To push far or not? That is the question

[Talzed.4153]

Basic assumptions. You are NOT playing thief (or an elite spec of it). You are pugging in ranked queue with no teammates. Home is accounted for. Do you bumblebee mid or push far?

[choovanski.5462]

it's really comp dependant. like if your team is you on engi and 3 thieves and a mesmer the best rotation is talking trash in map chat, or watching something on YouTube.

====

I would like to say 'in all seriousness', but that implies I wasn't being serious about my example. because I've actually had that team comp before. one time we were against a balanced comp with two tempests of all things lol. all was vain.

but yeah, rotations- especially the opening really depend on what you and everyone else is playing. like, if you're on menders firebrand in a DUO with a scourge- you are going mid 100%. pushing far is just dumb in that situation. but if you're on SpellBreaker that far push can be a really dope move.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

I loled a little.

But for me I push far. Few exceptions. But the whole things is pointless if your team is "silly"

Look at me go watching what I say so I don't get banned!

[Kuya.6495]

It depends how confidant you are that:

1. you can win a 1v1 quickly
2. if you get +1'd, how long you can survive it. ideal scenario is that they never kill you and waste 5 minutes chasing you around for nothing
3. if you can't do either of these, then another important thing is your willingness to let far go and rotate somwhere else where you can be useful

[BurrTheKing.8571]

If you win mid and home, there is 0 reason to ever push far. Far should only be pushed if it's clear you are going to lose mid or home.

Keys to easy wins:

1. Send someone either fast or tough home.
2. Call targets. Win mid.
3. Hold. Do map objectives as needed.
4. If 2 fails, run as soon as its clear you are going to lose. If you can only decap far that's acceptable because you'll still hopefully be matching them in points since player kills hardly matter.
5. Regroup and retake mid, if they are clearly better at team fights, try to draw multiple to another point with 1 player and win with numbers at mid. Repeat step 3.
6. Either have someone babysit home to avoid decaps, or someone near it fast enough to deny the decap. Everyone else should be between mid and home to rotate as needed.

Being a hero and going far is more likely to lose you the game if anything, ESPECIALLY doing it at the start and not telling your team. You just put your team down at mid and unless the other team is way worse you're probably going to lose. Sure, being really good and contesting far all game CAN win you the game, but why take the risk when you can just win mid and hold? Maybe at the top level this won't always work, but for the vast majority of players this will win you the match so long as you just don't flat out lose that first team fight.

[Daharahj.1325]

Considering that winning mid tends to snowball outwards, I'd never push far in soloQ.

[Kaga.7629]

if you're gonna push far on open, you have to have some kind of "awesome button". As a war, this is why i usually push far if i have rampage in my bar.Rampage is clutch enough to either force a null on the far cap, or allow you to overpower for a full cap on open.

[Akilles.4320]

Let's see, it's a solo/duo queue, you haven't the slightest idea wich builds your teamates play, one of them goes close, you go far and the 3 left go mid to face 4 enemies, considering the teams are even, your team will lose and it's 15 death points more the cap, the enemy team will split to +1 on you and most probably some will go to your close cap, being the result the minimum 2 caps and around 50/60 points ahead of your team, was it worth it?Next they will start to steamroll your team who think you're a fool for not helping them and that's another handicap. You will lose a huge majority of the fights, if not all.Always a much wiser choice to support your team at the mid fight in the start and cross fingers for the other team get there with only 3 xD

[HeadCrowned.6834]

It really depends on the comp of both teams. I play Druid, and mainly consider the following:

Pros to go far:

• You have someone on close, and your team is tanky enough to sustain at mid
• If the enemy team is tanky, it can become hard to decap them once they got a cap. Preventing them from capping their close can benefit ur team.
• If you can lure 2 enemies into attacking you when you go far, the rest of your team can get control over the rest of the map. So you do have to sustain vs 2 people, which is why often engi's, warriors, mesmers or druids can go far at start solo.
• If you can go far with a thief you can get the kill quickly on far, making the match 5v4 at that point in time.
• If the enemy team comp is much more teamfight oriented (necro's, eles, etc) you could choose to split far/close with your team at start.

Cons of going far:

• If I am the only support in our team, and we have for example a necro in our team, I tend to go mid. In that way you can give support to prevent your team from dieing, which is more valuable than holding a node neutral at far.
• If you fail to stay alive while going for far, you disbenefit your team already at the very beginning.
• If you play a profession that is most likely to lose a 1v1 versus the most likely enemy player that goes to their close, then just don't.

These just came up in my mind, but there are probably more reasons to go or not go to far.

[Noz.4650]

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:If you win mid and home, there is 0 reason to ever push far. Far should only be pushed if it's clear you are going to lose mid or home.

I understand the sentiment that people going far after they have a few respawns can be very bad in soloq, but there are a lot of reasons you would push far even if you have 2 points already. Depending on a lot of factors of course, but it can be one of the most effective ways to snowball a game.

[Crinn.7864]

Depends on how good you are. If you look at the players on the top of the leaderboards, pretty much all of them have a default strat of pushing far and trying to hold outnumbered, since holding far outnumbered is the best ways to hardcarry a match if you aren't a thief.

[sephiroth.4217]

I love pushing far because it can cause a snowball effect....

Take a bunker build, get to point before they can cap, wait for 2 more to come and then run away and double back repeatedly so they waste time until allies come for the gank / spawn camp.

Nhifel for example, when they come just run around the big rock there and double back to point, keep em chasin!

Even Legacy has it's advantages on far, just poke the lord and watch 2-3 people abandon mid to protect nothing lmao

[Master Ketsu.4569]

If you notice that you are in a low elo game ( meaning everyone on both the enemy and your team is silver when you are plat or something ) you can carry by soloing far. You then just destroy anyone who tries to contest it or spawnkill the other teams players over and over. This means the rest of your team now has the game on easy mode since they really only need to hold home and are often 4v3 since you are harassing far 1v2.

[BurrTheKing.8571]

@eksn.7264 said:

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:If you win mid and home, there is 0 reason to ever push far. Far should only be pushed if it's clear you are going to lose mid or home.

I understand the sentiment that people going far after they have a few respawns can be very bad in soloq, but there are a lot of reasons you would push far even if you have 2 points already. Depending on a lot of factors of course, but it can be one of the most effective ways to snowball a game.

I don't see a reason to attempt to snowball except to save time. I don't think it's possible to lose while holding two points unless you are totally ignoring the side objective. Obviously if you're losing mid and far is open you should run and get it, but other than that I see no reason to bother. If they push mid while you're far and get a fast down chances are you're going to lose mid.

[Crinn.7864]

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:

@eksn.7264 said:

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:If you win mid and home, there is 0 reason to ever push far. Far should only be pushed if it's clear you are going to lose mid or home.

I understand the sentiment that people going far after they have a few respawns can be very bad in soloq, but there are a lot of reasons you would push far even if you have 2 points already. Depending on a lot of factors of course, but it can be one of the most effective ways to snowball a game.

I don't see a reason to attempt to snowball except to save time. I don't think it's possible to lose while holding two points unless you are totally ignoring the side objective. Obviously if you're losing mid and far is open you should run and get it, but other than that I see no reason to bother. If they push mid while you're far and get a fast down chances are you're going to lose mid.

You take far in order to get the maximum point discrepancy between your team and the enemies. Only holding two is risky because it means that the enemy team only needs one good wipe to take the lead.

Also you go for far when the enemy team has respawns, this way you can get far without leaving your team outnumbered on other points.

[Omcrazy.4756]

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:

@eksn.7264 said:

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:If you win mid and home, there is 0 reason to ever push far. Far should only be pushed if it's clear you are going to lose mid or home.

I understand the sentiment that people going far after they have a few respawns can be very bad in soloq, but there are a lot of reasons you would push far even if you have 2 points already. Depending on a lot of factors of course, but it can be one of the most effective ways to snowball a game.

I don't see a reason to attempt to snowball except to save time. I don't think it's possible to lose while holding two points unless you are totally ignoring the side objective. Obviously if you're losing mid and far is open you should run and get it, but other than that I see no reason to bother. If they push mid while you're far and get a fast down chances are you're going to lose mid.

Highly mobile classes with good disengage and escapes can push far successfully. Usually decapping is all that is needed to get a +1 advantage elsewhere.

But slower folks shouldn't. And if someone does push far they should back off if they face opposition unless its a pretty clear win. Can't count the number of thieves or mesmers that push far and die to a warrior or guardian for no purpose. Just back off and rotate back, nobody is expecting you to 1v1 on a point. The slower Guard or Warrior or Necro will take time to get into the team fight which means you can be +1ing. Then circle back behind him to decap. Or he camps home and now you have a permanent +1 situation.

Similarly, I've seen slower guys (and am guilty of it myself) push far, start to decap, then get caught in a 2v1 that they lack the mobility or disengage to get out of. So not only do they give up 5 points for saving maybe 1-2. But they also give the enemy a number advantage.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

@sephiroth.4217 said:I love pushing far because it can cause a snowball effect....

Take a bunker build, get to point before they can cap, wait for 2 more to come and then run away and double back repeatedly so they waste time until allies come for the gank / spawn camp.

Nhifel for example, when they come just run around the big rock there and double back to point, keep em chasin!

Even Legacy has it's advantages on far, just poke the lord and watch 2-3 people abandon mid to protect nothing lmao

This.

Although it has disastrous side effects if your team is "silly".

Most common occurrence, we are losing/lost close and mid, I auto attack Lord and go to far, then 1v4 enemy at their own gate.

What does my team do while I am carrying the burden of taking on 80% of the enemy? Trash talk me in chat and duel off point.

No cap.Just "duel".Off points.I want to barf anytime I hear someone say "duel"

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

I left out the best part. This "duel" was against reds fifth man in the canyon between quarry and our gate.

It wasn't a duel.It was my team 4v1 stomping some poor guy...

Off point.While enemy held our close and mid.While I was the bastion of resistance at far.

Why is there no movie about my sacrifice in vain to "silly" players who don't deserve me?

[Hex.2579]

this is always the toughest question to answer. lol. because it varies a lot on your team comp and theirs.i like to cover the whole map instead of focusing on just 2 nodes home and mid. people always be like 'don't be greedy, just have 2 nodes and we'd win'. the moment you lose one of those 2 nodes and can't win it back, you're losing the match. it's always like that. and then they start blaming each other. lol.you have to rotate all 3 nodes and outsmart your opponents when it comes to strategies.

i usually go far myself cuz:

1. i don't trust my thief teammate to decap it, or +1 in places where he/she is needed.if i'm at far, then they could be more useful to +1 on other nodes, which in turn apply a lot of pressure on enemies. if they do any of those things at all. lol.
2. i'm ok with 1v2, or 1v3 (you don't have to be a bunker at all). i'd head far to contest it for as long as i can.don't feed them free meals. you may think it's only 5 points but it keeps them away. yes you're right, but every single 5 points build up every time you die at far. so there's no point in doing so.
3. if your team has more mobility in general compare to your enemies. i'd suggest push far and call it yours.normally people would try to get their home back no matter what, it's just a basic instinct, so they'll be very occupied there, leaving mid easily for the capture.taking their lack of speed boost into your advantage, you force them to run to other nodes which are further away, aka take them longer, aka your team earns more points in the meantime.
4. if you're on a map with side objectives like lords or beasts, tap the NPC to lure them there.if it's a beast, it's easy for a decap once they get occupied by the beast. then you can decide to stay for beast or the kill, or both. it's up to you.if it's a lord, they'd rush to their lord for nothing, leaving them outnumbered.
5. if you don't trust your teammate to get far, nor trust yourself to win a 1v1, stay mid/home. you could try but if you fail, it adds some trust issue on top of everyone and they'd just be blaming you cuz they lose the fight somewhere. lol. it's sad but it's true.

[Akilles.4320]

Wow! I'm amazed with how many super power far pusher's we have here, please by all means show us common players some ubber gameplay of yours on how to push far properly, dang!But of course when you lose (about 99% of the times!) The blame is of your team, impossible to be yours, aight!

[Zoltreez.6435]

@choovanski.5462 said:it's really comp dependant. like if your team is you on engi and 3 thieves and a mesmer the best rotation is talking trash in map chat, or watching something on YouTube.

i Laughed...

but on Low ratings and non rating matches <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<3 thiefs in your team is almost a free win thiefs literaly instantly blow up people left and right except when they are realy bad....

[PierPiero.9142]

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:If you win mid and home, there is 0 reason to ever push far. Far should only be pushed if it's clear you are going to lose mid or home.

Keys to easy wins:

1. Send someone either fast or tough home.
2. Call targets. Win mid.
3. Hold. Do map objectives as needed.
4. If 2 fails, run as soon as its clear you are going to lose. If you can only decap far that's acceptable because you'll still hopefully be matching them in points since player kills hardly matter.
5. Regroup and retake mid, if they are clearly better at team fights, try to draw multiple to another point with 1 player and win with numbers at mid. Repeat step 3.
6. Either have someone babysit home to avoid decaps, or someone near it fast enough to deny the decap. Everyone else should be between mid and home to rotate as needed.

Being a hero and going far is more likely to lose you the game if anything, ESPECIALLY doing it at the start and not telling your team. You just purt your team down at mid and unless the other team is way worse you're probably going to lose. Sure, being really good and contesting far all game CAN win you the game, but why take the risk when you can just win mid and hold? Maybe at the top level this won't always work, but for the vast majority of players this will win you the match so long as you just don't flat out lose that first team fight.

It depends on the class. Sometime i have found effective , if someone else goes to far, to let portal on the road to mid and disturb far at start. IF i see i can kill the enemy fast then i cap otherwise i look at the health bar of my team and if i can not win i go to help on mid with portal meanwhile i make them lose time capping far

[PierPiero.9142]

@PierPiero.9142 said:

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:If you win mid and home, there is 0 reason to ever push far. Far should only be pushed if it's clear you are going to lose mid or home.

Keys to easy wins:

1. Send someone either fast or tough home.
2. Call targets. Win mid.
3. Hold. Do map objectives as needed.
4. If 2 fails, run as soon as its clear you are going to lose. If you can only decap far that's acceptable because you'll still hopefully be matching them in points since player kills hardly matter.
5. Regroup and retake mid, if they are clearly better at team fights, try to draw multiple to another point with 1 player and win with numbers at mid. Repeat step 3.
6. Either have someone babysit home to avoid decaps, or someone near it fast enough to deny the decap. Everyone else should be between mid and home to rotate as needed.

Being a hero and going far is more likely to lose you the game if anything, ESPECIALLY doing it at the start and not telling your team. You just purt your team down at mid and unless the other team is way worse you're probably going to lose. Sure, being really good and contesting far all game CAN win you the game, but why take the risk when you can just win mid and hold? Maybe at the top level this won't always work, but for the vast majority of players this will win you the match so long as you just don't flat out lose that first team fight.

It depends on the class. Sometime i have found effective , if someone else goes to far, to let portal on the road to mid and disturb far at start. IF i see i can kill the enemy fast then i cap otherwise i look at the health bar of my team and if i can not win i go to help on mid with portal meanwhile i make them lose time capping far

if someone else goes to close, sorry for mistake