Changes to Istan Meta Farming (Discussion)

[Khisanth.2948]

It would mostly be a buff for me so hurray I guess?If I was farming this before still no big deal. Just move on to whatever the new things becomes.

Back in my days(shakes cane at all the whippersnappers) we had to travel around the world and even guest to other servers to do our farming.

[LucianDK.8615]

Way too profitable maps needs to get the hammer where it hurts. The rewards of istan was out of whack.

[Okami Amaterasu.9237]

Personally I feel that if the community that was fostered by grinding out Awakened mobs minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day, is complaining that they won't spend as much time together, then it isn't as close-knit and tight of a community as they're saying it is.

If you're concerned about playing with your friends, then have some fun and play with your friends! If you're concerned about making gold, then play and make yourself some gold. But don't intertwine the two as if they're inseparable. You can still make your gold and/or play with your friends in Domain of Istan or almost any other level 80 map you choose. It's just that Now, it won't be as mind-numbingly dull and tiresome to expect to play in only one map all day long because "that's where the gold farm is" or "that's where all my friends play". Why not add some variety to both?

[Teratus.2859]

@Doo Lally.8594 said:Perfectly acceptable to me personally as I only ever run it once through every so often. An increase in rewards for that one run is also a nice bonus.

This is my thinking too..

I've recently been doing achievements in the Istan map which has also resulted in me joining the map meta in order to farm up Kralkanite ore and Volatile Magic.I still have 3 living world season 4 map nodes to buy and some Karma drop upgrades as well so I need at least a good 40-50k Volatile magic which does take me a while to save up.

The problems I'm having with the Daybreak release are firstly that the Sunk Cost achievement is bugged and participation for sinking the Scoundrels Bounty will not register to complete the achievement leaving me stuck at 2/3 progression no matter how many times I sink that ship.Another problem is that chests spawned during the meta's are sometimes bugged too and spawn open thus being unable to be looted.. annoying.And lastly is that compared the the overall amount I'd need to complete the Astril and Stellar sets.. the amount of Kralkanite Ore that drops from the 3 Meta chests is absolutely pathetic.3 meta chests.. 15 ore each per day.. and I don't have the Karma to be wasting on the heart venders daily 25 ore bundles either so when you factor in I need over 16,000 ore to complete these weapons sets i'm looking at several months of daily farming to earn enough ore..I cant stress enough how absurd that is.. nor how pointless it is at this point for older map currencies like Kralkanite ore and winterberries etc to still be account bound.

I'm glad this update is going to increase those daily rewards.. but Anet should also consider stripping some of these older items of their account bound status and let us sell them.Grenth knows how many of us would kill to be able to sell all that excess bloodstone dust and dragonite ore etc as well.

[Crackmonster.2790]

@"Empanda.4617" said:So ok I understand why you'd want to nerf istan but I'd just like to say Anet, you released the new chapter, full of bugs and crashes. You haven't fixed THAT yet, but you want to change istan, a map grind that people actually enjoy. Now its hard not to be salty about this after experiencing the new chapter and all the bugs, glitches and crashes. Are you POSITIVE, you want to change istan before you fix that new map and story instances where people can get stuck in rocks and crystals in the story instances, dwarven plates don't drop all the time or drop multiple time for the same person messing it up for the other players who need it? Are you POSITIVE you want to change it before you change the fact that you've released broken material that you expect us to be ok with? Like don't get me wrong the istan grind is OP, but at least its not SO broken it's not enjoyable like the new map is. I think you should look at the bad broken map and story you've released before dislocating hundreds of players from their happy grinding area. Now as a coder I know its not that simple, but as a player I have to say this isn't the best way to make your players happy at the moment.

I know this may not be the most popular opinion either.

This is a textbook example of "all who gain power are afraid to lose it".

No wonder people like it, it's so rewarding you can just keep doing that. It is devaluating all lesser content by being overtuned. Don't get me wrong, i enjoy it too but because its so very rewarding we all want more more more don't we. Matter of fact, i learned about changes while farming it.

This is not to mention that so many increasingly rewarding things are put in game things had gotten so much easier to acquire now, i am happy to see it dialled back i dont want everything to be too easy to get, already gw2 isn't a game where it's super hard to get stuff, no need reach more towards welfare everything.

[Etria.3642]

Ok, so after my first kneejerk 'This is /awful/' reaction, I can see the limitation on Pala. Ok, fine. But gh too? Jeez, at least let us do a few gh's before our daily Pala. One is ridiculous. I will really miss the commanders I've come to know. BeastRoll, Papyrus, Amara(might be spelling some of those incorrectly) to name just a few, are /really/ helpful and knowledgeable, not just about Istan but the game.

Actually, yeah, I think my reaction was the proper one. This is awful.

[Hybarf Tics.2048]

Here in GW 2 it's forbidden to wear sexy armors, forbidden to make money, forbidden to farm for mats, forbidden to do metas, forbidden to have fun as long as you take out your wallet and go shopping we're fine with that. B)

[MMOStein.3872]

I do feel this farm should be nerfed, but only if they actually make all the other Meta farms relevant. I like Istan because it is a structured community event that I can farm consistent gold income. Most farms in the game that were consistent attracted the community....because they were consistent (the Lake Doric the popular gold farm for S3.....until it wasn't). I believe there should be at LEAST one competetive and consistent meta farm for every season/expansion, for example:

Core maps - World bossesS2- SilverwastesHoT- Auric Basin AND Dragon Stand (both these events are super fun)S3- Lake DoricPoF- legendary Bounty hunting/Treasure mapsS4- Istan

This way it will give people many (but not TOO many) competitive farms to choose from, making the game less boring for many who don't want to stay on istan for...forever, because its the only relevant gold farm. It will also create a larger community of people who want to tag up and command these groups, learning how to command each of these lucrative Metas would be a challenge I could see some people wanting to take on.

Attaching cool traits to these farms could also be a nice incentive to pick one over the other, like what if each farm had a unique loot table. For example:World bosses

• Extremely low chance to drop one random legendary weapon/armor. Maybe only a few people a day will ever see a drop like this but people can go on the forum/reddit and goat when it does happen because its so cool.-Low chance to drop random Gem store item ( keys, wardrobe skin, random outfit, random permanent gathering tool, 100 raw gems, etc)Silverwastes-Low chance for "ancient treasure" that contains 100 gold (to go with the whole "treasure hunting" theme of the Skritt)HoT-Low chance to drop random HoT related exotic/acended gear piece (like Auric weapons)-Chance for a bundle of a HoT map currencyS3-Low chance to drop random ascended trinket-Chance for a bundle of unbound magicPoF-Low chance for random ascended weapon.
• Low chance items related to PvP, WvW, and Fractals (like agony resistance, etc)S4-Low chance for random ascended armor piece or S4 exotics (like Requiem)-Chance for a bundle volitile magic.

Now I came up with these off the top of my head, but you should get the general idea, which is more cool and desired loot. You may say "those rewards are way too good"! Yeah, that's the point....they are REWARDS. They should be inciting, not more green trash for the salvage tool. It should be an extra incentive that makes you want pick one of these farms, because you just might get something really neat. If the rewards are too mediocre (like they are now...) or the droprates are so low it becomes a non-factor (like black lion keys...), then it defeats the purpose of it being an incentive. So yes, put some tasty treats in the drop table, please.

Just a my thoughts on how to make meta farming in this game more relevant and enjoyable. If their goal is to get people to stop spamming Istan meta, then maybe they should look more into buffing the rest of the meta farms, instead of nerfing yet another relevant meta to the ground. All I do is farm metas in this game because I like being out in the open world, but being on Istan for the last year has become stale and that's only because it is the only farm tha'ts worth doing in comparison to all the others. Honestly I can write an entire wall of text on this but I'ma stop, if Anet actually asked for feedback then I would go into full detail on how I would improve meta farming.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@"Okami Amaterasu.9237" said:Personally I feel that if the community that was fostered by grinding out Awakened mobs minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day, is complaining that they won't spend as much time together, then it isn't as close-knit and tight of a community as they're saying it is.

If you're concerned about playing with your friends, then have some fun and play with your friends! If you're concerned about making gold, then play and make yourself some gold. But don't intertwine the two as if they're inseparable. You can still make your gold and/or play with your friends in Domain of Istan or almost any other level 80 map you choose. It's just that Now, it won't be as mind-numbingly dull and tiresome to expect to play in only one map all day long because "that's where the gold farm is" or "that's where all my friends play". Why not add some variety to both?

Okay so, you don't have to tell me that. Or Jim. or Susie Q. Individually anyone can go find something else to do, with our IRL or small group of friends.

However, when the basis of multiple communities is centered around a certain activity, and that activity is gone, those thousands of people aren't going to just flock to the same next activity. That's not how people work, and it would be robotic and inhumane to assume such.

The concern here lies with the players who didn't have other friends in this game, or didn't have the courage to speak up until they found us. They now go back to where they came from, because what they saw as their one chance to be social with complete strangers in this game and actually get friendly responses back, is gone.

Now, when you finish telling me, Jim, and Susie Q what we as players should be doing, go tell that to 2000 other people. And when you finish, contemplate why it's your place to tell us where we should be playing.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:Yeah, I'm out too. I enjoyed commanding Istan for the time that I did, and even purchased both sets of commander tags just to help accelerate the community here. But this is just a slap in the face to the people who really work hard to earn their gold here.

No one was cheating/exploting.

No one broke TOS.

No one AFK'd for their money.

Yet, here we are. I'm gonna log in, raid, and log right back out of here. There's no reason to keep trying to bring hundreds of people together, in an active, successful, team effort after this.

I devoted a lot of time to learning to command that farm. And the way I do it takes a lot of communication between all its participants and yields results that scale with the effort put in by everyone. All that is gone now.

And that right there perfectly describes why this is a problem. What @SpinDashMaster.5680 is describing is exactly what the devs should be working towards supporting and encouraging. A player tagging up to lead a mass of other players in a map event. That is exactly what makes GW2 such a great game compared to other MMOs. Why they, out of the blue, decide this practice must be curbed is beyond me.

I'd love to meet the vast throngs of GW2 players complaining that they have no choice to but farm Istan 24/7 and that it ruins their fun. SMH.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

Even I agree, there are other things to do than this farm. However, it's wrong to tell someone that they shouldn't farm a map 24/7 if that's what they want to do.

[xFlashx.6247]

An absolut disaster.

Why are you doing a grave of this Map? Gold farming is the life essence on this map - without nobody would playing it.In my opinion are SW and Istan the only active maps in the entire game.

Playing a meta there und here is like... just an 5 min event. And after that? Entire maps are completly empty after a meta ended, isn't that sad? why would you do something like that? I play Istan for more variation in farming Gold. It is actually fun farming gold with all the differents events like: carawan, pirates, akili, bob, great hall and palawadan. It's so nice to have such a wide varity. SW - the only other option: is boring like hell. In SW are you doing the same stuff over and over again and I mean the very same stuff (you all know how it works).

I don't want chopp down10.000 trees for 80g or WvW or PvP thats just not fun. I am mostly a soloplayer who hates puzzles so fractals are out too.Only raids would be an alternative but without ascended gear it will not work.

And now tell me a effective funny farming method for actually playing the game that is not wasted time...

You Anet put me in a really difficult situation.ALL(literally everything) my gold is from Istan what after that?I can't buy anything in the future?Why am I playing this game in the first place when I can't choose a farming method thats fun for me?Why are you trying to force me to do something that I don't like?I think about that since I heard this sorry... b****.

[Krew.3081]

What a shame. Not supporting this change at all. I enjoyed being able to farm gold and I've met lots of people there. What a SHAME!

[Abelisk.4527]

@Hybarf Tics.2048 said:Here in GW 2 it's forbidden to wear sexy armors, forbidden to make money, forbidden to farm for mats, forbidden to do metas, forbidden to have fun as long as you take out your wallet and go shopping we're fine with that. B)

Funny because all of this was possible before Living Story Season 4.

[Crackmonster.2790]

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:Also the amount they're increasing the loot isn't going to incentivize doing GH at all. That meta will die.

The organized communities I have previously mentioned, as well as myself, can all trigger AND complete 5-8 GH events within a 70-minute time frame (the time after palawadan ends [Reset+2x+1 : 20] until 15 minutes before the next palawadan begins [Reset + 2x : 30]).

But features like these are so damaging from the community, it promotes elitism in attitudes and requirements to get in and rewards the top percentages of players with exponentially more rewards.

Ideally a game should reward honest straightforward play, and seek to limit all those who do all they can to abuse the game mechanics the most to get more than everyone else that plays normally as the game experience was designed for.

[phs.6089]

Well, VM from mobs and PPs didn't get nerfed and champs was back on Akili last time I checked, Unids got limited, that is minus some gold per hour. Lets see how it will go, no need to panic.Otherwise SW is still there if not we will go back to Orr.

[Obtena.7952]

I get that Anet doesn't want zerg farming Istan .... but that zerg is just going to go to the next most lucrative area in the game ... Silverwastes still?

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:And yeah just in case I didn't make this clear enough on behalf of the silent majority: There's a lot of us who rely on that map for having something common we can all do together, that doesn't have the barrier-to-entry stigma that raids and fractals have.

That doesn't go away if Anet makes this change. You just go somewhere else.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@Crackmonster.2790 said:But features like these are so damaging from the community, it promotes elitism in attitudes and requirements to get in and rewards the top percentages of players with exponentially more rewards.

Ideally a game should reward honest straightforward play, and seek to limit all those who do all they can to abuse the game mechanics the most.

Okay so there's three angles from which I'd like to approach your point. First I'm going to address your remark about rewards. Then, I'll handle the elitism. Lastly we'll talk mechanics.

First, even if I get super lucky and hit all 8 GH events, me and my 100-125 people are still going to come up short of a silverwastes commander. The math's been done on that. What we are doing here, even if you perceive it as rewards given only to the best of the best, is still not nearly as destructive as you think, because a more rewarding farm has existed far longer than Istan: Silverwastes.

Secondly, the best rewards from Istan are not for the elite few. Not once have I kicked a person from my Istan squads for low DPS/performance/anything of the sort. The only thing you get kicked for in Istan is being offline too long, so I can replace you with an online person begging to get in. Anyone who has farmed istan with these groups knows they would never get talked down to, and the healthy communities that have formed as a result wouldn't have their reputation if commanders behaved that way. Istan is a team effort, and it rewards players for speaking up and working together as situations arise. There is literally zero barrier to entry: you come as you are, learn as you go, and unlike other farms, have fun while doing it!

Lastly, you seem to have this perception that there's some kind of game mechanic level play that's being exploited. The only thing we do in Istan that might get perceived as such is using alt accounts to anchor maps and the act of changing maps frequently. Neither of these actions are against TOS, nor are they exploiting glitches of any kind. In fact, this kind of behavior already exists in Silverwastes farm, and no one ever complains about nor notices it.

In summary, Istan farm, even at it's highest level, is honest and straightforward. It is a misconception if you believe otherwise.

[Okami Amaterasu.9237]

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@"Okami Amaterasu.9237" said:Personally I feel that if the community that was fostered by grinding out Awakened mobs minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day, is complaining that they won't spend as much time together, then it isn't as close-knit and tight of a community as they're saying it is.

If you're concerned about playing with your friends, then have some fun and play with your friends! If you're concerned about making gold, then play and make yourself some gold. But don't intertwine the two as if they're inseparable. You can still make your gold and/or play with your friends in Domain of Istan or almost any other level 80 map you choose. It's just that Now, it won't be as mind-numbingly dull and tiresome to expect to play in only one map all day long because "that's where the gold farm is" or "that's where all my friends play". Why not add some variety to both?

Okay so, you don't have to tell me that. Or Jim. or Susie Q. Individually anyone can go find something else to do, with our IRL or small group of friends.

However, when the basis of multiple communities is centered around a certain activity, and that activity is gone, those thousands of people aren't going to just flock to the same next activity. That's not how people work, and it would be robotic and inhumane to assume such.

The concern here lies with the players who didn't have other friends in this game, or didn't have the courage to speak up until they found us. They now go back to where they came from, because what they saw as their one chance to be social with complete strangers in this game and actually get friendly responses back, is gone.

Now, when you finish telling me, Jim, and Susie Q what we as players should be doing, go tell that to 2000 other people. And when you finish, contemplate why it's your place to tell us where we should be playing.

I didn't say you could No Longer play in DoI, just that Anet probably wants it to feel like less of a chore. I'm assuming they want people to spread out across the LWS4 maps for your VM farming and Unidentified Gear farming, though the latter I'm not as familiar with.

The activity isn't "gone" it's just not as profitable to do it all day, every single day. You can fight the Claw of Jormag every few hours and meet people who enjoy taking on the ice dragon lieutenant All the time, but it just won't be as profitable to do it more than once a day. I think that's the same principle finally being put into practice here. It's meant to encourage players to do more with their time than join farm trains if "gold farming" is their priority. However if you just want to smack Awakened upside their rotting heads, you can still do that, all day even if you want.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that every piece of open-world PvE content in GW2 is friendly towards letting people join up together and do activities together. I don't know why exactly you think Domain of Istan was "their one chance to be social" in the whole game and that it was the only place they'd "actually get friendly responses back". Maybe they just had an unlucky experience, but GW2's been the most friendly, social game I've ever played. If you're concerned about some people who might not have anyone else to interact with, then add them as a friend and message them or send them mail or invite them to a guild. Anet made a good foundation for letting players naturally work together instead of against each other in PvE (with instanced nodes and event-scaling and level-scaling), but if some people don't want to socialize and keep in touch with each other, that's not Anet's job.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

Maybe concentrate on fixing the Path of Fire Metas that people have mentioned since it came out.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@Okami Amaterasu.9237 said:

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@Okami Amaterasu.9237 said:Personally I feel that if the community that was fostered by grinding out Awakened mobs minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day, is complaining that they won't spend as much time together, then it isn't as close-knit and tight of a community as they're saying it is.

If you're concerned about playing with your friends, then have some fun and play with your friends! If you're concerned about making gold, then play and make yourself some gold. But don't intertwine the two as if they're inseparable. You can still make your gold and/or play with your friends in Domain of Istan or almost any other level 80 map you choose. It's just that Now, it won't be as mind-numbingly dull and tiresome to expect to play in only one map all day long because "that's where the gold farm is" or "that's where all my friends play". Why not add some variety to both?

Okay so, you don't have to tell me that. Or Jim. or Susie Q. Individually anyone can go find something else to do, with our IRL or small group of friends.

However, when the basis of multiple communities is centered around a certain activity, and that activity is gone, those thousands of people aren't going to just flock to the same next activity. That's not how people work, and it would be robotic and inhumane to assume such.

The concern here lies with the players who didn't have other friends in this game, or didn't have the courage to speak up until they found us. They now go back to where they came from, because what they saw as their one chance to be social with complete strangers in this game and actually get friendly responses back, is gone.

Now, when you finish telling me, Jim, and Susie Q what we as players should be doing, go tell that to 2000 other people. And when you finish, contemplate why it's your place to tell us where we should be playing.

I didn't say you could No Longer play in DoI, just that Anet probably wants it to feel like less of a chore. I'm assuming they want people to spread out across the LWS4 maps for your VM farming and Unidentified Gear farming, though the latter I'm not as familiar with.

The activity isn't "gone" it's just not as profitable to do it all day, every single day. You can fight the Claw of Jormag every few hours and meet people who enjoy taking on the ice dragon lieutenant All the time, but it just won't be as profitable to do it more than once a day. I think that's the same principle finally being put into practice here. It's meant to encourage players to do more with their time than join farm trains if "gold farming" is their priority. However if you just want to smack Awakened upside their rotting heads, you can still do that, all day even if you want.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that every piece of open-world PvE content in GW2 is friendly towards letting people join up together and do activities together. I don't know why exactly you think Domain of Istan was "their one chance to be social" in the whole game and that it was the only place they'd "actually get friendly responses back". Maybe they just had an unlucky experience, but GW2's been the most friendly, social game I've ever played. If you're concerned about some people who might not have anyone else to interact with, then add them as a friend and message them or send them mail or invite them to a guild. Anet made a good foundation for letting players naturally work together instead of against each other in PvE (with instanced nodes and event-scaling and level-scaling), but if some people don't want to socialize and keep in touch with each other, that's not Anet's job.

Again, your plan works when addressing 4-5 people. It does not when you're addressing 2000.

Same response to @Obtena.7952

[Khisanth.2948]

@Teratus.2859 said:Another problem is that chests spawned during the meta's are sometimes bugged too and spawn open thus being unable to be looted.. annoying.

The chests spawning already opened is from their previous fix was only supposed to remove multi-loot and requires participating in the chests' associated phase. A relatively easy work around for that which works most of the time is to go to character select and log back in assuming you are not in a full instance.

And lastly is that compared the the overall amount I'd need to complete the Astril and Stellar sets.. the amount of Kralkanite Ore that drops from the 3 Meta chests is absolutely pathetic.3 meta chests.. 15 ore each per day.. and I don't have the Karma to be wasting on the heart venders daily 25 ore bundles either so when you factor in I need over 16,000 ore to complete these weapons sets i'm looking at several months of daily farming to earn enough ore..I cant stress enough how absurd that is.. nor how pointless it is at this point for older map currencies like Kralkanite ore and winterberries etc to still be account bound.

You are doing Istan without any Karmic Retribution buff? O_oLowest tier only requires 5g and 1000 VM

I'm glad this update is going to increase those daily rewards.. but Anet should also consider stripping some of these older items of their account bound status and let us sell them.Grenth knows how many of us would kill to be able to sell all that excess bloodstone dust and dragonite ore etc as well.

Selling a stack of those will probably get you 2s50c and you might have to wait a while for it to sell. Just look at Eye of Kormir as a model.

[Okami Amaterasu.9237]

@"SpinDashMaster.5680" said:Again, your plan works when addressing 4-5 people. It does not when you're addressing 2000.

Well, that's life. You can't easily, if at all possibly, keep in real touch with hundreds or even thousands of people. What do you expect Anet to do instead? Promote people to spend all of their game time in just One map every day until a better one for gold-farming comes up? That's not socializing, that's busy work. Why couldn't people socialize on the other maps, even with a lower, less "swarmed" population?

[Klypto.1703]

Basically the continued bandwagon of people who don't play it so they are saying nerf it nerf it thinking that will get people to do fractals, pvp, or wvw but in reality just find another game to play being that no one wants to play these dead boring maps or be forced into elitists in other game modes.

[Advance Corporal.3648]

With all due respect to ArenaNet, I would like to take the chance to give feedback here. I'm not bothered that too many rewards may be cut. Not at all. On the other hand, I'm bothered with the first sentence.--> "Our goal is for content like the Istan Metas to be a part of your daily play-cycle, without it becoming your entire play-cycle."

It just sounds like you're trying to tell players what to play or which content to play. I don't want to play daily meta-cycles. I don't feel like it. It's also questionable whether I'll actually find people on the other maps of the living world at the time I come to play. On Istan I can be sure to find these people right now. And it's a freaking amusing community that's formed there. Why can't I stupidly play the content I like 24/7? Where I can relax? It just sounds like "we're changing that now so you'll have to play our other (rather empty) maps as well".Adjusting the amount of rewards a little bit is fine with me. I also think it's okay if you don't "multiloot" if you weren't involved in the meta on the other map. But this way? With the regularly recurring events every few hours?Sorry, I don't think that's okay. I just hope that the map doesn't die out because of that. I don't think it's okay that I should be " dictated " here, that I shouldn't play the same content 24/7 over and over again. Sad.