Changes to Istan Meta Farming (Discussion)

[Obtena.7952]

Why people enjoy Istan has nothing to do with what is being discussed here.

What's better is that you trying to suggest people don't enjoy Istan for it's easy and significant loot levels. I'm going to simply dismiss that implication.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

I think the aspect you're missing here is that when people get bored they quit. More players are far less likely to have that happen in Istan, for the reasons I've already eloquently explained, and that's why they choose it over SW.

Note: No one said the loot wasn't important. The fact that the loot is important is why we're here talking about it. What we're trying to talk about is how a farm that attracted people who liked to actively farm instead of passively has entirely collapsed.

[LucianDK.8615]

Not like quitting matters in guild wars 2, you dont pay a fee to play like wow. People can come back when they want.

[Microsoft Chad.9462]

@Obtena.7952 said:Why people enjoy Istan has nothing to do with what is being discussed here.

What's better is that you trying to suggest people don't enjoy Istan for it's easy and significant loot levels. I'm going to simply dismiss that implication.

It has everything to do with what's being discussed, people enjoy it, hence the many people voicing in favor of keeping it.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@Etria.3642 said:Ok, so after my first kneejerk 'This is /awful/' reaction, I can see the limitation on Pala. Ok, fine. But gh too? Jeez, at least let us do a few gh's before our daily Pala. One is ridiculous. I will really miss the commanders I've come to know. BeastRoll, Papyrus, Amara(might be spelling some of those incorrectly) to name just a few, are /really/ helpful and knowledgeable, not just about Istan but the game.

Actually, yeah, I think my reaction was the proper one. This is awful.

EEEEEEEE I've been called out in public! <3 u

[Duckota.4769]

@"Obtena.7952" said:I've yet to be at a Istan farming session where you have to do more than just follow the Commander and tag mobs. Istan has NOTHING like the level of complexity being claimed. THAT is why people farm it. Because it's stupid simple and easy loot; it appeals to the lowest common denominator. If most people wanted complex map co-operation, teamwork and social interactions, then most people would be in HoT, not Istan.

People farm Istan hard because it's too easy and too rewarding with a zerg. Fixed. Thanks Anet.

Ive yet to see you fully read a post that addresses anything you try to fire back with either. Yet here we are. He is stating it takes cooperation to get multiple maps completed. Which is true. In almost every instance where a 2nd pala is done it requires 50 people willing to break off from the "normal" Pala route to do a totally different routing for each squad. Otherwise it won't complete on time. -You- have yet to do anything but follow the commander, but others work hard so thats all you have to do. Nobody is claiming its some top tier raid strategy going into Pala, but if its super easy then come lead us to 7 GHs between Palas. Ill be waiting on ya friend. If you're not at least getting a certain amount of GHs Id argue the meta events aren't even worth my time.

[Nekromalistik.7045]

Well, I think I'll have to find something to do in my spare time in another game, thanks anet

[X T D.6458]

Good change, long overdue.

[Microsoft Chad.9462]

                       

[Duckota.4769]

@X T D.6458 said:Good change, long overdue.

No explanation behind statement? What about killing off a map is long overdue?

[Alimar.8760]

While I understand why they're doing what they're doing. I have some points I'd like to make and ask. "Our goal is for content like the Istan Metas to be a part of your daily play-cycle, without it becoming your entire play-cycle. " The way I'm reading it is they want to lower the amount of people constantly playing a specific map. Which I think what they're thinking, will result in an influx of players for other maps and events that have stopped having people attend.

Here are my thoughts:

1. Personally I don't think removing incentive to play a map is the solution to increasing play on others. The simple fact that Anet pulled back on the reigns hard with rewards for events after Istan is very obvious. And one reason why people don't play other maps like Sandswept, and Domain of Kourna, is simply because the events aren't nearly as rewarding to the point it's much more rewarding to do World Boss farming than wait for those metas. The first thing should be done, is to find a balance between rewards and playable incentives. Time-gating rewards on certain maps is understandable, but unless there's a specific exclusive item (Infusions or otherwise) that you can only get from that map. People will be frustrated. Plenty of people do Auric Basin, and Tangled Depths because they're still massively rewarding with exclusive items.
2. They say they're reducing the chests, but are they also reducing the VM rewards and champ bags we can acquire? I liked looting the chests, but honestly, the chests were just icing on the cake so to speak. A lot of the attraction for Istan farming is the Volatile Magic and the champ bags.
3. "...players playing through each meta once will see an increase to their rewards, but repeated runs will be less lucrative." I find punishing people who voluntarily want to play a specific map exclusively is a bad move. Essentially they're expanding on the idea of Drop Reduction (DR) to include event rewards, which in my opinion, is not true to the original intent on the "Play how you want" philosophy.
4. I think we can all agree that the massive amount of farming has lead to lower prices overall in materials. While it might be nice to have the prices increase again. (Personally I cut my losses a long time ago and sold my material investments after Istan.) I wouldn't use price reduction as a sign of a broken economy, or single out Istan. The bigger thing we should be looking at is how bad inflation has gotten and the purchase power of gold overall. If inflation is going up and purchase power going down or plateaued, then reducing rewards of one of the best if not only ways of acquiring a decent revenue in a short time is not the solution. Are people buying more stuff? Are more people generally increasing their account in value? If so, I don't think there's a significant problem here.
5. Referencing above, I've actually talked about this issue with a lot of guild members about the perceived inflation. (I don't have the meta data so I'm not sure if it's just me. But generally things seem to get more expensive over the course of the game.) One thing in particular to spur the economy is more gold sinks. More reasons to spend gold than hoard. If done correctly
6. A lot of people have formed solid communities over the Istan map. Rather than reducing rewards and pulling back on fulfilling events, I would encourage Anet to actually look at Istan and see why people enjoy it. Learn from it and incorporate it into how oncoming events are designed. There's many things in my opinion that could be done to encourage group play without the cost of rewards. And while saying people have made guilds around this isn't a solid argument, I do feel a special connection to those I grew to be friends with during Istan's hay day, and I feel many others will be sad to see the map itself (For lack of a better term.) "die." if the rewards are changed to a point where everyone will abandon it.
7. Question: Isn't Silverwastes comparable to the profit in Istan? I know Silverwastes has been a long standing farm even now during Istan's farming bonanza. But if their thoughts are "Too many people are spending their whole time here." Shouldn't they also be limiting the number of chests you can loot in silverwastes? Why wouldn't/wont they?

Anyways, these are my current thoughts.

TL;DR: Removing Istan as a viable farming option makes sense but I feel the reasons for the nerf as just "Too many people do it," Is not a good reason and should be focused on whether or not it's causing destabilization of the economy.

[X T D.6458]

@Duckota.4769 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Good change, long overdue.

No explanation behind statement? What about killing off a map is long overdue?

They did explain it, they said they don't want people farming it all day. Ab meta not dead, SW not dead. It will be ok I promise. This change was long overdue because these types of high reward low effort events are toxic and always have been, as well as being highly damaging to the market and gold exchange.

[Hybarf Tics.2048]

Less metas = more time collecting t5 and t6, think this through Anet I'll not spend an entire year on a single legendary. Careful what you wish for Anet, if it's killing the game? You're well on your way. :'(

[Obtena.7952]

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:I think the aspect you're missing here is that when people get bored they quit. More players are far less likely to have that happen in Istan, for the reasons I've already eloquently explained, and that's why they choose it over SW.

Note: No one said the loot wasn't important. The fact that the loot is important is why we're here talking about it. What we're trying to talk about is how a farm that attracted people who liked to actively farm instead of passively has entirely collapsed.

Well, then I guess people quitting over losing out on easy, excessive loot is less bad than what Istan delivers to players. Otherwise, Anet wouldn't be changing it.

Players leaving because bored isn't a reason for Anet to not change the game. Selling Istan like the only place players can actively farm is just incorrect.

[Obtena.7952]

@Duckota.4769 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I've yet to be at a Istan farming session where you have to do more than just follow the Commander and tag mobs. Istan has NOTHING like the level of complexity being claimed. THAT is why people farm it. Because it's stupid simple and easy loot; it appeals to the lowest common denominator. If most people wanted complex map co-operation, teamwork and social interactions, then most people would be in HoT, not Istan.

People farm Istan hard because it's too easy and too rewarding with a zerg. Fixed. Thanks Anet.

Ive yet to see you fully read a post that addresses anything you try to fire back with either. Yet here we are. He is stating it takes cooperation to get multiple maps completed. Which is true. In almost every instance where a 2nd pala is done it requires 50 people willing to break off from the "normal" Pala route to do a totally different routing for each squad. Otherwise it won't complete on time. -You- have yet to do anything but follow the commander, but others work hard so thats all you have to do. Nobody is claiming its some top tier raid strategy going into Pala, but if its super easy then come lead us to 7 GHs between Palas. Ill be waiting on ya friend. If you're not at least getting a certain amount of GHs Id argue the meta events aren't even worth my time.

Yeah I get it ... but that doesn't make Istan a complex or uniquely socially interactive map like he claims. Co-ordinating multimapping on Istan is about as complex and 'uniquely' socially interactive as multimapping and farming Queensdale champs. If that is the high standard by which we rate complex and socially interactive in maps, then EVERY map in this game is at least that much if not more so.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@X T D.6458 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Good change, long overdue.

No explanation behind statement? What about killing off a map is long overdue?

They did explain it, they said they don't want people farming it all day. Ab meta not dead, SW not dead. It will be ok I promise. This change was long overdue because these types of high reward low effort events are toxic and always have been, as well as being highly damaging to the market and gold exchange.

He was talking about your statement. You dropped a 1-liner with basically no basis. (Yeah this is a one-liner too, but I made a clear and concise point.)

[X T D.6458]

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Good change, long overdue.

No explanation behind statement? What about killing off a map is long overdue?

They did explain it, they said they don't want people farming it all day. Ab meta not dead, SW not dead. It will be ok I promise. This change was long overdue because these types of high reward low effort events are toxic and always have been, as well as being highly damaging to the market and gold exchange.

He was talking about

your statement

. You dropped a 1-liner with basically no basis. (Yeah this is a one-liner too, but I made a clear and concise point.)

And I answered it.

[Microsoft Chad.9462]

                       

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I've yet to be at a Istan farming session where you have to do more than just follow the Commander and tag mobs. Istan has NOTHING like the level of complexity being claimed. THAT is why people farm it. Because it's stupid simple and easy loot; it appeals to the lowest common denominator. If most people wanted complex map co-operation, teamwork and social interactions, then most people would be in HoT, not Istan.

People farm Istan hard because it's too easy and too rewarding with a zerg. Fixed. Thanks Anet.

Ive yet to see you fully read a post that addresses anything you try to fire back with either. Yet here we are. He is stating it takes cooperation to get multiple maps completed. Which is true. In almost every instance where a 2nd pala is done it requires 50 people willing to break off from the "normal" Pala route to do a totally different routing for each squad. Otherwise it won't complete on time. -You- have yet to do anything but follow the commander, but others work hard so thats all you have to do. Nobody is claiming its some top tier raid strategy going into Pala, but if its super easy then come lead us to 7 GHs between Palas. Ill be waiting on ya friend. If you're not at least getting a certain amount of GHs Id argue the meta events aren't even worth my time.

Yeah I get it ... but that doesn't make Istan a complex or uniquely socially interactive map like he claims. Co-ordinating multimapping on Istan is about as complex and'uniquely' socially interactive as multimapping and farming Queensdale champs.

You've already admitted you haven't seen that type of farm in action though. So you really don't have the place to call someone else's claim, especially mine, since I've commanded Istan for over 8 months, false.

[SpinDashMaster.5680]

@X T D.6458 said:

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Good change, long overdue.

No explanation behind statement? What about killing off a map is long overdue?

They did explain it, they said they don't want people farming it all day. Ab meta not dead, SW not dead. It will be ok I promise. This change was long overdue because these types of high reward low effort events are toxic and always have been, as well as being highly damaging to the market and gold exchange.

He was talking about

your statement

. You dropped a 1-liner with basically no basis. (Yeah this is a one-liner too, but I made a clear and concise point.)

And I answered it.

With a remark about an explanation behind ANet's statement. facepalm Stop and think about your posts for a second.

[Obtena.7952]

@Pandemic.7854 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:I think the aspect you're missing here is that when people get bored they quit. More players are far less likely to have that happen in Istan, for the reasons I've already eloquently explained, and that's why they choose it over SW.

Note: No one said the loot wasn't important. The fact that the loot is important is why we're here talking about it. What we're trying to talk about is how a farm that attracted people who liked to actively farm instead of passively has entirely collapsed.

Well, then I guess people quitting over losing out on easy, excessive loot is less bad than what Istan delivers to players. Otherwise, Anet wouldn't be changing it.

Players leaving because bored isn't a reason for Anet to not change the game. Selling Istan like the only place players can actively farm is just incorrect.

Players leaving = less revenue generated. Very simple, also not dismissable. No one has voiced an opinion that other meta's should suffer, in fact most support other meta's being reworked.

People leaving is not a reason for Anet to not change the game. It's a non-starter. The game would never change if Anet considered the risk of players leaving. Put it this way, there is a risk people leave if they DON'T change the game also. It's a moot point. People leave all the time for all kinds of reasons.

[Obtena.7952]

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I've yet to be at a Istan farming session where you have to do more than just follow the Commander and tag mobs. Istan has NOTHING like the level of complexity being claimed. THAT is why people farm it. Because it's stupid simple and easy loot; it appeals to the lowest common denominator. If most people wanted complex map co-operation, teamwork and social interactions, then most people would be in HoT, not Istan.

People farm Istan hard because it's too easy and too rewarding with a zerg. Fixed. Thanks Anet.

Ive yet to see you fully read a post that addresses anything you try to fire back with either. Yet here we are. He is stating it takes cooperation to get multiple maps completed. Which is true. In almost every instance where a 2nd pala is done it requires 50 people willing to break off from the "normal" Pala route to do a totally different routing for each squad. Otherwise it won't complete on time. -You- have yet to do anything but follow the commander, but others work hard so thats all you have to do. Nobody is claiming its some top tier raid strategy going into Pala, but if its super easy then come lead us to 7 GHs between Palas. Ill be waiting on ya friend. If you're not at least getting a certain amount of GHs Id argue the meta events aren't even worth my time.

Yeah I get it ... but that doesn't make Istan a complex or uniquely socially interactive map like he claims. Co-ordinating multimapping on Istan is about as complex and'uniquely' socially interactive as multimapping and farming Queensdale champs.

You've already admitted you haven't seen that type of farm in action though. So you really don't have the place to call someone else's claim, especially mine, since I've commanded Istan for over 8 months, false.

I've not admitted that anywhere. I'm just saying that multimapping doesn't make the content in Istan unique or complex in any way. That's a nonsense claim. You can multimap any zone and as we have seen, that's not something Anet really likes and we know how they deal with that. Nothing you can say will change the fact that Istan is some of the most easily completed and significant levels of loot in the game; that in itself is a good enough reason to change it.

[X T D.6458]

@Pandemic.7854 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:I think the aspect you're missing here is that when people get bored they quit. More players are far less likely to have that happen in Istan, for the reasons I've already eloquently explained, and that's why they choose it over SW.

Note: No one said the loot wasn't important. The fact that the loot is important is why we're here talking about it. What we're trying to talk about is how a farm that attracted people who liked to actively farm instead of passively has entirely collapsed.

Well, then I guess people quitting over losing out on easy, excessive loot is less bad than what Istan delivers to players. Otherwise, Anet wouldn't be changing it.

Players leaving because bored isn't a reason for Anet to not change the game. Selling Istan like the only place players can actively farm is just incorrect.

Players leaving = less revenue generated. Very simple, also not dismissable. No one has voiced an opinion that other meta's should suffer, in fact most support other meta's being reworked, as they have for a long time.

If a company cant make a healthy change for their game because they fear some people who farm an event all day might spend some money on gems will quit...well that would just be really bad business wouldn't it?

[Blanche Neige.7241]

I have the feeling that some of the achievements in that map will be hard or even impossible to obtain to new players coming in there.

[Obtena.7952]

@Pandemic.7854 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Pandemic.7854 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@SpinDashMaster.5680 said:I think the aspect you're missing here is that when people get bored they quit. More players are far less likely to have that happen in Istan, for the reasons I've already eloquently explained, and that's why they choose it over SW.

Note: No one said the loot wasn't important. The fact that the loot is important is why we're here talking about it. What we're trying to talk about is how a farm that attracted people who liked to actively farm instead of passively has entirely collapsed.

Well, then I guess people quitting over losing out on easy, excessive loot is less bad than what Istan delivers to players. Otherwise, Anet wouldn't be changing it.

Players leaving because bored isn't a reason for Anet to not change the game. Selling Istan like the only place players can actively farm is just incorrect.

Players leaving = less revenue generated. Very simple, also not dismissable. No one has voiced an opinion that other meta's should suffer, in fact most support other meta's being reworked, as they have for a long time.

If a company cant make a healthy change for their game because they fear some people who farm an event all day might spend some money on gems will quit...well that would just be really bad business wouldn't it?

A healthy change generally doesn't involve a portion of the playerbase wanting to quit.

Sure it can. it's irrelevant how players see it ... Anet changing the game isn't decided by polling players to see who can speculate the best. Players leave. If the game changes and some players leave, then so be it, good or bad change. Any game developer knows that considers that in it's business case. It's absolutely ridiculous to claim that only bad changes cause players to leave. Players leave if they don't like something; that has nothing to do with if a change is good or bad.