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Why majority of WvW players stopped giving feedback.


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I feel like this is very constructive feedback here. The biggest problem with this game are the matchups and the server pairings, yet taking about them is against the rules. Not sure if this is the proper word to use but it is paradoxical or a oxymoron and it triggers the entire WvW community and all of the players who play this game and its why no one wants to post of these forums, to ever give any feedback.

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It is like being directed through some automated answering machine except every time you press 2 to get a live person you get the response all service operators are busy.

It is like your post resembles something that the filter recongnizes as containing content that is objectionable by rules set in place to block objectionable content because we don't want to hear #1 problem with this game, and attempting to give feedback on any number of other problems that are associated with it are automatically classified as against the rules.Thats pretty much why there is nothing to post here for anyone, and anyone that trys to post is stoped.

I had mentioned to a moderator that the forums were over moderated once and I was told they are not over moderated that basically I am just not being sensitive enough, please.

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@"Warlord.9074" said:The biggest problem with this game are the matchups and the server pairings, yet taking about them is against the rules.

Talking about the algorithm is not against the rules. Talking about pairing isn't absolutely against the rules. The problem is that people can't seem to keep a discussion about how matchups and links are decided from turning into trading insults about the specific worlds involved.

Second, there are all sorts of other issues with WvW that do get discussed, including builds and mechanics. And finally, a lot of people recognize that the important matchup discussion is about the Restucturing. There is no scenario I can imagine in which ANet is going to find a new way of handling matchups/pairings that doesn't require the same people already tasked with Restructuring. And I don't think it's likely for them to distract any of those devs with interim solutions unless it turns out that Restructuring can't happen or their best-guess for time-to-implementation is "too far" in the future.

If they make good progress on the technical problems, then things will move very fast as far as ANet talking to us about specifics and working through those details. I'm waiting for that; there's not much new to be said about matchups or pairing other than they are (probably) the least worst of all the ugly options currently available.

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a lot of people voice criticism about how arenanet handles their wvw updates or profession balances.

Well thought out "constructive' criticism gets ignored in the end, achieve nothing. Anet always takes the shortest path that yields worst results.

In turn comes the 'unconstructive' criticism due to player impatience, which results in forum penalties. 2 posts in this thread were already removed.

while at the same time, 'unconstructive' praise is welcome. Arenanet is selectively listening to their audience, silencing people that are critical, which is why reddit is used more than the official forums.

People will still provide feedback but will eventually realize how futile it is to pitch ideas to arenanet.

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There’s too much of things that we have already given feedback about, threads are being opened, commented ~100 times, then after a week they are dying natural death, mostly without any ANet respond. Thats why people doesn’t care anymore and just stopped playing WvW or slack around as usual

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@"viniebc.9568" said:maybe because the devs don't care about wvw anymore

Wait, was there a time when developers care about WvW?I have been playing for 7 years and we have not had a major update that made you said "WOW this game is great"!The only reason I keep playing WvW is because I like to kill people and make them rage when they send me salt PM.

I love the salt! That is the only reason I keep playing WvW.

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People have left the game and forums.

What's the point of talking about server pairings when they are working on a major system to overhaul it, even if it's on pace to be completed in 2022.

What's the point of rehashing 6 year old topics.

The only time they bothered to work on wvw seriously was in that year after wvw crashed after HoT when links and rewards got worked on.

Players hated all their new maps, no point for them to make any more.

Matchup threads just devolve into insulting each other, every, single, time.

Wvw balance does not matter to them because it affects pve.

Do you like talking to walls? after 6 years there's still no presence from anet in the wvw section, other than mods closing threads for being matchup arguments.

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If I had to read this forum as a developer I'd instantly quit my job. This forum isn't good at making suggestions or "helping" developers making the game better.

  • open Blackgate
  • buff my class because I lost vs. X
  • The hammer meta is bad / the pirate ship meta is bad / the condi meta is bad
  • my class takes way more skill than X, so change Y
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@"gebrechen.5643" said:If I had to read this forum as a developer I'd instantly quit my job. This forum isn't good at making suggestions or "helping" developers making the game better.

  • open Blackgate
  • buff my class because I lost vs. X
  • The hammer meta is bad / the pirate ship meta is bad / the condi meta is bad
  • my class takes way more skill than X, so change Y

You'd have to actually find a wvw dev first....instead of the current situation where wvw is worked on after every single pve problem has been addressed for the week and the colour of the NPC's arm in some pve spot has been recoded as that was more important than anything wvw related.

I gave up waiting and went off to play something else with pvp in it (which also has huge lag issues, so no change there, but a more fun siege system). Will probably pop in and take a look when they finally launch the new wvw system some time in 2020 or 2021 (if it isn't shelved completely) and see whether they have done anything to fix the balance and make pvp more enjoyable (like removed one shot mechanics, spam mechanics, etc)....

As for giving feedback, at this stage it's utterly pointless, and has been ever since they asked for feedback on the deserted map (which was a spare pve map repurposed, obviously meant to have gliding from the start) which was completely ignored.

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@Jeknar.6184 said:I'm pretty sure people are just tired of feeling ignored...

^this.

It's enough to look around the forums or Reddit and log in to compare. Some people even put in effort to make suggestions in really lengthy posts that also get ignored. They may receive thumbs up from the community, but you can tell how much we as a community matter to them.

Only money talks.

There's:

  • very little feedback from the devs
  • no tangible results to their claims
  • no public test server like in other games

...and many more things that I won't bother listing because what was previously quoted applies.

So I wonder,

why people still stick around? I keep saying this, and I believe it's the one thing that may make a difference - to see population decline by people quitting the game.

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@"Warlord.9074" said:I feel like this is very constructive feedback here. The biggest problem with this game are the matchups and the server pairings, yet taking about them is against the rules. Not sure if this is the proper word to use but it is paradoxical or a oxymoron and it triggers the entire WvW community and all of the players who play this game and its why no one wants to post of these forums, to ever give any feedback.

Even well intentioned match up threads devolve into nonconstructive qq and insults. That’s why there is a rule against them. Also, the devs are working on a new match up system based off of feedback and need, so players should post in that thread knowing the change is coming at some point.

There is constructive feedback all over the forums. The problem, especially in the wvw and spvp sections, is that decent threads get buried by the massive amounts of junk posts and whining.... Also, wvw and spvp receive the fewest updates so it’s easy to run out of topics for players to discuss.

Edit- https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Inappropriate-Forum-Topics

"Over time, the WvW Sub-forum has seen a growing number of posts about game worlds, or servers. No matter how well-intentioned the posts may start out, two kinds of threads soon sink into negativity and unconstructive commentary:

  • Requests to re-open a particular server
  • Requests to adjust the Glicko ratings for a specific server

To increase the value of these forums for players and devs alike, and to keep the conversations constructive, we’re going to disallow these two kinds of threads and posts. We ask for your cooperation in not creating or contributing to threads or posts on these subjects in the future. Thanks very much."

"Some months ago, we asked forum members to not create or engage in threads requesting the reopening of a server or the adjustment of Glicko ratings for a specific server. We explained why at the time, but a little more information and an expansion of our request seems in order at this time.

Server Reopening Requests: Worlds reopen most often due to the natural ebb and flow of players, which impacts the number of play hours on a given world. If a world reopens, it is usually because players or guilds changed worlds, players have stopped playing on that world, or, rarely, because we made an overall adjustment to world capacity. We do not reopen servers upon request and ask that you not post such appeals.

Thread about Worlds: While we appreciate “world pride,” quite a few threads about game worlds become unnecessarily contentious and negative, and we need to close those. Sometimes the mods use the term “matchup thread” when taking action. Yet you should know it’s not the matchup that’s the problem, it’s the unpleasant comments or tone. I’ll work with the moderators to help them make closures, warnings, and infractions clearer.

  • An example of such a thread is here. As you can see, the thread included several insults. If you want to bash a world or a player, do it in the game!

Glicko Resets: The devs don’t reset a Glicko rating upon request, and resets are not based on perceptions or opinions but on factual data derived from the game info itself. We’ve seen understandable confusion when a reset takes place shortly after someone posts a request thread, or when a reset did not happen even though someone requested it. In order to avoid that kind of confusion, we ask that players not submit Glicko reset requests.

  • Here’s an example of such a thread. Again, the thread became unpleasant and the initial request wasn’t in line for action, anyway.

Arguing World Links: The devs make world linking decisions after on a neutral review of data, using algorithms, and based on their best judgment. If you want to discuss your opinions about specific world linkings, you’re welcome to do so. If you have questions, my best advice is to pose your questions in a conversational (not combative) way, because sometimes a dev will be able to provide some information, such as here. However, as a general rule, ArenaNet employees simply do not have the time that would be required to answer individual questions or debate a world linking topic. They do read the forums, however, and will review your constructive feedback on the subject.

I hope these additional details and explanations will help everyone understand our desire for communication coupled with our need to set realistic standards for discussions and forum topics."

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@Hitman.5829 said:

@"viniebc.9568" said:maybe because the devs don't care about wvw anymore

Wait, was there a time when developers care about WvW?I have been playing for 7 years and we have not had a major update that made you said "WOW this game is great"!The only reason I keep playing WvW is because I like to kill people and make them rage when they send me salt PM.

I love the salt! That is the only reason I keep playing WvW.Yet WvW is still as it is today because when the devs made changes, they did listen to the community. Skirmishes (which was shortened because we said the tick was too long), reward tracks (because we complained that sPvP had them), 1:1 downed state (and people
still
kitten about it), DBL 2.0 (after
the community
nearly killed WvW with the vote), etc.

Yeah they fuck up too. But we havent played the game for 7 years because it isnt great. Bad games die in months.

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@Kylden Ar.3724 said:Why would they listen to us when other than the vote to bring back Desert as RBL all we've done is kitten on their work (Desert BL, EotM, Guild WvW upgrades, Siege changes, any attempt to shake things up like no downstate weekend, etc)?

Some of the feedback for those areas have been toxic, and yes, quite off-putting.

But I’d also like to point out some details on those areas as well;

  • Downstate was well received by half of posters who commented in the forums about it. Like other areas of the forum, but particularly the PvE section, there were people that were upset. Look at the general discussion section for the complaints about both the new living story, AND the farming changes to Istan.
  • EoTM. The complaints for EOTM have centered around giving it the same rewards as WvW. People have been able to vote with their feet by not playing it. While it had rewards, it was heavily played by people leveling toons, and farming WxP. Again, see ‘Istan farm’ and it’s subsequent changes.
  • Siege changes: the addition of shield generators was met with a mix of responses, both good and bad. The siege damage changes was met with, again, a mix of responses. Some people liked ACs being nerfed, some people wanted them buffed etc. (I.e. see any balance change in the last 6-7 years in the general discussion threads). The threads weren’t toxic. Some people voiced they wanted it to go further.
  • Guild ‘upgrades’. I quoted upgrades as when the guild hall process was released, MANY guilds were frustrated and angry that the buffs they had ALREADY unlocked for WvW (+5 primarily) was locked behind a significant gold grind. Guilds starting after that change don’t know what the frustration really was. Added to the significant profession changes that HoTs brought about, and the next section, it truly pushed a lot of guilds away from the game.
  • Finally: Desert Borderland (DBL). They asked people to trial the map prior to release. People did, and wrote lengthy posts with honest critiques of problems with the map, (which have since been changed btw) offered suggestions to improve it, and it was the released with none of those suggestions put in place on the map. It truly pushed people from the map and from WvW. The middle event made the game unplayable for many players while it triggered, causing many to dc. I won’t rehash the verticality challenges and the barriers to movement that required siege just to get through to get to towers, nor that lack of strategic placement of all of the structures.

And yet, I don’t believe the developers have given up on the mode, nor stopped working on it, but when there are 4 posts with an Anet answer in the general discussion page (not including closed posts) and 0 posts with an Anet post in the WvW page, it creates the impression that WvW is greatly underserved.

Honestly? I think they provide appropriate feedback, and when taken from a perspective that there are over 5 times as many posts in the General discussion section, I would expect more Dev involvements thatnsection.

Perception becomes hard to overcome.

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@"gebrechen.5643" said:If I had to read this forum as a developer I'd instantly quit my job. This forum isn't good at making suggestions or "helping" developers making the game better.

  • open Blackgate
  • buff my class because I lost vs. X
  • The hammer meta is bad / the pirate ship meta is bad / the condi meta is bad
  • my class takes way more skill than X, so change Y

This all sounds like complaints made in the last few months. Most of the people who used to give solid feedback gave up years ago. When you go unheard/ignored for so long, why bother signing in to give further feedback? That's when posts like the ones your mentioning start to surface...because there is nothing else for people to talk about.

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@"googel.3278" said:Guild wars 2, the epitome of failure. Dressing your characters with ugly skins is content nowadays.

For a "Epitome of Failure" the game survived quite a few "GW2 killers" that people called over and over... You know, I've been hearing "GW2 is dead" for over 6 years now.

Is the game perfect? Not by a longshot. But unfortunely it still better than the vast majority of the garbage we have out there... If only Anet actually polished the jewel they been negleting for most part...

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It's hilarious, but depressing...

This is based on my observation & is only an opinion...truth may vary based on your perspective.

Most WvW expert's supported topics are detrimental & have only lead to declining trends to the WvW game mode's long-term health.ORSome WvW experts are white knights (suspected but not confirmed to be a disguised employee) See - Sock-puppet....only cheering wildly for ANet's decisions & belittling anything NOT supported by ANet.


We're stuck in an echo chamber where constructive criticism is suppressed or lost in the shuffle by an overwhelming avalanche of negative criticism.

It doesn't help that WvW has no concrete vision on where this game mode should be going.

A solid vision would help guide us past the many petty & selfish agendas that are detriments to this unique game mode that has a huge potential to evolve into being the next eSport SuperBowl...

If we don't waste this golden opportunity to make it happen...imho


WvW is an End Game content that brings players back to visit GW2 in-between their Living Story Content (movie theather)...

If you don't think ANet should be concerned with keeping WvW healthy in the Long-Term?

Visit any Successful shopping Mall & you'll find many examples on How important it is to keep foot traffic Consistently Returning & Flowing to support your "Gem" sales.

Your truly,Diku

See some of my past posts...please vote Helpful or Thumbs up if you agree.

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

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@Jeknar.6184 said:

@"googel.3278" said:Guild wars 2, the epitome of failure. Dressing your characters with ugly skins is content nowadays.

If only Anet actually polished the jewel they been negleting for most part...

I think the only time they will turn their eyes to WvW will be when they pull up their statistical dashboard and see how many stopped playing entirely. And if that amount will create a major downward spike on their graphs, they will be like "a-ha, something just happened".

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