Siren's Reef with birds?

[Brynioch.1873]

@phs.6089 said:Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

[Eramonster.2718]

@"Bugabuga.9721" said:Question -- what should be the strategy when Siren's Reef has: Birds, No Pain No Gain and Adrenaline Rush?Birds get extra bonus set of boons automatically from the start. And they don't seem to transfer to enemies (plus endurance doesn't regenerate fast enough before you get a new set of birds). Does this have anything to do with fact that you can't rally from any adds that are not "primary" bosses? When you're on the boat, I guess birds can't be transferred to other enemies as they are too far so you're out of luck -- you have to deal with birds, but dealing with birds means you can't shoot cannons, which means you get swamped with ghosts too soon (which you can't rally off off).

What's the proper way to deal with this with pugs? My initial group wiped around 7 times before disbanding. I really don't want to add yet another "just don't do this combo of newer fractal with these instabilities with pugs" to my list.How we did it yesterday.

• Had 2-3 players going for the treasure during ship control. Toss and catch is better than escort/running the treasure back to the ship.
• Man the cannons, dodge to get Birds off and get back on cannon. Ignore the juvenile birds spawned, they don't do much and dies quickly; healer's duty.
• Boss fights, prioritize on not getting blowned off the ship. /gg after every boss(optional).

First boss (Mad Jack), fairly easy just avoid the red circles especially if they're overlapping.

• Ship control and Tressure.

Second boss, ignore the boss(does nothing) and thin down the minnions first. Drop the red daze puddles away from everyone.

• Man all 4 cannons, #1 push them back, #3 roots them and #2 for aoe kill.

Capt.Crowe - ignore the boss(does nothing) and thin down the minnions first. Drop the red daze puddles away from everyone. Have at least 1 person stacked for green.

All 3 Bosses are harmless, focus on not getting blown off the yacht :tongue: and thin out the minnions. Having reflects and condi cleanse is a plus.

Ps: Can only hope PuGs to be cooperative and experienced; trial by fire. One thing I do notice in particular is PuGs tends to rush ahead and start the encounter :lol:.

[phs.6089]

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Miellyn.6847 said:'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now.Maybe because it happens way too often lately.

[Brynioch.1873]

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now.Maybe because it happens way too often lately.

Or maybe people should stop treating games like an interactive film and stop crying whenever something is slightly off their comfort zone and forces them to adapt, which also happens way too often in the last years.

Also fractals have difficulty scales, use them if you find it too hard or annoying. But that would impact your loot and we can't let this happen right?

[Grogba.6204]

@"Miellyn.6847" said:

It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

Time to add "Golden Shield".

Every time you get hit you lose 20 silver, no internal CD.

L2P; it's gameplay; cry elsewhere.

Would be incredible toxic but I guess people would still defend something like this.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Grogba.6204 said:

@"Miellyn.6847" said:

It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

Time to add "Golden Shield".

Every time you get hit you lose 20 silver, no internal CD.

L2P; it's gameplay; cry elsewhere.

Would be incredible toxic but I guess people would still defend something like this.

Sure, if the rewards merit the difficulty and penalty.

People defending brain-afk game play for easy rewards are not any better then people defending way over-reaching content.

[Grogba.6204]

I like the CMs but absolutely loath instabilities and haven't played fractals since the patch with no desire to test them. If that's the direction Anet wants to take they can follow it but I will criticize them for it or ultimately just leave.

[phs.6089]

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

There isn't any scale without it.No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.because there is no challenge just annoyance.

[Derdzvero.7051]

@"phs.6089" said:There isn't any scale without it.No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.because there is no challenge just annoyance.

Absolutely agree with Phs and the rant here on Birds. Their behavior, damage AND frequency show that Q&A never actually played that part of the game. Or any other computer game to be honest since only RNG can save you from getting eaten alive there, while dodging the "challenging" boss and his minions. If there is Q&A team at all.Question to game designers: How exactly do those birds "require" clever party teamwork or adapting when ONLY dodging works?Are we now "challenged" to change traits in builds every 5mins?

Let's say it openly - any content you guys release in last 1 year is having great artwork, very good level design and terrible gameplay, made by lazy coding. Customers' patience is not endless.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Grogba.6204 said:I like the CMs but absolutely loath instabilities and haven't played fractals since the patch with no desire to test them. If that's the direction Anet wants to take they can follow it but I will criticize them for it or ultimately just leave.

So all your complaints are based on forum banter. You being burned out on fractals or unwilling to adapt to new instabilities is on you.

For people who did any CM, regular fractals are no different than before, with one major difference: social awkwardness is less a pita.

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

There isn't any scale without it.No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.because there is no challenge just annoyance.

I'd say having to adapt to birds and enemies by bringing reflects and bringing boon remove/corrupt to deal with No Pain, No gain is the very definition of having to adapt your build.

The only people complaining in this thread are people who did not adapt or not even play the fractal/instabilities.

[Shadow Order.7258]

Don't get mad and realize that we are the test server. This will be fixed after X amount of gem store updates.

[phs.6089]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Grogba.6204 said:I like the CMs but absolutely loath instabilities and haven't played fractals since the patch with no desire to test them. If that's the direction Anet wants to take they can follow it but I will criticize them for it or ultimately just leave.

So all your complaints are based on forum banter. You being burned out on fractals or unwilling to adapt to new instabilities is on you.

For people who did any CM, regular fractals are no different than before, with one major difference: social awkwardness is less a pita.

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

There isn't any scale without it.No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.because there is no challenge just annoyance.

I'd say having to adapt to birds and enemies by bringing reflects and bringing boon remove/corrupt to deal with No Pain, No gain is the very definition of having to adapt your build.

The only people complaining in this thread are people who did not adapt or not even play the fractal/instabilities.

An old man sits on bench and painfully moans. Another one next to him asks: What is the matter?-I'm sitting on a nail, you see.-Why don't you move your butt and do something about it?-It's ok, I'll adapt soon.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

With a normal pug group it was not possible .'

[yann.1946]

@phs.6089 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Grogba.6204 said:I like the CMs but absolutely loath instabilities and haven't played fractals since the patch with no desire to test them. If that's the direction Anet wants to take they can follow it but I will criticize them for it or ultimately just leave.

So all your complaints are based on forum banter. You being burned out on fractals or unwilling to adapt to new instabilities is on you.

For people who did any CM, regular fractals are no different than before, with one major difference: social awkwardness is less a pita.

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

There isn't any scale without it.No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.because there is no challenge just annoyance.

I'd say having to adapt to birds and enemies by bringing reflects and bringing boon remove/corrupt to deal with No Pain, No gain is the very definition of having to adapt your build.

The only people complaining in this thread are people who did not adapt or not even play the fractal/instabilities.

An old man sits on bench and painfully moans. Another one next to him asks: What is the matter?-I'm sitting on a nail, you see.-Why don't you move your butt and do something about it?-It's ok, I'll adapt soon.

It's a little weird to say this as adapting would be moving away.

[Shadow Order.7258]

It's just funny that the guys saying "adapt" and l2p are the same people who spam LFG with lf1 healer and support.Big difference when back in the day you had to play your class well and not rely on someone to buff and heal you. Who really has the l2p issue?

I mean people look for healers and support for recs. Then pat themselves on the back as if they were good players and come chest thump on the forums.

[Cyninja.2954]

@yann.1946 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Grogba.6204 said:I like the CMs but absolutely loath instabilities and haven't played fractals since the patch with no desire to test them. If that's the direction Anet wants to take they can follow it but I will criticize them for it or ultimately just leave.

So all your complaints are based on forum banter. You being burned out on fractals or unwilling to adapt to new instabilities is on you.

For people who did any CM, regular fractals are no different than before, with one major difference: social awkwardness is less a pita.

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

There isn't any scale without it.No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.because there is no challenge just annoyance.

I'd say having to adapt to birds and enemies by bringing reflects and bringing boon remove/corrupt to deal with No Pain, No gain is the very definition of having to adapt your build.

The only people complaining in this thread are people who did not adapt or not even play the fractal/instabilities.

An old man sits on bench and painfully moans. Another one next to him asks: What is the matter?-I'm sitting on a nail, you see.-Why don't you move your butt and do something about it?-It's ok, I'll adapt soon.

It's a little weird to say this as adapting would be moving away.

Exactly, the analogy does not fit at all. It suggests the absolute opposite course of action.

phs.6089, the nail is the new instabilities, the person recommending adapting to them is the one next to the person bothered by the nail, the person unwilling to adapt is people unwilling to adapt their builds.

You're the old man who is unwilling to move in this case. To assume anything else is to misunderstand the current situation.

[Cyninja.2954]

@"Shadow Order.7258" said:It's just funny that the guys saying "adapt" and l2p are the same people who spam LFG with lf1 healer and support.Big difference when back in the day you had to play your class well and not rely on someone to buff and heal you. Who really has the l2p issue?

I mean people look for healers and support for recs. Then pat themselves on the back as if they were good players and come chest thump on the forums.

Yes, I was playing fractals all the way since 2 weeks since their release. I was doing max level fractals before there was anything else besides rings and no imba loot.

Would it be great to have instant kill mechanics back and instant kill agony? Sure, I was fine with that back then. I was also fine playing a mesmer or guardian in volcanic bringing reflects or learning when to dogdge all boss agony mechanics.

To assume that people who recommend others adapt are unskilled or clueless is about as far a reach as one can take. Even back then, people were bringing the right tools for the job, sometimes even more so than now because not doing so meant not succeeding.

[Shikaru.7618]

Did everyone in complaining in this thread forget that most classes have long lasting projectile defenses, aoe blinds and I dunno... the possibility that focusing the adds and not the boss kills the adds? The screenshot above literally shows the most backwards logic I've ever seen. The adds are wiping us so let's NOT kill any of them. In fact let's only focus the boss so she spawns more of them so the adds kill us faster. Skilled gameplay with strong class knowledge and understanding of mechanics indeed.

[Brynioch.1873]

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

There isn't any scale without it.No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.because there is no challenge just annoyance.

Yes there is. It's called T1. There are exactly zero instabilities.Birds DO challenge you as you have to watch out for the debuff and not waste dodges so you have endurance to remove the birds and dodge important attacks unless you run with a comp that has aegis like no tomorrow.

[zealex.9410]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now.Maybe because it happens way too often lately.

Or maybe because ppl like to complain.

[phs.6089]

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

There isn't any scale without it.No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.because there is no challenge just annoyance.

Yes there is. It's called T1. There are exactly zero instabilities.Birds DO challenge you as you have to watch out for the debuff and not waste dodges so you have endurance to remove the birds and dodge important attacks unless you run with a comp that has aegis like no tomorrow.

That would have been a challenge if it was timed/depends on bosses HP etc. Not random. How exactly you plan your dodge on RNG? especially on dodge heavy encounters?Again, that is half of the problem, why those juvenile ravens work as fractal mobs adding to own RNG other instability, such as conditions,damage per boon, fire etc.

You guys are defending it like most funboys would defending anything but you all know and can see this is the trash that was added into game just for a number.Copy-paste, not tested, not though over.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Grogba.6204 said:I like the CMs but absolutely loath instabilities and haven't played fractals since the patch with no desire to test them. If that's the direction Anet wants to take they can follow it but I will criticize them for it or ultimately just leave.

So all your complaints are based on forum banter. You being burned out on fractals or unwilling to adapt to new instabilities is on you.

For people who did any CM, regular fractals are no different than before, with one major difference: social awkwardness is less a pita.

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@phs.6089 said:Birds are annoying in any fractal where you get locked and or has lots of trash mobs.For some unknown reason the juvenile prototypes spawn for no reason at all and act as any other mob, meaning if you have instability like:Afflicted, Adrenaline Rush, Boon Overload,We Bleed Fire & Vengeance, this ravens may and will cause all that 'fun' on your party.There is no explanation of juvenile on instability description at all.I get that devs wanted to make fractals more 'challenging' but this is not a good challenge.There are so many ways to make fractals fun and challenging without annoying the kitten of players.

'Annyoing the player' is so incredibly overused by now. Many players find executing mechanics annoying so just remove everything and make it an autohitting sandbag to appeal them?The fractal is fine. It is a different challenge than the other fractals which was needed. Also it is still new and most people don't know what they are supposed to do. Wait two weeks and it goes back to faceroll as all other fractals.

If those birds that get you in fire, give every possible condition there is, instability that tends to hit 2-3 played at the same time is not annoyance then I don't know what is.It's called gameplay. If it annoys you don't play it. Or choose a scale without those instabilities.

There isn't any scale without it.No it isn't called gameplay it calls 'lazy coding'gameplay is something that challenges you, you class knowledge, your game mech knowlege etc

copy -pasting code from old runes effect dosen't make it gameplay.because there is no challenge just annoyance.

I'd say having to adapt to birds and enemies by bringing reflects and bringing boon remove/corrupt to deal with No Pain, No gain is the very definition of having to adapt your build.

The only people complaining in this thread are people who did not adapt or not even play the fractal/instabilities.

An old man sits on bench and painfully moans. Another one next to him asks: What is the matter?-I'm sitting on a nail, you see.-Why don't you move your butt and do something about it?-It's ok, I'll adapt soon.

It's a little weird to say this as adapting would be moving away.

Exactly, the analogy does not fit at all. It suggests the absolute opposite course of action.

phs.6089, the nail is the new instabilities, the person recommending adapting to them is the one next to the person bothered by the nail, the person unwilling to adapt is people unwilling to adapt their builds.

You're the old man who is unwilling to move in this case. To assume anything else is to misunderstand the current situation.

Not exactly. I'm the guy that won't sit on a nail at first place and would point to mater that made that bench that nail is not in it's place. Instead of sitting on it and trying to get used to it.

[zealex.9410]

@phs.6089 said:-Why don't you move your butt and do something about it?

Also known as adapting.

-It's ok, I'll adapt soon.

Also known as not adapting and rather complaining for the sake of complaining.

But its ok, surely what you were trying to say made sense right? Thankfully i get what you meant and ill try to translate it in a way that others will too understand what you were trying to say.

-It's ok, if i moan loud enough god will remove it for me.

There, now it makes sense... Oh wait.

[daisyk.4523]

My thoughts on Birds - here is the nice and civil version:

To me, Birds feels... idk, weird. Like. They definitely do add difficulty, nobody's disagreeing with that, but is it in the right way? And will it be more enjoyable for people in the long run?

They force you to be a little more careful with your endurance and conserving dodges, and also (depending on the fractal, maybe with Siren's Reef or Twilight where there's a bunch of shit on the ground) to position yourself better using directional dodges.

So that's all fine and dandy, but for me personally, it's just.... the very fact..... that THERE ARE A BILLION FLYING BIRDS ALL OVER THE PLACE . It's messy, unnecessary, visual clutter, that is just unpleasant to look at in a game where visuals honestly do matter and affect enjoyability for a lot of people haha. <3

Plus the fact that like, instead of being a mechanic in a specific encounter or a fractal where they fit the theme, they're a mistlock instability for... anywhere? There's no rhyme or reason, just birds flying all over the fuck around the place?? Why not squirrels, why not badgers, why not bats. Why the fuck birds??? Just pick anything that's random AF, since birds already 100% are. :')

But yeah, it really breaks the flow of a fractal. ;__; The randomness of the visual mess, the randomness of the forced dodges, and also (I suppose this willl be better once people are used to birds) when other people don't dodge, you still see THEIR BIRDS ALL OVER THE PLACE loool.

I realize this is a pretty bad analogy - inb4 someone feels the need to point out 23459304 differences there obviously are - but to me it just feels like if you're running around in WvW - whether you're by yourself, or maybe fighting someone, and then suddenly there's like, enemy wildlife all over the place running after you. Like yes, it is harder to get around (or fight someone) when there's a pack of wolves chasing you, but is that really what we're going for? What we enjoy in a game, what feels like ~the point~ of a fractal or game lol?

and a slightly less charitable, less civil mention:

tbh i wonder who the hell thought of birds HAHA. like, were they forced to come up with 50 new instability ideas to send in the next day??? that they put off until the night before... so it was 3:00 am and they had way too much coffee, and they were like "o fuck, i'm running out of ideas, what next?? uhhh BIRDS. gotta fill my quota of instab ideas!"

like if i were adding instabs (and i'm sure literally everyone here would feel the same), i would never ever ever come up with birds as one of them x__x

for real tho, think about it -- if you'd put high standards on yourself for coming up with interesting, enjoyable, and still challenging instab ideas, why not put it on the company that you're (ok not everyone but y'know what i mean) paying $$$ for?

and yet just because something currently is and is not game-breaking, people are defending it as if it's a marvelous idea :')right?? like oh god, thank god they BLESSED US WITH BIRDS as the ONE THING that could elevate our playing level!!(ok, this was rather salty and unnecessary and strawman-y of me, but ya'll get the point haha)

like it's obvs not un-liveable, game-ruining or anything, but imo it's still valid to criticize birds, or anything that humans with human limitations throw our way haha <3

~~~also, irrelevant, it literally does not matter for anything, but thought id mention it for funsies:

fr though, i go on my ranger to do daily crafting, she uses a juvenile white owl, and every time i log in now i can literally feel my anxiety go up whenever i see my own pet lool

https://imgur.com/O9C1Yu9

LIKE, DOES YOUR HEART RATE NOT GO UP SLIGHTLY??

you might not see it at first, just like in a fractal, and then o god-- BIRDS. there's always a point in the day when i almost dodge. almost. :P

[zealex.9410]

@"Kahlan.7249" said:

My thoughts on Birds - here is the nice and civil version:

To me, Birds feels... idk, weird. Like. They definitely do add difficulty, nobody's disagreeing with that, but is it in the right way? And will it be more enjoyable for people in the long run?

They force you to be a little more careful with your endurance and conserving dodges, and also (depending on the fractal, maybe with Siren's Reef or Twilight where there's a bunch of kitten on the ground) to position yourself better using directional dodges.

So that's all fine and dandy, but for me personally, it's just.... the very fact..... that THERE ARE A BILLION FLYING BIRDS ALL OVER THE PLACE . It's messy, unnecessary, visual clutter, that is honestly just unpleasant to look at in a game where visuals do matter + affect enjoyability for a lot of people.

Plus the fact that like, instead of being a specific encounter or a fractal or whatever, they're a mistlock instability for... anywhere? There's no rhyme or reason, just birds flying all over the kitten around the place?? Why not squirrels, why not badgers, why not bats. Why the kitten birds??? Just pick anything that's random AF, since birds already 100% are. :')

But yeah, it really breaks the flow of a fractal. ;__; The randomness of the visual mess, the randomness of the forced dodges, and also (I suppose this willl be better once people are used to birds) when other people don't dodge, you still see THEIR BIRDS ALL OVER THE PLACE loool.

I realize this is a terrible analogy - inb4 someone feels the need to point out 23459304 differences there obviously are - but to me it just feels like if you're running around in WvW - whether you're by yourself, or maybe fighting someone, and then suddenly there's like, enemy wildlife all over the place running after you. Like yes, it is harder to get around (or fight someone) when there's a pack of wolves chasing you, but is that really what we're going for? What we enjoy in a game, what feels like ~the point~ of a fractal or game lol?

and a slightly less charitable, less civil mention:

tbh i wonder who the hell thought of birds HAHA. like, were they forced to come up with 50 new instability ideas to send in the next day??? that they put off until the night before... so it was 3:00 am and they had way too much coffee, and they were like "o kitten, i'm running out of ideas, what next?? uhhh BIRDS. gotta fill my quota of instab ideas!"

like if i were adding instabs (and i'm sure literally everyone here would feel the same), i would never ever ever come up with birds as one of them lol.

nd yet, just because something currently is, people are defending it as if it's a marvelous idea :')right?? like oh god, thank god they BLESSED US WITH BIRDS as the ONE THING that could elevate our playing level!!(ok, this was rather salty and unnecessary and strawman-y of me, but ya'll get the point haha)

like it's obvs not un-liveable, game-ruining or anything, but imo it's still valid to criticize birds, or anything that humans with human limitations throw our way haha <3

~~~also, irrelevant, it literally does not matter for anything, but thought id mention it for funsies:

fr though, i go on my ranger to do daily crafting, she uses a juvenile white owl, and every time i log in now i can literally feel my anxiety go up when i see my own pet lool

https://imgur.com/O9C1Yu9

LIKE, DOES YOUR HEART RATE NOT GO UP SLIGHTLY BC OF THAT?? you might not see it at first, just like in a fractal, and then o god-- BIRDS. there's always a point in the day when i almost dodge. almost.

I think birds makes sense because they dont make sense. Fractals by design arent supposed to be stable and are supposed getting mixed up and being weird the deeper you go.

So, birds!