Reaper or Scourge?

[DHung.5263]

Hi guys, I’m playing on a reaper axe/warhorn with GS and I’m liking it, mostly doing open world and fracs/ abit of dungeon/ but not raids....and spvp, will explore wvw soon as I couldn’t get the concept well compare to spvp....

I have never played scourge and have always wonder what’s scourge all about? I know it’s a healer spec but that’s all...

Any advise if I should try it out? As I’m always into open world, do you think I’ll enjoy scourge over reaper? pls share your thoughts :)

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

What is scourge about

Scourge is generally a condi/support spec. He shines best in competitve modes where his barriers, aoe corrupts and condi damage along with constant healing provide great support to his team right next to his very powerful area denial vs enemies. Few dare to walk into scourge's aoe and take a prolonged fight with him in it.

In open world scourge can shine at mass mob wipeout, and team support, though his approach will most likely be via condi + healing gear with things like transfusion and parasitic contagion traited. As he has no standard shroud, only barriers, any healing/leeching he gets is not blocked by shroud.

But is sucks for me.

That all being said, i hate the spec and don't use it. First of all it's boring. It's all about shades, rest of necro feeling like an addition to those. And shades aren't a fascinating concept at least when compared to reaper shroud when you turn into a badass avatar of death and reap your enemies yourself!

Second reason i hate the scourge is because it's a very poor spec for power builds. Reaper can do both condi and power just fine, scourge only condi. There is nothing to enchance your crit chance like reaper's decimate defenses and scourges shroud has a 6s fixed uptime. The awesome freedom of choosing gear stats that reaper enjoys due to huge crit chance boosts in traits is gone here.

Lastly he's a Life Force hog. Since using shades costs life force, and shades are basically majority of scourge's kit, the math is simple. Now imagine the concept of running around stabbing things to death with dagger (greatsword is reaper only!) go get some life force for next shade cast. Yup it sucks exactly as badly as you just imagined it to be.

Is it for you?

If you're a big team player that wants to shield/heal his allies while having great boon corrupts, some party might and aoe everything around you to death, then scourge is for you.

If you can't bear monotonous playstyle (shades shades shades), find loss of decimate defenses unbearable, and hate the idea or running around with a dagger instead of greatsword, then this spec is not for you.

[DHung.5263]

Hmm thanks for your input...from the way it sounds, I think reaper suits my playstyle better, however I’m not too used to gsword and most of the time I’m on axe/warhorn...I know gsword deals massive damage but I often put myself at risk dying to boss/mobs on melee...ended up im mostly using axe/warhorn...think it’s not the best way to play a reaper but I have tried...

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

You do realize you have two weapon sets on a necro (seeing you're ele). I run with axe/focus (or warhorn) on one, greatsword on other.

[DHung.5263]

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:You do realize you have two weapon sets on a necro (seeing you're ele). I run with axe/focus (or warhorn) on one, greatsword on other.

Yeap I know the weapon swap thing, I used to dash in for gs4 and 2 for damage sustain..but recently I stopped switching weapons and went with only axe/warh most of the time....had a few deaths on gs, so kinda prefer keeping a distance...

[EarthlySaint.4523]

I have one of each...I find Scourge a blast to play but it shines as others have said in group conflicts like meta events and wvw. It has strong support capabilities for Fractals too. I have not done raids, so no comment there.

MM Reaper is king for open world (IMHO)...Having a hard time with something? Grab your Reaper, spawn your minions and problem solved. On reaper, I use axe / warhorn with either a GS or Staff for open world, depending on the situation. On scourge, I use axe / torch with either scepter / focus, scepter / dagger or staff as needed.

[Nimon.7840]

You can still play condi-scourge, which is pretty good in fractals and open world, and it doesn't use a dagger....In raids it's..... Let's say "not so good"

[DHung.5263]

i think one of the issue i have is the weapon, i tend to stick on axe/warhorn too much regardless of the mode i play... i have a greatsword but i rarely switch to it ... just wondering am i doing it entirely wrong?

[DHung.5263]

btw guys whats the best and most common build for scourge? like power reaper uses berserker.... how about scourge? viper?

[Nimon.7840]

Scourges normal DPS/utility build is viper.There's also healscourge that uses magi (feel free to add boonduration for fractals, as without it's impossible to keep up 25mightI'm currently often running a marshals build though, because it offers up to 10k DPS while doing almost the same value of barriers that magi does. But I wouldn't recommend playing healscourge in a premade group, I think there are better healers/ supporters in premade.

In PvP modes you're doing it right, most of the times it's better to stay on axe, GS is more a utility/finisher weapon in my opinion.

In PvP camping GS does way more damage than using axe autoattacks.Wvw: play scourge if you are running with zergs. Reaper isn't as far as effective in zergs. It's good to cleave downs and sometimes fun to go rampage in enemy backline, but if you want to contribute more for the zerg, play scourge.Some people say that marauder is best, I dont think so, as it doesn't give as much utility (barrier) to your zerg than other builds that use some healing power.the power build has a nice spike, but the sustained damage is pretty bad on a power build.

[DHung.5263]

Thanks guys...I’m currently using axe/horn most of the time and have actually abandoned the gsword as I’m not comfortable going melee (besides reaper shroud), and I find having a staff actually helps better (spvp and fracs)

is it ok to use axe/horn and a staff on a power reaper for frac/spvp?

[UfoCoffee.2084]

@DHung.5263 said:Thanks guys...I’m currently using axe/horn most of the time and have actually abandoned the gsword as I’m not comfortable going melee (besides reaper shroud), and I find having a staff actually helps better (spvp and fracs)

is it ok to use axe/horn and a staff on a power reaper for frac/spvp?

Some people use staff instead of greatsword but losing nightfall is a huge loss imo. Also gs 5 comes in really handy sometimes.

I run with the trait that gives you lf whilst in combat with GS wielded. Try it out. Camp GS and you'll be in shroud most of the time with the lf coming in.

[Druitt.7629]

I feel like Scourge is reasonably effective close-up -- though perhaps not in melee -- and at range, while Reaper is pretty much melee. And Scourge is less "selfish". So I prefer Scourge, though I'm pretty casual and usually open world or dabble in WvW.

[KrHome.1920]

Dying in PvE on Reaper in melee range on GS is a L2P issue. Camping axe is extremely inefficient.

Scourge can be used as a workround but this is hardly an argument as the game is pretty easy in general.

I would probably kick players out of my squad that tell me they play Scourge because they die too much on Reaper since Reaper is already incredibly tanky in PvE.

[Lily.1935]

Scourge is more in line with what the necromancer used to do in gw1. Reaper is a basically a warrior without the support aspect and much slower.Arena net hoped onto the fad of kirbification which we saw a lot of in games releasing around that time and necromancer from gw1 was a difficult to use and understand profession. Lots of things to keep track of such as enemy placement, health, energy, minions, party health. They could be quite overwhelming to get into. It wasn't just a passive glance at enemy placement or health either. Necromancers exploited corpses so knowing the range on your skills that use corpses and how they'll impact the radius was important. Not to mention that health was a valuable resource for necromancer that could be spent for skills that could also kill the user. Because they also had lots of support skills they also needed to keep an eye on allied health. And minions were not passive skills in gw1 but the necromancer needed to be active in their maintenance. Because of all this, necromancer wasn't super popular but extremely powerful in the right hands.

Come to gw2 and almost everything that made the necromancer unique was stripped away. They didn't spend health, minions are passive, field awareness is important but this isn't unique to the necromancer and ranger anymore, their support is almost completely stripped away and their resource is a non-mechanic. In its place they're given a death shroud that makes them tanks as opposed to the glassy hexers who overwhelm with numbers or debuffs and buffs.

Reaper in that regard is a continuation of the kirbification new gw philosophy that alienated the gw1 fan base. Scourge on the other hand brings back a bit of that old feel of the Gw1 necromancer. All be it only a small aspect of the overall design. It is still very much lacking in this regard but it is far closer to the original design and feel of gw1 necromancer than the core or reaper could ever be. Because of this the question of which is better or more fun, that depends on the perspective of the user. Gw1 necromancer mains I've talked to almost universally prefer the scourge while gw2 only players lean more heavily into reaper.

It's a different mentality you need to be in when playing the scourge. Reaper is very different. The best comparison to scourge in gw2 terms is like an engineer with greater field control. Scourge is a mid line condition spec with potent dps output that requires appropriate timing and management of resources. There is a level of patience you need to reserve that reaper doesn't require. Which can make it both more satisfying and mor frustrating to use when compared to reaper.

Now I mentioned kirbification a few times... I should link to what that means...it was a term used by Masahiro Sakurai to describe games created to be easier to play for beginners to help aid them in jumping into the genre.

[kharmin.7683]

@UfoCoffee.2084 said:

@DHung.5263 said:Thanks guys...I’m currently using axe/horn most of the time and have actually abandoned the gsword as I’m not comfortable going melee (besides reaper shroud), and I find having a staff actually helps better (spvp and fracs)

is it ok to use axe/horn and a staff on a power reaper for frac/spvp?

Some people use staff instead of greatsword but losing nightfall is a huge loss imo. Also gs 5 comes in really handy sometimes.

I run with the trait that gives you lf whilst in combat with GS wielded. Try it out. Camp GS and you'll be in shroud most of the time with the lf coming in.

Yeah, me too for the most part. I'll run GS and if/when things get dicey, go shroud and wipe the area.

[kharmin.7683]

Also, you might get more replies if you had this moved to the necromancer sub-forum

[otto.5684]

I find reaper to be better in open world. Scourge damage is slow. Scourge is surely more suvivable, but you can run minion reaper, which is even more survivable, but will deal less damage.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I prefer scourge personally for the constant access to extra skills without a form switch and the more "mage" style to the pure bruiser that is reaper.

Also because it has more condition damage options and I'm a big fan of condis.

[LucianDK.8615]

Scourge will quickly make you want to stab something from having to constantly plop down your shades before you can start having fun being killy. I loathe renegade for the same reason, too high rampup time.

[Lily.1935]

@LucianDK.8615 said:Scourge will quickly make you want to stab something from having to constantly plop down your shades before you can start having fun being killy. I loathe renegade for the same reason, too high rampup time.

There isn't any more ramp time than reaper. You literally plop it down at the start and pulse damage. Like, you don't even have to gap close.

[Druitt.7629]

I can see Lucian's comment: I used to love/hate Shaman in WoW because of totem-plopping. But I agree with Lily that it's not a big deal.

In fact you don't need to use shades since shade skills also center on you. But you will want to use the shade -- get the big, single shade trait to make things simple -- for 15% less damage to you and for remote skill use. (And for "Shroud Skill 1" traits, which a Scourge does by deploying the shade.) It's really an attitude thing in once sense. Instead of imagining it as an "annoying" shade, imagine it's a ground-targeted spell that you can then have multiple other spells auto-target the same location without ground-targeting.

Ramp-up time is just a consequence of playing a Conditions-oriented build, which isn't unique to Scourge.

[LucianDK.8615]

think you misunderstood the ramp up comment.as in having to put down shades constantly, not the condition damage.

[Nimon.7840]

@"Druitt.7629" said:I can see Lucian's comment: I used to love/hate Shaman in WoW because of totem-plopping. But I agree with Lily that it's not a big deal.

In fact you don't need to use shades since shade skills also center on you. But you will want to use the shade -- get the big, single shade trait to make things simple -- for 15% less damage to you and for remote skill use. (And for "Shroud Skill 1" traits, which a Scourge does by deploying the shade.) It's really an attitude thing in once sense. Instead of imagining it as an "annoying" shade, imagine it's a ground-targeted spell that you can then have multiple other spells auto-target the same location without ground-targeting.

Ramp-up time is just a consequence of playing a Conditions-oriented build, which isn't unique to Scourge.

But scourge has the biggest ramp up time of all Condi classes. Causing it's the only one heavily relying on bleeding while the others all do conditions, that hit harder

[Lily.1935]

@LucianDK.8615 said:think you misunderstood the ramp up comment.as in having to put down shades constantly, not the condition damage.

And I have to gap close with a reaper and build life force and need to wait 10 seconds to enter shroud again. It's a different play style. You don't need to like scourge. It's a very technical elite spec though.