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Official Feedback Thread: LWS4 Episode 5: All or Nothing


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I actually enjoyed the story. If you people feel like not playing just because everything wasn't a cake walk this time around, then okay - your free time is yours to spend however you see fit. But I actually feel more encouraged than ever to actually play because finally it feels like elder dragons pose a serious threat.

! Main characters dying is nothing new to GW2, and GW2 is not made for children under 12 for those complaining that the story eventually made your children upset. I am sorry - but most players are not here for fairy tales where the good guys always make it no matter what... And - I am actually happy that we didn't just kill Krak as we did with the previous two dragons... I mean, Elder dragons are supposed to be as powerful as GODS (!) - I been wondering why it has been so easy for us to kill them (and Balt for that matter)... Sure, it was heartbreaking - but finally it feels like the dragons could actually pose a threat instead of "Ooooh, so Random Dragon is causing trouble? No problems, lets gather some resources and kill it." and actually failing for once felt a little bit more realistic than always having this successful plan that more or less smoothly kills the dragon with as little damage as possible.

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Siren's reef is ludicrous. My group that can straight clear any other fractal with zero resets took 2 hrs and probably hundreds of revives before we quit in frustration. It's way out of line with fractal difficulty levels. The shark alone has such ludicrously precise timing as to be impossible to dodge with a real internet connection.

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@"SyndicatePhoenix.9405" said:I love how main characters can die in the story. It makes the story much more realistic than just killing off characters that are on the wrong side,or not liked by the players would make the deaths wayyy too predictable and boring. If you dont know who will die it makes the death much more impactful...and painful. Now I'm afraid of who will die next... but Im curious as well >3 I love the darkness this episode has. After all this is a war with a powerful Elder Dragon of course there will be casaulties and depressing tones XD

Things I love in the 5th episode:

  • New map. It is perfect for the gryphon mount. The visuals are great as always.
  • Kalkatorric. I was kind of distracted during the fight....busy staring at his amazing head. I want him as my pet or my mount. He is hypnotizing <3 Even if you die its worth to just look at him when he blasts you with thunder. I want to pet him badly <3
  • Its ovious you love Taimi. So far she lost some really close friends (again) and has a "dont worry we will torture you even more" cloud hanging above her head. She just cant catch a break poor thing.
  • Visuals and CInematics.
  • Taimi in general. Her voice acting and reactions are spot on as always.
  • *My ele Commander wasnt as overpowered as they sometimes are (like in the Balthazar ending war. I stopped counting the deaths after reaching the number 35.) The fight difficulty was just about right here.

Cons:*No epilouge. When we have this kind of intense ending of an episode,please let us have an epilogue. They are needed so the player can catch up with what has happened, cool down after the events and have a small chat with the group to see what others in the group think. Basically a cool-down moment. Right now it looks like the Commander bailed from the battle place before anyone had a chance to talk to them(unless this was intended as such...if it was then heck yea.Time for the Commander to break down for once >:D) . Anyway,short epilouges are great way to just sit for a few seconds with the group and cool down before you go back to the non-story-mode. Being thrown back as soon the end came was... kind of weird. there was a lot of depressed characters standing around the green story-plot-star when I was thrown back, just standing still...while those who didn't play the story (yet) were playing around one. Almost...traumatic XD

*A little too short. Considering the time it was released (right after New Year and Christmas) I can understand why, even devs and voice actors need a break so the shortness isn't ruining anything.

*Where is Kasmeer and Marjory? Did Kalk eat them for dinner off-screen? If they come back next episode, they will have pretty rude awakening lol...

  • Blishes supposed-to-be birthday wont happen now huh XD Dont think teams moral is the best right now.

*commaner isnt tortured enough...they never break down over anything. Really hope for some episodes where Commander has some personal issues related to the events that has already happened.... something that would make them ask for some help and show a little bit of weakness. Or have total mental breakdown and sink deep,deep into the dephts of despair and self destruction >3

Overall: 9/10

This.And I also agree that we should see some parts of story where Commander gets a breakdown and goes really sad and gloomy. We've yet to see this. This is a perfect time for that now and it will make commander show more personality!

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While I loved This episode and thought the story was full of energy I have to tackle this ending.

! The way this story ended wasn't the same as the cliffhangers we were left on in the past. In previous story lines we were left anticipating the next chapter, trying to figure out how we'll move on from here. With this one I understand the point is to try and convey a sense of hopelessness, but honestly I think it went too far. I want to go explore the new map, I want to continue trying to build legendaries, but the idea of playing gw2 just right now is just depressing. We knew this was coming, and we know that Aurene will be back (at least in some capacity). by leaving us on this cliffhanger all you've done is hurt the player for the sake of hurting the player. There is no 'Just wait for the next chapter' or 'you'll still have to fight Kralk before he destroys everything' it just feels like; 'look at how many character we can kill in a living story!'

! Much like I feel Game of thrones is a lazy series, relying on aggressively killing characters; Gw2 storytelling seems to more and more be relying on shock value than the carefully constructed followthrough of previous story lines.

That being said, I have enjoyed a lot of the story so far, and a miss here and there (especially seeing as it's a personal taste thing) is not enough to condemn a story that has been consistently wonderful to play through.

/endrant.

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I loved the story and the way it ended. Very... Hah... Anyways... One major concern I have is: What happened to events? I don't mean events, I mean limited-time events. Something like Season 1? A part of the world changes? Same goes to the big meta events as well. HoTs style? Maybe not entirely... But what's with the lack of these huge open-world events that brings so many together to coordinate and work to get something cool? Maybe work to a world boss or some new looking... cosmetics?

As much as I like these new maps and stories, usually they end up empty after a while. (Except Istan)There's not a lot to do in them after a while, they just end up empty. It's usually always the same: New map, some basic events and hearts here and there, play through the story... Wait?

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I love the map it is beautiful. The story line sorry to say it sucked. what a horrible way to leave us all hanging, if it was a book I would give it serious negative reviews. Horrid story beautiful map. Your achievements are hard to get due to not seeing all the aoes that you need to avoid. Played a whole section whilst wondering what it was that was destroying my health seeing I saw not one aoe. Read about it later on dulfy. All in all am feeling mighty let down due to the horrible way you ended the story. in that regard you lost mayor points as far as I am concerned. Gonna have to dig deep to motivate myself to keep playing. Massive disappointment here.

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The map design in general on this episode is brilliant. I love the feel of the dwarven areas in the mountains, really feels seamless and integrated. And it's just fun. I'm sure I'll get tired of it eventually but right now the plate rooms themselves feel like as much of a reward for doing the metas as the treasures they contain. Really well done . . .

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I really like the new episode, but there's one thing that really bugs me. When did we go from "we can't kill elder dragons because it will destroy the world" to "let's kill Kralkatorrik"? We saved him from being killed in PoF to prevent Tyria's destruction and then dealed with Joko, but got no news about Glint's legacy or how to use it to stop the dragons. Still, before we even enter Glint's lair in the recent episode to learn more about the legacy, Ogden specifically talks about killing Kralkatorrik. And everyone ingame seems to be fine with it. All allies including the pact gather to kill him and noone is like "wait a minute, I thought we are not allowed to kill the dragons anymore??" Am I the only one who thinks this is bad writing?

To give a solution: I would have liked for Ogden to gather everyone without really telling them why and leave that to us. That way, we could tell everyone what's going on and how we can kill dragons again AFTER the trials. The way the story is written now, everyone seems to know the plan before we do and I wonder how and why?

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I've no idea why people didn't like the ending of the story. The ending was perfect. It added to the weight and anticipation as to what might come next. It wouldn't have such a good impact had it all been 'resolved'/discussed after. It's perfect the way it is, like in some movies/series which is exactly the effect they wanted to get.I'm glad they did it like this, because it leaves us to speculate, contemplate and wonder how things will go next.

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I just have a question, why call it "All or Nothing" when you already gave us nothing?Ignoring your remaining rambling, "All or Nothing" could also be meant as we risked all and won nothing as a result, despite the physical damage we dealt to it.

And while I'm genereally not a fan of character death "simply" for drama sake, this one felt impactful and hit the spot of my - admittedly narrow - comfort zone. Right there where it hurt.

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Oh boy oh boy oh boy...I think that was a pain to finish this Episode who are...really hard with the end...But I think you hit very hard on this one and congratulation...I don't usually feel bad with character death but this one...You make me cry! :cry: :heartbreak:

But yes, basically:

Pros:-The maps is beautiful! When I goes in for the first time, mostly in the forge with the ambiant inside, I was completely surprised.-The music! This episode have amazing musics I listen almost each time now on Youtube and it's gold, mostly Zephyrith chorus who are just great!-The story, even if I hate a lot the end, not due of the scenario but due of the drama that really hurted me, It was amazing, for this episode, I would like kiss you the right cheek and slap your left one for the ending scene, no having clear idea what we'll do after in the next episode or season, I hate to be teased in that way! D:

Cons:-Not enough maps event, Except few escort event, heart and two meta, they've not much and too bad, I would love more event, but after if that the cost to make the story amazing like that, I prefer the story quality.-The reward, I don't know what I could use with the Branded mass, for my part, I don't find anything interesting to spend this new currency except for craft of the news skins, otherwise...meh.

And to finish, few thing I really hope:

! -As Aurene is dead, I don't think she will return (even if she consume Joko magic) but perhaps Glint, Vlast and Aurene will be together against Kralkatorrik into the Mist, perhaps they will fight together against him!-I really love the idea to be able to "remplace" Kralkatorrik, That something I would love to see a new Elder Dragon and friendly, might be not only an great allies but also change completely the tide of the war! -I hope also they will give all of us a Aurene teddy bear because...MEEH! :disappointed_relieved:

Otherwise, a very amazing episode, I disliked the Episode two and three but the two previous and the first for my part is my favourite, keep it up, and don't break other people heart...please don't kill Taimi yet :heartbreak:

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Impressive map, nice metas, good rewards. Story was good. Less bugs than anticipated.

But:

  • Doing the dredge heart can be (at some times) quite annoying due to some players taking the fishes. Also the achievement was annoying to make since it needs to land exactly in the mid, missed that achievement several times despite that the fish landed in the basket but it was not exactly enough in the mid. Could be done better.
  • Achievements that need to fail certain (easy) events are terrible, we literally scaled the event up with 15 people and it got done by 1 necro alone. At least that was fixed quite fast, but please think before implementing that kind of achievements (or give it a hint in the achievement description, since most people didn't know that the rift event need to fail for that)
  • The purple room in the treasure chamber ... Just look at the threads in the forum. Fix it please asap
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My two cents then :

The good-The map is quite well designed, a lot of vertical and horizontal pathways making most mounts useful, as well as glider plus Bond of Faith adding more mobility, that's Always nice.-Relatively good handling of dialogue throughout the storyline and the ambiant events, would have probably welcomed a bit more dwarven interactions/lore-Stunning musical and acting performance all around. The characters react appropriately to their situation.-Canach is awesome.-An interesting concept of an offensive skill that can be used on mount back without dismounting, I'd like to see that officialized somehow.-Very powerful and impactful final battle.

The bad-The gut punches have been a Little too overly present lately. Even if one of them was introduced fairly shortly, his uniqueness made him very welcome and interesting, and it would have been welcome to have around for longer before he was ... retired. As for that most recent one, I must profess that the demise has stopped me in my tracks of the game, not because I dont like the game anymore, but because the impact was too strong. This is a part of where I disagree with the idea that you made the Commander a blank slate for us to get into. The commander was overly confident of the outcome and risked Too Much for what he Knew was a longshot. That's arrogance. Had he been more reluctant to go for it (as in, his followers and guides pushing him to action when he Knows it's not going to go well), I would have felt atleast a little better. As it stands, I feel a gap between my interpretation of how -I- as my own Commander would have handled this fight, and how it was portrayed. The Commander lost something he dearly valued for little to no gain, on something he knew was risky to begin with. It's -somehow- out of character. I can only hope the emotional impact leads to a complete reversal of how the story is handled : I expect our character to grow Extremely bitter and resentful. I also expect Balthazar of all people to get involved with our character now, if people know what I'm getting at.-Heart vendors sell Nothing interesting. WHERE ARE MY ENDLESS TONICS D: ? Seriously though : The hearts vendors are clones of each other and sell Nothing different from one another, there is no feeling of going for Something only That specific heart vendor sells, like in all the previous episodes.-The dwarven styled weapons that were Added were good, but the family is still not complete : We're atleast missing a sword, and pistol/rifle, which I expect dwarves were able to use and craft.-Not enough Ka-Braham.-After this episode's finale fight, I expected to talk with the characters to have some sort of final word on what had happened. I was not able to, though I understand why you went that route, and so I wont count this as a fault per se. It's effective in what you were going for, so it was a good decision.

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Everyone just remembered it to me: seriously, what are those heart vendors?! They don't sell anything great for karma! I was expected at least an endless Dwerve mining suit tonic. Or branded dwerve tonic. Would have liked to have an endless awakened asura tonic in Domain of kourna too.

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@hugo.4705 said:Everyone just remembered it to me: seriously, what are those heart vendors?! They don't sell anything great for karma!

I'm grateful enough the this map's node is at least work unlocking. Though it does feel really inconsistent that Diviner gear isn't bound to the currency. I'm not upset about the laurels (what else was I using them for?), but it really feels like the game needs a balance pass for consistency.

Meanwhile, what-the-kitten with this two-hour rotation? Stop it, stop it, stop it.And it's bound to exploration and loot. Requiring both metas just to get a chance at the place, then making the plates not drop consistently?Mind-boggling, and I really hope for some map fixes to make this less grating on the players' time. This could easily been slated to run in an hour.

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Now that I'm done. .
I dunno, am I done-done? I feel like after some good work that went into PoF, this episode just sort of cements the idea that I really can't trust GW2.

And no, not because of the way my character got punked right at the end or the kinda-obvious character death folks are broken up about.

But because it seems like this episode was built to frustrate, not entertain.

2-hour meta that would be better as a 1-hour rotation.I concede 1 hour for practical reasons. I'd prefer a half hour. But two hours is utter nonsense.

Locking exploration behind a 2-hour meta cycle.We've been over this. For years.What part of this was meant to be considered acceptable after Heart of Thorns?And not only is map completion locked behind the meta, it's locked behind a bugged item drop that's locked behind the meta.What. The. Kitten.

Final instance is a mess to navigate.Timed achievement? Haha, good luck when the terrain has significant hitches all over the place, and random 'splosions stop your mounts.And then there's the time lags on enemy waves. I'm itching to charge these crystals and . . pff, no enemies! Thrilling.

The map itself is kinda . . eh.Snow, brand, some twisty fortress tunnels. Thank goodness for my griffon.I'd like to finish exploring but.. well.. the meta and the bugs.

Achievement writing is a mess.Has been for years, honestly. Shouldn't seem like a big deal, except the tasks involved are asinine for a 15+ minute play experience.The "Don't Get Touched" ones are the absolute worst, and inspire violent thoughts. :| I could design similar ideas involving ping pong balls, a narrow hallway, and $50 if I needed to illustrate...But that leads me to...

NPCs that don't help.Notably, Aurene killing minions during the trial, and allies during the Crystal Dragon killing/pushing enemies outside of charging range.

I doubt I'll get to enjoy the spiffy Dragonsblood weapons. I'm glad good work went into them, and I hope players that do get them are happy.Not sad about

because it was spoiled for me on day two, and I assume there's writing to handle the situation.To that end, character development seems to be coming along.

So.. yeah. Final assessment: huge technical/execution flaws; some nice character and asset work. Mostly disappointed.

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Doesn't really matter where the enemies are killed as they will always and a 100% of the time drop a Branded Shard whenever killed outside absorption range! I kinda agree on the last instance being annoying terrain wise and with the popping in of crystals, but eh. The ground itself is built in a way where you can always take these small rock piles to jump up to the next level, though getting out of combat is a real pain. Not getting hit was easy too, two attempts for me because silly as I tried them all at the same time.

Anet is pretty good at this. Making not 100% obvious ways of completing something that will make it super easy, but you have to be observant to get them. In this case it was the small rock piles that save you 20+ seconds of walking around while being bombarded.

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The meta for thunderhead keep feels ultimately pointless; what I mean by this is you need to go out and charge crystals... because.... Reasons, before the brandstorm hits. Or you're going there to take the keep before the brandstorm hits. And then kill lots of stuff, at which point the brandstorm hits anyway and the meta just feels pointless, as I said. I feel the meta would have been much better if it had been a push-pull one where you storm the keep and take it, and then there is an event to hold it. If you succeed, yay, if not, you get pushed back. Nitpicky, but beyond farming branded it feels pointless, and if that is the point then it's not explained why it matters especially. There's loads of branded down south for example but no-one seems to want to go murder them quite as thoroughly.Rytlok's "Is that all you got!" at the end of successfully killing the boss is often missed when you're at the top as well (edit for clarification; it seems to be outside the 'player hears it' distance) so Gorrik's line didn't make sense the first few times I heard it.

I really enjoyed the nostalgia trip of the area though (even if the Grotto is no more-a pity, one of my favorite spots after Ice tooth Cave) but I especially enjoyed the underground parts. In an ideal world you'll release an expansion pack where everyone goes underground (to fight promordious?) in such a cave system, in a return to the heart of the shiverpeaks, maybe?

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I absolutely loved the story, the music, and the new map! I think pretty much everything was well done and really got me in the feels. I already can't wait for the next episode to come out!

That being said, there's a few anti-social mechanics within some of the events of the new map that bug me - and kinda make me dread seeing other players. This reddit post pretty much sums up what I'm talking about. I love GW2 mostly because of how it encourages players to work together (being able to share resource nodes, everyone that hits a mob gets experience from the kill, that sort of thing). But with a few events in this new map... well, it's like Anet took a step backwards or maybe it was just a BIG oversight? A few things the post covers includes...

  • Event boss mobs that only drop the needed item to one person - such as the Graveling in "The Consul's Tomb" that drops a single plate, which players fight over... rather than giving everyone that fought the graveling the plate.
  • Collection events that don't have a time remaining timer after filling the progress bar - such as the oil collection event during The Oil Floes meta event... rather than giving 10 seconds to turn in what you have collected just like every other collection event in Tyria.
  • Server side resource nodes and people having the possibility to steal your fish - such as the dredge fishing spots for the heart quest in the Dredgeways... rather than making the fish client-side so players can't steal your fish

Please, please, please fix these few things to encourage player interaction once again or at the very least refrain from implementing these anti-social design methods in future content!

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you could add dwarfs tonic in this map but you didn't not add this..why ? because you focus in weapon.skin.armor.and achievement.mini pet. if you have added dwarfs as tonic endless or a combats tonic everyone who like collect tonic will be happy but you don't make that happen.so please ! next time don't forget add new tonic because is really boring you forget over time add some tonic could be wonderful.

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@Ashantara.8731 said:Another criticism: Just went back to Sun's Refuge, but the instance was unchanged, though as if Aurene was still alive and missing. You should have done something with that instance for those who have finished the latest story episode. :/That's because she is still alive and kicking, I mean missing. Tell me that the Sylvari character training mission isn't done the same way, to me what we see at the end of the 5th episode is your character's unconscious interpretation, as in her worst nightmarish scenario made manifest. I say this because it looks like the same dream state with no UI and also because she was thrown over 100 hundred feet away because of the force of the explosion. Everyone seems to think ah being thrown over a hundred feet is cake walk and 3 seconds later she wakes up with a slight limp. Trust me it's a dream state this one and the Sylvari training scene are done in same identical way. In episode 6 she will truly wake and come back to see that Aurene is not only awake and well but she on the other hand is not limping. I'm gonna lmao in 3 months, to me story wise you simply don't train a character give it a gift then have that gift transform another character completely to then say to yourself, this character is now too good too important so lets kill it after all the work we've done on her, besides she doesn't deserve to live. That's the thinkling of a Klingon or a Charr. ;)

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