Make clones a viable dps option

[Hot Boy.7138]

@Esplen.3940 said:I mean, when do you use Sword3, 4, or 5 for their DPS components? Let's be real, they aren't powerful abilities if you ignore their illusion components (although Sword4 can hit very hard).

That's exactly my point. They're not used because they are a huge dps loss. My idea is to redesign Infinite Horizon so that these skills won't be a dps loss to use. If one clone could replicate the skills and damage of the mirage, then using sword 3 to ramp up damage and gap close would be viable. Sword 4's block would be viable and yes it does hit like a truck while blocking an attack and has an evade frame. Clone skills have the most flavor and have very good utility, but never get used. My idea is to make a build that uses 2 phantasms and 1 clone be the standard for power mirage dps in high end PvE content.

Ideally keeping up two iSwordsman that act as they currently do on live servers, and one clone that activates the same weapon skills at the same time for the same damage as the mirage. Taking mirage in a power build means giving up domination for the 15% damage to phantasms, 12.5% extra damage from vulnerability trait, and on demand distortions from signets. So I don't know the math, but I expect the clone to do the same damage as the caster, so it compensates for the loss of those damage traits. Essentially, it will be like the mirage is in control of two characters at once, the main avatar and the clone. The difference is the clone will stil be easily killed and movement will depend on the AI as it does now, but when you activate any weapon skill for your avatar, the clone will copy it simultaneously. So if you auto attack, the cloner will auto attack, if you blurred frenzy, the clone will do that too. It will do it while moving if it is a skill that is capable of movement while using. I think it would be awesome in every way.

[Curunen.8729]

The horizon would no longer be "infinite" if it was only a single clone.

I mean yeah I like that you want one clone to mimic what the Mesmer does as well as being more powerful, but I think it loses the theme of this trait where every clone at least ambushes with you.

If one of the proposed phantasm reworks occurs (eg separating from the illusion pool so unable to be overwritten by clones due to functioning more like renegade spirits) then IH doesn't need to be altered.

[Zenith.7301]

I think you people are too hopeful about reworks.

They haven't even fixed ranger pets.

Ranger pets can't:

-benefit from food-benefit from runes-benefit from sigils-benefit from ascended upgrades (they're static)-don't have the crit damage % or condi damage and condi duration % of the ranger

-tax the ranger in power weapon coefficients while scaling far worse than the player character

• can't attack up or down walls
• can't attack objects like doors
• melee pets don't cleave, making a % of ranger damage also not cleave
• can't hit moving targets worth a damn
• Still melt in wvw after 5+ years
• still have a ridiculous 50 sec cd death penalty, imagine a warrior's burst skill going on a 50 sec cd if the warrior took enough damage, same for shatters if your clones died

All these real issues, alongside with necromancer death shroud disabling the benefit of signet passives and making outside healing sources obsolete to the necromancer while a warrior in endure pain or shield stance does receive healing.

I could go on about all their boneheaded failures, writing the bible on engineer's failed design or elementalists' quandary with low innate defenses forcing bunker builds or low autoattack DPS fforcing them into staff for DPS due to its high damage per action skills (unlike sword and dagger) in PvE.

Nothing really changes at the rate it should in this game. Necromancer minions are still garbage as they have been since release. Reaper greatsword and shouts are still useless garbage in PvE (and pvp as well in the case of greatsword).

They release their gimmicks and don't care for your feedback. If they did, they would have had the 2 week beta weekends they did in HoT. In PoF they didn't even bother with an exchange with the community for feedback let alone more than two 2 hour stress tests for PvE testing.

[Hot Boy.7138]

@Zenith.7301 said:I think you people are too hopeful about reworks.

They haven't even fixed ranger pets.

Ranger pets can't:

-benefit from food-benefit from runes-benefit from sigils-benefit from ascended upgrades (they're static)-don't have the crit damage % or condi damage and condi duration % of the ranger

-tax the ranger in power weapon coefficients while scaling far worse than the player character

• can't attack up or down walls
• can't attack objects like doors
• melee pets don't cleave, making a % of ranger damage also not cleave
• can't hit moving targets worth a kitten
• Still melt in wvw after 5+ years
• still have a ridiculous 50 sec cd death penalty, imagine a warrior's burst skill going on a 50 sec cd if the warrior took enough damage, same for shatters if your clones died

All these real issues, alongside with necromancer death shroud disabling the benefit of signet passives and making outside healing sources obsolete to the necromancer while a warrior in endure pain or shield stance does receive healing.

I could go on about all their boneheaded failures, writing the bible on engineer's failed design or elementalists' quandary with low innate defenses forcing bunker builds or low autoattack DPS fforcing them into staff for DPS due to its high damage per action skills (unlike sword and dagger) in PvE.

Nothing really changes at the rate it should in this game. Necromancer minions are still garbage as they have been since release. Reaper greatsword and shouts are still useless garbage in PvE (and pvp as well in the case of greatsword).

They release their gimmicks and don't care for your feedback. If they did, they would have had the 2 week beta weekends they did in HoT. In PoF they didn't even bother with an exchange with the community for feedback let alone more than two 2 hour stress tests for PvE testing.

I appreciate your feedback, but I'd like to keep things on topic. Your post really belongs in a separate thread if those are issues you want to bring up to the devs.

[Esplen.3940]

Actually he brings up a relevant point. You're asking for a huge redefinition of core mechanics when there are glaring issues everywhere that have been around just as long and don't require as much work to fix and still haven't been addressed.

Mesmer has always been the bottom of the barrel, alongside the Necro. Although the Necro has become safe, selfish damage (when it used to be unsafe, selfish damage) while Mesmer has always been support. Sidenote: Scourge is safe, supportive damage (they lose their selfish portion with team support off Shades!!)

Although there was a time when Ranger was at the bottom of the barrel alongside Necro and Mesmer. But that was because of a Frost Spirit nerf (and community overreaction). So Ranger has also been (for the most part) relegated to support duty. Heck, they got their condi variant nerfed even though the rotation had more inputs than Ele. I don't know how good Soulbeast is, though, so I'm not going to speak up on that end.

[Hot Boy.7138]

Chances of any single player's feedback getting taken into consideration by devs is very small. But it's still fun to theorize, post about it, and discuss the future and potential. Those are all issues of other classes and issues in the past. None of that has to do with the future of mirage. Those are all valid complaints that belong in another thread because they deserve attention specific to those issues. This is all about the potential for a 2 phantasms, 1 clone set up where the clone becomes a disposable avatar of sorts. I agree those issues are valid, but doesn't belong in this thread. First off, this isn't a complaint thread. It's about theorizing the potential of this redesign. I just don't want it to get side tracked into a negative thread about what's wrong with this or that class and how long it's been broken,.

I want this to be about the potential for clone generating weapon skills to become viable to use for their utility such as a teleport, block, etc, while not being a DPS loss, and bringing much needed finishers to mesmers to combo fields, in addition to being more cleave. It will also solve the issue of lack of synergy between clones and phantasms because with this rework they wil work together harmoniously to achieve max dps, while still retaining their utilitty. And the best part is these skills will actually finally get some use in high end pve content which will create a much more active play experience for mirages than current power base mes offers.

I dont think i've mentioned this yet, but it solves the issue of mirages losing sustained dps when phantasms are shattered/killed. It will always be very easy to generate a clone to keep up some sustained dps even if clones have been shattered or killed whether it's in PvE or pvp.

[Zenith.7301]

@Esplen.3940 said:Actually he brings up a relevant point. You're asking for a huge redefinition of core mechanics when there are glaring issues everywhere that have been around just as long and don't require as much work to fix and still haven't been addressed.

Mesmer has always been the bottom of the barrel, alongside the Necro. Although the Necro has become safe, selfish damage (when it used to be unsafe, selfish damage) while Mesmer has always been support. Sidenote: Scourge is safe, supportive damage (they lose their selfish portion with team support off Shades!!)

Although there was a time when Ranger was at the bottom of the barrel alongside Necro and Mesmer. But that was because of a Frost Spirit nerf (and community overreaction). So Ranger has also been (for the most part) relegated to support duty. Heck, they got their condi variant nerfed even though the rotation had more inputs than Ele. I don't know how good Soulbeast is, though, so I'm not going to speak up on that end.

Anariis from KING manages 38-40k, but the huge caveat is that just like core condi ranger, it relies on a target standing reliably in your traps and tiny bonfire field. Soulbeast is essentially the same as core ranger (same 2 traps, same sharpening stone, same sylvari elite racial), but you trade in a traitline for the terrible soulbeast traitline (only useful trait is the grandmaster, rest are terrible) in exchange for swapping out axe for dagger since dagger is an improvement over axe.

I would place condi soulbeast along the lines of renegade, but it provides zero group utility since it needs traps for dps (thus no spirits), and spotter conflicts with their 33% increased bleed damage trait. Renegade on the other hand thrives on mob movement but their Kalla legend summons are CC'able which makes them useless on Shattered Observatory CM due to boss knockbacks (you pay energy to maintain what are essentially totems, and those totem effects can be interrupted by CC or killed by damage).

Both are still solid condi builds only outshined by the fact that Anet saw fit to give Firebrand a spec that post nerf still does 38-39k on top of being able to provide group quickness and the utility of the supportive tomes on demand. The new PS warrior analogue of this xpac.

[Esplen.3940]

Keep in mind, core ranger got hit pretty hard by the food changes, so it's damage is roughly equal to that of Condi Mesmer in encounters (although the benchmark is slightly higher, I think).

[Zenith.7301]

@Esplen.3940 said:Keep in mind, core ranger got hit pretty hard by the food changes, so it's damage is roughly equal to that of Condi Mesmer in encounters (although the benchmark is slightly higher, I think).

The single useful soulbeast trait gives them 10% increased condi duration and so does their soulbeast deadly pet merging.

More or less what the build plays like.

Another caveat of the build is you need to flank to optimize, which has its own set of inconvenient raid implications.

On current raid bosses and fractals soulbeast condi is really strong.

But if new raid/fractal encounters mimic the current champ/legendary bounties of PoF, soulbeast is going to dip down to mediocre due to the frequency of bosses walking out of your fields.

[Esplen.3940]

Thanks for posting Soulbeast in response to my talking about Core Ranger (twice). It's really great that it's not tangential or anything.

Just a heads up, the trait that makes Condi Ranger (Soulbeast, not Core) good again improves Condi Duration, not Condi Damage. Like I said, they got hit pretty hard by the food changes and weren't able to reach 100% Condition Duration even with Sigil of Malice.

Also I'd hardly call it "only one single useful trait" when you also gain access to:Elevated Bond (+200 Condition Damage +100 Precision Primal Cry Maul)Furious Strength (+7% Power Damage while under Fury)Predator's Cunning (Free Damage when applying Poison)

In addition to traits such as Ambidexterity, Poison Master, and Hidden Barbs significantly improving your output as Soulbeast (there are definitely others, but Ambidexterity reduces Dagger cooldowns, allowing you to apply Poison and Bleeding more often (with improved effect).

There's a reason why the benchmark reaches >10k over the condi variant.

[Zenith.7301]

Elevated bond is a class mechanic. You give up the pet DPS in exchange, it's not free, merely an exchange. I don't call reaper shroud or mirage cloak a trait either.

Furious strength is a power damage increase, on a condi spec. 7% boost to power damage which makes a tiny portion of the output. Predator's cunning is a 170 siphon. It's taken because the alternatives do virtually nothing. It's like saying the blood magic siphons for necro are good traits, or life eater is a noticeable boost to greatsword power necro (nope).

Not sure why you're bringing up wilderness survival traits up when they were also available to core ranger.

The reason the benchmark reaches >10k the core ranger variant is called DAGGER. Dagger is a significant gain over the mainhand axe, on top of the more frequent access to bleed stacks from your lynx primal skill (a class mechanic, not a trait).

All I said is that the soulbeast traitline is weak, but the weapons and core mechanic are a gain. Sorta like why even a power necro needs to take the reaper traitline for the greatsword even if all the three trait tiers and the shouts are terrible in PvE outside decimate defenses. Because the one competitive weapon for your spec is locked behind that awful traitline.

Pet swap traits or any traits affecting the pet are currently bugged and do not affect the merged soulbeast, so poison master operates at reduced capacity for soulbeast compared to core ranger.

I wasn't detracting from your point. I was actually adding to it by saying that core condi ranger is mediocre, and while condi soulbeast may be getting good benchmarks, the raid performance may not actually reflect that given the several limitations I listed.

[Esplen.3940]

Core Ranger doesn't have access to mainhand Dagger which, coincidentally, applies both large amounts of Bleeding and a decent Poison.

And you didn't say that the soulbeast traitline is weak. You might have meant to, but you didn't say that in either of your posts.

[Zenith.7301]

You're right. I didn't clarify well enough. I implied as much by saying the soulbeast traitline was filled with useless traits.

So, for clarity, soulbeast is an upgrade because of oppressive superiority and the recently buffed dagger. Both soulbeast and core condi ranger still share the same weakness of large dependence on stationary targets.

More importantly, ranger has a competitive spec not because they revamped their horrid mechanics, but because they got large enough a numbers buff to a weapon.

So.....hoping for numbers buffs to axe/ambushes is a better bet than hoping for a phantasm rework.

As far as I'm aware, I don't think this game has even had a single mechanic rework for any of the core classes. Burst/adrenaline, initiative, energy, illusions/shatters, pets, virtues, deathshroud, attunements have all remained functioning relatively the same as in their release state.

[Esplen.3940]

@Zenith.7301 said:So.....hoping for numbers buffs to axe/ambushes is a better bet than hoping for a phantasm rework.

And that's where I'm standing right now, but dealing with all these "make IH baseline" doesn't really help.

As far as I'm aware, I don't think this game has even had a single mechanic rework for any of the core classes. Burst/adrenaline, initiative, energy, illusions/shatters, pets, virtues, deathshroud, attunements have all remained functioning relatively the same as in their release state.

Notable exception: HoT release came with summon update that gave all summons 95% damage reduction in PvE unless they were the primary target of an attack.Also nerfs... such as the band-aid nerf that never got addressed causing our Shatters to have a global ICD of 1s ("preventing" a bug that allowed Illusions to shatter with multiple shatters at the same time). Note: The global ICD didn't solve the bug, it merely made it harder to execute. The bug no longer exists, afaik, but the global ICD is still in place.

[Agent Noun.7350]

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@Agent Noun.7350 said:What I would

love

is a PvE-viable shatter spec. I'd love a DPS rotation--whether it's power or condition damage--where shattering frequently, instead of just keeping phantasms around as long as possible, is the way to go. Any options ArenaNet could add, or skills and traits to change, to enable that would make me really happy.

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@Hot Boy.7138 said:

@atlashugged.7642 said:Clones already are a viable DPS option though, and your proposed change would remove a lot of the fun of infinite horizon.

not for power builds. There is no power mirage build anyone can make high end pve content without a loss.

True... but judging from GS Ambush and Sword ambush it looks like they only want Power Mirage to exist in PvP and never in PvE. For me I'd rather go and add damage traits to Chrono (mostly looking at the slow traits chrono has which are never picked) or just play base Power Mesmer than try to come up with a convuluted solution to a fundamentally flawed problem at the base level.

I don't know that I'd say it's fundamentally flawed. Some number increases on those ambush attacks would help, as would increasing the physical damage on things like Mirage Mirrors breaking and Crystal Sands.

But I'd also agree that that's not what ArenaNet's going for with Mirage. It doesn't have a clear, coherent PvE vision, but what's there is amplifying Mesmer's condition damage. In PvP, the utilities and elite really get to shine--all that extra mobility is really fun and useful--but those aren't all that useful in group PvE, so Mirage is all about the traits and the axe skills there.

Even looking at the Chronomancer damage traits, I doubt it'd be superior to just taking a third core Mesmer trait line. Core power Mesmer is pretty solid, though, like you mention.

I mentioned Chrono's damage traits because Chronomancer fits as a Power version of an Elite more than Mirage. The reason for this is because there's a lot of tools in Chrono's set that augments Power Mesmer. Tides of Time, WoC, Continuum Split, Danger Time and Chronophantasma. Additionally, Shield is a very Power focused weapon.

Yeah, Chronomancer definitely favors power, but it's not really a DPS spec. The closest thing it has to a really helpful DPS traits is Chronophantasma, but that's not a very big DPS increase, especially because you're probably going to use that to do Continuum Split instead of something like Mind Wrack. If there was some way to put out a ton of clones quickly and reliably and Mind Wrack even more often, I could see a Chronomancer DPS spec. As it stands, though, it's power-based but almost entirely a support spec (in PvE, at least).

It might be cool if Chronophantasma applied to both clones and phantasms in PvE, and if there was a way to lower Mind Wrack's cooldown further. That way it could become part of the regular rotation and might make up for not always having three Phantasmal Swordsmen attacking--maybe.

[Esplen.3940]

@Agent Noun.7350 said:It might be cool if Chronophantasma applied to both clones and phantasms in PvE, and if there was a way to lower Mind Wrack's cooldown further. That way it could become part of the regular rotation and might make up for not always having three Phantasmal Swordsmen attacking--maybe.

Illusionary Reversion + Chronophantasma + Illusions? Short term AoE power/condi bomb for open world.

[FaboBabo.3581]

Desert Shadow ; Replace all Illusions with desert Shadows. Desert Shadows are exact coopies of the Mesmer and will mimic certain Skills. Desert Shadows deall 33% damage on normal Attacks and 100% Damage on Phantasm Attacks.

All Phantasm Abilities spawn a Desert Shadow instead and cause all Desert Shadows active right now to do the phantasm attack.All clone Abilities spawn a Desert Shadow instead.Desert Shadows in general have the same Weapon Set as the Mesmer, even swapping Weapons. They use auto attacks like the Mesmer, but with 33% Damage. If the Mesmer uses a "desert-shadow" - spawn ability all desert shadows will perform that certain attack.- However still only with 33% damage.

For example - Axe 2 will create a desert shadow, which does axe 2 once, and then starts auto attacking. The next axe 2 will spawn another shadow, and both will use axe 2 on there own once. If u then use ur Pistol 4 for example, u'll spawn a third shadow , and all shadows will perform the pistol 4 Phantasm attack, with 100% damage. This scenario would be our current 3 iduellists scenario. However instead of attacking once every "x" seconds with the pistol 4, u actually got to hit it again, while in between they mimic other actions.

Faster Burst, more illusion play, shatter is allowed since u have to respect the initial phantasm cooldown to do the phantasm attack again. Quickly raising up shadows after shattering is good to handle with certain abilitys.

I'd love this - > with the right balancing in numbers this could bring shatter into pve i think.

[Agent Noun.7350]

@Esplen.3940 said:

@Agent Noun.7350 said:It might be cool if Chronophantasma applied to both clones and phantasms in PvE, and if there was a way to lower Mind Wrack's cooldown further. That way it could become part of the regular rotation and might make up for not always having three Phantasmal Swordsmen attacking--maybe.

Illusionary Reversion + Chronophantasma + Illusions? Short term AoE power/condi bomb for open world.

Yeah, shatters are good for short-term DPS, but have no place in sustained DPS. I'm saying it would be really cool if there was a way to make a longer-term shatter build, too, so we're not tied to phantasm builds in raids.

[Zenith.7301]

@Agent Noun.7350 said:

@Esplen.3940 said:

@Agent Noun.7350 said:It might be cool if Chronophantasma applied to both clones and phantasms in PvE, and if there was a way to lower Mind Wrack's cooldown further. That way it could become part of the regular rotation and might make up for not always having three Phantasmal Swordsmen attacking--maybe.

Illusionary Reversion + Chronophantasma + Illusions? Short term AoE power/condi bomb for open world.

Yeah, shatters are good for short-term DPS, but have no place in sustained DPS. I'm saying it would be really cool if there was a way to make a longer-term shatter build, too, so we're not tied to phantasm builds in raids.

It's a matter of buffing shatter damage enough in PvE. If shattering phantasms increased shatter damage by like 30-50% per phantasm shattered and shattering a phantasm halved the phantasm cooldown, you'd see a shift in shatter usage.

The problem has always been getting Anet to do split balance buffs for PvE only is like praying the planets align. They just don't do it frequently at all.

[Agent Noun.7350]

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Agent Noun.7350 said:

@Esplen.3940 said:

@Agent Noun.7350 said:It might be cool if Chronophantasma applied to both clones and phantasms in PvE, and if there was a way to lower Mind Wrack's cooldown further. That way it could become part of the regular rotation and might make up for not always having three Phantasmal Swordsmen attacking--maybe.

Illusionary Reversion + Chronophantasma + Illusions? Short term AoE power/condi bomb for open world.

Yeah, shatters are good for short-term DPS, but have no place in sustained DPS. I'm saying it would be really cool if there was a way to make a longer-term shatter build, too, so we're not tied to phantasm builds in raids.

It's a matter of buffing shatter damage enough in PvE. If shattering phantasms increased shatter damage by like 30-50% per phantasm shattered and shattering a phantasm halved the phantasm cooldown, you'd see a shift in shatter usage.

The problem has always been getting Anet to do split balance buffs for PvE only is like praying the planets align. They just don't do it frequently at all.

Well, I guess I'll just keep asking for that kind of thing and hope one day it seems like a good idea to ArenaNet.

I'd say combine a big shatter damage buff for shattering phantasms in PvE with your suggested cooldown reduction and making Infinite Horizon boost clone damage with ambushes. All of a sudden, shatter builds have a shot at PvE viability, and maybe even power Mirage (given the extra clone generation). Though I think with Chronophantasma, Chronomancer shatter would be better, and that's really cool too.

Dear ArenaNet: build variety is cool, so please do something like this so that a shatter build is competitive with a phantasm build for raids and fractals. Thanks.

[Levetty.1279]

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Agent Noun.7350 said:

@Esplen.3940 said:

@Agent Noun.7350 said:It might be cool if Chronophantasma applied to both clones and phantasms in PvE, and if there was a way to lower Mind Wrack's cooldown further. That way it could become part of the regular rotation and might make up for not always having three Phantasmal Swordsmen attacking--maybe.

Illusionary Reversion + Chronophantasma + Illusions? Short term AoE power/condi bomb for open world.

Yeah, shatters are good for short-term DPS, but have no place in sustained DPS. I'm saying it would be really cool if there was a way to make a longer-term shatter build, too, so we're not tied to phantasm builds in raids.

It's a matter of buffing shatter damage enough in PvE. If shattering phantasms increased shatter damage by like 30-50% per phantasm shattered and shattering a phantasm halved the phantasm cooldown, you'd see a shift in shatter usage.

The problem has always been getting Anet to do split balance buffs for PvE only is like praying the planets align. They just don't do it frequently at all.

And when they do split balance they do weird stuff like make splitblade do more damage in PvP.

[Velektrian.5491]

They could have fixed both Power and Condi by making IH baseline then making Sword and Greatsword Clone Ambushes do respectable power damage. The tools to make both do damage are built into ambushes, if IH was baseline. You could even put the power component behind a trait. Like, replace IH with "Your Clone Ambushes now do the same damage as you." Buff Dune Cloak slightly with "While a target has Confusion, conditions last longer. Additionally, Confusion deals more damage." now, Power builds have a decent trait that helps them and Condi builds have a trait, can't take both so pick how you want to play.

[naturesoul.3578]

@Hot Boy.7138 said:I've played mirage exclusively since Friday and I'm pretty happy with the spec. I think it can be improved on and I have some ideas in how to do that.

Mirage is an immensely fun spec to use and it's disheartening that it doesn't have a place in PvE content as a power build. So my ideas are focused on making power builds more viable and changing the mirror mechanic.

Currently, if you want to run a mirage power build, you have to give up the Domination Traitline. The domination trait line is used in high end PvE content for 15% damage boost to phantasms, 12.5% damage boost to targets with 25 stacks of vulnerability, and survivability through signets that give distortion on cast. In addition, Power builds have two options for weapons, Sword and Greatsword. The problem with sword is that anytime you dodge, you will ambush and create a weak clone that will replace a high damage phantasm. The problem with greatsword is that mirror blade is a strong skill to use on CD because of the bounce, but isn't because it too creates a low damage clone that will replace a high damage phantasm. The same is true for sword's illusionary leap and offhand sword's block, scepter's block, Staff #2, axe#2, etc. All skills that create a clone are essentially useless in high end pve content.

My ideas are to change 3 traits:

1. Infinite Horizon - currently it gives mirage cloak to all clones when you get it and allows them to ambush.

   • Redesign it so that one clones, at most, will mimic the caster's weapon attacks and damage. Only one clone will be affected by this trait at a time. Other clones thatare active will behave normally. Phantasms won't be affected by this trait.

   • The idea is to be able to do max damage by having two phantasms and one clone out at all times, as opposed to base mesmer and chronomancer that needs tohave 3 phantasms. The clones will retain it's low HP pool and robotic movements, but it won't be limited to having to stand still to attack. If the caster isspamming auto attack, the clone will do that also at the same speed and for the same damage, while moving if it has to. Skills that root the caster in place, such asblurred frenzy, will root the clone in place. The caster will essentially be in control of two characters, but that clone's movement is controlled by AI.

                                *  Clones are very easily created, through traits and weapon skills, and it sucks they are more or less useless a lot of the times.  This will give them an important use and                                create a more unique experience for the mirage.  The weaknesses of this trait is that the mirage cloak and ambush will only be available on a single clone only. No                                more ambushes with 3 clones.  The low health pool is a weakness, And dummy movement AI.  But I believe this is all fair considering the dps potential of this clone.                                 Mirage will truly be a clone spec, have viable power dps option, and will make the caster a little easier to hide in his clones as stated was the original concept idea.

2. Nomad's Endurance- Shatter skills give vigor, which grants Condition damage.

   • This should be changed to give +150 condition damage OR power, depending on which stat is highest for the player. As a minor it should be a viable option for bothcondition users and power builds.

3. Desert Distortion- Illusions shattered by Distortion become Mirage Mirrors. Ambush skills become available for a short time whenever you grant distortion to yourself.

   • Most people do not want to run around collecting power ups on the ground in an MMO, especiallly when they are out of the way. As stated many times by thecommunity already, mirrors aren't fun and are not very useful. This is a cool trait, but it's a cool trait for a terrible mechanic.

   • This trait seems to be about survivability by giving the caster more evasion. I propose it redesigned to give survivability through clone death. When clones die, theywill create small areas of quicksand that persist for 2 second and causing 1 second of slow for enemies that stand in it. It could be changed to cripple and/orweakness. The effect should be that of soft CC condition. It falls in line with the desert theme.

With these change, I see mirage build users as whole will be able to use all of their skills in all game modes. Skills that never get used in raids because they are a dps loss will get use. A simple example would be just being able to use sword block or scepter block, to block a big attack, to save yourself without it being a big dps loss cause of the clone spawned. And in pvp or wvw, being able to mix onself in with a clone that is casting weapon skills while moving toward their target. These changes will create a more unique experience for mirage, and overcome some of the limitations of base mesmer.

Thank you.

*****TLDR: Mirages will maximize dps using phantasms and one clone. the one clone will copy the mirage's weapon skills and damage. So using clone summoning skills won't be a dps loss and will make playing mirage more fun.

The changes to Infinite Horizon you are requesting are horrible. if you want to nerf Mirage to useless ness then do that , otherwise horrible. If they want to weaken Mirage without breaking it then target axe skills and related traits.

[Hot Boy.7138]

@naturesoul.3578 said:

@Hot Boy.7138 said:I've played mirage exclusively since Friday and I'm pretty happy with the spec. I think it can be improved on and I have some ideas in how to do that.

Mirage is an immensely fun spec to use and it's disheartening that it doesn't have a place in PvE content as a power build. So my ideas are focused on making power builds more viable and changing the mirror mechanic.

Currently, if you want to run a mirage power build, you have to give up the Domination Traitline. The domination trait line is used in high end PvE content for 15% damage boost to phantasms, 12.5% damage boost to targets with 25 stacks of vulnerability, and survivability through signets that give distortion on cast. In addition, Power builds have two options for weapons, Sword and Greatsword. The problem with sword is that anytime you dodge, you will ambush and create a weak clone that will replace a high damage phantasm. The problem with greatsword is that mirror blade is a strong skill to use on CD because of the bounce, but isn't because it too creates a low damage clone that will replace a high damage phantasm. The same is true for sword's illusionary leap and offhand sword's block, scepter's block, Staff #2, axe#2, etc. All skills that create a clone are essentially useless in high end pve content.

My ideas are to change 3 traits:

1. Infinite Horizon - currently it gives mirage cloak to all clones when you get it and allows them to ambush.

   • Redesign it so that one clones, at most, will mimic the caster's weapon attacks and damage. Only one clone will be affected by this trait at a time. Other clones thatare active will behave normally. Phantasms won't be affected by this trait.

   • The idea is to be able to do max damage by having two phantasms and one clone out at all times, as opposed to base mesmer and chronomancer that needs tohave 3 phantasms. The clones will retain it's low HP pool and robotic movements, but it won't be limited to having to stand still to attack. If the caster isspamming auto attack, the clone will do that also at the same speed and for the same damage, while moving if it has to. Skills that root the caster in place, such asblurred frenzy, will root the clone in place. The caster will essentially be in control of two characters, but that clone's movement is controlled by AI.

                                *  Clones are very easily created, through traits and weapon skills, and it sucks they are more or less useless a lot of the times.  This will give them an important use and                                create a more unique experience for the mirage.  The weaknesses of this trait is that the mirage cloak and ambush will only be available on a single clone only. No                                more ambushes with 3 clones.  The low health pool is a weakness, And dummy movement AI.  But I believe this is all fair considering the dps potential of this clone.                                 Mirage will truly be a clone spec, have viable power dps option, and will make the caster a little easier to hide in his clones as stated was the original concept idea.

2. Nomad's Endurance- Shatter skills give vigor, which grants Condition damage.
   • This should be changed to give +150 condition damage OR power, depending on which stat is highest for the player. As a minor it should be a viable option for bothcondition users and power builds.

3. Desert Distortion- Illusions shattered by Distortion become Mirage Mirrors. Ambush skills become available for a short time whenever you grant distortion to yourself.

   • Most people do not want to run around collecting power ups on the ground in an MMO, especiallly when they are out of the way. As stated many times by thecommunity already, mirrors aren't fun and are not very useful. This is a cool trait, but it's a cool trait for a terrible mechanic.

   • This trait seems to be about survivability by giving the caster more evasion. I propose it redesigned to give survivability through clone death. When clones die, theywill create small areas of quicksand that persist for 2 second and causing 1 second of slow for enemies that stand in it. It could be changed to cripple and/orweakness. The effect should be that of soft CC condition. It falls in line with the desert theme.

With these change, I see mirage build users as whole will be able to use all of their skills in all game modes. Skills that never get used in raids because they are a dps loss will get use. A simple example would be just being able to use sword block or scepter block, to block a big attack, to save yourself without it being a big dps loss cause of the clone spawned. And in pvp or wvw, being able to mix onself in with a clone that is casting weapon skills while moving toward their target. These changes will create a more unique experience for mirage, and overcome some of the limitations of base mesmer.

Thank you.

*

****

TLDR: Mirages will maximize dps using phantasms and one clone. the one clone will copy the mirage's weapon skills and damage. So using clone summoning skills won't be a dps loss and will make playing mirage more fun.

The changes to Infinite Horizon you are requesting are horrible. if you want to nerf Mirage to useless ness then do that , otherwise horrible. If they want to weaken Mirage without breaking it then target axe skills and related traits.

you bumped this two month old post to say that? lol okay. thanks for your input.

[Daishi.6027]

edit: lol didn't notice necro

Almost December after a balance patch, I'd like to highlight my disappointment that power mirage isn't a viable thing in pve