Is damage too high?

[Mammoth.1975]

You can change the time to kill without changing the ratio of damage vs sustain at all, this thread is weird.

[Asum.4960]

They need to severely cut down the Damage and scaleable defenses.

Cut down blocks and invulns etc to max 2 seconds, lower damage across the board, look at Mirage, Holo and Soulbeast and just reduce all numbers by 50%.But seriously, I enjoy PvP a lot more when it's more strategy based rather than whoever chains CC/damage like a macro kills the other player in 3 seconds, with smashing a stunbreak+scaleable defense being the only counter.

[choovanski.5462]

took y'all a few years to realise this painfully obvious fact that I've been saying since HoT came out

pity anets glacial balance team won't fix it

[MyPuppy.8970]

Damage being high isn't a problem if there is very limited sustain/mitigation/engage/disengage. E.g. Reaper without support.Sustain being high isn't a problem if there is very limited offensive pressure. E.g. Mender sword weaver.

What is a problem are self-sufficient builds, negating roles and synergies between classes, having both sustain, resilience, damage immunity, mobility, and constant damage pressure with little downtime. Well, more than both actually. What is wrong are the All-in-one builds. sPvP isn't solo PVE story instance.

There is no balance if there is no trade-off. The Jack-of-all-trades master of all must stop. At this point the absence of trinity backfired. DPS specs healing from 10% to almost full shouldn't exist. Hard to kill specs being able to 100-0 someone in less than 10s shouldn't exist.

What is the point of playing as a group, comboing skills/traits with teammates, if anyone can just faceroll anything by himself without risk?

[Rouien.5234]

Been here since 2012 and barely played any of the PvE. All I did was PvP, it feels like everything now is just. It now feels like tons of people are being carried SO much more by their classes passive abilities; throw down CC/AOEs, faceroll while your passives do the work and just jump the person who forgot to spec resistance of some type of block, invulnerability or teleport. I remember back in the day people used to talk about how broken it was for anybody to be invulnerable to damage while still being able to deal it..

Now, it feels like if you don't run SOMETHING like that, you're just feeding the other team cause of how bad the power creep is.

PvP is fun in /VERY/ short bursts with friends but.. now it's so much different. I can barely stand half an hour with the toxic community and gameplay that enables it.

[Caedmon.6798]

No doubt it's out of control,were at the point where even Auto attacks need to be dodged,hur.I also think theres too much big range aoe spamm thats too easy to land for what it does and the damage it applies.But in general,theres too much of everything and people poop out boons left and right.Everyone (Not you nec sorry ) has a ton of mobility,theres too much sustain aswell on some specs.Theres just too much of everything and the carry factor is at an all time high.

[darwinslittlehelper.7182]

As per a suggestion from apharma.3741, I have copied the last part of my post from another thread as relevant:

I could go on about other things that I think are a problem, but others may not see it the same way . Full disclosure, I became pretty casual with PVP, and for a number of seasons have been uncaring of rank or placement. I am not a great player by any means, but improve if I play more. I don't afk or try to lose, and if I get tilted, I do something else. Not caring has become easier, because the same problems that has stuck pvp in this place have not been solved or mitigated.

To wit- Damage is too high. Defenses are too frequent. Condition clears negate most condition application too easily, invalidating most condition play unless multi- condi burst. Too many skills do far too much, for little cost of investment. Some defenses such as health investment have been massively overwhelmed by powercreep, while evades have become more powerful. Long chains of evading while doing massive damage should not exist. AoE is frequent, easy and ubiquitous. Many, many skills seem to have an AoE or cleave component, just because they do. These problems are not exclusive to Mesmer, but all professions to some degree. TTK is ludicrously short much of the time, and there is not much feedback on what exactly happened. Visual noise is a mess.

I have tried to interest others into PvP, people far more invested in this kind of competition than I, but I keep getting some version of what I wrote above. "great basis, good potential- what happened to this game? I would rather play …(insert other pvp) if they can't sort this out"

If ArenaNet wants the perception of PvP to change, they must be willing to make the big changes to professions and modes. Otherwise, the decline will continue, and the many, many people who could be playing PvP will not be interested.My two cents

[Chorazin.4107]

Always amusing seeing a game where everyone is watching for the 1 shot Rev. Where is the Rev, Ok hes on map inc now to point, he's going to bur.... we have a down! rezrezrez.

That and the general power creep, I should dodge that ability, and the next one, and the one after that, in fact they all hit for 6k so im just going to die as soon as my dodges run out.

[Arheundel.6451]

Outside deadeye able to stealth over and over when the burst fail...there is nothing else outside the ordinary , super burst should be an acceptable role and it's needed in the grand scheme of things to offset super bunkers and others.

People can learn to adapt to the situation and stop pretending that conquest is a deathmatch, you win games by outrotating the enemy and win fights that can be won if you can't beat something...move to other points, if you lose...better luck next time.

-LoS those burst specs and they will quickly run out of steam and flee-Ask assistance to your team if you can't handle the spec on your own-Change build/class when game start..there is something out there that can pressure/annoy those burst specs

Again and again, this is a MMO for casuals not a moba ....

[Chorazin.4107]

What super bunkers still exist? Seems all the bunker amulets are gone, you can get vit healing power on an amulet I guess is as close as you can get from an amulet point of view.

[Maddog.3716]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Apolo.5942" said:Been saying it is too high and that combat needs to slow way down, for quite a while now.

People are too simple minded to realice that lower damage does not need to equate to 2 hours fights, but right know range, condi and mobility is king has been for a long while.

This damage swing came about after "pros" whined that 2 bunker builds could not kill each other. Of course none of them play the game any longer and we got to deal with this mess.

Condi is king? Aside from Mirage and Scourge nothing are rocking condition damage. And Reaper is at the very least just as popular of a build for ranked as Scourge if not moderately more popular than Scourge. The reality is condition cleanses and conversion into boons are both extremely over tuned at this point. Most classes can quickly throw off 3-7+ conditions repeatedly over the course of a single fight, or have strong resistance uptime. Scourge and Mirage are the only condition classes capable of keeping up not because their condition damage is high (It's not. Scourge and Mirage are actually some of the lowest condition damage available) but because they have a wide range of conditions (Or in Scourge's case a wide range of conditions and boon corruption) that gives their conditions a chance to dodge condition cleanses entirely.

Condition damage has completely fallen behind Power Damage in the scheme of things. To put this into perspective; Condition Berserker, Condition Firebrand, Condition Weaver, and Condition Holosmith have the higher condition pressure. Far, far beyond what Condition Mirage and Scourge are capable of. But even putting aside other weaknesses in those builds, the single biggest weakness that prevents them from ever becoming meta is the fact that when every class can effortlessly throw off 5+ conditions multiple times a fight, the bulk of their damage being tied down into one or two conditions means their effective damage output is zero.

Arenanet really needs to look at both normalizing the spread of conditions, balancing all classes around 2-3 damaging conditions with more serious ramping power. And also heavily pulling back condition cleanses to compensate for it. Cleanses are the condition damage equivalent to protection. It's supposed to help you negate damage, but at this point unless you're a build that can shotgun 6 conditions at once your effective damage output as condi is 0.

Anet should nerf condition cleanses by 50%+ across the board then trim Mirage's condition spread and condense it into fewer conditions. Right now power damage is absolutely over tuned compared to condition damage 7/9 classes are exclusively running power on a meta level. Mirage is mostly exclusively condi and Necro run a 50/50 split of condi and power.

Your signature suggestions are terrible.

Strong post.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

Damage outlut is way too high. Content that used to be difficult is now easy.

A lot of technical bits of the game have basically been circumvented with more professions having more ways to shake them off.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

a couple of coefficients + low cds are at fault here, but mainly its ez 25 might and +damage % mods. I think this burst meta is turning a lot of ppl off to pvp since you cant learn anything when you die in 3 secs.

[Brendan.1309]

With Coordinated 5 person teams Damage is very high.1v1s can go on for minutes even if one person is running a glassy burst build because of all the evades, invulnerability, etc, in the game and someone might just decide they are going to disengage.

A lot of thought and consideration needs to be taken for people that duo queue FB/scourge.How much is damage lowered, is it flat across the board, is it just certain offenders?What is the new thing that ruins the game if the damage is lowered?

Are people going to complain no matter what?

[Durzlla.6295]

I think damage output is fine, but I love the very low time to kill.

That being said, I 100% understand why people would say it’s high, and wouldn’t be too upset if they lowered damage a bit, just as long as it doesn’t revert back to the glacial kill speeds that were the bunker meta.

[Ten.2617]

Mesmer killing in less than 1s is one example...

[Dreams.3128]

Tell me why gw2 has these jack of all trades builds, but then ele gets nerfed for that same exact reason.

This game is the epitomy of hypocrisy and favoritism.

[Emapudapus.1307]

@Rouien.5234 said:Been here since 2012 and barely played any of the PvE. All I did was PvP, it feels like everything now is just. It now feels like tons of people are being carried SO much more by their classes passive abilities

Not just passives, also easy to land, spamable, high dmg/sustain abilities.

The auto target of skill shots must go away in pvp. Dont know who thought this would be a good idea in pvp and why no one is mentioning it.

[otto.5684]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:Tell me why gw2 has these jack of all trades builds, but then ele gets nerfed for that same exact reason.

This game is the epitomy of hypocrisy and favoritism.

I do not think so. In fact I would access that GW2 does decent monitoring. However, the issue is 2 folds:

1) anet understands when something is over performing, but rarely understand why and do not measure changes. This is why you the same exact build nerfed or buffed 5-6 patches in a row.

2) anet ignores none meta builds/skills. I think the moto is: “if no one uses it why change it.”

And ya, damage is way too high. Not only cuz damage high, but cuz there are million CCs. If you get CCed and you do not have a break, you can literally be downed with full HP in under 2 secs from one player.

[pureskullz.7536]

back to core standards at least is all I'm asking even that wasn't perfect but compared to now it's just a masterpiece.

[Sygrial.9526]

The overall damage output is easily too high, which becomes very apparent in sPvP.

I consider myself a good support firebrand, but there is simply nothing I can do when I get CC chained and bursted by a holo and deadeye. No matter how high my Healing Power is, or how perfected my rotation, I will simply get deleted in a split second.

Unfortunately, this makes the game less about skill and reading the situation well, thereby facilitating distinctions between OK and good players, and more about running into a group fight and dropping whatever damage abilities you may have available.

[apharma.3741]

Nearly 300 votes, thanks for giving feedback, hopefully Arena Net is looking at this poll and taking notes.

[James.1065]

Is damage too high or HP too low?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

On some specs in comparison to others that’s a big yes!

[otto.5684]

@James.1065 said:Is damage too high or HP too low?

I would say HP is too low, but the result is the same.