Changes to Istan Meta Farming (Discussion)

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@Obtena.7952 said:Wait hold on ... so how does your claim that nerfing rewards in an area will make people quit if they aren't going there for the superior rewards in the first place? That makes no sense.

Because the rewards from SW aren't that much superior. It's a lower enough difference that people are willing to tolerate because the map is more fun due to its social aspects.

[Blocki.4931]

I think what gets me the most is.. we all know how that loot increase is going to turn out.

One or two more rare items and that's it.

Can we make World Bosses more rewarding in the same patch at least? Since those are 1 a day as well

[Obtena.7952]

So again, these unique social aspects and teamwork is what? You post really didn't explain what they were, just that 'something' other than loot was driving people to farm Istan. Maybe that something isn't a good thing in the first place. The same complexities you describe for splitting and teaming in Istan are also in Silverwastes. I would say moreso.

In fact, I can't think of where you need to split forces to be successful in Istan. The palace is a big zerg ... the temple is too. Nothing depends on timing events together; it's all very serial events happening ... I just don't see this advanced level of co-operation you are talking about in Istan. If you want to understand and experience map-wide co-operation and timing, then you should be hitting ANY HoT map. The pinnacle of those things is certainly not Istan.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

I really did explain, though, you just clipped the quote and responded to only the first sentence. I strongly suggest you go back and give that another read.

[Electra.7530]

There are players and then there are farmers. I understand that some people want to just farm for gold. I don't really like hard core gold farming and gold farmers have ruined many games I've played. This is not one of them. And there are people that farm gold and sell it. I suspect there is more concern with that than there is with the people who are farming all day and all night for gold to buy things they need to make ascended gear or weapons. The people running this game are truly diligent and I'm very impressed with their care and attention to this game.

[sarkysek.1085]

ArenaNet finally doing what should've already been done months ago ;) Thanks! <3

[Jeknar.6184]

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:Lastly, I know you're having a hard time seeing why Istan farm is uniquely seen as social. But I strongly suggest you get a viewpoint from the communities that exist there before you take that stance. Istan does have the aura of a friendly farm, with friendly people, and even players helping players within the squad, teaching each other, learning and growing together about improving efficiency and why certain people have to break off and handle tasks, in something that did feel like an extended family.

Idk man, the only social contact I ever had with Istan farmers was some commander raging at me for being tagged up doing bounties because his squad wasn't being able to make it to the map because it was full...

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@Obtena.7952 said:I've yet to be at a Istan farming session where you have to do more than just follow the Commander and tag mobs. Istan has NOTHING like the level of complexity being claimed. THAT is why people farm it. Because it's stupid simple and easy loot. If people wanted complex map co-operation and social interactions, they would be in HoT, not Istan.

If you do a casually paced Istan farm with a commander that isn't familiar with the pressure of fast multimapping, your perspective is correct.

However, it stands to reason at this point that you hadn't experienced Istan Farm with the communities I've mentioned, or with me. That's why you have the perspective you have and why you don't see it as social. If you ever played with one of us, you'd have seen the difference in the loot, and the effort, and the fun.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:Lastly, I know you're having a hard time seeing why Istan farm is uniquely seen as social. But I strongly suggest you get a viewpoint from the communities that exist there before you take that stance. Istan does have the aura of a friendly farm, with friendly people, and even players helping players within the squad, teaching each other, learning and growing together about improving efficiency and why certain people have to break off and handle tasks, in something that did feel like an extended family.

Idk man, the only social contact I ever had with Istan farmers was some commander raging at me for being tagged up doing bounties because his squad wasn't being able to make it to the map because it was full...

Now that is a problem. I'm sorry that happened to you. If I were in that commander's shoes I'd have asked politely first. But, I can't control how everyone's going to act, nor can one hold an entire community responsible for the actions of one commander.

But I promise you your perspective is also off, because you're not in the squads forming Istan, so you're not seeing the social interactions.

[Electra.7530]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

In fact, I can't think of where you need to split forces to be successful in Istan. The palace is a big zerg ... the temple is too. Nothing depends on timing events together; it's all very serial events happening ... I just don't see this advanced level of co-operation you are talking about in Istan.

Lol this comment here made me realize you have absolutely 0 idea what you are talking about and everything you say should be disregarded.

I've yet to be at a Istan farming session where you have to do more than just follow the Commander and tag mobs. Istan has NOTHING like the level of complexity being claimed. THAT is why people farm it. Because it's stupid simple and easy loot; it appeals to the lowest common denominator. If most people wanted complex map co-operation, teamwork and social interactions, then most people would be in HoT, not Istan.

People farm Istan hard because it's too easy and too rewarding with a zerg. Fixed. Thanks Anet.

I have to agree. I stumbled onto the map in the middle of a meta and followed the tag, rushed here, rushed there, opened the chests, killed the boss. Reset, did it again a few more times. Got bored, left, did other things in game.

[Emberstone.2904]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

In fact, I can't think of where you need to split forces to be successful in Istan. The palace is a big zerg ... the temple is too. Nothing depends on timing events together; it's all very serial events happening ... I just don't see this advanced level of co-operation you are talking about in Istan.

Lol this comment here made me realize you have absolutely 0 idea what you are talking about and everything you say should be disregarded.

I've yet to be at a Istan farming session where you have to do more than just follow the Commander and tag mobs. Istan has NOTHING like the level of complexity being claimed. THAT is why people farm it. Because it's stupid simple and easy loot; it appeals to the lowest common denominator. If most people wanted complex map co-operation, teamwork and social interactions, then most people would be in HoT, not Istan.

People farm Istan hard because it's too easy and too rewarding with a zerg. Fixed. Thanks Anet.

I love it when someone tries to deny the experiences of others.

[Obtena.7952]

Right, you guys got this all figured out .... people join zerg farms in zones that reward them with less loot and are harder to play that other zones ... makes so much sense now. :astonished:

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I've yet to be at a Istan farming session where you have to do more than just follow the Commander and tag mobs. Istan has NOTHING like the level of complexity being claimed. THAT is why people farm it. Because it's stupid simple and easy loot. If people wanted complex map co-operation and social interactions, they would be in HoT, not Istan.

If you do a casually paced Istan farm with a commander that isn't familiar with the pressure of fast multimapping, your perspective is correct.

However, it stands to reason at this point that you hadn't experienced Istan Farm with the communities I've mentioned, or with me. That's why you have the perspective you have and why you don't see it as social. If you ever played with one of us, you'd have seen the difference in the loot, and the effort, and the fun.

Let me rewind you back 3 years when AB got nerfed for multi mapping ... the perspective I have is that I associate difficulty and co-operation with hard to play, not herding sheep to different zones.

No, multimapping doesn't make Istan any more socially engaging or difficult to complete as a complex zone than multimapping Queensdale for champs. The zone itself is scrub level easy.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

I'm just gonna C/P this one because you clearly missed the discussion only just earlier about AB.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/806284/#Comment_806284

[Willowsheart.7940]

I see people talking Istan......but the OP says istan and OTHER meta's............I love the silverwastes RIBA and have fun chatting and running with everyone. :(

[Omega.6801]

Cap'ing chests ìn Istan will not populate the rest of PoF/LS4 maps on its own. The rest of PoF/LS4 is low on population if not organized because there's either not much to do or what there is to do is hardly worth anyone's time.

There are ppl who actually like the Istan farm, there's a community built around it and while it can be argued, that this community is built on farming and that the same ppl will find eachother in other maps, this will not solve the "problem" that grinders gonna grind and farmers gonna farm. I don't even consider this a problem. Let them have the fun.

I'm getting the vibe that this nerf and Gaile's kind words are more coorperate speak than anything else. It feels like some accountant took a look at some charts and decided that this farm is too lucrative and too available to players and harms gem2gold transfers.

Why has nothing the like happened to the SW-RIBA-Farms or the EotM Karma-Train?

Id rather have them rework Kourna or the PoF-Maps to have actual Meta events on a timer so ppl can organize themselves. I know that this was a main point of criticism in HoT, but at least for me, the timed metas seem more populated now than the "somewhat 30min after the last time the event finished maybe" kind of event like we se in the desolation.

Players aren't not playing in the new maps or all of PoF/LS4 because they spend their day in Istan. They spend their day in Istan because there's nothing like it in PoF/LS4. Restricting the map will not bring ppl into other maps, it will make ppl log off sooner.

Should this be about economy more than content "be a part of your daily play-cycle, without it becoming your entire play-cycle" it would feel much more honest if they said so. It feels like when they "adjusted" dungeon rewards with the release of HoT to force-funnel ppl into the new maps. Sorry again Gaile, but I don't buy it.

Istan was the only map in LS4 that had lots of players playing it even after the AP farmers and the "I'll play the story and complete the map"-crowd left. Sure, the ppl stayed because of the loot, but doesn't that also count asplayers engaging in content? Why force-funnel ppl away from content they like?

Would it help if we bought more mountskins?

[perilisk.1874]

Encouraging people to grind by dangling rewards in front of them promotes burnout and psychologically unhealthy gameplay. The first and foremost reward from playing content should always be playing the content. The material rewards should be the icing on the cake, and rarely the spoonful of sugar in the medicine.

The fact that people are going to quit if rewards are cut back shows that it was never about enjoying the content, but only about running around in circles and watching numbers go up.

[Obtena.7952]

@"SpinDashMaster.5680" said:I'm just gonna C/P this one because you clearly missed the discussion only just earlier about AB.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/806284/#Comment_806284

Didn't miss it, just don't think it's irrelevant. You're using multimapping as the premise to claim Istan is complex and requires lots of teamwork. That's not a reflection of the CONTENT of the map, but a reflection of the difficulty in EXPLOITING multimapping to get fast, easy loot for the herd; I can use that same logic to say Queensdale champ farming is complex and requires teamwork AT THE SAME LEVEL of Istan.

The fact is that Istan content itself is a bit of a joke. It offers no timing of events, it offers no difficulty or mechanics that discourage the zerg, it's completely serialized so there is no choice or splitting. There is no overlap of events. It's pure zerg mechanics, period.

This doesn't change the fact it's ridiculous to claim most people are preferentially zerg farming Istan despite your claims it's lower loot rates and harder to do. That makes no sense. Zerg farmers don't choose maps to farm because they offer lower loot and are harder to play.

[LucianDK.8615]

People do istan because its braindead easy, theres none of the evolved socialiteness going on. and ive too seen commanders frothing with rage because others dared to fill their farm map.

[Lexi.1398]

Maybe it'll encourage them to finally bring the great hall PoI above amala's chamber on top of the hall so i don't have to wait for GH meta to finish map completion, but that's just wishful thinking. As someone who only visits istan for map complete to specifically avoid farmers (zerg = fps goes to about 5-9 from average 20-35 in other maps including SW @ vinewrath and prime time HoT metas) i'm 50/50,

I, personally, will be glad to see it be killed so I can consider spending more time in istan than i require for map completion. Not like farmers can't go to SW afterall, which as far as im aware brings almost the same g per hour if done for an extended period of time- all i remember is mixed results from comparisons done between the two. Yeah, people will complain ofc but I think SW can heal any wounds just fine.

On the other hand, unless my experience is more universal than i'm aware of, I don't see why intervention was required in the first place. I bought lws3 ep4 before PoF released because leather farming was like the place to be, new people buy the episode to get istan farming too. People can farm as they want to, i think, and unless that causes an issue for other people's enjoyment of the game then it doesn't need to be changed imo. All it will bring is complaint after complaint and steer people away for what gain?

[Kumbaya.4689]

@"Lexi.1398" said:

I bought lws3 ep4 before PoF released because leather farming was like the place to be, new people buy the episode to get istan farming too.

"Teleport to Friend" works too

[Apolo.5942]

Dont like it, this becoming less efficient means yet more grind in an already grind heavy game.

[Lexi.1398]

@linamaria.1830 said:

@"Lexi.1398" said:

I bought lws3 ep4 before PoF released because leather farming was like the place to be, new people buy the episode to get istan farming too.

"Teleport to Friend" works too

TP to friend gets you the first waypoint in a map and then if you don't have the episode unlocked it immediately kicks you out of the map.

[Microsoft Chad.9462]

                       

[Kumbaya.4689]

@Lexi.1398 said:

@linamaria.1830 said:

@Lexi.1398 said:

I bought lws3 ep4 before PoF released because leather farming was like the place to be, new people buy the episode to get istan farming too.

"Teleport to Friend" works too

TP to friend gets you the first waypoint in a map and then if you don't have the episode unlocked it immediately kicks you out of the map.

Oh right, yeah. My friends actually had the episode when they asked me to TP them. :)

[Microsoft Chad.9462]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"SpinDashMaster.5680" said:I'm just gonna C/P this one because you clearly missed the discussion only just earlier about AB.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/806284/#Comment_806284

Didn't miss it, just don't think it's irrelevant. You're using multimapping as the premise to claim Istan is complex and requires lots of teamwork. That's not a reflection of the CONTENT of the map, but a reflection of the difficulty in EXPLOITING multimapping to get fast, easy loot for the herd; I can use that same logic to say Queensdale champ farming is complex and requires teamwork AT THE SAME LEVEL of Istan.

The fact is that Istan content itself is a bit of a joke. It offers no timing of events, it offers no difficulty or mechanics that discourage the zerg, it's completely serialized so there is no choice or splitting. There is no overlap of events. It's pure zerg mechanics, period.

This doesn't change the fact it's ridiculous to claim most people are preferentially zerg farming Istan despite your claims it's lower loot rates and harder to do. That makes no sense. Zerg farmers don't choose maps to farm because they offer lower loot and are harder to play.

You don't understand why people enjoy Istan, we get it. ^^