New WvW ability track to combat stealth

[EremiteAngel.9765]

We've had target painter and stealth traps and marked reveals which is a good start but too situational.It doesn't solve the real problem of insane spike damage from stealth which allows for very little reaction time and makes for unhealthy gameplay.The main issue here isn't the damage, but that stealth attacks have extremely reduced tells and gives opponents very little reaction time.It is however easier for the damage to be reduced for stealth attacks across all classes and give some readily accessible counterplays, rather than to change the stealth mechanics for every class.

Give us a new WvW ability track to combat stealth.

WvW Stealth Mastery

1. Reduce damage taken from stealth attacks by 5% (3 ability points)
2. Reduce damage taken from stealth attacks by 10% (7 ability points)
3. Reduce damage taken from stealth attacks by 15% (10 ability points)
4. Stealth foes are revealed for 3 seconds when attacking you (15 ability points)
5. Gain a permanent sentry marked ability in a 600 radius around you that reveals stealth foes (20 ability points)

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Stealth is something that needs to be resolved independently from WvW features. Both the stealth and the Marked mechanics are too powerful and the issue itself (high uptime stealth) needs to be directly addressed rather than through indirect means. It is not fair to builds reliant on stealth to have such a strong counter as trivial as a cheap WvW rank that 95% of WvWers will have. This would be an overzealous bandaid solution to a class-specific issue. Thieves in particular would need to be properly compensated if stealth were ever to get any major hits.

[Zero.3871]

that would favor People with higher rank in wvw since other People,especially new one, wouldnt be able to skill that. and i think a pvp System should not reward Players IN COMBAT SITUATIONS for just playing longer than a new one. back in the days we had already ability tracks that grant you more stats and they got removed. so i doubt anet will create a new one.

[Kovu.7560]

I do feel stealth is a tad more potent in wvw than in pvp due to the increased space for mobility-based professions to work with and the fact that you're not spending the majority of the game trying to camp a circle.That said, I don't think stealth needs to be shot down in such a way. It already has plenty of counters, the biggest being the ability for attacks to track through stealth so long as they have been initiated before the target stealthed. (Actually I find that QUITE annoying while on my thief.)Other aspects of mesmers in particular need to be looked at but I don't think its really the stealth that's pissing people off. (For instance I'd feel a lot more vulnerable on my thief if I lost my maneuverability, rather than my stealth.)

If we're going to buff mechanics that combat stealth, buff the revealing effects on all professions to not require active targeting. (i.e. into a radius AoE) That would actually be a decent change to Sic 'Em on ranger for instance -- nerf the damage bonus for soulbeast but make the reveal an AoE.

"The main issue here isn't the damage" -- the spike damage might be the issue. Several professions have the ability to 100->0 even somewhat tankier characters and even if doing so requires full glass, traits and putting half of their bar on cooldown its still going to feel pretty lame and gimmicky to the player on the receiving end. I've said this before but I feel since the release of the expansions the bar between high damage fights and never ending sustain fights has grown on both ends. Its an unfortunate side effect of a game with more potent traitlines and lots of new stat combinations. Some argue those "one-shot builds" exist entirely to counter people who just want to tank all day.

I don't care if someone stealths around all day, but I do feel pretty salty when they two shot my marauder's gear. Mesmers, thieves, rangers and warriors are all in this particular boat.

~ Kovu

[Jeknar.6184]

So basically a WvW mastery line to give the middlefinger to thieves? After all, Stealth Attack is a Thief exclusive mechanic.

Pass

[bq pd.2148]

the more you give them to combat stealth, the more they gonna ask.

[cobbah.3102]

Simple solution just delete stealth ,not required in game. Happy New Year!!!

[Burnfall.9573]

@cobbah.3102 said:Simple solution just delete stealth ,not required in game. Happy New Year!!!

Not a simple solution but a critical solution to completely remove stealth in the game

[syszery.1592]

Great idea man. Let's also introduce the following: Ignore mesmer's clones, automatically counter full counter, disable Photon Forge, kill necros when gaze at them, remove boons on left click, stop projectiles like Neo in The Matrix, hit despite enemy tries to dodge, ...

[Mazreal Blackknight.1564]

I'm all for new stuff to spend my unused points on. I don't play stealth so won't phase me.

[DemonSeed.3528]

Lol this is a very one-sided skewed post XD, entertaining though.

[Warkind.6745]

Imagine if there was a WvW traitline that made a percentage of your attacks unblockable, or that gave you condition mitigation. WvW abilities shouldn't give such overt advantages in fights.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@Warkind.6745 said:Imagine if there was a WvW traitline that made a percentage of your attacks unblockable, or that gave you condition mitigation. WvW abilities shouldn't give such overt advantages in fights.

That would be true unless stealth was broken in the first place.If you see condition damage for example, anet compensated for it by introducing strong sigils/runes and tuning certain skills across most classes to enable them to deal with condition damage.Which is kinda why the meta is shifting more towards Power/hybrid builds.

The same can be done for stealth.We are getting more methods of reveals on skills but it is terribly insufficient.It has to address stealth across every class though and not just biased against thieves.It would be too much balancing to address stealth across every class, but it can be addressed via an external means just like how condition damage was address.

We could get it through sigils or runes. Or we could get it through a WvW ability track.Stealth was OP to begin with just like SOI boonshare was on a Chrono.We are just reigning it in to have more parity =)

[LetoII.3782]

Enough alreadyIf theif were half as godmode as it's portraid on the forums, there'd be more than three per side.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Says problem isn't damage of stealth attacks, proposes solution that reduces damage of stealth attacks. Alrighty then.

All sarcasm aside, I'd rather see something from the thief forums implemented; marked given to all classes, replacing reveal skills, and given to stuff like deadeye's mark etc too. Say a 10s duration on marked applied by players on an minimum of a 30s cooldown. That way it's not dependant on WvW rank, the more oppressive reveal skills (sic 'em, lock on) get toned down a bit so they're not just death sentences and stealth is still worth using (just harder to use, impossible to stack and heavily punishes taking too long), while also increasing the access to stealth counterplay to all classes.

I'm also not against the idea of new WvW abilities, nor do I mind having more counterplay to stealth. I just dislike the idea of making everyone mini sentries with no skill or player interaction involved. You should still have to land a skill or something in order to counter a game mechanic like stealth, trying to get it for free with no effort on the player's part is just plain lazy design in my opinion.

[Shining One.1635]

I'd rather see some solutions based around Veil Sight. The current Reveal based solutions are inconsistently effective, allow groups to capitalize on the effect (one person reveals, entire group sees target), and deny stealth attacks. Veil Sight options would only allow the player who builds for it to see the stealthed player. The stealthed player would still be in stealth, so they would be able to utilize stealth attacks and other stealth benefits.

[Warkind.6745]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@Warkind.6745 said:Imagine if there was a WvW traitline that made a percentage of your attacks unblockable, or that gave you condition mitigation. WvW abilities shouldn't give such overt advantages in fights.

That would be true unless stealth was broken in the first place.If you see condition damage for example, anet compensated for it by introducing strong sigils/runes and tuning certain skills across most classes to enable them to deal with condition damage.Which is kinda why the meta is shifting more towards Power/hybrid builds.

The same can be done for stealth.We are getting more methods of reveals on skills but it is terribly insufficient.It has to address stealth across every class though and not just biased against thieves.It would be too much balancing to address stealth across every class, but it can be addressed via an external means just like how condition damage was address.

We could get it through sigils or runes. Or we could get it through a WvW ability track.Stealth was OP to begin with just like SOI boonshare was on a Chrono.We are just reigning it in to have more parity =)

An on hit sigil that applies reveal would be a somewhat decent idea worth more discussion since it wouldn't completely negate the mechanic and would require the sacrifice of another beneficial sigil. Your suggestion is just asking for an easy mode against thieves and mesmers.

There is a reason Chrono wasn't balanced through WvW traits.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

Other because no, we don't need new complicated mechanics when easier solutions that don't require revamping entire traitlines have been suggested.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Why make it public?

[Jeknar.6184]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Why make it public?

Why not make it public?

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Why make it public?

Why not make it public?

It inherently includes bias. Most polls that are public are trying to get THEIR point across, not actually trying to poll the forum.

It was a question. You answered a question with a question, likely because it was directed at the OP?

[apharma.3741]

A thought.

Just a small thought.

It's really just a glance of an idea.

Maybe damage itself is too high?

Also someone will say it, yes sustain, boons mitigation etc is too high as well. It all needs toning down.

[Khailyn.6248]

While I like some of the earlier bonuses, I dont like the final one. Also if this did go into game I would ask for other effects that have been added, to combat stealth, be pulled back a bit.

[Solori.6025]

Why do thieves need this mega middle finger?

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

because thieves are obnoxious and broken.

Stealth needs to be removed from the game.