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A Note on Future Boon Direction


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@Lascax.2163 said:New equip stats will not fix that much.

The glaring problem is that this patch is incomplete at the cost of having us waiting a month before playing properly or worse regearing again.Also, this boon distribution will most probably make even more slots mandatory in the meta than before, but we don't know so let's have fun finding a new meta for just 3-5 weeks.

Why aren't the wells applied on 10 people?Why aren't the wells larger to avoid clunky movement?Why can't SoI just share Qck/Alacrity and stays like now for the rest of boons?

This patch was clearly done with the Episode release in mind, but now that is postponed after holidays ( justifiably, ANet Staff need to take this break ), this will leave us with a troubled and clunky gameplay unnecessarily during a period where most people have free time.All of this sums up as a clear lack of proper update planning.

If we talk about this its also really bad that 3 weeks ago we had the other sigil and rune update which lead to complete change of the stats which the chrono use this had cost them a lot of gold . The result every our 5 raid /t4 fractal main chrono players wants to quit or stopping playing support chrono.

I'm also not really happy about this I mostly player weaver sometimes tempest. Basically the update before the sigil and rune update(which increase cost) also nerfed my class and the one before that was an episode update which was full of bugs not to mentioned I had a hard time to get into weaver when it came out and I was overjoyed when sc made a built public with scepter and horn (which was nerfed with 11.12 patch). I never could get the 100% dps I wanted out of it but this is over anyway.

On top of it is like you said the game play as weaver is clunky like hell now ( +dps lose) . I also will reduce my time in this game now I had the feeling it is too much anyway in the last 6 months.

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How about a way chrono can be sure to maximize the SoI use? Before i could just look at my bar and my party's location and know 100% that i was giving them boons. Now i have no idea if they have been corrupted, out of range of my wells, or if i just messed something up. A skill that doesnt even provide the user with any sort of easy to read success/fail feedback is horrible design.

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@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Toward that end, we wanted to let you know that we’re looking at new attribute combinations for the coming year to offer you better options. You may want to watch for those updates before making significant changes to your gear.

Question: Will these new attributes be solely obtainable via Season 4 and/or Season 5, or will they become available to a wider audience?

Also, wouldn't this mean some roles cutting out dps to share their boons if the solution is solely new attribute combinations? Wouldn't it, instead, be more prudent to make other professions viable to playing a support role, so its less about gear and more about 'flavor of the support'? -shrug- I'm not a number cruncher so I dunno.

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So boonshare supports are dead? Is it just gonna be ten different dps classes, each bringing their own special class-related boon(s)?

If so, that totally sucks. I really, really enjoy playing support classes. But in order for it to be worthwhile to bring a support to a raid, they need to bring a lot of utility and boons. If not, they are just simply not as good as bringing another dps instead of bringing a support.

Whacking a boss until it dies just isn't fun to me. I'd rather handle challenging mechanics, make clutch saves/reses, and manage uptimes.

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Condi Damage (Major) / Expertise(Minor) / Conc(Minor) - Would be nice for Condi Chrono / Quickness FB to keep up damage while also providing boons. Closest to this currently is Seraph - Prec (Major) / Condi Damage (Major) / Conc (Minor) / Healing Power (Minor). This would also help niche builds such as Condi Boon Thief on specific raid bosses get some much needed boon duration from Detonate Plasma.

Power (Major) / Ferocity (Major) - Just the two stats, there are a few classes that can get Crit % via traits and something like this would allow those classes to utilise traits to increase damage at the sacrifice of a more rigid build

Power (Major) / Prec (Minor) / Conc (Minor) - Same as above but for power classes to be able to increase boon duration at the cost of Crit Damage

Condi Damage (Major) / Healing Power ( Minor) / Conc (Minor) - Condi Version of Harriers

These are some Stat combinations that I feel could give certain classes a much needed boost in Raid and Fractals while also not having dead stats to get a different combination

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The moment I have to run a 8-10 fixed build squad to raid comfortably, is the moment Im gone. Why does Anet have to do the same mistake as Blizzard and not LEARN from them when they fixed it years later?

At least stick to boon-grouping and stop scattering boons all over the place. For example, healer builds offer protection, regen, swiftness... hybrid dps-support builds offer might, fury, alacrity, quickness and all other boons are self-generated only.

And whats up with the 'this ability 10 man, that ability 5 man'... its horribly unintuitive and makes some builds extremely OP and basically unreplacable. Either all 10man or all 5 man.

Why make everything more difficult - to balance for raids, for fractals, for wvw, for pvp - it sounds like a job creation scheme on the shoulders of the playerbase, and thats REALLY not okay.

And no, dangling some MAYBE added stat combinations in front of us will NOT solve this.

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How about apologizing for trashing warriors again for the second patch in a row. Adjusting something that was relatively balanced in scaled warfare to appease small scale applications. Because they are too dumb to NOT hit the person in full counter. So they cry that its OP. Ugg. You guys made this change without considering the ramifications to your WvW players. Warriors since launch have had a tentative role in scale WvW fights and finally have a niche carved out for them. I can admit there were some unbalances throughout the process. But at this rate it is barely even viable. @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

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In the past maybe around HOT didn't different classes provide different boons and that proved unworkable probably because some boons are better than others so some classes again become required picks. Not to mention the fact that this means the latest balance patch is essentially incomplete and something the high end players across all modes are going to have to deal with for probably over a month?

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@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Zephyr.8015 said:New stat combos won't fix that fact you killed an elite spec.

They saved all other specs now firebrand renegade can shine

No they didn't. I am fine with each spec bringing something to the table. Here's what a lot of people from the posts I am reading aren't considering. Okay so you've killed boonshare chrono, now the others have to pick up the slack. Which means less optimal dps classes, less optimal boonshare classes. Diversity does not make things shine, it brings out niche builds for certain scenarios, which makes it harder on the community. Because now your rotations have less slack, have less room for error, which makes it HARDER on everyone. By all means I'd love to have Diviner's from Spvp into PvE. But it doesn't change the fact that you need classes like chrono to carry weight. I will use the example of Druid, there are better healers in game. The reason why Druid get's the preference is because they bring, boons, unique buffs, and heals. They had already nerfed SoI in a previous patch, and now a class that thrived on its boonshare ability in two gamemodes has been beaten into the center of the earth. ALL of this to answer ONE game mode, I will emphasize that ONE. And because Anet wont make a PTR for its player base to actually test things before release to actually see HOW incoming changes affect the game; instead they do crap like this.

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While I appreciate the increased communication, ANet's stated goal and stated plan of action are in direct conflict.

Stated Goal: "a world where various professions are specialized at offering different boons and not all boons can (or should!) be provided by a single profession."Stated Solution: "new attribute combinations for the coming year to offer you better options"

Currently, there is only 1 attribute that directly affects boons.... Concentration.Concentration just happens to affect ALL of a players outgoing boons, not just "specialized ones".

Your stated goal is to move away from stacking boon application duties on a few players, but your solution is to offer them more ways to get a stat that does the exact thing you are trying to stop?

If you are planning to change how concentration works or to add in a new boon related stat entirely that would be a whole different discussion, and this post doesn't make it sound like this is the case at all.

Wouldn't a better solution be to use Traits, Skills, Runes, or Sigils to accomplish this change? These solutions are MUCH lower cost and impact on your player base, and actually stand a chance at creating your desired outcome.

Confusion aside, thanks for the heads up.

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I play support druid and my friend plays chrono. We decided to play these two classes because we were tired of waiting on parties looking for them. I remember one late night we were posted in the LFG for over 45 min looking for a druid and chrono. I play at night so I'm stuck with trying to find other players at abnormal times. So now you are telling me that its going to be even harder to find groups because of the socialistic spread the love approach of boon play. I am trying my best not to be quick to judge but If I have to wait that long everyday it may as well be game over for me because I will not tolerate it.

There is the other side to this coin where you don't have to always have to use the "meta party" but that's not the way the culture has been set up in this game in particular so while in a perfect world random groups could work. However I don't likely see it happening anytime soon because most people will not event attempt to join a group if it appears the group does not know what they are doing AKA looking for the meta party.

Take it or leave it that's how I feel.

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@Blocki.4931 said:

@Meriva.4173 said:Wondering what kinda of boons necro's have to share :p

Is barrier and great utility not enough?

Only scourge gets barrier.

What about reaper or core necro, which have always been terrible in instanced content.

With the new nerf to crit damage procs, necro max dps has fallen below 29k. Without something significant, Anet might as well delete the class, and save people the trouble investing in one.

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we’re moving toward a world where various professions are specialized at offering different boons and not all boons can (or should!) be provided by a single professionIt's good you're trying to distribute boons between professions... BUT I have some err... thoughts, hope these will be useful.I personally like playing support classes, and I do want to play boon support role, I also like being a healer. What I don't like is playing something mixed, when I have to do dps, do a little heal here, a litle buff there, and maybe some CC and etc... So I'm asking you, pleeeeease don't make everyone a jack-of-all-trades, that will ruin everything!

Please try to think about people playing those classes. There are players like me who like being support, they like to feel needed and wanted in a group. And they choose (almost always) the classes that let them do it (like Druid for its heal, Guardian for its buffs, Mesmer for buffs/portals, etc). And that's the classes you'd want to make support oriented (I'm pretty sure I'm not reinventing the wheel here, I bet you know this). Not every class should be healing/buffing just because class mechanics will let it do so. As not every class should be dps oriented. This works for DPS classes too. By the way, when DPS-type people are forced to buff or heal they see it as a nuisance and additional work they don't like. This brings us to second point...

Maybe pick 3-4 classes that will have, like, really good and balanced support specializations (I mean balance between the support classes).Example: a class that has the strongest healing skills should get less buffs/CC. Class with good buffs gets less heals/CC. Class with good CC gets less heals/buffs. This distribution I see as fair one, where every class has its strong and weak sides and their roles don't overlap.

And maybe make a public poll on which classes/specs people see as support? Won't harm for sure

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@Zlater.6789 said:Can you throw us a bone and chuck us a free stat reselect by any chance? The last year or so has been very rough on support players, especially chrono players. Atm the only way a person can reasonably play support is with legendary gear, which I feel is pushing the gw2 game philosophy a bit far. Especially because right now its like, any random patch could totally make your favourite suppport professiom obselete and ruin the investment we've made into that profession.

I agree, I spend a bit of time recently getting stuff to build a support chrono and you guys broke chrono.Now half my equipement is pretty much useless on it now.

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Chrono(as other people said, any class) should not upkeep all boons for the full duration of a fight, BUT making classes upkeep only one or two kinds of boons will not solve the problems, chronos never wanted(or atleast this is how i see it) to upkeep all the boons in the game, back in the time with swiftness quick and alac+ some might was good, then people did not get carried by mesmer as they did when it shared every boon. Completly taking all the boon generation from mesmer is a bad idea, because the whole theme of the spec was designed around boons, so only 2 kind of boons doesnt sound that good, as lets say 4 or even 5. Changing chaos traitline and giving back mesmers the normal fuction of SoI would solve the issue of upkeeping 25 million kinds of boons whiel giving them the chance to do what they used to do.-- This whole text is IMO --

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@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:As you can see in the December 11 release notes, we’re moving toward a world where various professions are specialized at offering different boons and not all boons can (or should!) be provided by a single profession.

Question:

Do you intend to push towards the situation, where the raid (and fractal) composition has to run more support specs (and, consequently, less dps ones) than now, if they want to upkeep all the important boons?Is it also your intention to cause the raid composition to be more restricted, due to that?If so, why?

Also, if, as a result of your planned changes, the overall group dps will fall down, do you plan to rebalance the current raid instances?What if the efficiency drop will affect the average/below average raid groups more than the top tier ones (which is something that is probably going to happen, seeing as the changes you aim for are going to complicate the gameplay). Which groups will end up used as a baseline for future raid instances?

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Meriva.4173 said:Wondering what kinda of boons necro's have to share :p

Is barrier and great utility not enough?In a world where all the necessary boons are supplied by other support specs, yes. In a world where every important boon needs to be covered by a different support slot, not so much. Role compresion is a thing. If you need to have a support spec with boon A, and a healer, it's better to take a healer that can also give boon A, even if the heal would be worse, than take a better healing spec, but one that doesn't give any boons. One more slot for dps is worth more than a slight improvement to healing.

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Since you brought up boon direction, I think its time to just do a small boon rework on resistance

Resistance just does far too many things, and is far too powerful as a single boon. There's counterplay to resistance, absolutely, but the core mechanics of the boon are just broken. It simultaneously gives immunity to damage from all conditions, while also ignoring all soft CC from conditions, while also preventing all secondary effects from conditions (notably blind making one attack miss, poison decreasing your ability to heal, increased skill CD from chilled, slower attack speed from slow, weakness and vulnerability, taunt). All in all, Resistance, even though its a single boon, performs 3 wildly different roles, that are all very powerful individually. Its, quite simply a broken mechanic. Some of those roles need to be split off from resistance, possibly into a new boon. I see a couple viable options to bring this mechanic in line:

  • Have Resistance ignore all damage from conditions (and potentially also control effects), but no longer ignore the "secondary" effects of conditions. It still remains a very powerful boon, especially against condi builds without a lot of boon strip or corrupt, but at the same time doesn't completely invalidate them as they can still use poison/blind/immobility and it have an effect etc....
  • Have Resistance only ignore a % of the damage from conditions, without touching any of its other properties. Again, still extremely powerful boon, but the mechanic itself would be brought in line
  • Split Resistance into 2 boons. One ignores all secondary effects from conditions along with soft CC, and the other boon would only ignore the damage from conditions. The full effect are kept in game, but by splitting it into 2 boons, it allows you guys (ANet) to better balance skills that grant resistance as to whether their goal is to prevent damage from condis, prevent secondary effects from condis, or maybe a bit of both.

Other than that, just a general tuning down of how spammy boons and condis have gotten would be great to see, even though I'm sure it will never happen at this point.

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  • ArenaNet Staff

Thanks for the general feedback and thoughts thus far.

A quick clarification:

The addition of new attribute combinations does not mean that balance updates, re-works and other changes targeting boon diversity will stop.

We're not going to add either upgrade changes OR attributes combinations OR profession updates to offer those boon-centric playstyles as solid options.
We're going to do ALL of the above.

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