Breakdown of mesmer defenses, and why it's absurd.

[RisenHowl.2419]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAb3/GFMDWoBMMjlXDrUvJa43/CgHQ0AQO5IA

scepter+focus or pistol. focus takes desperate decoy, pistol takes duelist's discipline.

5 blinds which are essentially 5 1s invuln frames

1s invuln on dodge with 100% vigor uptime

invuln on f4, 1-4s + 1-4 mirrors for an additional 1-4s.

2 target breaks, at absolute worst 1s of people trying to see which is the real mesmer out of the pile of clones

minimum 2 stealths, both instant. 3 with decoy, also instant. breaks target again.

scepter block, 4.75s CD

focus or pistol disable, diversion x1-4, torch disable, mantra disable x2 if chosen. hope you can upkeep stab 100% of the time!

additionally, you can't kill the clones because they are also... you guessed it! invuln. Do you know why mesmer's invuln is SO MUCH BETTER than every other classes? every single invuln on every class except mesmer does not allow you to attack while they are active. making you choose between attacking and being invulnerable to condition damage, power damage, and crowd control. mesmer does not share that liability... no....no, mesmer attacks are even BETTER while they're invulnerable! because no one queried anyone over the age of 10 before deciding that was a positive concept for a game. name one competitive game where one player can freely and without fear of retaliation hammer on another player for 20 seconds straight. try and name one person who thinks that's a good concept for a game.

all of these have 0 cast time and cannot be interrupted, this means they can be chained together while still outputting damage. 20 stacks of confusion and torment stop you from moving or casting, not that it matters since you can't actually hit the mirage regardless.

whoever is in charge of balance needs to be fired and replaced with someone that gives a damn about the players. every fight with a mirage is a matter of staying alive for 20s while you are completely powerless to fight back, then they just run and reset at will. in 30s it starts all over again. this is obviously not fun to play against.

[BadMed.3846]

Totally agree. Mesmers have been beyond a joke for a while now. Please nerf properly and bring them to an even playing field.

[Arheundel.6451]

Inb4 all the mesmer mains come with their L2P arguments and why it's your fault for dieing to them...mesmer community since HoT launch

[Curunen.8729]

@Arheundel.6451 said:Inb4 all the mesmer mains come with their L2P arguments and why it's your fault for dieing to them...mesmer community since HoT launch

Don't worry, this one can't be bothered to rise to the bait. Will let someone else do it.

[Crinn.7864]

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAb3/GFMDWoBMMjlXDrUvJa43/CgHQ0AQO5IA

Surely you meant to take Ineptitude over Deceptive Evasion?

[Tiipi.6750]

I'd realy love to see how you're doing damage and being invulnerable for 20 sec straight, while applying 20 stacks of confusion of course.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAb3/GFMDWoBMMjlXDrUvJa43/CgHQ0AQO5IA

Surely you meant to take Ineptitude over Deceptive Evasion?

nope, deceptive evasion. scepter block, dodge, ambush, shatter. repeat every 5s until they die or you run out of shatters. then swap to axe/t. extra clone always gets to attack applying more confusion, torment, and bleeding. don't get me wrong, you can run either as it's a moot point, you'll still win every fight

[RisenHowl.2419]

@everyman.4375 said:I'd realy love to see how you're doing damage and being invulnerable for 20 sec straight, while applying 20 stacks of confusion of course.

so you haven't fought a mesmer this month at all then?

[Tiipi.6750]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@everyman.4375 said:I'd realy love to see how you're doing damage and being invulnerable for 20 sec straight, while applying 20 stacks of confusion of course.

so you haven't fought a mesmer this month at all then?

I have, i also main mesmer wich i guess could make me a bit biased, but i try to stay as neutral as possible.

[Jeknar.6184]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:5 blinds which are essentially 5 1s invuln frames

Does this mean Thief Pistol 5 is a invulnerability field?

[RisenHowl.2419]

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:5 blinds which are essentially 5 1s invuln frames

Does this mean Thief Pistol 5 is a invulnerability field?

does thief pistol 5 have a cast time and a 90 radius?

a blind is in effect the same thing as a 1s invuln frame in almost every scenario since it causes whatever the next skill used to miss regardless of how many targets it hits. The only time a blind is not the same as an inframe is when it is a multihit skill ie. rapid fire, ghastly claws, confounding suggestions etc. in that case it is more like .5s iframe than 1s. if you are blind, and do not have resistance as most classes do not, there is no difference between attacking someone who is invuln and attacking someone when you're blinded.

[Curennos.9307]

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:5 blinds which are essentially 5 1s invuln frames

Does this mean Thief Pistol 5 is a invulnerability field?

Would you like me to delve into pistol 5 and explain how it works and its limitations? Not sure why you would even bring it up.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:5 blinds which are essentially 5 1s invuln frames

Does this mean Thief Pistol 5 is a invulnerability field?

Would you like me to delve into pistol 5 and explain how it works and its limitations? Not sure why you would even bring it up.

Strawman arguments are getting pretty thin

[mortrialus.3062]

This build doesn't even get close to 100% Vigor Uptime. Like maybe 20%.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@mortrialus.3062 said:This build doesn't even get close to 100% Vigor Uptime. Like maybe 20%.

It's 30% from dueling alone? False oasis + leadership runes. I didn't fully fill out the build because that's how many options it has and can still be invuln.

[mortrialus.3062]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:This build doesn't even get close to 100% Vigor Uptime. Like maybe 20%.

It's 30% from dueling alone? False oasis + leadership runes. I didn't fully fill out the build because that's how many options it has and can still be invuln.

The most common amulets, sages or carrion, will leave you with 5% crit chance. Good lucky keeping 30% uptime with that.

[Crinn.7864]

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:5 blinds which are essentially 5 1s invuln frames

Does this mean Thief Pistol 5 is a invulnerability field?

If you can get someone to actually stand in pistol 5 then yes it kind've is.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:This build doesn't even get close to 100% Vigor Uptime. Like maybe 20%.

It's 30% from dueling alone? False oasis + leadership runes. I didn't fully fill out the build because that's how many options it has and can still be invuln.

The most common amulets, sages or carrion, will leave you with 5% crit chance. Good lucky keeping 30% uptime with that.

Why would you pick either over deadshot? Precision/condi damage/vitality/expertise

You don't have anything that scales with healing power so sages is out right off the bat. Carrion I could see, but honestly you shouldn't get hit at all in the first place

[ezd.6359]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:5 blinds which are essentially 5 1s invuln frames

Does this mean Thief Pistol 5 is a invulnerability field?

If you can get someone to actually stand in pistol 5 then yes it kind've is.

No.1) It pulses. It will work vs may be half of warriors 100h blades, rest will hit (and kill you).2) Many classes can clear condi or apply resist.

To the build. Blind/Invisibility will not make you immune to damage. While you have 0 condi clear, you will die from random AOEs from any source.

[Ryan.9387]

If you took all of that you would do no damage. Also you spec more than you can actually run.

On one hand the defense is broken, but anet has done a good job toning it down via vigor duration/adventure rune/energy sigil/jaunt/elusive mind nerfs.

At this point mesmer is in a decent place. Most builds have a clear condi cleanse problem and are seriously vulnerable to condi builds that can apply damage. Mesmers who take elusive mind lose damage dodge uptime due to exhaustion. Portal nerfs have made mirage less oppressive on the map now that it is non viable in solo queue.

From someone who plays condi mirage at a very high level, it has losing/incredibly touchy matchups vs boonbeast/conversion holo/condi thief. It also has a tough time vs sd ele/coreguard. What it does well is burst almost like a condi version of power thief with excellent mobility.

So tldr its okay. It doesnt have great 1v1 matchups and since the tool it used to make up for that fact (portal) is now non viable, its no longer is oppressive in pvp.

[Tiipi.6750]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:This build doesn't even get close to 100% Vigor Uptime. Like maybe 20%.

It's 30% from dueling alone? False oasis + leadership runes. I didn't fully fill out the build because that's how many options it has and can still be invuln.

The most common amulets, sages or carrion, will leave you with 5% crit chance. Good lucky keeping 30% uptime with that.

Why would you pick either over deadshot? Precision/condi damage/vitality/expertise

You don't have anything that scales with healing power so sages is out right off the bat. Carrion I could see, but honestly you shouldn't get hit at all in the first place

I have never seen someone take deadshot the most common amulets are sage, wizard and carrion

[Derm.4932]

I'm surprised nobody is talking about Auspicious Anguish. A while ago they went and blanket nerfed all impactful traits that activate on CC by increasing CDs to 90s. These were:

Gale Song, Reactive Lenses, Hunter's Determination, Dark Defiance, Shared Anguish, Hard to Catch, Last Stand, Eye for an Eye, and the old auspicious anguish. All of these skills were skills that activated upon disable and were meant to "save" you.

Then they went back and buffed ONLY the mesmer one, adding distortion reset, which is far more powerful than the rest of these traits, and lowered the cooldown to 50 seconds, while the other classes get jack shit. Hard not to agree with the people saying class favoritism when you see changes like this.

[Flumek.9043]

As stated and confirmed with videos, arenanet balance devs are ultra casual aka plain begginner level bad.

They do duels on keep , with mystic builds (at least 1 utility is a random offmeta spirit weapon) , and they have reaction time of a skill clicker. Maybe theyre intentionally playing mouse only for testing purpose, but the purpose doesnt matter compared to results:

At THAT level, the game IS BALANCED AND ANYTHING can happen. much fun gj

[RisenHowl.2419]

@Ryan.9387 said:If you took all of that you would do no damage. Also you spec more than you can actually run.

On one hand the defense is broken, but anet has done a good job toning it down via vigor duration/adventure rune/energy sigil/jaunt/elusive mind nerfs.

At this point mesmer is in a decent place. Most builds have a clear condi cleanse problem and are seriously vulnerable to condi builds that can apply damage. Mesmers who take elusive mind lose damage dodge uptime due to exhaustion. Portal nerfs have made mirage less oppressive on the map now that it is non viable in solo queue.

From someone who plays condi mirage at a very high level, it has losing/incredibly touchy matchups vs boonbeast/conversion holo/condi thief. It also has a tough time vs sd ele/coreguard. What it does well is burst almost like a condi version of power thief with excellent mobility.

So tldr its okay. It doesnt have great 1v1 matchups and since the tool it used to make up for that fact (portal) is now non viable, its no longer is oppressive in pvp.

Uhhh... this still pumps plenty of damage. You're literally untouchable with the amount of iframe and blind uptime.

If you're losing to anything on mirage right now in a 1v1 you can't be that high of a level man. I can see stalemating a conversion holo or boonbeast, but you have excellent disengage tools to not actually lose to either.

[apharma.3741]

@"Derm.4932" said:I'm surprised nobody is talking about Auspicious Anguish. A while ago they went and blanket nerfed all impactful traits that activate on CC by increasing CDs to 90s. These were:

Gale Song, Reactive Lenses, Hunter's Determination, Dark Defiance, Shared Anguish, Hard to Catch, Last Stand, Eye for an Eye, and the old auspicious anguish. All of these skills were skills that activated upon disable and were meant to "save" you.

Then they went back and buffed ONLY the mesmer one, adding distortion reset, which is far more powerful than the rest of these traits, and lowered the cooldown to 50 seconds, while the other classes get jack kitten. Hard not to agree with the people saying class favoritism when you see changes like this.

I talked about it when it was released and how it was dumb for rewarding you when you messed up:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63137/auspicious-anguish

Guess what? No-one seems to care about sorting out the power creeped mess. You have PvE players spamming Pogchamp whenever a buff like this comes out then whining to high heaven when it leaves because they used to like it despite most PvE being so easy you can play it while having a lobotomy....or in the case of the average GW2 player after said procedure.

Edit: I also raised awareness of mantra of pain and how spammable it is and how it gives 12 stacks of might all the time for easy damage, likewise no-one cares.