If you wont set in any restrictions on from whom to ask feedback from then it will be the same "knife in the back stabbing" when the last time you guys made a poll and asked what to do with red borderland. The stabbing part was asking opinion from EVERYONE (that includes a massive PVE population who doesnt play WvW) and based on that made an unwanted decision that many regular WvW players were against.

Oh who am i kidding..its anet..they dont ask opinions from anyone and make their very experienced class change decisions from ranger game plays.

That method would be redundant considering we have the forums.

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@"Dawdler.8521" said:So, uh... what would happen if the "WvW community" had their way instead? Hm, lets see...

  • Mesmer deleted
  • Stealth deleted
  • Dodging deleted
  • Downed state deleted
  • Revive deleted
  • Necro AoE deleted
  • All invouln deleted
  • Guardian staff 1 reverted
  • Siege deleted
  • Doors and walls deleted
  • New option to report dueling as abuse
  • WvW map cap reduced to 30
  • WvW now only allows guild raids

ANET pls hire this guy 10/10 patch

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Go look at the class forms nothing in the last few balance patches is ever close to what they want. There is no way anet is looking at its player base feed back.

That is part of the problem. No one who mains a class is ever (mostly ever) happy with a nerf.

It is always: nerf the other guy’s class because it’s OP. Constantly.

Rarely will you see a WvW post where the player who mains that class comes in and says: my class is OP. Nerf it.

Look at the past year. Each class has been hit by a significant enough nerf that hurt its inclusion in at least one of the Metas. An occasional buff has taken place to move a left behind class into the Meta.

And with all the complaints about condi, they toned it down, now people complain about getting one shot. Which again, when you explore some of the changes, is why some of these changes were implemented.

That why i always said on the class forms to only talk about that class not others as you cant go anywhere with that nerf every thing mind set.

You would not say ask pve players only (what seems to be what happens with most of the nerfs and buffs) as perma effects are ok in pve with out braking bosses but if you have perma effects in pvp or wvw your talking about game braking effects.

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I feel this is a bad idea since the community has mostly received the changes they asked for:

  • Zergs can move too quickly around the map - Desert Borderlands
  • The top corners of the alpine borderlands are useless - Desert Borderlands
  • Zergs can capture objectives too quickly - larger Keeps in Desert Borderlands
  • The borderlands should be a three way fight like EB - removal of keep waypoints after HoT
  • I want to zerg and don't have time to sweep for roamers - spotted
  • I want to zerg and don't want to upgrade objectives - auto upgrades
  • I want to zerg and not defend objectives - auto upgrades, watch tower
  • Roamers are annoying and shouldn't be able to capture larger objectives - increased lord HP to up TTK
  • Towers should control an area of the map - add walls to block roamers

I also don't like the idea to getting feedback from commanders and large guilds since this will make the game even more one-dimensional. It's already gotten to the point that if there isn't a tag or zerg most people log out. Other play styles need to be supported and encouraged.

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@"Dagger.2035" said:As for the balance patch, this was one of the best balance patches they've ever done. Just look at the bigger picture instead of a specific profession.

So every one should have all class level 80 then? Some ppl realty like to play one hero and not have to many alts. The bigger picture is a mess of a balance patches that did nothing but nerf every thing ever the buffs where nerfs it randomly added 10 target effects with out any though of the skills cd and effects and over all is trying to remove all of the randomness from combat also know as "fun" by most pvp players.

Anet intent of what they say they want dose not even come close to this balance patch.

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Anet doesn't have to ask the players for any advice what-so-ever. It's their game. They can do with it whatever they want and please. Just because you don't like something that they do to your character doesn't mean they have to bow down to you and listen to everything you say. What you don't understand is that they have a vision and a plan for this game and they are working to accomplish that within their means. Do they occasionally listen to what players are saying and take that into their decision making when it comes to balance patching? Perhaps, but then again it may not be exactly in the way you want it to be done because they are doing it the way they want to do it. It makes sense to them. Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it's wrong.

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@"oOStaticOo.9467" said:Anet doesn't have to ask the players for any advice what-so-ever. It's their game. They can do with it whatever they want and please. Just because you don't like something that they do to your character doesn't mean they have to bow down to you and listen to everything you say. What you don't understand is that they have a vision and a plan for this game and they are working to accomplish that within their means. Do they occasionally listen to what players are saying and take that into their decision making when it comes to balance patching? Perhaps, but then again it may not be exactly in the way you want it to be done because they are doing it the way they want to do it. It makes sense to them. Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it's wrong.

Honestly i dont give a crap about "my character", instead i do care a lot on how every change on classes impacts blobbing gameplay. You know, blobbing? The part that made everyone horny for this game mode in the first place.

Im also guessing youre a first timer to this game cause if youd play this game atleast for 5 years then youd clearly understand that their "vision" is the reason why many players have left WvW game mode over the years. Why? Cause of very poorly designed patches that have made blobbing gameplay fairly unenjoyable.

Heres an example of one of the most fun guilds from pre HoT with a reason added why they left.

23:05 minute mark if youre confused. Now take a guess what made good guild amongst with many others leave the game, eventhough a lot gave their very best to convert themselves into the "balance" patches.

Anet has no vision in terms of WvW. Even right now they gutted 2 support classes (scrapper + mesmer) which made them fairly handy in blob fights. They also added big ass cooldowns to firebrand support tomes which was one of the few counters against pirateship wars.But do you want to know who didnt get a nerf hammer? Scourges..they class that everyone has been shouting to get a nerf for long time.Scourges have ranged damage, tankiness, support (barriers) and with vampirism runes included- massive life leech. That class is the biggest reason why many equal quality blobs are pirate crapping like crazy or why one blob can 1 push another.

Son play this game mode longer and do atleast several years of WvW commanding frequently. Then come and talk to me again that anet has "vision" amongst with knowing what they are doing.

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@Arctisavange.7261 said:

@"oOStaticOo.9467" said:Anet doesn't have to ask the players for any advice what-so-ever. It's their game. They can do with it whatever they want and please. Just because you don't like something that they do to your character doesn't mean they have to bow down to you and listen to everything you say. What you don't understand is that they have a vision and a plan for this game and they are working to accomplish that within their means. Do they occasionally listen to what players are saying and take that into their decision making when it comes to balance patching? Perhaps, but then again it may not be exactly in the way you want it to be done because they are doing it the way they want to do it. It makes sense to them. Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it's wrong.

Honestly i dont give a kitten about "my character", instead i do care a lot on how every change on classes impacts blobbing gameplay. You know, blobbing? The part that made everyone horny for this game mode in the first place.

Im also guessing youre a first timer to this game cause if youd play this game atleast for 5 years then youd clearly understand that their "vision" is the reason why many players have left WvW game mode over the years. Why? Cause of very poorly designed patches that have made blobbing gameplay fairly unenjoyable.

Heres an example of one of the most fun guilds from pre HoT with a reason added why they left.

23:05 minute mark if youre confused. Now take a guess what made good guild amongst with many others leave the game, eventhough a lot gave their very best to convert themselves into the "balance" patches.

Anet has no vision in terms of WvW. Even right now they gutted 2 support classes (scrapper + mesmer) which made them fairly handy in blob fights. They also added big kitten cooldowns to firebrand support tomes which was one of the few counters against pirateship wars.But do you want to know who didnt get a nerf hammer? Scourges..they class that everyone has been shouting to get a nerf for long time.Scourges have ranged damage, tankiness, support (barriers) and with vampirism runes included- massive life leech. That class is the biggest reason why many equal quality blobs are pirate crapping like crazy or why one blob can 1 push another.

Son play this game mode longer and do atleast several years of WvW commanding frequently. Then come and talk to me again that anet has "vision" amongst with knowing what they are doing.

LOL. You have no idea about me at all. That's all cool. You can make all your assumptions you want. I have been playing this game for a while now, but even if I tell you that you won't believe me because you've already made up your mind about me. So all good. As I said, it is still their game. They can do with it whatever they want to do with it. They own it. Just because you don't like the way they are making their game does not mean they will stop everything they are doing and listen to exactly what you say you want them to do to the game. Doesn't work that way. They will do as they please. People can come on the forums and moan and cry about this nerf or that nerf, or how this is too OP or that is too OP. In the end it is up to their decision as to how they want to handle that. We as players cannot know in what direction the developers are trying to take this game. So by us trying to dictate what they should and shouldn't do without knowing where they are going with the game is asinine. Something we suggest may actually make something so over the top OP or so extremely nerfed to something they have in plans for the next expansion. WE do not dictate how this game should be. If you feel like what they are doing isn't in your best interest for playing, then by all means stop playing and go find a different game that matches more to your vision of how a game should be played. Or better yet, go start up your own MMO and then let every single thing all the players say dictate how your game goes and see how well it runs.

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@"Dawdler.8521" said:So, uh... what would happen if the "WvW community" had their way instead? Hm, lets see...

  • Mesmer deleted
  • Stealth deleted
  • Dodging deleted
  • Downed state deleted
  • Revive deleted
  • Necro AoE deleted
  • All invouln deleted
  • Guardian staff 1 reverted
  • Siege deleted
  • Doors and walls deleted
  • New option to report dueling as abuse
  • WvW map cap reduced to 30
  • WvW now only allows guild raids

Why not just ask for a 30v30 Conquest Mode? blink

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This post reminds me of the mesmer forum in pve, mainly the "they nerfed my class, ima leave the game"FB was nerfed. Necessarily? Maybe. Is it unplayable? Far from it. And please, please stop with the "but scourge, the bane of wvw, wasnt nerfed"I will remind you the increase of cooldown in all shade skills (50%), the Dhuumfire nerf, the big shade nerf (it had its cooldown from 10s increased to 30s). Did necro players complain? They sure did. Did they adapt? Yes they did. Because it all came down from mindless shade spamming to tactical big shade+shroud activation. Spam big shades, you wont have any to place during a bomb. Spam shroud, you will have to wait 30s to place it in a bomb. Hell, in current meta (pre 11-12 patch) necros didnt even take soulreap line, for the 20% decrease in cooldown of shroud skills.Spellbreaker also has WoD nerfed. Still necessary.Minstrel mesmer boonshare was nerfed. Let's admit it, that class combined with firebrand was heavy Boonspamming machine. Tome 3 had 42s cd, much less with conversion of chill to alacrity, so you could just spam spam spam (and that is why the game has scourges and spellbreakers).TL;dr you will adapt. Scourges did. Spellbreakers did. Apart from the class imbalances, wvw suffers (in my opinion, much more) heavily from population imbalance and the frustration that comes with it. Hope to see you on the borderlands!

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@"Hollywood.3490" said:Yes. ANet should definitely ask blobbing #metamorons for an opinion before releasing a patch.

Then a "no downstate week" comes and all the crying begins. People won't even engage in fights, because they're so afraid of losing.

Why should anyone ask this kind of players anything?

Those metamorons know far more then anet staff who only play rangers.

Are you playing in NA or something? In EU nobody stopped engaging when no downstate week was active, in fact people went more agressive with the gameplay.

Again "these kind" of players know far more then the numpties who are in charge of WvW department.

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@Arctisavange.7261 said:

@"Hollywood.3490" said:Yes. ANet should definitely ask blobbing #metamorons for an opinion before releasing a patch.

Then a "no downstate week" comes and all the crying begins. People won't even engage in fights, because they're so afraid of losing.

Why should anyone ask this kind of players anything?

Those metamorons know far more then anet staff who only play rangers.

Are you playing in NA or something? In EU nobody stopped engaging when no downstate week was active, in fact people went more agressive with the gameplay.

Again "these kind" of players know far more then the numpties who are in charge of WvW department.

Grade A opinions right here. As an armchair developer, I too would want to see these things.

D:

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@Arctisavange.7261 said:

Those metamorons know far more then anet staff who only play rangers.

Yup, sounds like the #truth... So how come none of them sit on the team nor have any track record in developing MMO games then? In fact most of them play from their parents' basements.

Are you playing in NA or something? In EU nobody stopped engaging when no downstate week was active, in fact people went more agressive with the gameplay.

Read the old threads about no downstate, where commtards are crying because their blobs are looking at each other for 20 mins until one of them gets one pushed...

So, coming back to my question... Why does ANet have to ask you anything, since you have literally no grasp of reality?

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