So I guess this is the meta now?

[RisenHowl.2419]

30% fb40% power Herald20% corrupt scourge sc/dag, axe/f10% weaver

Stay at 1200 range and chunk with heralds, push if they come into <900 range and run through with corrupt scourge and Herald on staff/jalis. Superspeed the parties with glint 5 before swapping?

No room for other classes =/

Loving the 16k+ hammer hits on 3k armor btw, feels good to play against.

[Trajan.4953]

Seems about right

[Hitman.5829]

And 0.001% warriors spamming /sleep on chat

[Xterra.6172]

it's been like at least since i returned to the game mid nov. just giant balls of minstrel guardians. it's the most snoozefest team fight meta i've ever seen as far as frontline goes. minstrel stats are broken.

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

[Zero.3871]

@Acyk.9671 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:30% fb40% power Herald20% corrupt scourge sc/dag, axe/f10% weaver

Where did you get those numbers? I almost never see more than 1 fb/grp, for heralds depends if comm plays melee or range, quite low percentile for scourge, allright for weaver.Where are the 20% of chronos/scrapper/spellbreaker/ (tempest) ? Last patch made them less useful but their role can't be replaced and are still needed in low numbers.

probably personal experience. but the true numbers are vary.i see most public zergs TRY to get something around:1 SB (WoD)/Chrono (Gravity + Veil + Focus Pull) + 1 FB + 1 SC + 1 P.Her. + 1 Ele per Group

Guilds also often use:Staff Daredevil for Backline pressure by Vault + Engis for Smokefields (Invis blast)

[Cqv.3710]

Is spellbreaker no longer meta? (I havent been online in awhile)

[Sleepwalker.1398]

Have to add a chrono in that lot for pulls and gravity well.

The boon application/share in those groups are unbelievable.If you are pugs, you basically have no/zero chance of beating a coordinated group like that and they will farm you over and over.Maybe there needs to be a better way to strip boons off otherwise you'll be killed if within 1200 range by hammers and if pulled then the shades and whatever is thrown will insta kill you in seconds.

[Arctisavange.7261]

The problem isnt the boons being applied. The real issue is ranged damage being way too damn high in group fights.We didnt have that trash in melee meta where everyone died from couple bombs and 1 pushes. Back then gameplay felt rewarding, more diversatile and fun due to the fights not ending in 30 seconds (like nowadays) cause of commanders "oopsie".I just dont get it why anet caters so much to ranged classes these days when out of all classes, playing melee was the most fun in zerging.

Everything just fell flat on its ass ever since HoT expansion came out.

[schokelmei.8271]

Because hammer stun train was so fun, right?

[SloRules.3560]

@gebrechen.5643 said:Because hammer stun train was so fun, right?

It actually was. But you know that was like first meta ever developed. Most fun one was Melee group + ranged dps + focus party. Than during HoT we have melee balls with 2-3 support per party, usually guardian, mesmer and elementalist, with other slots being berserker and reaper, which also happened in melee and had some really fun elements like blink stomps.

Now we are here, mostly range, over in 30s, with guilds it can be 1 shot.

[DemonSeed.3528]

Would you guys be more open to a faster changing meta, or something more of a dynamic middle ground (if there is even such a thing possible)?

[schokelmei.8271]

@SloRules.3560 said:

@gebrechen.5643 said:Because hammer stun train was so fun, right?

It actually was.

I really like Pizza more

[SloRules.3560]

@gebrechen.5643 said:

@SloRules.3560 said:

@gebrechen.5643 said:Because hammer stun train was so fun, right?

It actually was.

I really like Pizza more

This is first time i hear of a playstyle called pizza. Can you enlighten me.

[PeLi.5498]

(1 fb, 1 sc, 1 herald) + 1 sb / 1 chrono / 1 reaper / 1 conversion or supp engiAnd any weavers

[subversiontwo.7501]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:Would you guys be more open to /.../ more of a dynamic middle ground (if there is even such a thing possible)?Of course, that is what most would strive for. As always, balance does not have to be perfect, it just has to be tolerable. It's not the end of the world if ranged are better than melee if there is still the off-option to go melee.

The problem with the latest balance patch is that instead of seeing the obvious continued dominance of ranged tactics (despite the autumn balance pass that made melee a little bit closer to potential) is that they decided to nerf almost all the support classes that could enable you to push through shadewalls rather than adressing the broken stuff that has been talked about for a year.

That goes to the question of the topic at hand as well, this isn't a new meta by any stretch, it's the same meta that has existed for all of PoF. The FB being the primary support class sprinkled with a few Scrappers and Chronos for their utilities and then coupled with a majority of Scourges and Revs sprinkled with a few SB and Eles for their utility. The other classes are either occassionally played by players who can handle them or used as less useful outliers (the same in general could be said for the more commonly sprinkled classes, the least experienced players tend not to play them but they are at least a little bit more user-friendly than the rare occassions when you see eg., Daredevils used effectively). The only minute differences may be the balance between the popular classes as you've occassionally seen varying numbers of Scourges, Revs and Spellbreakers. As always with meta though, it's not a question of best performance it's a question of easiest performance. That is easily seen by when a squad has an effective DD detachment or when they support their SB more effectively so bubbles come surprising and the SB gets out, they do tend to beat the simpler meta-ships.

[schokelmei.8271]

@SloRules.3560 said:

@gebrechen.5643 said:

@SloRules.3560 said:

@gebrechen.5643 said:Because hammer stun train was so fun, right?

It actually was.

I really like Pizza more

This is first time i hear of a playstyle called pizza. Can you enlighten me.

It's a matter of what you like. Hammer meta wasn't more skilled than condi meta or the current meta. It's not a question about skill, it's a question of preferred playstyle. End of story. please leave a subscription.

[Lonecap.4105]

@ruwani.8624 said:Is spellbreaker no longer meta? (I havent been online in awhile)

It's still used, but honestly it's no longer needed.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@gebrechen.5643 said:It's a matter of what you like. Hammer meta wasn't more skilled than condi meta or the current meta. It's not a question about skill, it's a question of preferred playstyle. End of story. please leave a subscription.The issue with the metas has never been skill. The issue has always been that content creators like melee and content consumers like ranged metas. That is, in part, why we see fewer and fewer leaders with more and more followers.

Also, a melee meta always have room for ranged classes to bomb on the balls with relative ease. Playing havoc-styled melee in a range meta is much more difficult and as such out of the meta since meta is about ease of use.

So a ranged meta does not only cater to anonymous players at the expense of commanders but is also overall more divisive and less class-inclusive.

[apharma.3741]

Now? Been like this for a while.

Welcome to the power creep, where the pace of the game goes up because everything does more. You go down faster, you die faster, damage is higher, healing is higher, cleansing is higher, damage reduction is higher blah blah blah.

[aspirine.6852]

@gebrechen.5643 said:Because hammer stun train was so fun, right?

It was more fun than the scourge train :/

[Lahmia.2193]

@aspirine.6852 said:

@gebrechen.5643 said:Because hammer stun train was so fun, right?

It was more fun than the scourge train :/

At least with scourge train, non super tanky stats were viable. Being able to run more glassy stats and actually do damage was preferable to that wetnoodle meta.

[schokelmei.8271]

@aspirine.6852 said:

@gebrechen.5643 said:Because hammer stun train was so fun, right?

It was more fun than the scourge train :/

I disagree. Way less builds were viable.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Hammer train > Pirate ship, because the later relies on waiting for the opposition to fall asleep or do something else more productive with their lives. This is espeically true when you have a bunch of people just camping chokes.

That being said, nothing will always be as trash as the HoT meta, in any form.

[SkyShroud.2865]

Still pirateship, just one ship to another. This ship doesn't seems to react well if get into close range fight though. It relies heavily on mesmer to pull, so likely to see a mesmer commander but if you know how they gonna play, you won't fall for it.