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Suggestion: Dual Class instead of Elite Spec!


Hunter.2196

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I was thinking about the possibility that they could give us a dual class system instead of a new set of elite spec.Just for give you an example, I'm main warrior, but also really like necro playstyle, so what do you think if in the last spec traitline they give us the opportunity to put a core traitline of another spec and give us the relative utility skills?Maybe if i'm a warrior i can put "Death Magic" as spec and take all the minion utility so i'm basically a warrior/necro. What do you think? Personally i really love this idea!Sorry if i have misspelled something.

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This is what made gw1 great for playersThis is what made gw1 a hell for the devs

As said, combining classes gives great unique playstyles, but its almost unballancable

That said, it sounds like you didnt play gw1, which i can really recommend if this dualclassing is really up your lane. Also if you want to know the old story, which was so great :)

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@Ayakaru.6583 said:This is what made gw1 great for playersThis is what made gw1 a hell for the devs

As said, combining classes gives great unique playstyles, but its almost unballancable

ANet replaced dual-classing with a different balance issue. The way damage numbers are derived in GW2 (boons, the use of multiplicative numerical systems, large numbers on gear) guarantees that the best builds, and especially the best team comps, can deliver many time more effect than the less effective specs/comps. In GW, to create a build that was even close to that far removed from the better builds, one had to do silly things, like put all one's attribute points into Death Magic and Blood Magic, and slot skills solely from the Curses line; or put all ones points into Hammer Mastery and Fire Magic, and use swords plus Water spells.

So, yeah, adding dual classes to the train-wreck that is balance in GW2 would be a true nightmare, one that would make GW look like one of the better-balanced games.

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@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:This is what made gw1 great for playersThis is what made gw1 a hell for the devs

As said, combining classes gives great unique playstyles, but its almost unballancable

ANet replaced dual-classing with a different balance issue. The way damage numbers are derived in GW2 (boons, the use of multiplicative numerical systems, large numbers on gear) guarantees that the best builds, and especially the best team comps, can deliver many time more effect than the less effective specs/comps. In GW, to create a build that were even close to that far removed from the better builds, one had to do silly things, like put all one's attribute points into Death Magic and Blood Magic, and slot skills solely from the Curses line; or put all ones points into Hammer Mastery and Fire Magic, and use swords plus Water spells.

So, yeah, adding dual classes to the train-wreck that is balance in GW2 would be a true nightmare, one that would make GW look like one of the better-balanced games.

oh gods, I hadn't even thought about combining the gw2 and gw1 systems..the six be our shepherds, we won't survive that nerfing spree

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@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:This is what made gw1 great for playersThis is what made gw1 a hell for the devs

As said, combining classes gives great unique playstyles, but its almost unballancable

ANet replaced dual-classing with a different balance issue. The way damage numbers are derived in GW2 (boons, the use of multiplicative numerical systems, large numbers on gear) guarantees that the best builds, and especially the best team comps, can deliver many time more effect than the less effective specs/comps. In GW, to create a build that were even close to that far removed from the better builds, one had to do silly things, like put all one's attribute points into Death Magic and Blood Magic, and slot skills solely from the Curses line; or put all ones points into Hammer Mastery and Fire Magic, and use swords plus Water spells.

So, yeah, adding dual classes to the train-wreck that is balance in GW2 would be a true nightmare, one that would make GW look like one of the better-balanced games.

oh gods, I hadn't even thought about combining the gw2 and gw1 systems..the six be our shepherds, we won't survive that nerfing spree

Gather around, children, and let me tell you the tale... Of Smiter's Boon.

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It was fun back in GW1 and while it did caused some balancing issues, dual-classing also helped to address issues that are now prevalent in GW2. For example if one profession got buffed during balance patch, every other profession had access to skills owned by aforementioned profession (except for elite skills IIRC). This meant that even though the profession you played got hit by a nerf bad, it wouldn’t hurt you so much (like it is now in GW2) as long as it had some good synergies with other professions that weren’t nerfed to oblivion. So balancing was more about nerfing/buffing certain builds rather than whole professions.

Dual-classing could be a fun feature in GW2 and it could even work better than it did in GW1 if you were limited to swapping skills #7-9, however at this point it is probably too late to implement this feature. GW2 had to be created with this feature in mind, otherwise it would be huge hassle to implement it now. Just imagine weaver-engi full rotation :lol:

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@"Omernon.9762" said:It was fun back in GW1 and while it did caused some balancing issues, dual-classing also helped to address issues that are now prevalent in GW2. For example if one profession got buffed during balance patch, every other profession had access to skills owned by aforementioned profession (except for elite skills IIRC). This meant that even though the profession you played got hit by a nerf bad, it wouldn’t hurt you so much (like it is now in GW2) as long as it had some good synergies with other professions that weren’t nerfed to oblivion. So balancing was more about nerfing/buffing certain builds rather than whole professions.

Dual-classing could be a fun feature in GW2 and it could even work better than it did in GW1 if you were limited to swapping skills #7-9, however at this point it is probably too late to implement this feature. GW2 had to be created with this feature in mind, otherwise it would be huge hassle to implement it now. Just imagine weaver-engi full rotation :lol:

But i said you have to be core and put only core traitline of another spec, so basically you can choose only 2 core of your 'main' spec and just another core form another spec.Another one said, just put Shadow Arts on everything that can burst you, but i think only core guardian can one shot you, and if you use Guardian/Thief you lose some damage or sustain of the "full core guardian" just to get the stealth from the thief traitline. I think is a good trade off.

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First generation MMOs didnt give a kitten about balance. I don't understand why it's such a big deal. Throw lots of classes, lots of abilities out there, and let the players figure it out. That's the best kind of MMO. I really miss EQ up through planes of power sometimes....2002 was a great year.

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Would love the idea and it would make things really fun for part of the community. But it will be impossible to balance and all the issues from gw1 would appear. As fun as it might be short term, long term bad balance that would inevitably result in is probably unhealthy for the game.

@Einsof.1457 said:First generation MMOs didnt give a kitten about balance. I don't understand why it's such a big deal. Throw lots of classes, lots of abilities out there, and let the players figure it out. That's the best kind of MMO. I really miss EQ up through planes of power sometimes....2002 was a great year.

Problematic for casuals that cannot learn and make the build of the week, would create issues of fairness for PvP, creates miles of useless skills and more importantly lead most balance devs to the psych wards. Balance going out of wack is a black hole for devs and has killed a good number of games.

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The original Guild Wars utilised secondary professions. It was one of the most difficult things to balance. I'm sure you can find an interview with Izzie on this. It was one of the main reasons the developers chose to drop it for their second game. I would not bank on them ever making a return and, personally, I do not think this game needs it.

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I kinda liked it in gw1 tho from my experience the gameplay didnt change majorly from dualclassing as i used max 1 or 2 skills from off class.

Id like to see it in gw2 but then again i use more of the elite spec skills (both elites) for each one class i play and deff each elite's mechanic to a bigger extend than i did in gw1.

It must also be hella easier to balance since u always compaire elite specs with other elite specs and using multiple elites isnt a thing.

The most realistic we could see happen would be for elite specs to try and specialise each class abit to the other class' field of expertise (playstyle) which argueably might be already happening (minorly)

Personally id love to see guardian touch on warrior's field of buffing with banners (some kind fo spear weilding guard with banners would be neat imo)

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@"Hunter.2196" said:I was thinking about the possibility that they could give us a dual class system instead of a new set of elite spec.

Aside from this being a balancing nightmare and that it would kill the vast majority of kills and traits there are other practical problems.Let's say I'm a Guardian and pick Elementalist as my dual class and slot Air Specialization.

How is the Minor Adept trait, Zephyr's Speed going to work? The trait: "Move faster while attuned to air". is my Guardian going to get access to Air Attunement and permanently be attuned to Air?

How is One with Air, that reads: "Gain superspeed when attuning to air." how are you going to attune to another Element before going back to Air to get this bonus?

What's Fresh Air, that reads: "Recharge air attunement on a critical hit. Gain a ferocity boost when attuning to air." going to do?

Are you going to get access to all Glyphs and use only the Air version? What if I'm a Druid, will Inscription, that reads: "Grants a boon associated with your current attunement when you cast a glyph. Reduces glyph recharge." work on my Druid glyphs too?

There so many complications when adding a specialization from one profession to another.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Hunter.2196" said:I was thinking about the possibility that they could give us a dual class system instead of a new set of elite spec.

Aside from this being a balancing nightmare and that it would kill the vast majority of kills and traits there are other practical problems.Let's say I'm a Guardian and pick Elementalist as my dual class and slot Air Specialization.

How is the Minor Adept trait, Zephyr's Speed going to work? The trait: "Move faster while attuned to air". is my Guardian going to get access to Air Attunement and permanently be attuned to Air?

How is One with Air, that reads: "Gain superspeed when attuning to air." how are you going to attune to another Element before going back to Air to get this bonus?

What's Fresh Air, that reads: "Recharge air attunement on a critical hit. Gain a ferocity boost when attuning to air." going to do?

Are you going to get access to all Glyphs and use only the Air version? What if I'm a Druid, will Inscription, that reads: "Grants a boon associated with your current attunement when you cast a glyph. Reduces glyph recharge." work on my Druid glyphs too?

There so many complications when adding a specialization from one profession to another.

You can't use druid with elementalist air traitline because it should be put on your last traitline only, you can't be druid+ele but only ranger+ele; yes that will be hard to balace, but your suggestion is good, you spec air traitline, get glyphs as utility, but they can change how they work like "using a virtue you get a boost in ferocity" for fresh air trait. It's hard to do that's for sure, but not impossible, there are many solutions!

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@Hunter.2196 said:

@Hunter.2196 said:I was thinking about the possibility that they could give us a dual class system instead of a new set of elite spec.

Aside from this being a balancing nightmare and that it would kill the vast majority of kills and traits there are other practical problems.Let's say I'm a Guardian and pick Elementalist as my dual class and slot Air Specialization.

How is the Minor Adept trait, Zephyr's Speed going to work? The trait: "Move faster while attuned to air". is my Guardian going to get access to Air Attunement and permanently be attuned to Air?

How is One with Air, that reads: "Gain superspeed when attuning to air." how are you going to attune to another Element before going back to Air to get this bonus?

What's Fresh Air, that reads: "Recharge air attunement on a critical hit. Gain a ferocity boost when attuning to air." going to do?

Are you going to get access to all Glyphs and use only the Air version? What if I'm a Druid, will Inscription, that reads: "Grants a boon associated with your current attunement when you cast a glyph. Reduces glyph recharge." work on my Druid glyphs too?

There so many complications when adding a specialization from one profession to another.

You can't use druid with elementalist air traitline because it should be put on your last traitline only, you can't be druid+ele but only ranger+ele; yes that will be hard to balace, but your suggestion is good, you spec air traitline, get glyphs as utility, but they can change how they work like "using a virtue you get a boost in ferocity" for fresh air trait. It's hard to do that's for sure, but not impossible, there are many solutions!

So in other words you want every single trait and skill to be rebalanced in order to work with every profession. And if you get weapon skills as a Thief they will use Initiative and if you get utility skills as a Revenant they will use Energy. And Adrenaline for adrenaline skills if you pick Warrior. This whole thing is just madness

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Elite spec IS multiclassing; Elite specs graft other professions' playstyles into existing professions' mechanics and flavors. Changing that to "true" multiclassing means sacrificing each professions' uniqueness, making class selection not merely arbitrary, but meaningless. For example: there would be no reason to play anything other than Warrior, because it has the highest HP and Armor stats.

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i am afraid this will create less classes being useful instead of more... I could imagine how this make half of the classes obsolete since multi class Guard-Mesmer can be superior to Mesmer guard or how both classes end up be able to do the same.

on the other side hmmm its hard to say

anet could take a look at that and treat it like a class fusion Blue guardian portals who are similar to Mesmer portals but giving slight different advantages a short distance portal which cleanses conditions for example.

but this will be hard

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