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The problem Apharma is there are many things related to this case.1- Mobility2- Aoe damage3- Cc4- Boons spam5- boons removal/corrupting/stealingI play Mesmer and I wvw I don't really spvp, and when I play with my holo friend, it goes like this. Our combination have the following things:Mobility, massive aoe dmg, cc and well good of both boons removal and some boons + some good condis (vulnerability + cripple).

Now lets say a warrior come having boons etc on him and have their endure pain (protection and stability is what we care for in our case), once these things goes, the warrior is just a toy if you removed shield block ofc (in before someone say dodge, too many things that needs to be dodged), and if some people try to rez and we have some of our skills not on cd and they don't have immunities, they will join the downed warrior or whatever class is downed ( and we are just 2)

Apply the same for firebrands etc.And don't get me wrong, there are many things that are literally silly in general, but some of them seems situational.Mobility is something that whenever it exists in a game, you need it or you need something to cover up for it.

there are like 5 classes that have the mobility, and even between them there is difference (mobility wise).

Sorry for the long post, now to answer the question but in a fast and simple way.Targets with boons = probably hard to killTargets without boons = probably easy to killthere are many situations which sometimes you will find it hard to deal dmg and situations where the damage is super high, let alone the situations where you can't deal damage.

And I will go with the damage is too high in general for both condi and direct damage

So many things needs to be fixed in the game but all I see is just more and more mess created.

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@Heartpains.7312 said:The problem Apharma is there are many things related to this case.1- Mobility2- Aoe damage3- Cc4- Boons spam5- boons removal/corrupting/stealingI play Mesmer and I wvw I don't really spvp, and when I play with my holo friend, it goes like this. Our combination have the following things:Mobility, massive aoe dmg, cc and well good of both boons removal and some boons + some good condis (vulnerability + cripple).

Now lets say a warrior come having boons etc on him and have their endure pain (protection and stability is what we care for in our case), once these things goes, the warrior is just a toy if you removed shield block ofc (in before someone say dodge, too many things that needs to be dodged), and if some people try to rez and we have some of our skills not on cd and they don't have immunities, they will join the downed warrior or whatever class is downed ( and we are just 2)

Apply the same for firebrands etc.And don't get me wrong, there are many things that are literally silly in general, but some of them seems situational.Mobility is something that whenever it exists in a game, you need it or you need something to cover up for it.

there are like 5 classes that have the mobility, and even between them there is difference (mobility wise).

Sorry for the long post, now to answer the question but in a fast and simple way.Targets with boons = probably hard to killTargets without boons = probably easy to killthere are many situations which sometimes you will find it hard to deal dmg and situations where the damage is super high, let alone the situations where you can't deal damage.

And I will go with the damage is too high in general for both condi and direct damage

So many things needs to be fixed in the game but all I see is just more and more mess created.

I know it's a really simple question and far too simple to do the topic justice but I wanted to simplify it as a way of giving the devs realistic feedback on how people feel about the state of the game. I'm glad you're willing to add context to your answer and I hope others will likewise follow suit as they may feel that damage is too high but also X, Y and Z so would like to make the context of their decision known.

Edit: My personal opinion is that damage is too high but so is healing, damage mitigation and cool downs to low, basically everything is too high which is warping the game considerably and why some classes are seeing big swings in roles and viable builds.

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Yes! I think it's way too high, I remember a time when being able to land a 11k+ Backstab Crit on thief was huge burst.. and it was much more enjoyable than the burst creep rn where almost every class has a spec which can pump out 20k+ burst combos every 10seconds or so.. Hell you can even burst with conditions in like half a second. STILL!

On a side note: I think everything is too high since PoF. PvP fights always boil down to who runs out of invuls/blocks/evades first (and there's a lot of it..), then the next burst oneshots.On the other hand as a result of the high dmg there are a lot of mechanics to mitigate dmg, which also enables extreme bunker builds, which is fine for WvW because you can support your team and you aren't a real threat yourself, but in sPvP it's just busted when a bunker camps a point and there's literally no way of decapping that point unless you zerg him down, which then allows the enemy team to control the rest of the map.

But I think every problem and every balance issue comes from the inability of the PvP balancing team to do anything if the PvE balancing team doesn't approve (unless it's tweaking the numbers, which helps a bit but doesn't solve the problem), which is bullshit. So I actually don't see a way for GW2 PvP to ever be good (again) tbh and after realizing this, I am actually thinking about quitting GW2 forever.Like the only thing where Guild Wars 2 has no real competitor in the current MMO market is an actual proper equalized and structured PvP mode and it is so badly balanced that it's just not really enjoyable :<And no one cares, it's just frustrating.

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@"Heartpains.7312" said:The problem Apharma is there are many things related to this case.1- Mobility2- Aoe damage3- Cc4- Boons spam5- boons removal/corrupting/stealingI play Mesmer and I wvw I don't really spvp, and when I play with my holo friend, it goes like this. Our combination have the following things:Mobility, massive aoe dmg, cc and well good of both boons removal and some boons + some good condis (vulnerability + cripple).

Now lets say a warrior come having boons etc on him and have their endure pain (protection and stability is what we care for in our case), once these things goes, the warrior is just a toy if you removed shield block ofc (in before someone say dodge, too many things that needs to be dodged), and if some people try to rez and we have some of our skills not on cd and they don't have immunities, they will join the downed warrior or whatever class is downed ( and we are just 2)

Apply the same for firebrands etc.And don't get me wrong, there are many things that are literally silly in general, but some of them seems situational.Mobility is something that whenever it exists in a game, you need it or you need something to cover up for it.

there are like 5 classes that have the mobility, and even between them there is difference (mobility wise).

Sorry for the long post, now to answer the question but in a fast and simple way.Targets with boons = probably hard to killTargets without boons = probably easy to killthere are many situations which sometimes you will find it hard to deal dmg and situations where the damage is super high, let alone the situations where you can't deal damage.

And I will go with the damage is too high in general for both condi and direct damage

So many things needs to be fixed in the game but all I see is just more and more mess created.

I see what you mean but my vote of "Yes" was in reference to straight raw damage, without anything else into consideration. It was this morning when I was running unranked after this recent patch and I really began to notice just how HIGH random damage off single attacks have become. I actually like a high DPS meta, but high DPS should be achieved through the use of combos, not random single strike attacks that can 1 shot people.

Last season or two, I felt the DPS was just about right, and I wrote a thread about it actually. I was pointing out to Arenanet that the high DPS meta seems to be something that most people enjoy because fights are faster paced, but the power creep in the DPS department needed to stop. The problem we are gonna start seeing forward of this seasons is that: When DPS keeps going up, the less important attribute tied defenses become, and the more important raw dodges/evades/blocks/invulns/stealth/sheer mobility becomes. The problem here is that the classes that are designed for the most burst are also the classes designed for the most dodges/evades/blocks/invulns/stealths/sheer mobility. So naturally with the increase of DPS over time, heavy things begin to suck and light things become awesome. The only way they can counter-balance this is by providing more and more and more access on certain classes to protection/resistance/stability/multiple sources of small life regens that stack, ect.. ect.. and it is apparent that they have already taken that route, which just leads to messy boon spam 100% uptime on everything, every class spitting every boon possible, and it just feels lazy and unengaging.

This morning in unranked, I was running a Bunker Druid. It was what maybe 3 games in a row I kept getting this Herald either on my team or against me. This guy was launching 1 shots on players with that Herald AoE damage pit, w/e that skill is "Herald is the one class I don't know so well." But I mean this guy was killing people with that 1 skill. He wasn't launching combos, he wasn't doing anything skillful. The guy was just walking to a node and dropping an ultimate damage pit under players and well, gg to anyone was CC'd at the time. I had gotten hit by it a couple times myself. He never downed me with it and I was still able to 1v2 as a Druid with this guy present, just by staying out of that damage pit, but that doesn't change the fact that this one single skill could deal enough damage to down a Bunker Druid who was caught in it, without doing anything else to follow up. The messed up thing is that this is an AoE skill, it isn't even some single strike that is complex to land or anything lol. Anyone on anything that was relatively squishy, would die nearly instantly to this damage if any sort of CC happened that they could not immediately stunbreak and escape that AoE. I reference this 1 skill because I saw it happening earlier, but there are plenty of other attacks in the game right now "single skill use" that is capable of straight 20king someone to the floor. And this isn't to mention how many classes are walking around slapping around auto 1s for 5k 6k. It's getting to be too much.

Probably would be a good idea to step away from the DPS power creep for awhile.

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Damage is way too high, but also the defenses are considerably high... If you lower the damage only, we go back to toilet bowl meta where nothing took damage and fights would just be 2 super high sustain trying to bore each other to death.

Everything needs to be trimmed down.

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Guys, it goes like this,damage is too high so we need high defenses.there is too much access to stealth so we need more revealsmany boonspam, so we need more boons removaltoo much condi spam, so we need more condi clears etc....there are too many cc, so we need more stun break/stabilityand it goes on ... same can be said when things are the opposite.

Don't take anything I just mentioned very serious or offensive, but this is one of the main issues as I see it. You can't just fix one thing and then wait 3-4months to try and make another change. I understand that some changes requires some observations, time and testing, but I do know that not all the changes are correct/good and not all of them people can say okay I will just play the class I like regardless of the changes.

Please do understand this and don't just agree or be happy/sad with any changes coz you don't like or like a class. I don't play revenant and when I do, I just play revenant for fun, but when Bruce Lee kick (phase something) was changed and considered as bugged (the out of range thing) I wasn't happy about it and glad it was reversed fast enough for the revenants.

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Damage can't be too high if fb is still able to survive for ages while focused by 3 dmg classes.

Not to mention soul beasts running around with perma protection and facetanking full burst combos, losing only 5khp~

That is exactly the reason why everyone runs burst builds because oneshotting people is the only way to get any kills through all this faceroll sustain.

Otherwise we would have fb+scourge fighting each other mid and mirages and soulbeast 1v1ing on sides. Skillfull and fun gameplay.

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@"Derenaya.3479" said:To high in WvW and To high/Just right (depending on profession) in sPvP.

This is the right answer. PvP is maybe a little high.. but probably not. If we had some of the tankier stat combos back, it'd be perfect IMO.

WvW is a different animal though. You regularly get autoattacked for half your health from 2000 range. Even when I'm running tanky stats (PVT, CVT etc.), I still eat 7.5k Long Range Shots or die to 3 hits of a quickness-unblockable-rapid-fire+air-proc+one-wolf-pack that has hit me before I can physically react even if I had perfect reflexes.

You regularly see Meteors 1-2 shotting squishies (although, I think this is fine. Meteor is a pretty balanced skill .. the damage is just really high)

You regularly see instant teleport combos packing a huge punch, like core guard or, rev oh sword. You also have classes running around without many of the pvp skill splits.

Just in general, PvP feels like "eh, yeah.. it's pretty bursty right now - maybe we could fix that". WvW feels like "I just got hit by a 15k what?".

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@dominik.9721 said:Damage can't be too high if fb is still able to survive for ages while focused by 3 dmg classes.

Not to mention soul beasts running around with perma protection and facetanking full burst combos, losing only 5khp~

Defense is too high, yes. That doesn't mean that damage isn't also too high. They're both way too high.

The class with the most health in the game is also the squishiest class (necro). because health is meaningless compared to the enormous amount of damage and damage avoidance

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Especially after the last last balance patch there are already quite many matchups amongst sidenoders which can stall for ages without a +1. Reducing damage further would just result in another bunker meta, which probably was the most frustrating thing ever in 6 years of GW2 PvP history.

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Damage is a bit too high, maybe 10-20%. But overall it's closer to where I want it than it had been in the past. I really don't want a return of Chronobunker or Hambow where combat is just boring, takes forever, nothing ever feels impact and fights just drag out for on and on and on.

I think what most people perceive as damage power creep is still the loss of tanky amulets like Soldier's and Sentinels.

When you look at fight duration it's pretty consistent with stuff like League of Legends.

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Been saying it is too high and that combat needs to slow way down, for quite a while now.

People are too simple minded to realice that lower damage does not need to equate to 2 hours fights, but right know range, condi and mobility is king has been for a long while.

This damage swing came about after "pros" whined that 2 bunker builds could not kill each other. Of course none of them play the game any longer and we got to deal with this mess.

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@coro.3176 said:

@"Derenaya.3479" said:To high in WvW and To high/Just right (depending on profession) in sPvP.

This is the right answer. PvP is maybe a little high.. but probably not. If we had some of the tankier stat combos back, it'd be perfect IMO.

WvW is a different animal though. You regularly get autoattacked for half your health from 2000 range. Even when I'm running tanky stats (PVT, CVT etc.), I still eat 7.5k Long Range Shots or die to 3 hits of a quickness-unblockable-rapid-fire+air-proc+one-wolf-pack that has hit me before I can physically react even if I had perfect reflexes.

You regularly see Meteors 1-2 shotting squishies (although, I think this is fine. Meteor is a pretty balanced skill .. the damage is just really high)

You regularly see instant teleport combos packing a huge punch, like core guard or, rev oh sword. You also have classes running around without many of the pvp skill splits.

Just in general, PvP feels like "eh, yeah.. it's pretty bursty right now - maybe we could fix that". WvW feels like "I just got hit by a 15k what?".

especially reapers who are able to really put on the pressure if they get you in melee range amiright? they hit real hard.

I personally voted its fine. Im concerned about classes with too much sustain and cc combined with burst. The reason Its so bad is because some classes have so much cc and burst combined.

Take our friend "The Warrior" tons of sustain combined with cc and dmg.Remember full counter? how insane is that? I found out that it had daze absorb dmg boon strip and condi copy towards enemies along with other stuff and its aoe and unblockable. That is just plain crazy how much stuff it had combined with dmg. If it was single target it definitely wouldn't be so nuts.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@"Derenaya.3479" said:To high in WvW and To high/Just right (depending on profession) in sPvP.

This is the right answer. PvP is maybe a little high.. but probably not. If we had some of the tankier stat combos back, it'd be perfect IMO.

WvW is a different animal though. You regularly get autoattacked for half your health from 2000 range. Even when I'm running tanky stats (PVT, CVT etc.), I still eat 7.5k Long Range Shots or die to 3 hits of a quickness-unblockable-rapid-fire+air-proc+one-wolf-pack that has hit me before I can physically react even if I had perfect reflexes.

You regularly see Meteors 1-2 shotting squishies (although, I think this is fine. Meteor is a pretty balanced skill .. the damage is just really high)

You regularly see instant teleport combos packing a huge punch, like core guard or, rev oh sword. You also have classes running around without many of the pvp skill splits.

Just in general, PvP feels like "eh, yeah.. it's pretty bursty right now - maybe we could fix that". WvW feels like "I just got hit by a 15k what?".

especially reapers who are able to really put on the pressure if they get you in melee range amiright? they hit real hard.

I personally voted its fine. Im concerned about classes with too much sustain and cc combined with burst. The reason Its so bad is because some classes have so much cc and burst combined.

Take our friend "The Warrior" tons of sustain combined with cc and dmg.Remember full counter? how insane is that? I found out that it had daze absorb dmg boon strip and condi copy towards enemies along with other stuff and its aoe and unblockable. That is just plain crazy how much stuff it had combined with dmg. If it was single target it definitely wouldn't be so nuts.

If you people actually learned to stow weapons and not make it proc ,how insane would that have been ? .Theres much worse damage around where the same doesnt apply.

Atleast youre free to mindlessly spamm around again.

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@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@"Derenaya.3479" said:To high in WvW and To high/Just right (depending on profession) in sPvP.

This is the right answer. PvP is maybe a little high.. but probably not. If we had some of the tankier stat combos back, it'd be perfect IMO.

WvW is a different animal though. You regularly get autoattacked for half your health from 2000 range. Even when I'm running tanky stats (PVT, CVT etc.), I still eat 7.5k Long Range Shots or die to 3 hits of a quickness-unblockable-rapid-fire+air-proc+one-wolf-pack that has hit me before I can physically react even if I had perfect reflexes.

You regularly see Meteors 1-2 shotting squishies (although, I think this is fine. Meteor is a pretty balanced skill .. the damage is just really high)

You regularly see instant teleport combos packing a huge punch, like core guard or, rev oh sword. You also have classes running around without many of the pvp skill splits.

Just in general, PvP feels like "eh, yeah.. it's pretty bursty right now - maybe we could fix that". WvW feels like "I just got hit by a 15k what?".

especially reapers who are able to really put on the pressure if they get you in melee range amiright? they hit real hard.

I personally voted its fine. Im concerned about classes with too much sustain and cc combined with burst. The reason Its so bad is because some classes have so much cc and burst combined.

Take our friend "The Warrior" tons of sustain combined with cc and dmg.Remember full counter? how insane is that? I found out that it had daze absorb dmg boon strip and condi copy towards enemies along with other stuff and its aoe and unblockable. That is just plain crazy how much stuff it had combined with dmg. If it was single target it definitely wouldn't be so nuts.

If you people actually learned to stow weapons and not make it proc ,how insane would that have been ? .Theres much worse damage around where the same doesnt apply.

Atleast youre free to mindlessly spamm around again.

But you can still use it as a defense tool right? I mean if you are low hp you can run away hit full counter, and anyone dumb enough to attack you, you can daze them then punish them for following you no?

I heard it was supposed to be used as defense.Wether or not I do not know.

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