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Soulbeast doesn't feel like a ranger


Anuviel.9216

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A ranger is primarily a ranged fighter. That's our niche. The thing that has frustrated me about this profession since release is that we are forced to be at point blank range. I don't mean might and boon stacking - I understand that, but the profession just seems to punish ranged play in most situations because of poor design decisions.

Specifically in this elite spec I am annoyed that 90% of pet abilities while merged are at point blank range. ALL of the beast abilities are (the 3rd skill while merged). The few pets that have ranged abilities (iboga, smokescale, bristleback, jacaranda) are still MUCH shorter than longbow range. It basically restricts your merged pet choice to a "deadly" pet that grants utility that doesn't depend on range which as far as I can see is the bird line (swiftness), jacaranda and moa (heals).

EDIT: just for clarification I'm talking about power builds with longbow - I'm aware it's off-meta but I prefer the playstyle compared to condi druid which I played during HoT.

Why am I always punished for wanting to at max range with the RANGER?

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Well for starters rangers aren't called rangers due to being ranged, they're called rangers because they range the land.

That being said, Soulbeast is very clearly meant to be dancing in and out of the beast mode, and mauling the enemy to death with their pet, the elite spec as a whole lends itself to being a melee centric spec. That's just kinda how it's focused/designed.

However, you can totally use ranged weapons as a Soulbeast, I just wouldn't make it the focus of the build. I currently run with a LB and Dagger/WH and been having fun with it, running with a Flamingo (versatile Moa) and a fernhound (heal pet) and have been using the LB mainly to soften up people for the kill/to attack runners/to stay out of places I don't want to die.

however if I were going to make a ranged focused Soulbeast I'd recommend using a devourer and spider to help you stay away.

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@Anuviel.9216 said:A ranger is primarily a ranged fighter. That's our niche. The thing that has frustrated me about this profession since release is that we are forced to be at point blank range. I don't mean might and boon stacking - I understand that, but the profession just seems to punish ranged play in most situations because of poor design decisions.

Specifically in this elite spec I am annoyed that 90% of pet abilities while merged are at point blank range. ALL of the beast abilities are (the 3rd skill while merged). The few pets that have ranged abilities (iboga, smokescale, bristleback, jacaranda) are still MUCH shorter than longbow range. It basically restricts your merged pet choice to a "deadly" pet that grants utility that doesn't depend on range which as far as I can see is the bird line (swiftness), jacaranda and moa (heals).

EDIT: just for clarification I'm talking about power builds with longbow - I'm aware it's off-meta but I prefer the playstyle compared to condi druid which I played during HoT.

Why am I always punished for wanting to at max range with the RANGER?

As someone who is using long-bow on soulbeast and experiencing no issue, I cannot relate. I do not feel punished and I don't feel forced to play at melee unless something has projectile block/reflection for obvious reasons.

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Risk vs Reward. Why would you get the same rewards at range, as someone who exposes themselves at goes into melee range? You still get to be ranged, and kite with longbow, however, from a balance perspective, it's logical you don't get to do the same damage as someone who swoops into melee range with their great sword. You can always run LB/A-Wh, where you get to swap between long range singel target damage, and medium range utility weapons.

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@Ackzar.9156 said:Risk vs Reward. Why would you get the same rewards at range, as someone who exposes themselves at goes into melee range? You still get to be ranged, and kite with longbow, however, from a balance perspective, it's logical you don't get to do the same damage as someone who swoops into melee range with their great sword. You can always run LB/A-Wh, where you get to swap between long range singel target damage, and medium range utility weapons.

Not logical, in every other mmo ranged classes are the ones that pack the punch while you are weaker defensively. Melee also has cleave while we have to trait for pierce. Now I don't mind at all going melee as a ranger as long as we have survivability that goes along with being a melee class.

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@Ackzar.9156 said:Risk vs Reward. Why would you get the same rewards at range, as someone who exposes themselves at goes into melee range? You still get to be ranged, and kite with longbow, however, from a balance perspective, it's logical you don't get to do the same damage as someone who swoops into melee range with their great sword. You can always run LB/A-Wh, where you get to swap between long range singel target damage, and medium range utility weapons.

I see people say this a lot and it kind of confuses me. How can it be from a balance perspective when ranged is generally considered kind of crap in this game?

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@squiggit.2357 said:

@Ackzar.9156 said:Risk vs Reward. Why would you get the same rewards at range, as someone who exposes themselves at goes into melee range? You still get to be ranged, and kite with longbow, however, from a balance perspective, it's logical you don't get to do the same damage as someone who swoops into melee range with their great sword. You can always run LB/A-Wh, where you get to swap between long range singel target damage, and medium range utility weapons.

I see people say this a lot and it kind of confuses me. How can it be from a balance perspective when ranged is generally considered kind of crap in this game?

Let's say

  • you deal 10K dps with a Melee-Range Greatsword, and
  • also 10K dps with a long-range Longbow
  • It is not balanced to be able to deal the same amount of damage from 1500 range, away from danger, while the GS user has to go into really close range, into the enemy, exposed to deal the same numbers.

So for balance purposes, ranged damage is typically lower than melee damage, hence Low Risk, Low Reward™ (Low Risk, Low DPS)

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@extremexhero.9178 said:Now I don't mind at all going melee as a ranger as long as we have survivability that goes along with being a melee class.

Then you are lucky, since we do. Rangers are quite tanky.

@squiggit.2357 said:I see people say this a lot and it kind of confuses me. How can it be from a balance perspective when ranged is generally considered kind of crap in this game?

It is generally ment from a PvP or WvW perspectiv. And there ranged dps is by no mean crap. Even for some open world PvE it is strong. But for org. closed PvE (fractals, raids etc) however you need the group buffs to do damage and you cant get those if you stand solo at 1500 range. Thats why ranged dps generally are crap there.

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@squiggit.2357 said:

@Ackzar.9156 said:Risk vs Reward. Why would you get the same rewards at range, as someone who exposes themselves at goes into melee range? You still get to be ranged, and kite with longbow, however, from a balance perspective, it's logical you don't get to do the same damage as someone who swoops into melee range with their great sword. You can always run LB/A-Wh, where you get to swap between long range singel target damage, and medium range utility weapons.

I see people say this a lot and it kind of confuses me. How can it be from a balance perspective when ranged is generally considered kind of crap in this game?

Balanced doesn't mean equal. It's balanced against the risk. In most MMOs the balance is between survivability and damage output. This isn't unusual. A ranged ranger is more survivable and thus he does less damage. That's what makes it balanced.

This fallacy that ranger is meant to be ranged, when he's given sword, and greatsword as part of a weapon set, came from older games giving a ranger a bow. Aragorn was a ranger in Lord of the Rings, but it was Legolas who used a bow. Aragorn was a ranger. He used a sword.

On topic: I feel like the Soulbeast is just the sort of thing the ranger needed to be more than what he was. It's the next logical step, melding with your pet. It's nice to control them, but even nicer to become them.

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@Durzlla.6295 said:Well for starters rangers aren't called rangers due to being ranged, they're called rangers because they range the land.

That being said, Soulbeast is very clearly meant to be dancing in and out of the beast mode, and mauling the enemy to death with their pet, the elite spec as a whole lends itself to being a melee centric spec. That's just kinda how it's focused/designed.

However, you can totally use ranged weapons as a Soulbeast, I just wouldn't make it the focus of the build. I currently run with a LB and Dagger/WH and been having fun with it, running with a Flamingo (versatile Moa) and a fernhound (heal pet) and have been using the LB mainly to soften up people for the kill/to attack runners/to stay out of places I don't want to die.

however if I were going to make a ranged focused Soulbeast I'd recommend using a devourer and spider to help you stay away.

You don't swap out of merging. You stay merged because the merged skills are a DPS boost for condi builds. And greatsword is garbage and has been for 5 years with no sign of buffs.

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@Kahrgan.7401 said:

@Garimeth.8725 said:I think soulbeast feels more like ranger than druid did... and I liked druid, it just wasn't how i wanted to play my ranger, heck i rerolled DH...

I concur, SB > druid

Personal tastes I guess.I like all three versions in their own way.I feel like the base was a survivalist who had companions, one was more attuned with the world while the other was more attuned toward living animals.I felt these were all beautiful ideas that were taken on for the ranger.

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@hellsqueen.3045 said:

@Kahrgan.7401 said:

@Garimeth.8725 said:I think soulbeast feels more like ranger than druid did... and I liked druid, it just wasn't how i wanted to play my ranger, heck i rerolled DH...

I concur, SB > druid

Personal tastes I guess.I like all three versions in their own way.I feel like the base was a survivalist who had companions, one was more attuned with the world while the other was more attuned toward living animals.I felt these were all beautiful ideas that were taken on for the ranger.

This is exactly how I view it, I like that both of our elite specs have a very Druidy feel, especially since rangers in GW have always been known as having quite a lot of nature magic.

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@Zenith.7301 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:Well for starters rangers aren't called rangers due to being ranged, they're called rangers because they range the land.

That being said, Soulbeast is very clearly meant to be dancing in and out of the beast mode, and mauling the enemy to death with their pet, the elite spec as a whole lends itself to being a melee centric spec. That's just kinda how it's focused/designed.

However, you can totally use ranged weapons as a Soulbeast, I just wouldn't make it the focus of the build. I currently run with a LB and Dagger/WH and been having fun with it, running with a Flamingo (versatile Moa) and a fernhound (heal pet) and have been using the LB mainly to soften up people for the kill/to attack runners/to stay out of places I don't want to die.

however if I were going to make a ranged focused Soulbeast I'd recommend using a devourer and spider to help you stay away.

You don't swap out of merging. You stay merged because the merged skills are a DPS boost for condi builds. And greatsword is garbage and has been for 5 years with no sign of buffs.

They have buffed it several times already.The only thing they haven't buffed are the autos. Which is also the only thing holding it back.

And yes, you do swap in and out of merge. If you're doing anything else than pve.

As for OP, Soulbeast crosschecked a lot that the core ranger should have had from the get go. Merging and a mainhand dagger, mainly.

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@Anuviel.9216 said:EDIT: just for clarification I'm talking about power builds with longbow - I'm aware it's off-meta but I prefer the playstyle compared to condi druid which I played during HoT.

Why am I always punished for wanting to at max range with the RANGER?

First... no one said you need to be playing Soulbeast then if you prefer a standard ranger. Soulbeast isn't supposed to be better than the standard build, just a different way of playing the class. Soulbeast is supposed to be a melee spec. So if you like standard longbow ranger, then play a standard spec. No one is forcing you to play Soulbeast or even Druid.

2nd... No one is punishing you, you are punishing yourself. Just play a standard build ranger if that's what you prefer. Its not rocket science. This is your game and your time. You decide how you want to spend it.

Lastly... You seem to be confusing "ranger" with archer, or possibly sniper. Or you could be confusing Ranger with a Hunter from other games. Ranger by definition:

  1. a keeper of a park, forest, or area of countryside.
  2. a member of a body of armed men, in particular.a mounted soldier.USa commando or highly trained infantryman.
  3. a person or thing that wanders or ranges over a particular area or domain.

A Hunter is not even a ranged specialist with a pet. Lions, panthers, eagles, sharks, etc... all Hunters. There is nothing that specifies that a hunter only uses a ranged weapon.

There is also nothing that specifies that a "ranger" attacks from range. Aragon from LOR was a ranger and he was mostly a sword fighter. Rangers in the army are like the definition states, a highly trained infantryman. Ranger =/= pure archer =/= sniper. The term ranger has nothing to do with attacking from range at all.

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@ProtoMarcus.7649 said:

@squiggit.2357 said:

@Ackzar.9156 said:Risk vs Reward. Why would you get the same rewards at range, as someone who exposes themselves at goes into melee range? You still get to be ranged, and kite with longbow, however, from a balance perspective, it's logical you don't get to do the same damage as someone who swoops into melee range with their great sword. You can always run LB/A-Wh, where you get to swap between long range singel target damage, and medium range utility weapons.

I see people say this a lot and it kind of confuses me. How can it be from a balance perspective when ranged is generally considered kind of crap in this game?

Let's say
  • you deal 10K dps with a Melee-Range Greatsword, and
  • also 10K dps with a long-range Longbow
  • It is not balanced to be able to deal the same amount of damage
    from 1500 range,
    away from danger, while the GS user has to go into
    really close range,
    into the enemy, exposed to deal the same numbers.

So for balance purposes, ranged damage is typically
lower
than melee damage, hence Low Risk, Low Reward™
(Low Risk, Low DPS)

Ranged offers more risk though. One reflect/projectile block and the pewpew is shut down.

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@Lazze.9870 said:They have buffed it several times already.The only thing they haven't buffed are the autos. Which is also the only thing holding it back.

And yes, you do swap in and out of merge. If you're doing anything else than pve.

As for OP, Soulbeast crosschecked a lot that the core ranger should have had from the get go. Merging and a mainhand dagger, mainly.

Nah they did buff the auto, but it was so little that I'm not surprised you didn't know.

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Why do people always get stuck with semantics in this kind of topic? Yeah, we get it, a ranger isn't someone that fights at range if you take the meaning of the world IRL, but this doesn't change the fact that the ranger is the primary "archer" profession of the game. It SHOULD be the best class fighting at range, alongside elementalists.

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@felipelana.1963 said:Why do people always get stuck with semantics in this kind of topic? Yeah, we get it, a ranger isn't someone that fights at range if you take the meaning of the world IRL, but this doesn't change the fact that the ranger is the primary "archer" profession of the game. It SHOULD be the best class fighting at range, alongside elementalists.

I mean, ranger IS the best class for fighting at range, that doesn't mean that fighting at range is going to suddenly be better than stacking in melee with how raids and fractals work nowadays.

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