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Episode 5: All or Nothing Trailer Discussion.


Michram.6853

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@"Fenom.9457" said:It’ll probably connect to desert highlands, and if we get another deldrimor map right above it, we may connect to AscalonHonestly I can see it going either way. Thunderhead keep back in GW1 is pretty distant from any map we currently have. While the GW2 map is going to be much larger then the area I boxed(which is just the GW1 area) they will still have to do some large gap between it and Desert Highlands IMO. I also wouldn't be surprised to see parts of Ice Floe, and the Iron Mines of Moladune in this map.3wiI3Ua.png

I am admittedly kinda disappointed they are doing this now. I would have preferred the Deldrimor Front be more tied to a Primordus expansion because of the dwarves connection to Primordus.

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@"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:One thing I noticed-Caithe is there with us-So is Rytlock-Logan finally showed up with the Pact-We have seen Eir and Snaff's ghosts recentlyWHERE THE HELL IS ZOJJA? If not this episode she better show up for the final battle or holy pickles. This is THE big redemption moment for Destiny's Edge, even more then when they were all together for Zhaitan. She NEEDS to be there Anet, or else I will finally have to agree with one of those "missed opportunity" people, don't make me have to agree with those people!

Also, where are Marjory and Kasmeer? We see Rox and Braham, and hear Taimi and Canach.

Yeah, we need Marjory and Kasmeer so that we have ALL of Dragon's Watch ready for it to hit the fan. Makes sense since their recon of Kralky is over.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Fenom.9457" said:It’ll probably connect to desert highlands, and if we get another deldrimor map right above it, we may connect to AscalonHonestly I can see it going either way. Thunderhead keep back in GW1 is pretty distant from any map we currently have. While the GW2 map is going to be much larger then the area I boxed(which is just the GW1 area) they will still have to do some large gap between it and Desert Highlands IMO. I also wouldn't be surprised to see parts of Ice Floe, and the Iron Mines of Moladune in this map.

I am admittedly kinda disappointed they are doing this now. I would have preferred the Deldrimor Front be more tied to a Primordus expansion because of the dwarves connection to Primordus.

Well it's not like they're against creating gaps between maps while still having them physically connected coughVabbicough. But as to Primordus, I doubt we'll get a "Primordus expansion" and, in all honesty, I kind of doubt we'll be touching Primordus or Jormag again in GW2 unless ArenaNet is planning on keeping the game going for another decade.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Fenom.9457" said:It’ll probably connect to desert highlands, and if we get another deldrimor map right above it, we may connect to AscalonHonestly I can see it going either way. Thunderhead keep back in GW1 is pretty distant from any map we currently have. While the GW2 map is going to be much larger then the area I boxed(which is just the GW1 area) they will still have to do some large gap between it and Desert Highlands IMO. I also wouldn't be surprised to see parts of Ice Floe, and the Iron Mines of Moladune in this map.
3wiI3Ua.png

I am admittedly kinda disappointed they are doing this now. I would have preferred the Deldrimor Front be more tied to a Primordus expansion because of the dwarves connection to Primordus.

I can understand that. Personally I hate all this jumping around and not moving in a more linear progression through the World and unlocking maps by going through them from the previous, ala GW1. Whilst I will always rate GW2 over GW1 for gameplay, I preferred the more natural journey through the World in GW1

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Fenom.9457" said:It’ll probably connect to desert highlands, and if we get another deldrimor map right above it, we may connect to AscalonHonestly I can see it going either way. Thunderhead keep back in GW1 is pretty distant from any map we currently have. While the GW2 map is going to be much larger then the area I boxed(which is just the GW1 area) they will still have to do some large gap between it and Desert Highlands IMO. I also wouldn't be surprised to see parts of Ice Floe, and the Iron Mines of Moladune in this map.
3wiI3Ua.png

I am admittedly kinda disappointed they are doing this now. I would have preferred the Deldrimor Front be more tied to a Primordus expansion because of the dwarves connection to Primordus.

Unless we will find something on Glint AND Primordus.

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@Arden.7480 said:

@"Fenom.9457" said:It’ll probably connect to desert highlands, and if we get another deldrimor map right above it, we may connect to AscalonHonestly I can see it going either way. Thunderhead keep back in GW1 is pretty distant from any map we currently have. While the GW2 map is going to be much larger then the area I boxed(which is just the GW1 area) they will still have to do some large gap between it and Desert Highlands IMO. I also wouldn't be surprised to see parts of Ice Floe, and the Iron Mines of Moladune in this map.
3wiI3Ua.png

I am admittedly kinda disappointed they are doing this now. I would have preferred the Deldrimor Front be more tied to a Primordus expansion because of the dwarves connection to Primordus.

Unless we will find something on Glint AND Primordus.

Kinda hoping they use Season 4 to finish off Kralkatoric entirely, and in Season 5 Primordus reawkens due to the influx of magic thats going to get released from his(hopeful) death. I doubt Aurene will be able to absorb all of his + Mordremoths, Zhaitans, and Balthazars magic that Kralkatoric absorbed also.

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@Dante.1763 said:

@"Fenom.9457" said:It’ll probably connect to desert highlands, and if we get another deldrimor map right above it, we may connect to AscalonHonestly I can see it going either way. Thunderhead keep back in GW1 is pretty distant from any map we currently have. While the GW2 map is going to be much larger then the area I boxed(which is just the GW1 area) they will still have to do some large gap between it and Desert Highlands IMO. I also wouldn't be surprised to see parts of Ice Floe, and the Iron Mines of Moladune in this map.
3wiI3Ua.png

I am admittedly kinda disappointed they are doing this now. I would have preferred the Deldrimor Front be more tied to a Primordus expansion because of the dwarves connection to Primordus.

Unless we will find something on Glint AND Primordus.

Kinda hoping they use Season 4 to finish off Kralkatoric entirely, and in Season 5 Primordus reawkens due to the influx of magic thats going to get released from his(hopeful) death. I doubt Aurene will be able to absorb
all
of his + Mordremoths, Zhaitans, and Balthazars magic that Kralkatoric absorbed also.

Indeed. Given Vlast was not yet ready and Glint hadn't made her own direct move (if she even intended to, I'm a bit sketchy there), I remain sceptical Aurene is anywhere near ready to be absorbing anything but a portion of released magic.

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@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@"Arden.7480" said:

Is that Glint's head behind Aurene?

a reborn(deathbranded) Vlast

Doubt it. Vlast didn't leave a corpse behind to corrupt, he sort of exploded into a storm of crystals and even these crystals are resistant to branding so much so that they can be repurposed as weapons against the branded.

I don't think Kralkatorrik can brand his grandkids or do anything to creatures that are already part of him besides kill them. It was probably why he was so eager to kill Glint when he woke up. He couldn't "retake" her and she was preparing to ultimately take his place.

A plan we hope to personally see to fruition in her legacy.

The thing is Kralkatorrik resurrected the Shatterer as a death branded and the Shatterer shattered into a million pieces too.

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There is something that bugs me here. We all saw the visions from Aurene where, despite what future it was, Aurene just died. And now we are trying to find something that gives us an edge against him. If so... why wasn't that thing included in the visions? Either it was there and the end would be the same or we aren't getting anything that gives us an edge.

Also I'm not sure if we win against Kralkatorrik in the coming battle. I mean we just start to turn our full attention to him and he dies only 2 episodes after that? Aurene isn't ready to fill in his position now and if she can't then Tyria will be no more when he dies.I think that right now we are set up for a major loss. We are up against an absurdly powerful enemy who can turn into a giant storm and whose death will kill us all right now. We don't have the tools to harm him right now and the only being who can wound him is too young, too inexperienced and is probably traumatized after seeing her death multiple times. Also we are getting rushed to kill him right now without having the means to do so. The only advantage we have right now is the fact that we can detect where he will attack and nothing more. So yeah, defeating/killing Kralkatorrik in Season 4? Nope.

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Well it's not like they're against creating gaps between maps while still having them physically connected coughVabbicough. But as to Primordus, I doubt we'll get a "Primordus expansion" and, in all honesty, I kind of doubt we'll be touching Primordus or Jormag again in GW2 unless ArenaNet is planning on keeping the game going for another decade.Why not? We are about to kill Kralkatorik, the third Elder Dragon, and we will have done so 6.75 years into the game's life. At this rate, we will have killed all the Elder Dragons 13.5 years into the game's life.

-The original Everquest is approaching 20 years old and STILL getting expansions.-World of Warcraft is 14+ years old, still getting expansions.-Everquest 2 is also 14+ years old, still getting expansions.-Star Trek Online, a significantly less popular MMO, is approaching 9 years old, and they had one of the best years they have ever had, with plans for another two years at least already in the works.MMOs can live for a decade plus, so long as the developers don't do something god-awful to ruin them. There is nothing stopping Anet from going on to have GW2 last another 6-7 years. Hell, by the time LWS5 is done we will have gone another 17.5-21 months, at the minimum, with various holiday events, and inevitable delays, and the like it will probably be closer to two years. And I doubt LWS5 is the end of it.

@Walhalla.5473 said:There is something that bugs me here. We all saw the visions from Aurene where, despite what future it was, Aurene just died. And now we are trying to find something that gives us an edge against him. If so... why wasn't that thing included in the visions?Visions are limited by understanding. Glint mentions in her memory crystals that she couldn't see past her upcoming fight with Kralkatorik, and wondered if it was some sign of her death. But she couldn't see her own death.

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@"Walhalla.5473" said:There is something that bugs me here. We all saw the visions from Aurene where, despite what future it was, Aurene just died. And now we are trying to find something that gives us an edge against him. If so... why wasn't that thing included in the visions? Either it was there and the end would be the same or we aren't getting anything that gives us an edge.

Also I'm not sure if we win against Kralkatorrik in the coming battle. I mean we just start to turn our full attention to him and he dies only 2 episodes after that? Aurene isn't ready to fill in his position now and if she can't then Tyria will be no more when he dies.I think that right now we are set up for a major loss. We are up against an absurdly powerful enemy who can turn into a giant storm and whose death will kill us all right now. We don't have the tools to harm him right now and the only being who can wound him is too young, too inexperienced and is probably traumatized after seeing her death multiple times. Also we are getting rushed to kill him right now without having the means to do so. The only advantage we have right now is the fact that we can detect where he will attack and nothing more. So yeah, defeating/killing Kralkatorrik in Season 4? Nope.

I think the commander will not be so stupid to fight Kralk. I think the Commander's "insane plan" is to make Kralkatorrik leave Tyria, and we and Aurene will fly out of Tyria so we will rule him into the Mists.

Episode 5 will end with a cliffhanger with the Gods that will return and appear in front of the Commander and Aurene, and will save us from Kralkatorrik's deadly grasp.

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Glad more people are waking up to that whole "kill Kralk inside the mists" thing.

I called that half a year ago :sunglasses:

Jokes aside, I think that will play a big role. It's the perfect plot device too. The magic will be inside the mists, so Tyria isn't immediately blown up IF the magic is unleashed, meaning Aurene definitely doesn't have to absorb 100% of the magic. At the same time we will have a reason to meet "a new challenger", that will undoubtedly be drawn in by the insane amounts of magic just unleashed.

I wouldn't even count on the Gods to play a major role next season. Maybe we even meet an entirely new foe that wants to eat dragon magic, following us through the mists to get some more of that good stuff.

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@"Blocki.4931" said:Glad more people are waking up to that whole "kill Kralk inside the mists" thing.

I called that half a year ago :sunglasses:

Jokes aside, I think that will play a big role. It's the perfect plot device too. The magic will be inside the mists, so Tyria isn't immediately blown up IF the magic is unleashed, meaning Aurene definitely doesn't have to absorb 100% of the magic. At the same time we will have a reason to meet "a new challenger", that will undoubtedly be drawn in by the insane amounts of magic just unleashed.

I wouldn't even count on the Gods to play a major role next season. Maybe we even meet an entirely new foe that wants to eat dragon magic, following us through the mists to get some more of that good stuff.

Even if Kralkatorrik is killed in the mists, Tyria will be destroyed. The Elder dragons are linked to the world, basically pillars. 2 are destroyed and even if we make sure that no magic will spill to Tyria, killing Kralkatorrik without a suitable replacement will lead to the destruction of our world.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Fenom.9457" said:It’ll probably connect to desert highlands, and if we get another deldrimor map right above it, we may connect to AscalonHonestly I can see it going either way. Thunderhead keep back in GW1 is pretty distant from any map we currently have. While the GW2 map is going to be much larger then the area I boxed(which is just the GW1 area) they will still have to do some large gap between it and Desert Highlands IMO. I also wouldn't be surprised to see parts of Ice Floe, and the Iron Mines of Moladune in this map.
3wiI3Ua.png

I am admittedly kinda disappointed they are doing this now. I would have preferred the Deldrimor Front be more tied to a Primordus expansion because of the dwarves connection to Primordus.

But the map will also include the ice area barely north of desert highlands, which can be seen towards the end of the trailer, where the dredge is. That’s pretty close to connecting so I think they will

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@"Fenom.9457" said:But the map will also include the ice area barely north of desert highlands, which can be seen towards the end of the trailer, where the dredge is. That’s pretty close to connecting so I think they willThat is probably what we saw, still seems like it would be a big map, even for a recent LW map.

Probably something like thisATAzkTU.png

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Fenom.9457" said:But the map will also include the ice area barely north of desert highlands, which can be seen towards the end of the trailer, where the dredge is. That’s pretty close to connecting so I think they willThat is probably what we saw, still seems like it would be a big map, even for a recent LW map.

Probably something like this
ATAzkTU.png

That’s exactly what I thought, except maybe pulled down even more, to connect with desert highlands on the map too. Part of it can simply be map art between the two, of course. It is a bigger one, but not impossible

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@"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:Why not? We are about to kill Kralkatorik, the third Elder Dragon, and we will have done so 6.75 years into the game's life. At this rate, we will have killed all the Elder Dragons 13.5 years into the game's life.-The original Everquest is approaching 20 years old and STILL getting expansions.-World of Warcraft is 14+ years old, still getting expansions.-Everquest 2 is also 14+ years old, still getting expansions.-Star Trek Online, a significantly less popular MMO, is approaching 9 years old, and they had one of the best years they have ever had, with plans for another two years at least already in the works.MMOs can live for a decade plus, so long as the developers don't do something god-awful to ruin them. There is nothing stopping Anet from going on to have GW2 last another 6-7 years. Hell, by the time LWS5 is done we will have gone another 17.5-21 months, at the minimum, with various holiday events, and inevitable delays, and the like it will probably be closer to two years. And I doubt LWS5 is the end of it.

The main issue ArenaNet suffers when it comes to plot, is their apparent need to constantly make the next threat bigger and badder. For the MMOs you listed, how many others ceased to work because of this very issue? Or just in general?

MMOs can last decades. But that doesn't mean they will. However, this is besides the point. I was not arguing about how long GW2 will last.

And given that they already used "Primordus is active" as a plot point only to put him (and Jormag) to sleep all so that we can focus on a non-Elder Dragon thread, I think that's a sign that they're getting tired of the Elder Dragon plot. As such, I feel the next plot will not be Elder Dragon related. Besides, so far, we've always had a non-ED plot between ED plots; GW2's plots have been so far: Zhaitan -> Scarlet's "anti-Pact" -> Mordremoth -> Balthazar -> Kralkatorrik for major villains. It makes sense after Kralkatorrik will be a non-ED plot of some kind, one that, like Scarlet and Balthazar, will directly relate and lead into the next Elder Dragon.

Personally, I think that the DSD will be next, and the build up to introducing the DSD will be what Season 5 ultimately culminates to (while focusing on something else that may-or-may-not be immediately related). It makes sense for three reasons:

  1. Narratively, it's still awake and active, thus would get the biggest kick out of Kralk's death, and why waste the time and effort, and most importantly, the impact of putting Primordus and Jormag to sleep by just immediately waking them up.
  2. It had also gotten some of Mordremoth's magic (HoT end cinematic showed a quarter of his magic going off to the Unending Ocean, in the likely direction of the DSD) which should result in it becoming more active and moving about like we saw with Primordus and Kralkatorrik.
  3. Most telling to me is that we've gotten one "medium-sized" underwater update and a couple smaller ones, and - far bigger - there was recently some datamined aquatic weapons found by that_shaman, suggesting more focus on underwater content.

Hence my statement of "if Anet wants to keep GW2 running for another decade" for when we'll see Primordus. Because first will be, in my humble opinion, the deep sea dragon - but before that, a Living World Season that is non-Elder Dragon related. So we're likely to get a minimum of 6 LW episodes before the DSD plot, ergo another year to year and a half after Season 4's finale of Episode 6. Even if ArenaNet were to manage a 2 month cadence for every release after Ep 5, that's still 16 months before Expansion 3 and the earliest of the DSD's plot. Following the above, there'd likely be another non-ED plot after the DSD-plot before returning to either Primordus or Jormag, thus enter another 6 episodes or 12 months before the 14th month beginning a Primordus and/or Jormag plot. In other words, a bare minimum of 28 months after January 8th to the start of a proper Primordus plot, if my guess is right.

All that said, if ArenaNet has any intentions of making a GW3 instead of sticking to GW2, then after dealing with the Deep Sea Dragon in the above outline would be the perfect time to end GW2, since atm, Primordus and Jormag are non-threats. I am not saying this will happen, I'm just saying if Anet have plans for a GW3, then it'll be "soon " (by which, I mean, still a few years away).

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:The main issue ArenaNet suffers when it comes to plot, is their apparent need to constantly make the next threat bigger and badder. For the MMOs you listed, how many others ceased to work because of this very issue? Or just in general?Star Trek Online spent the first 6.5 years of its existence constantly upping the threat from minor regional problems, to battles for a quadrant of the galaxy, to a galactic war with a species whose technology the developer based around the phrase "indistinguishable from magic", and then culminated in a literal Time War whose end mission was literally called "Ragnarok" because of how apocalyptic it was. They only started ratcheting down the threat recently since they literally ran out of anything else to use until Star Trek Discovery, and the upcoming Lower Decks and Picard series came about.

Though they have leveraged the fact so many of the Galactic Alliance's forces have been destroyed in all these wars that they are comparatively weaker then the should to make enemies more of a problem then they would have otherwise.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:GW2's plots have been so far: Zhaitan -> Scarlet's "anti-Pact" -> Mordremoth -> Balthazar -> Kralkatorrik for major villains.I think this is something of a misrepresentation of the actual plot. Scarlet was just a minion of Mordremoth, and all of her shenanigans were leading to Mordremoth's awakening. Similarly, Balthazar was the focus of Path of Fire, but the real end threat was Kralkatorik, who Balthazar was trying to kill. Both were stepping stones on the way to the true villains, the dragons.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Personally, I think that the DSD will be nextI entirely agree. I have long assumed the DSD would be the next dragon we face for many reasons. Jormag and Primordus would be the last, with Primordus being the last of the last, for narrative parallel reasons with GW1.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Hence my statement of "if Anet wants to keep GW2 running for another decade" for when we'll see Primordus. Because first will be, in my humble opinion, the deep sea dragon - but before that, a Living World Season that is non-Elder Dragon related. So we're likely to get a minimum of 6 LW episodes before the DSD plot, ergo another year to year and a half after Season 4's finale of Episode 6. Even if ArenaNet were to manage a 2 month cadence for every release after Ep 5, that's still 16 months before Expansion 3 and the earliest of the DSD's plot. Following the above, there'd likely be another non-ED plot after the DSD-plot before returning to either Primordus or Jormag, thus enter another 6 episodes or 12 months before the 14th month beginning a Primordus and/or Jormag plot. In other words, a bare minimum of 28 months after January 8th to the start of a proper Primordus plot, if my guess is right.I was thinking more of

  • 20 months from the release of Episode 5 to Expansion 3(DSD)
  • 15-30 months from Expansion 3 to Expansion 4(Jormag)
  • 15-30 months from Expansion 4 to expansion 5(Primordus)

So, at minimum, another 4.16 years until Primordus. Or, at max, 6.66 years until Primordus, depending on if they do multiple 6 episode seasons between expansions again or not. This based on a rough average of 2.5 months between releases since Anet doesn't have the best track record of hitting every two months.

So, maybe another 20-30 living world releases, on top of the three expansions, before the game is done. Assuming they don't make a "Jump to Lightspeed" sized error and kill the game before then.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:GW2's plots have been so far: Zhaitan -> Scarlet's "anti-Pact" -> Mordremoth -> Balthazar -> Kralkatorrik for major villains.I think this is something of a misrepresentation of the actual plot. Scarlet was just a minion of Mordremoth, and all of her shenanigans were leading to Mordremoth's awakening. Similarly, Balthazar was the focus of Path of Fire, but the real end threat was Kralkatorik, who Balthazar was trying to kill. Both were stepping stones on the way to the true villains, the dragons.

In retrospect you're correct about Scarlet, but Scarlet was her own plot hands down. Before her introduction, she was described as being the Commander's "personal nemesis". She was the main villain of the plot. Her plot led into Mordremoth's, but she was not part of Mordremoth's plot. Hell, we can't even be sure that Mordremoth was ever even a part of Scarlet's plot since there was pretty much zero indication of any force-behind-the-scenes other than Scarlet herself with all those alliances and her antics. It wasn't until after Tower of Nightmares, when ArenaNet introduced the concept of seasons and had released everything that was in development when the playerbase boo'ed the living hell out of Scarlet's design that we got the whole 'Scarlet was being manipulated by another being' going.

And I would not say that Kralkatorrik was "the real end threat" of Path of Fire. Kralkatorrik was practically just a mcguffin for the Path of Fire plot, a simple device used to push the plot forward and nothing else. For all intents and purposes, Kralkatorrik could have been a non-living non-threatening object and it would change the plot not at all. Balthazar was the main villain of the Season 3/Path of Fire plot, no ands ifs or buts about it.

But as I said, the non-ED plots lead into Elder Dragon plots.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Hence my statement of "if Anet wants to keep GW2 running for another decade" for when we'll see Primordus. Because first will be, in my humble opinion, the deep sea dragon - but before that, a Living World Season that is non-Elder Dragon related. So we're likely to get a minimum of 6 LW episodes before the DSD plot, ergo another year to year and a half after Season 4's finale of Episode 6. Even if ArenaNet were to manage a 2 month cadence for every release after Ep 5, that's still 16 months before Expansion 3 and the earliest of the DSD's plot. Following the above, there'd likely be another non-ED plot after the DSD-plot before returning to either Primordus or Jormag, thus enter another 6 episodes or 12 months before the 14th month beginning a Primordus and/or Jormag plot. In other words, a bare minimum of 28 months after January 8th to the start of a proper Primordus plot, if my guess is right.I was thinking more of
  • 20 months from the release of Episode 5 to Expansion 3(DSD)
  • 15-30 months from Expansion 3 to Expansion 4(Jormag)
  • 15-30 months from Expansion 4 to expansion 5(Primordus)So, at minimum, another 4.16 years until Primordus. Or, at max, 6.66 years until Primordus, depending on if they do multiple 6 episode seasons between expansions again or not.This based on a rough average of 2.5 months between releases since Anet doesn't have the best track record of hitting every two months.

So why were you even arguing with my statement then, since even by your standards, ArenaNet would be needing to be intending to keep GW2 running for roughly another decade to go to Primordus.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:So why were you even arguing with my statement then, since even by your standards, ArenaNet would be needing to be intending to keep GW2 running for roughly another decade to go to Primordus.I think some wires got crossed somewhere. You originally made the claim that we likely wont ever fight Primordus due to how long it would take, and constant power creep, and my argument was that doesn't matter because MMOs can last that long. I admitted from the begining it would likely take a long time to get there.

Also, 4 years is less then half a decade, 6.66 years is only 2/3 of one. Neither are roughly a decade.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:So why were you even arguing with my statement then, since even by your standards, ArenaNet would be needing to be intending to keep GW2 running for roughly another decade to go to Primordus.I think some wires got crossed somewhere. You originally made the claim that we likely wont ever fight Primordus due to how long it would take, and constant power creep, and my argument was that doesn't matter because MMOs can last that long. I admitted from the begining it would likely take a long time to get there.

Also, 4 years is less then half a decade, 6.66 years is only 2/3 of one. Neither are roughly a decade.

I'd actually put your estimates even lower, the way Jormag and Primordus are set up would work well for a dual dragon threat, something like a "fire and ice" expansion.

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@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:I'd actually put your estimates even lower, the way Jormag and Primordus are set up would work well for a dual dragon threat, something like a "fire and ice" expansion.I generally don't buy into the idea that Jormag and Primordus's weaknesses are only each other. Every dragon should be weak to its opposite dragon, that isn't terribly unique. I suspect both Jormag and Primordus have weaknesses other then just each other, and likewise Zhaitan and Mordremoth should be weak vs each other, as should Kralkatorik and the DSD.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:I'd actually put your estimates even lower, the way Jormag and Primordus are set up would work well for a dual dragon threat, something like a "fire and ice" expansion.I generally don't buy into the idea that Jormag and Primordus's weaknesses are only each other. Every dragon should be weak to its opposite dragon, that isn't terribly unique. I suspect both Jormag and Primordus have weaknesses other then just each other, and likewise Zhaitan and Mordremoth should be weak vs each other, as should Kralkatorik and the DSD.

Never said it was about the weaknesses, I'm just saying it'd be more thematic than having separate fire and ice expansions. If they're willing to defeat a dragon in living world episodes I don't see what's wrong with putting two in one expansion. Besides it'd allow for more map variety, which is a criticism PoF has gotten.

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@"ugrakarma.9416" said:The post-Joko "good awakened" being part of the "save the world crew" is a nice touch. We have the pact, the Destiny Edge, persons from GW1-NightFall, the Sunspears. I'm curious to know who else more will come up, or if will be there more "famous ghosts" from the mists.

You know, this would be a good opportunity to get someone from Cantha to show up. Even if just for some "Foreshadowing", as I am 90% sure the next Xpac will be Cantha (at least I am praying)

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