Who, or what, is Joko?

[Gern.2978]

Exactly what is Joko? His origins, where did he get his power? He's definitely unique. Not even Ziatan's Liches demonstrated Joko's ability to just pop back from the dead "like a demented jack-in-the-box," as Taimi put it. Yet, he seems to have been just a normal human at one time, as he does look just like any of his Awakened, and there's an ancient inscription in Southern Elona that you can read in Guild Wars 1 which mentions Joko and just calls him a "raider." It seems like at one point he discovered some great and very unique power.

Maybe given his choice of putting his capitol so near the mouth of torment is a clue? Maybe he somehow absorbed magic from the realm of torment? Maybe he somehow discovered the existence of Ziatan long before any human, and found a way to steal some part of it's power? But these explanations don't really fit, because neither Ziatan nor Abaddon ever demonstrated Joko's ability to resurrect themselves.

I just wish A-net would give us some clue.

[Randulf.7614]

Anet likely have no origin story for him, simply believing his mysterious past adds to his allure.

To be honest, there's a strong argument for being right there.

The fact is, no one in game could find out the truth anyway. Joko ensured his legend was enhanced by so much exaggeration and lies, we could never know if what we discovered was the reality anyway.

The question is, does knowing his background make him any more interesting than the mystery and speculation. I'm unconvinced.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

We know that Joko was human at some point and that he and King Oswald Thorn knew each other when they were alive. This means Joko was alive somewhere in the early 8th century AE.

When you completed a certain Halloween achievement, you got access to Thorn's Trophy Shelf and with it to Palawa Joko's diary. If the diary is correct, Joko studied necromancy under an unnamed teacher and his first murder was his fellow student.

What we don't know is how he became a lich. We know that Vizier Khilbron became a lich through Abaddon's magic. Maybe Joko has a connection to Abaddon?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Palawa Ignacious Joko is a ~600 year old narcessistic son of an Elonian diplomat who learned necromancy, and held both instructions on how to find a djinn that could grant any wish once per century, as well as scriptures of Abaddon in his youthful (pre-Turai) possession.

Which of those two objects, if either, was used to assume his lichdom is unclear.

He's definitely unique. Not even Ziatan's Liches demonstrated Joko's ability to just pop back from the dead "like a demented jack-in-the-box," as Taimi put it.

It's not that unique. Joko is not one-of-a-kind. Khilbron, The Hunter, and Fendi Nin were all capable of the exact same thing. Though Fendi Nin's capability was a bit weaker. Zoldark was also capable of this nigh-immortality, but utilized it on his minions rather than himself.

Mazdak was also supposedly unkillable through lichdom, and required magic opposite of Zhaitan's that corrupted him to fell him (thusly, Caladbolg).

Also: Zhaitan, not Ziatan.

there's an ancient inscription in Southern Elona that you can read in Guild Wars 1 which mentions Joko and just calls him a "raider."

Likely just describing how he used hit-and-run kidnapping tactics to build up his army both times.

[Tyson.5160]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Palawa Ignacious Joko is a ~600 year old narcessistic son of an Elonian diplomat who learned necromancy, and held both instructions on how to find a djinn that could grant any wish once per century, as well as scriptures of Abaddon in his youthful (pre-Turai) possession.

Which of those two objects, if either, was used to assume his lichdom is unclear.

He's definitely unique. Not even Ziatan's Liches demonstrated Joko's ability to just pop back from the dead "like a demented jack-in-the-box," as Taimi put it.

It's not that unique. Joko is not one-of-a-kind. Khilbron, The Hunter, and Fendi Nin were all capable of the exact same thing. Though Fendi Nin's capability was a bit weaker. Zoldark was also capable of this nigh-immortality, but utilized it on his minions rather than himself.

Mazdak was also supposedly unkillable through lichdom, and required magic opposite of Zhaitan's that corrupted him to fell him (thusly, Caladbolg).

Also: Zhaitan, not Ziatan.

there's an ancient inscription in Southern Elona that you can read in Guild Wars 1 which mentions Joko and just calls him a "raider."

Likely just describing how he used hit-and-run kidnapping tactics to build up his army both times.

I thought it would be kinda neat if Joko became immortal by that wish granting Djinn from Gw1 that gave out a wish every 100 years. Kind of a be careful what you wish for when being granted the wish of immortality and watch your body becoming mummified and undead.

[De Bourgogne.9642]

Everything Joko says is true, praise Joko!

[Jimbru.6014]

The wiki on Joko pretty much answers this entire thread. Go forth and read...

[Gern.2978]

@Jimbru.6014 said:The wiki on Joko pretty much answers this entire thread. Go forth and read...

No...it doesn't. It just says what we already know from the games. It even points out exactly what I'm musing about here: that we don't know how he got his power.

[Jimbru.6014]

Joko was certainly a self-promoting liar, but he was also highly capable on his own account. With that in mind, what more do we need to know, really?

We know Joko was the son of an Elonian diplomat, and a contemporary of Oswald Thorn in the 8th century. We know he began studying necromancy at a young age under an unknown master. That settles his time and place of origin. The early mentions of him as a "raider" were likely when he was just getting started building his place in the world.

Joko's background as the son of a diplomat also explains a great deal of his personal character. Especially how he was able to manipulate the Elonians into worshipping him, understanding the value of controlling his image and telling his version of history, and so forth. Classic totalitarian strategies which have worked all too many times in the real world.

We know Joko had at least two means by which he could have become a lich. Did he use one or the other? Why not use BOTH? He could have used Abbadon's writings to become a lich like Khilbron, then gained even more power from the djinn. Or vice versa. Ultimately it doesn't matter what he did, because the results are the same.

Then add in his long existence; one can learn an awful lot about evil power when you have 600 years to do it. Heck, he "only" created an entire unique school of necromancy, with the Awakened and Scourge magic. Once he reached his full mature state as a lich, he was arguably the most powerful necromancer in Tyria until his end.

So no great mystery then, about how Joko gained his power. He shrewdly used his available tools of power, conquered and manipulated entire nations to his advantage, and had a long time to develop his necromantic talents.

Like I said: given all that, what more really is there to know?

[Gern.2978]

@"Jimbru.6014" said:Joko was certainly a self-promoting liar, but he was also highly capable on his own account. With that in mind, what more do we need to know, really?

We know Joko was the son of an Elonian diplomat, and a contemporary of Oswald Thorn in the 8th century. We know he began studying necromancy at a young age under an unknown master. That settles his time and place of origin. The early mentions of him as a "raider" were likely when he was just getting started building his place in the world.

Joko's background as the son of a diplomat also explains a great deal of his personal character. Especially how he was able to manipulate the Elonians into worshipping him, understanding the value of controlling his image and telling his version of history, and so forth. Classic totalitarian strategies which have worked all too many times in the real world.

We know Joko had at least two means by which he could have become a lich. Did he use one or the other? Why not use BOTH? He could have used Abbadon's writings to become a lich like Khilbron, then gained even more power from the djinn. Or vice versa. Ultimately it doesn't matter what he did, because the results are the same.

Then add in his long existence; one can learn an awful lot about evil power when you have 600 years to do it. Heck, he "only" created an entire unique school of necromancy, with the Awakened and Scourge magic. Once he reached his full mature state as a lich, he was arguably the most powerful necromancer in Tyria until his end.

So no great mystery then, about how Joko gained his power. He shrewdly used his available tools of power, conquered and manipulated entire nations to his advantage, and had a long time to develop his necromantic talents.

Like I said: given all that, what more really is there to know?

There's plenty of mystery about how he got his power, especially since we know Joko was a liar who always knew more than he let on. We don't even know if the tiny inkling about him having access to Abandon's secret knowledge, or a wish granting Jinn, is true. And if he did have knowledge from Abandon, what was it? It was clearly not what made Kilbron a lich, because even Kilbron couldn't do what Joko could do. Kilbron could be, and was, killed by ordinary means. His life was only extended by holding a bunch of souls in his body like a soul battery, one by one was released whenever he was killed until he ran out and stayed dead.

Joko could not be killed by ordinary means, as was displayed when we, the commander, killed him. He just popped back without any trouble, no souls escaped. Turai Ossa knew this, and it's why he had to seal Joko under a mountain. The only way to actually kill joko was for his magic to be absorbed by a creature such as a dragon (Aurene.) No other lich ever displayed that kind of power.

Just because you're satisfied by the information we've been given thus far, doesn't mean there is no interesting mystery to Joko. Especially since that mystery now directly effects Aurene and her possibility of returning from death.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Jimbru.6014" said:We know Joko had at least two means by which he could have become a lich. Did he use one or the other? Why not use BOTH? He could have used Abbadon's writings to become a lich like Khilbron, then gained even more power from the djinn. Or vice versa. Ultimately it doesn't matter what he did, because the results are the same.

I would argue it does matter, whether it was one, the other, both, or neither. Establishing methods of becoming a lich limits or expands other theories. Like Aurene coming back because ate Joko's magic.

Does it matter in the context of Joko? Maybe. But does it matter in the context of the overarching lore? Definitely.

Then add in his long existence; one can learn an awful lot about evil power when you have 600 years to do it. Heck, he "only" created an entire unique school of necromancy, with the Awakened and Scourge magic. Once he reached his full mature state as a lich, he was arguably the most powerful necromancer in Tyria until his end.

So no great mystery then, about how Joko gained his power. He shrewdly used his available tools of power, conquered and manipulated entire nations to his advantage, and had a long time to develop his necromantic talents.

Nothing you said really answered "how Joko gained his power", it only answered "what Joko did with his power".

@Gern.2978 said:Joko could not be killed by ordinary means, as was displayed when we, the commander, killed him. He just popped back without any trouble, no souls escaped. Turai Ossa knew this, and it's why he had to seal Joko under a mountain. The only way to actually kill joko was for his magic to be absorbed by a creature such as a dragon (Aurene.) No other lich ever displayed that kind of power.

Sure, no other lich. Except Khilbron and The Hunter. Though in Khilbron's case, the magic was unbound not by a dragon, but by a Bloodstone; and The Hunter's magic was never unbound, it should still be out there prowling the Realm of Torment.

[Fenom.9457]

Well, you see, our great king Joko killed two elder dragons recently, and that rogue god that was attacking Elona. He also created us, gave us magic, created Tyria, and leads us to this day.