[suggestion]Unhindered Combatant

[freedomtolove.5476]

@Xenji.4907 said:

@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:I still personally don't see the reason in Nerfing unhindered combatant the way they did though. I also don't understand why Anet thinks it's a problem that thief can run away. They keep nerfing the kitten out of the thief's kit. So obviously, the thief's primary option if things go south is to just run away. Why the kitten would they stay and die to a class that can out do them in just about everything Anet took away?

How is it a nerf? It is scaled better so you will space out your dash and do it at the correct time. So spamming dash(beginning players) will be punished. Better players will know when to dash and when not to.

Edit: Sorry forgot to also say in wvw you get crippled a lot more. So there is a reduce in exhaust time and I am loving it. It feels so much better now. I don't get immob all the time since I am not close to a blob to get nuked with CC anyways. Only when I make the mistake of getting too close or run over by a blob train.

And yes it stacks but you have to dodge with a cc on and dodge again with another cc and dodge again with another cc after that then yes it will punish you with 3 stacks of exhaust for spamming and being nuked with cc(s). It's rare and plus why did you put yourself in this situation?

Because it's your dodge and isn't used for just removing CC but for dodging attacks. Are thief players supposed to just avoid most team fights and 1v1 exclusively? This class isn't even close to the best at 1v1ing anymore. We can't fight in zergs in WvWvW and we can't decap any faster in pvp with all the mobility given to other classes. So what is thief's strength now exactly?

Also all the stealth detection given to other players via Marked effect and traps (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed) makes half our class aka stealth obsolete. Then you've got mounts added which can out-run thieves with shortbow so what's next guys? What do we have that's unique to our class?

And before you mention shadow meld let me remind you that Detected! is an effect applied to players that enter stealth while they are marked. If they are stealthed for more than 2 seconds while detected, they will become revealed. Exiting stealth before this effect expires will remove this effect.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@getalifeturd.8139 said:

@Xenji.4907 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:I still personally don't see the reason in Nerfing unhindered combatant the way they did though. I also don't understand why Anet thinks it's a problem that thief can run away. They keep nerfing the kitten out of the thief's kit. So obviously, the thief's primary option if things go south is to just run away. Why the kitten would they stay and die to a class that can out do them in just about everything Anet took away?

How is it a nerf? It is scaled better so you will space out your dash and do it at the correct time. So spamming dash(beginning players) will be punished. Better players will know when to dash and when not to.

Edit: Sorry forgot to also say in wvw you get crippled a lot more. So there is a reduce in exhaust time and I am loving it. It feels so much better now. I don't get immob all the time since I am not close to a blob to get nuked with CC anyways. Only when I make the mistake of getting too close or run over by a blob train.

And yes it stacks but you have to dodge with a cc on and dodge again with another cc and dodge again with another cc after that then yes it will punish you with 3 stacks of exhaust for spamming and being nuked with cc(s). It's rare and plus why did you put yourself in this situation?

Because it's your dodge and isn't used for just removing CC but for dodging attacks. Are thief players supposed to just avoid most team fights and 1v1 exclusively? This class isn't even close to the best at 1v1ing anymore. We can't fight in zergs in WvWvW and we can't decap any faster in pvp with all the mobility given to other classes. So what is thief's strength now exactly?

You don't get Exhaustion if you don't break a CC. So I don't think you know what you're talking about.

[freedomtolove.5476]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@getalifeturd.8139 said:

@Xenji.4907 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:I still personally don't see the reason in Nerfing unhindered combatant the way they did though. I also don't understand why Anet thinks it's a problem that thief can run away. They keep nerfing the kitten out of the thief's kit. So obviously, the thief's primary option if things go south is to just run away. Why the kitten would they stay and die to a class that can out do them in just about everything Anet took away?

How is it a nerf? It is scaled better so you will space out your dash and do it at the correct time. So spamming dash(beginning players) will be punished. Better players will know when to dash and when not to.

Edit: Sorry forgot to also say in wvw you get crippled a lot more. So there is a reduce in exhaust time and I am loving it. It feels so much better now. I don't get immob all the time since I am not close to a blob to get nuked with CC anyways. Only when I make the mistake of getting too close or run over by a blob train.

And yes it stacks but you have to dodge with a cc on and dodge again with another cc and dodge again with another cc after that then yes it will punish you with 3 stacks of exhaust for spamming and being nuked with cc(s). It's rare and plus why did you put yourself in this situation?

Because it's your dodge and isn't used for just removing CC but for dodging attacks. Are thief players supposed to just avoid most team fights and 1v1 exclusively? This class isn't even close to the best at 1v1ing anymore. We can't fight in zergs in WvWvW and we can't decap any faster in pvp with all the mobility given to other classes. So what is thief's strength now exactly?

You don't get Exhaustion if you don't break a CC. So I don't think you know what you're talking about.

What I meant if you didn't understand is that you use your dodge for more than just breaking CC but for avoiding attacks. So that means that if you have a CC on you when you need to dodge an attack well too bad you get hit with exhaustion. Dodging is used to avoid attacks and sometimes breaking a CC is not the intended effect but a side effect.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@getalifeturd.8139 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@getalifeturd.8139 said:

@Xenji.4907 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:I still personally don't see the reason in Nerfing unhindered combatant the way they did though. I also don't understand why Anet thinks it's a problem that thief can run away. They keep nerfing the kitten out of the thief's kit. So obviously, the thief's primary option if things go south is to just run away. Why the kitten would they stay and die to a class that can out do them in just about everything Anet took away?

How is it a nerf? It is scaled better so you will space out your dash and do it at the correct time. So spamming dash(beginning players) will be punished. Better players will know when to dash and when not to.

Edit: Sorry forgot to also say in wvw you get crippled a lot more. So there is a reduce in exhaust time and I am loving it. It feels so much better now. I don't get immob all the time since I am not close to a blob to get nuked with CC anyways. Only when I make the mistake of getting too close or run over by a blob train.

And yes it stacks but you have to dodge with a cc on and dodge again with another cc and dodge again with another cc after that then yes it will punish you with 3 stacks of exhaust for spamming and being nuked with cc(s). It's rare and plus why did you put yourself in this situation?

Because it's your dodge and isn't used for just removing CC but for dodging attacks. Are thief players supposed to just avoid most team fights and 1v1 exclusively? This class isn't even close to the best at 1v1ing anymore. We can't fight in zergs in WvWvW and we can't decap any faster in pvp with all the mobility given to other classes. So what is thief's strength now exactly?

You don't get Exhaustion if you don't break a CC. So I don't think you know what you're talking about.

What I meant if you didn't understand is that you use your dodge for more than just breaking CC but for avoiding attacks. So that means that if you have a CC on you when you need to dodge an attack well too bad you get hit with exhaustion. Dodging is used to avoid attacks and sometimes breaking a CC is not the intended effect but a side effect.

What you failed to understand is that you can still use your dodge to evade even without breaking a CC. If you try to dodge an attack while Immobilized, well you can't, thus a small price of Exhaustion to evade that attack by breaking the CC is warranted. If the attack won't kill you, for example full health, then just take the hit instead of dodging. If you are using a Staff, you can evade with #3 and #5. You don't have to dodge every attack even if you have 3 dodges. There are other ways to evade attacks without using Endurance.

[Xenji.4907]

@"getalifeturd.8139" said:Because it's your dodge and isn't used for just removing CC but for dodging attacks. Are thief players supposed to just avoid most team fights and 1v1 exclusively? This class isn't even close to the best at 1v1ing anymore. We can't fight in zergs in WvWvW and we can't decap any faster in pvp with all the mobility given to other classes. So what is thief's strength now exactly?

Its for both.Uh... we are not meant to 1vs1... maybe s/d core but anybody that plays pvp or wvw should know that we specialize in mobility and +1ing. Yes we don't zerg well but we can roam well (invis, and escape. Thats why sustain is really big now to counter us). Really? I Decap and run all the time. That is our strength. Some sets don't excell well which is a problem with so many boon farting and sustain that other class but they have their own problems but this is not about Unhindered Combatant...

Also all the stealth detection given to other players via Marked effect and traps (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed) makes half our class aka stealth obsolete. Then you've got mounts added which can out-run thieves with shortbow so what's next guys? What do we have that's unique to our class?

Well blame that to the perm invis from DE. They ruined it. Plus, i build around speed and burst. Invis is just for a set up for Backstab and quick running away. Out run shortbow? Sometimes if we are in their claimed area but not in mine. I shortbow them easy and I would get off mounts for my shortbow since its fast in my opinion.

And before you mention shadow meld let me remind you that Detected! is an effect applied to players that enter stealth while they are marked. If they are stealthed for more than 2 seconds while detected, they will become revealed. Exiting stealth before this effect expires will remove this effect.

See your anger is mostly about stealth problems and not UC.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Xenji.4907 said:

@getalifeturd.8139 said:Because it's your dodge and isn't used for just removing CC but for dodging attacks. Are thief players supposed to just avoid most team fights and 1v1 exclusively? This class isn't even close to the best at 1v1ing anymore. We can't fight in zergs in WvWvW and we can't decap any faster in pvp with all the mobility given to other classes. So what is thief's strength now exactly?

Its for both.Uh... we are not meant to 1vs1... maybe s/d core but anybody that plays pvp or wvw should know that we specialize in mobility and +1ing. Yes we don't zerg well but we can roam well (invis, and escape. Thats why sustain is really big now to counter us). Really? I Decap and run all the time. That is our strength. Some sets don't excell well which is a problem with so many boon farting and sustain that other class but they have their own problems but this is not about Unhindered Combatant...

Not to mention in a 1v1, the Daredevil's chances of getting CC locked is zero.

[freedomtolove.5476]

@Xenji.4907 said:

@"getalifeturd.8139" said:Because it's your dodge and isn't used for just removing CC but for dodging attacks. Are thief players supposed to just avoid most team fights and 1v1 exclusively? This class isn't even close to the best at 1v1ing anymore. We can't fight in zergs in WvWvW and we can't decap any faster in pvp with all the mobility given to other classes. So what is thief's strength now exactly?

Its for both.Uh... we are not meant to 1vs1... maybe s/d core but anybody that plays pvp or wvw should know that we specialize in mobility and +1ing. Yes we don't zerg well but we can roam well (invis, and escape. Thats why sustain is really big now to counter us). Really? I Decap and run all the time. That is our strength. Some sets don't excell well which is a problem with so many boon farting and sustain that other class but they have their own problems but this is not about Unhindered Combatant...

Also all the stealth detection given to other players via Marked effect and traps (

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

) makes half our class aka stealth obsolete. Then you've got mounts added which can out-run thieves with shortbow so what's next guys? What do we have that's unique to our class?

Well blame that to the perm invis from DE. They ruined it. Plus, i build around speed and burst. Invis is just for a set up for Backstab and quick running away. Out run shortbow? Sometimes if we are in their claimed area but not in mine. I shortbow them easy and I would get off mounts for my shortbow since its fast in my opinion.

And before you mention shadow meld let me remind you that Detected! is an effect applied to players that enter stealth while they are marked. If they are stealthed for more than 2 seconds while detected, they will become revealed. Exiting stealth before this effect expires will remove this effect.

See your anger is mostly about stealth problems and not UC.

I'm not angry mate but the thing is that all of our options have become limited. We don't have much choice when it comes to variety in builds. They nerf every new option we get and older options too at the same time. You've both mentioned s/d core and of course d/p shortbow has been meta since launch. Tell me what happened to the build diversity of thief?

[Xenji.4907]

@"getalifeturd.8139" said:I'm not angry mate but the thing is that all of our options have become limited. We don't have much choice when it comes to variety in builds. They nerf every new option we get and older options too at the same time. You've both mentioned s/d core and of course d/p shortbow has been meta since launch. Tell me what happened to the build diversity of thief?

Angry; meaning your channeled passion is at but yes you are not upset.I see what you mean and understand your frustration. In this game each weapon combo excel at certain thing. PVE you need standing good continue damage with amazing scaling damage which dual dagger set is great at. PVP - good dueling and small scale fights; you would slowly move away from dual daggers... why? Because it's hard to pressure or have little evasive skills unless you have it on the utilities. Then you would move to S/D and D/P which has those without using your utilities skills. Because you have more CC, movement, but less damage. So I feel what we call meta is easy to use and all around in that special niche. You can try to bring D/D into pvp and wvw but you need to move it where it's good at; Condi but can't just stand there you will die from CC and enemies sustained. I have moved away from the "meta". It's good for starting out but after awhile you will understand your roll some more and where it excel for you as a playstyle then go for it. I play d/p dash with crit-strike and run in wvw blob. My guild loves me for taking out bad winds and taking down popped or running players. I would take them down to down-state and then let my blob take them and go after the next target. See where you have fun at and start there. Don't let the toxic of meta and elite people take you down. Learn what you are doing that is not working and adapt. Blaming Anet all the times doesn't help you in any way. Anet will do what they want to do since it's their game. We have no control over what they do. You can bring it up to them with good example and suggestion and they might listen but it's rare.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@getalifeturd.8139 said:

@Xenji.4907 said:

@getalifeturd.8139 said:Because it's your dodge and isn't used for just removing CC but for dodging attacks. Are thief players supposed to just avoid most team fights and 1v1 exclusively? This class isn't even close to the best at 1v1ing anymore. We can't fight in zergs in WvWvW and we can't decap any faster in pvp with all the mobility given to other classes. So what is thief's strength now exactly?

Its for both.Uh... we are not meant to 1vs1... maybe s/d core but anybody that plays pvp or wvw should know that we specialize in mobility and +1ing. Yes we don't zerg well but we can roam well (invis, and escape. Thats why sustain is really big now to counter us). Really? I Decap and run all the time. That is our strength. Some sets don't excell well which is a problem with so many boon farting and sustain that other class but they have their own problems but this is not about Unhindered Combatant...

Also all the stealth detection given to other players via Marked effect and traps (

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

) makes half our class aka stealth obsolete. Then you've got mounts added which can out-run thieves with shortbow so what's next guys? What do we have that's unique to our class?

Well blame that to the perm invis from DE. They ruined it. Plus, i build around speed and burst. Invis is just for a set up for Backstab and quick running away. Out run shortbow? Sometimes if we are in their claimed area but not in mine. I shortbow them easy and I would get off mounts for my shortbow since its fast in my opinion.

And before you mention shadow meld let me remind you that Detected! is an effect applied to players that enter stealth while they are marked. If they are stealthed for more than 2 seconds while detected, they will become revealed. Exiting stealth before this effect expires will remove this effect.

See your anger is mostly about stealth problems and not UC.

I'm not angry mate but the thing is that all of our options have become limited. We don't have much choice when it comes to variety in builds. They nerf every new option we get and older options too at the same time. You've both mentioned s/d core and of course d/p shortbow has been meta since launch. Tell me what happened to the build diversity of thief?

Your build choices is only limited to what you want to do.

• If you want to decap and +1, then there's more than one build for that.
• If you want to stay in the node and defend, there's more than one build for that.
• If want to play tactical and remove boons, there's a build for that.
• If you want to roam in WvW, there's more than one build for that.
• If you want to DPS in raids, there's a build for that.

So I don't see why you're complaining about limited options. What makes the meta for you is the build that you can play well, not the build that you should play just because some top players are good at it.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@getalifeturd.8139 said:

@Xenji.4907 said:

@getalifeturd.8139 said:Because it's your dodge and isn't used for just removing CC but for dodging attacks. Are thief players supposed to just avoid most team fights and 1v1 exclusively? This class isn't even close to the best at 1v1ing anymore. We can't fight in zergs in WvWvW and we can't decap any faster in pvp with all the mobility given to other classes. So what is thief's strength now exactly?

Its for both.Uh... we are not meant to 1vs1... maybe s/d core but anybody that plays pvp or wvw should know that we specialize in mobility and +1ing. Yes we don't zerg well but we can roam well (invis, and escape. Thats why sustain is really big now to counter us). Really? I Decap and run all the time. That is our strength. Some sets don't excell well which is a problem with so many boon farting and sustain that other class but they have their own problems but this is not about Unhindered Combatant...

Also all the stealth detection given to other players via Marked effect and traps (

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

) makes half our class aka stealth obsolete. Then you've got mounts added which can out-run thieves with shortbow so what's next guys? What do we have that's unique to our class?

Well blame that to the perm invis from DE. They ruined it. Plus, i build around speed and burst. Invis is just for a set up for Backstab and quick running away. Out run shortbow? Sometimes if we are in their claimed area but not in mine. I shortbow them easy and I would get off mounts for my shortbow since its fast in my opinion.

And before you mention shadow meld let me remind you that Detected! is an effect applied to players that enter stealth while they are marked. If they are stealthed for more than 2 seconds while detected, they will become revealed. Exiting stealth before this effect expires will remove this effect.

See your anger is mostly about stealth problems and not UC.

I'm not angry mate but the thing is that all of our options have become limited. We don't have much choice when it comes to variety in builds. They nerf every new option we get and older options too at the same time. You've both mentioned s/d core and of course d/p shortbow has been meta since launch. Tell me what happened to the build diversity of thief?

Your build choices is only limited to what you want to do.

• If you want to decap and +1, then there's more than one build for that.
• If you want to stay in the node and defend, there's more than one build for that.
• If want to play tactical and remove boons, there's a build for that.
• If you want to roam in WvW, there's more than one build for that.
• If you want to DPS in raids, there's a build for that.

So I don't see why you're complaining about limited options. What makes the meta for you is the build that you can play well, not the build that you should play just because some top players are good at it.

I think he's more so talking about the fact that some of thief's options is more like shooting yourself in the foot to use, compared to everything else.

Trickery almost always eats up a Trait line slot because of Preparedness is too much to give up with the costs of Thief's skills in PvP. It's removal, and adjustment of thief's initiative costs and charge rates will open up options. Replace Preparedness with something Like Pack-Tactics - gives Thief a stacking buff for being in proximity of team players (up to three players). Each additional player adds a different buff in this order: First is a stacking increase to movement speed, second is initiative recharge rate speed up, third is increased power.

Some of Thieves Utilities and traits are dysfunctional:

• Shadow Trap is a prime example. Anet clearly does not plan on fixing it despite it being brought up at least ten times a month. I am fairly certain it has not been used since the nerf and people figured out that it no longer worked properly.
• Pulminary Impact is rarely used now. The damage isn't worth it for something that's generally hard to do. A good solution without raising damage is to apply a unique debuff that significantly lowers the healing a player can do. Hemorrhage - Reduce all effective healing by 20%, stacks with poison (As in you hit them in the pulmonary artery). Or Apply Exhaustion for a few seconds, as you hit them hard in the lungs.

Some of thieves Utilities take too long to use, or to be effective. Pretty much has to be used in stealth, either blowing two utilities if you're dagger dagger. Or blowing a lot of initiative if you are dagger pistol.

• Caltrops has a 1 second cast time, which is basically an eternity of doing bone fuck nothing to throw a bunch of pointy things on the ground in a small area. The ability would be more useful if it could be casted in half a second, and the caltrops stayed for a longer duration. Scorpion wire would be useful, if the projectile thrown actually traveled faster. You can see it coming from a mile away as it has a very distinct animation which is unusual to a thief, and the projectile is also whirling for some reason.
• The Thieves Guild Elite skill takes 2 seconds to cast. What makes this a little ridiculous is that the AI is the PvE model, and doesn't match the model that you could find in the Mist. Which could wreck your shit. I'd be fine with the cast time if the AI was upgraded. But as it stands, they aren't worth much unless that thief starts mass spamming his scorpion wire. So... you have to cast it early... which feels odd given elites are meant to turn the tables.

And Some of the thieves traits are kinda pointless at times.

• Two Second evasion is nice... till you realize you're still ticking down from condi with your small health pool. Awesome against power builds however.... except that their damage is high enough to blast through your HP before it's triggered. I would honestly raise the thresh hold a bit for their low HP pool.
• Dodge for one point of initiative, on a five second cool down.... whoooooooo.
• Healing for initiative spent sounds good. But the amount is barely enough to help you withstand one punch to the face after blowing through a health bar. If the hit was glancing, sure... but even a weakened blow hurts like fuck. And given that everyone either runs High crit Power, or Condi... it's kinda not worth taking most of the time.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@getalifeturd.8139 said:

@Xenji.4907 said:

@getalifeturd.8139 said:Because it's your dodge and isn't used for just removing CC but for dodging attacks. Are thief players supposed to just avoid most team fights and 1v1 exclusively? This class isn't even close to the best at 1v1ing anymore. We can't fight in zergs in WvWvW and we can't decap any faster in pvp with all the mobility given to other classes. So what is thief's strength now exactly?

Its for both.Uh... we are not meant to 1vs1... maybe s/d core but anybody that plays pvp or wvw should know that we specialize in mobility and +1ing. Yes we don't zerg well but we can roam well (invis, and escape. Thats why sustain is really big now to counter us). Really? I Decap and run all the time. That is our strength. Some sets don't excell well which is a problem with so many boon farting and sustain that other class but they have their own problems but this is not about Unhindered Combatant...

Also all the stealth detection given to other players via Marked effect and traps (

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

) makes half our class aka stealth obsolete. Then you've got mounts added which can out-run thieves with shortbow so what's next guys? What do we have that's unique to our class?

Well blame that to the perm invis from DE. They ruined it. Plus, i build around speed and burst. Invis is just for a set up for Backstab and quick running away. Out run shortbow? Sometimes if we are in their claimed area but not in mine. I shortbow them easy and I would get off mounts for my shortbow since its fast in my opinion.

And before you mention shadow meld let me remind you that Detected! is an effect applied to players that enter stealth while they are marked. If they are stealthed for more than 2 seconds while detected, they will become revealed. Exiting stealth before this effect expires will remove this effect.

See your anger is mostly about stealth problems and not UC.

I'm not angry mate but the thing is that all of our options have become limited. We don't have much choice when it comes to variety in builds. They nerf every new option we get and older options too at the same time. You've both mentioned s/d core and of course d/p shortbow has been meta since launch. Tell me what happened to the build diversity of thief?

Your build choices is only limited to what you want to do.

• If you want to decap and +1, then there's more than one build for that.
• If you want to stay in the node and defend, there's more than one build for that.
• If want to play tactical and remove boons, there's a build for that.
• If you want to roam in WvW, there's more than one build for that.
• If you want to DPS in raids, there's a build for that.

So I don't see why you're complaining about limited options. What makes the meta for you is the build that you can play well, not the build that you should play just because some top players are good at it.

I think he's more so talking about the fact that some of thief's options is more like shooting yourself in the foot to use, compared to everything else.

Trickery almost always eats up a Trait line slot because of Preparedness is too much to give up with the costs of Thief's skills in PvP. It's removal, and adjustment of thief's initiative costs and charge rates will open up options. Replace Preparedness with something Like Pack-Tactics - gives Thief a stacking buff for being in proximity of team players (up to three players). Each additional player adds a different buff in this order: First is a stacking increase to movement speed, second is initiative recharge rate speed up, third is increased power.

Thief takes Trickery for several reason other than just Preparedness. I personally take it for Trickster, Lead Attacks, and Sleight of Hand. The reduced CDs are just too good to pass. So even if Preparedness becomes baseline, I'd still pick it if I need those traits. So it will take up a trait line slot regardless because Trickery is just too good.

In all fairness, DA is a staple traitline regardless of builds. If you go condition damage, you get potent poison. If you go power, you get Executioner. If you like to gamble, you take Improv. DA is just as good as Trickery.

Just like DA, DD's choices are between power (Bound), condition (Lotus), or gambler (Dash).

Nevertheless, the options are there.

Some of Thieves Utilities and traits are dysfunctional:

• Shadow Trap is a prime example. Anet clearly does not plan on fixing it despite it being brought up at least ten times a month. I am fairly certain it has not been used since the nerf and people figured out that it no longer worked properly.

It never worked ever since the beginning and the problem lies with the implementation of shadowstep.

What I don't understand is, what exactly is so good about Shadow Trap?

It's a 45s CD that grants 10 stacks of might. That's not very appealing. I can stack more than 10 might in 12s using Unload twice.It grants 5s of stealth, which is nice but why would you stay in stealth for 5s if your might stack only lasts for 10s?Stun break? That's a very expensive stun break compare to Bandit's Defense.

As it stands, Shadow Trap has no value.

Shadow Trap's effect is based on GW1's Scorpion Wire. When you hex your target and they tried to run away, you automatically shadowstep to them and knock them down. That skill has value because first of all it's not a trap, second it triggered in a short distance, and finally it actually does something to the target -- it knocks them down setting them up for a combo. Not to mention, it's only 10s cooldown. So in a sense, Shadow Trap is a poor imitation of GW1's Scorpion Wire.

• Pulminary Impact is rarely used now. The damage isn't worth it for something that's generally hard to do. A good solution without raising damage is to apply a unique debuff that significantly lowers the healing a player can do. Hemorrhage - Reduce all effective healing by 20%, stacks with poison (As in you hit them in the pulmonary artery). Or Apply Exhaustion for a few seconds, as you hit them hard in the lungs.

Pulmonary Impact is a poor implementation of GW1's Deep Wounds. The damage it makes averages 20% of the target's health and it ignores armor. Then add poison to that you get a GW2 version of Deep Wound. This trait suffered from a 15% damage nerf, so it's not worth taking anymore. They should really just bring back Deep Wound.

Some of thieves Utilities take too long to use, or to be effective. Pretty much has to be used in stealth, either blowing two utilities if you're dagger dagger. Or blowing a lot of initiative if you are dagger pistol.

• Caltrops has a 1 second cast time, which is basically an eternity of doing bone kitten nothing to throw a bunch of pointy things on the ground in a small area. The ability would be more useful if it could be casted in half a second, and the caltrops stayed for a longer duration. Scorpion wire would be useful, if the projectile thrown actually traveled faster. You can see it coming from a mile away as it has a very distinct animation which is unusual to a thief, and the projectile is also whirling for some reason.
• The Thieves Guild Elite skill takes 2 seconds to cast. What makes this a little ridiculous is that the AI is the PvE model, and doesn't match the model that you could find in the Mist. Which could wreck your kitten. I'd be fine with the cast time if the AI was upgraded. But as it stands, they aren't worth much unless that thief starts mass spamming his scorpion wire. So... you have to cast it early... which feels odd given elites are meant to turn the tables.

This I agree. Specially the weapon skills, they all need to have their activation time cut by half and the casting delays cut by 25%.

And Some of the thieves traits are kinda pointless at times.

• Two Second evasion is nice... till you realize you're still ticking down from condi with your small health pool. Awesome against power builds however.... except that their damage is high enough to blast through your HP before it's triggered. I would honestly raise the thresh hold a bit for their low HP pool.

Well this trait is actually best with Escapist Absolution. You shouldn't take it otherwise.

• Dodge for one point of initiative, on a five second cool down.... whoooooooo.

Yeah that GM trait is just awful. Why would you even take that over Don't Stop or AR?

• Healing for initiative spent sounds good. But the amount is barely enough to help you withstand one punch to the face after blowing through a health bar. If the hit was glancing, sure... but even a weakened blow hurts like kitten. And given that everyone either runs High crit Power, or Condi... it's kinda not worth taking most of the time.

Just like Instant Reflex, this is best with Signet of Malice and you shouldn't take it otherwise.

Some traits and skills are meant to compliment each other. However each build should compliment your playstyle. Not everyone can play the suggested meta build. It's susceptible to crit hits and if you don't know how to evade, there are other options. But the bottom line is, there are options.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Some of Thieves Utilities and traits are dysfunctional:

• Shadow Trap is a prime example. Anet clearly does not plan on fixing it despite it being brought up at least ten times a month. I am fairly certain it has not been used since the nerf and people figured out that it no longer worked properly.

It never worked ever since the beginning and the problem lies with the implementation of shadowstep.

What I don't understand is, what exactly is so good about Shadow Trap?

It's a 45s CD that grants 10 stacks of might. That's not very appealing. I can stack more than 10 might in 12s using Unload twice.It grants 5s of stealth, which is nice but why would you stay in stealth for 5s if your might stack only lasts for 10s?Stun break? That's a very expensive stun break compare to Bandit's Defense.

As it stands, Shadow Trap has no value.

Shadow Trap's effect is based on GW1's Scorpion Wire. When you hex your target and they tried to run away, you automatically shadowstep to them and knock them down. That skill has value because first of all it's not a trap, second it triggered in a short distance, and finally it actually does something to the target -- it knocks them down setting them up for a combo. Not to mention, it's only 10s cooldown. So in a sense, Shadow Trap is a poor imitation of GW1's Scorpion Wire.

I use shadow trap a lot in WvW at the moment, but I admit you have to run traps with trapper runes to get the most from them, which isn't a popular playstyle, and you have to be very careful where you place it if you want the long distance port. With the runes, it gives you 3s of stealth to set up your engage, while also providing a free port back out so you can save your shadowstep. You can use it to set up traps in choke points, you also use it while kiting to avoid packs of enemies on mounts pretty effectively. For 1v1, there are definitely better options, but for roaming it can still be pretty useful if you build into it.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Some of Thieves Utilities and traits are dysfunctional:

• Shadow Trap is a prime example. Anet clearly does not plan on fixing it despite it being brought up at least ten times a month. I am fairly certain it has not been used since the nerf and people figured out that it no longer worked properly.

It never worked ever since the beginning and the problem lies with the implementation of shadowstep.

What I don't understand is, what exactly is so good about Shadow Trap?

It's a 45s CD that grants 10 stacks of might. That's not very appealing. I can stack more than 10 might in 12s using Unload twice.It grants 5s of stealth, which is nice but why would you stay in stealth for 5s if your might stack only lasts for 10s?Stun break? That's a very expensive stun break compare to Bandit's Defense.

As it stands, Shadow Trap has no value.

Shadow Trap's effect is based on GW1's Scorpion Wire. When you hex your target and they tried to run away, you automatically shadowstep to them and knock them down. That skill has value because first of all it's not a trap, second it triggered in a short distance, and finally it actually does something to the target -- it knocks them down setting them up for a combo. Not to mention, it's only 10s cooldown. So in a sense, Shadow Trap is a poor imitation of GW1's Scorpion Wire.

I use shadow trap a lot in WvW at the moment, but I admit you have to run traps with trapper runes to get the most from them, which isn't a popular playstyle, and you have to be very careful where you place it if you want the long distance port. With the runes, it gives you 3s of stealth to set up your engage, while also providing a free port back out so you can save your shadowstep. You can use it to set up traps in choke points, you also use it while kiting to avoid packs of enemies on mounts pretty effectively. For 1v1, there are definitely better options, but for roaming it can still be pretty useful if you build into it.

Don't use it so anet can fix the unreliable nature it has

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Some of Thieves Utilities and traits are dysfunctional:

• Shadow Trap is a prime example. Anet clearly does not plan on fixing it despite it being brought up at least ten times a month. I am fairly certain it has not been used since the nerf and people figured out that it no longer worked properly.

It never worked ever since the beginning and the problem lies with the implementation of shadowstep.

What I don't understand is, what exactly is so good about Shadow Trap?

It's a 45s CD that grants 10 stacks of might. That's not very appealing. I can stack more than 10 might in 12s using Unload twice.It grants 5s of stealth, which is nice but why would you stay in stealth for 5s if your might stack only lasts for 10s?Stun break? That's a very expensive stun break compare to Bandit's Defense.

As it stands, Shadow Trap has no value.

Shadow Trap's effect is based on GW1's Scorpion Wire. When you hex your target and they tried to run away, you automatically shadowstep to them and knock them down. That skill has value because first of all it's not a trap, second it triggered in a short distance, and finally it actually does something to the target -- it knocks them down setting them up for a combo. Not to mention, it's only 10s cooldown. So in a sense, Shadow Trap is a poor imitation of GW1's Scorpion Wire.

I use shadow trap a lot in WvW at the moment, but I admit you have to run traps with trapper runes to get the most from them, which isn't a popular playstyle, and you have to be very careful where you place it if you want the long distance port. With the runes, it gives you 3s of stealth to set up your engage, while also providing a free port back out so you can save your shadowstep. You can use it to set up traps in choke points, you also use it while kiting to avoid packs of enemies on mounts pretty effectively. For 1v1, there are definitely better options, but for roaming it can still be pretty useful if you build into it.

Don't use it so anet can fix the unreliable nature it has

I don't think that's how anet chooses things to buff tbh