Mirage - This isn't normal.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:Btw, if any want to duel on EU, I'm open to that, really want to improve.

Same here for those on NA (DPS Mirage)

Shame you don't play on EU, I normally do good vs power mesmer but still want to improve on that.

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:Btw, if any want to duel on EU, I'm open to that, really want to improve.

Same here for those on NA (DPS Mirage)

I fought papasmurf on necro. Good guy and good player with an insane off meta power build

So...who won?

He won most of the duels. I think I won only twice.

Any Necro wins in the current meta means the Necro was the better player.You won!

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:Btw, if any want to duel on EU, I'm open to that, really want to improve.

Same here for those on NA (DPS Mirage)

Shame you don't play on EU, I normally do good vs power mesmer but still want to improve on that.

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:Btw, if any want to duel on EU, I'm open to that, really want to improve.

Same here for those on NA (DPS Mirage)

I fought papasmurf on necro. Good guy and good player with an insane off meta power build

So...who won?

He won most of the duels. I think I won only twice.

If this is who I think it is "Reaper", you won either 2 or 3 times, however you put up a heck of a fight on the ones I did win. I clutched at least 2.

That said, im always down for a duel as long as you don't play ghost DE lol :)

Yep this is the reaper :D I always try to remember the good players.

I also have fun dueling kiritsugu, who I always happen to run into randomly in WVW without realizing it’s him

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:Btw, if any want to duel on EU, I'm open to that, really want to improve.

Same here for those on NA (DPS Mirage)

Shame you don't play on EU, I normally do good vs power mesmer but still want to improve on that.

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:Btw, if any want to duel on EU, I'm open to that, really want to improve.

Same here for those on NA (DPS Mirage)

I fought papasmurf on necro. Good guy and good player with an insane off meta power build

So...who won?

He won most of the duels. I think I won only twice.

If this is who I think it is "Reaper", you won either 2 or 3 times, however you put up a heck of a fight on the ones I did win. I clutched at least 2.

That said, im always down for a duel as long as you don't play ghost DE lol :)

Yep this is the reaper :D I always try to remember the good players.

I also have fun dueling kiritsugu, who I always happen to run into randomly in WVW without realizing it’s him

So...who won?

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:Btw, if any want to duel on EU, I'm open to that, really want to improve.

Same here for those on NA (DPS Mirage)

Shame you don't play on EU, I normally do good vs power mesmer but still want to improve on that.

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:Btw, if any want to duel on EU, I'm open to that, really want to improve.

Same here for those on NA (DPS Mirage)

I fought papasmurf on necro. Good guy and good player with an insane off meta power build

So...who won?

He won most of the duels. I think I won only twice.

If this is who I think it is "Reaper", you won either 2 or 3 times, however you put up a heck of a fight on the ones I did win. I clutched at least 2.

That said, im always down for a duel as long as you don't play ghost DE lol :)

Yep this is the reaper :D I always try to remember the good players.

I also have fun dueling kiritsugu, who I always happen to run into randomly in WVW without realizing it’s him

d'awwwww I don't think im that good, but I appreciate the compliment :)

[KrHome.1920]

WvW itself is a toxic gamemode because it's not balanced.

Solo and smallscale roaming is destroyed by balancing incompetence.

• deadeye, mirage, soulbeast - not fixed for months now, two of them even got reworks which changed nothing
• 8s double endure pain, still broken regarding the amount of damage you can deal on PvE gear
• revenant staff5, still broken regarding the amount of damage you can deal on PvE gear
• and so on... of course this will pull idiots into the game, who can exploit these issues to showcase mental illnesses (the desire to feel superior, even if it is pointless for a nomal thinking person, because it is a result of exploiting poor balancing)

Zerging is destroyed by matchmaking incompetence. E.g. Kodash is labeld as a "full" server, but still the perfect server for pip farming as we have the outnumbered buff for 19 hours/day (from 11pm till 6pm).

[Burnfall.9573]

Mesmer is not the problem

Bad design, Power Creep, Broken mechanics, Broken Builds with having unlimited impunity to them-to spam them with having unlimited freedom to abuse them without punishment/consequence are the problem

' The abuse of power consists in the freedom, the purity and the frequency to exercise it without repercussion '

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:Btw, if any want to duel on EU, I'm open to that, really want to improve.

Same here for those on NA (DPS Mirage)

Shame you don't play on EU, I normally do good vs power mesmer but still want to improve on that.

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:Btw, if any want to duel on EU, I'm open to that, really want to improve.

Same here for those on NA (DPS Mirage)

I fought papasmurf on necro. Good guy and good player with an insane off meta power build

So...who won?

He won most of the duels. I think I won only twice.

If this is who I think it is "Reaper", you won either 2 or 3 times, however you put up a heck of a fight on the ones I did win. I clutched at least 2.

That said, im always down for a duel as long as you don't play ghost DE lol :)

Yep this is the reaper :D I always try to remember the good players.

I also have fun dueling kiritsugu, who I always happen to run into randomly in WVW without realizing it’s him

So...who won?

Between me and Kiri? Idk we’ve fought so many times...

When he played warrior, he won 2 of the 3. These duels were so long (like 5+ minutes) and every moment was intense, so I’m just glad that the fights were good

On ranger he’s basically god. I don’t remember the times I’ve fought him on ranger in WVW. In Spvp we had 4 duels, and he won 3 of the 4. These duels were pretty short. My reaper in spvp is also not as good build wise as my WVW variant so I wasn’t really expecting to win these

On thief I’m pretty sure I won most of them. He’s an extraordinary player. It I think he doesn’t play thief much so that’s probably why.

Other times we’ve clashed was in small scale and those were very fun and we have our back and forths

As a reaper I think we were pretty much matched evenly in terms of how our duels go down. However he’s much much better than me, I know that for a fact.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@apharma.3741 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:

@apharma.3741 said:It's probably the same people who main whatever is stupidly strong in WvW at the time and think they're GWAMM when really they're PLEB. Most used to play thief but I've seen most of them play other things now you can faceroll across the keyboard and not be punished on classes like holo, soulbeast and condi mirage.

I can say you can be punished on holo, he have some long animations that can be interrupted and you can see a difference between a good and bad holosmith.Soulbeast is worse and condi mirage even worse but you have to deal with them I guess.

Soulbeast is the best roamer/1v1 in the game right now, mirage most definitely isn't worse, an argument can be made for them being as dumb as each other though. Soulbeast you can't actually kill at all while it pumps out damage but you can sort of deal with it. Mirage you can kill but it's hard to deal with the amount of damage coming out and hard to avoid the conditions.

Holo a bad one can be punished but it's almost unbeatable when played at a competent level because of how much damage it puts out unless playing condi. Even then it chews through TB stats like it's made of paper. You can still have 100% quickness uptime in WvW as holo without sacrificing anything but a sigil slot, add in some toughness and you can be insanely tanky while dishing out more damage than most classes.

So many of the elites from PoF feel like easy mode to play against/as.

[eletrikid.1268]

To the people saying is another QQ and mirage op thread, no it's not, is about people playing mirage being super salty, I'm not a addressing the character itself.And at least, from the negativity the post was addressing, people are getting along, even discussing their experiences, I'm happy. :)

[eletrikid.1268]

On another hand, I have to agree in part with the soulbeast being second in saltiness.Just today I encountered 3 soulbeasts who jumped on my corpse while me being outnumbered, the first was because I was one annoying thief trying to split them up, second blocked me without reason, just blocked and third was on my staff thief try, he raged cause I already killed him and couldn't pew pew through my evade frames so he sticked with blobs everytime I encountered him, was overrun once and he jumped on me. Fun times some people would say.

[eletrikid.1268]

@"KrHome.1920" said:WvW itself is a toxic gamemode because it's not balanced.

Solo and smallscale roaming is destroyed by balancing incompetence.

• deadeye, mirage, soulbeast - not fixed for months now, two of them even got reworks which changed nothing
• 8s double endure pain, still broken regarding the amount of damage you can deal on PvE gear
• revenant staff5, still broken regarding the amount of damage you can deal on PvE gear
• and so on... of course this will pull idiots into the game, who can exploit these issues to showcase mental illnesses (the desire to feel superior, even if it is pointless for a nomal thinking person, because it is a result of exploiting poor balancing)

Zerging is destroyed by matchmaking incompetence. E.g. Kodash is labeld as a "full" server, but still the perfect server for pip farming as we have the outnumbered buff for 19 hours/day (from 11pm till 6pm).

Yeah, zerging is a part of gameplay, in my case, went last week vs baruch Bay and was fun, between people always in parties and zerging/blob all of that with a support class + dps and mirage/scourge for condis, couldn't get much of a roaming duels or were too far between.

[bq pd.2148]

@eletrikid.1268 said:On another hand, I have to agree in part with the soulbeast being second in saltiness.Just today I encountered 3 soulbeasts who jumped on my corpse while me being outnumbered.

deadeye is nr1. always jumps on opponents body, but you cannot see it as they are stealthed!

[eletrikid.1268]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"eletrikid.1268" said:On another hand, I have to agree in part with the soulbeast being second in saltiness.Just today I encountered 3 soulbeasts who jumped on my corpse while me being outnumbered.

deadeye is nr1. always jumps on opponents body, but you cannot see it as they are stealthed!

"The unseen BM is the deadliest."Ops, wrong game. xD

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:Btw, if any want to duel on EU, I'm open to that, really want to improve.

Same here for those on NA (DPS Mirage)

Shame you don't play on EU, I normally do good vs power mesmer but still want to improve on that.

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:Btw, if any want to duel on EU, I'm open to that, really want to improve.

Same here for those on NA (DPS Mirage)

I fought papasmurf on necro. Good guy and good player with an insane off meta power build

So...who won?

He won most of the duels. I think I won only twice.

If this is who I think it is "Reaper", you won either 2 or 3 times, however you put up a heck of a fight on the ones I did win. I clutched at least 2.

That said, im always down for a duel as long as you don't play ghost DE lol :)

Yep this is the reaper :D I always try to remember the good players.

I also have fun dueling kiritsugu, who I always happen to run into randomly in WVW without realizing it’s him

So...who won?

Between me and Kiri? Idk we’ve fought so many times...

When he played warrior, he won 2 of the 3. These duels were so long (like 5+ minutes) and every moment was intense, so I’m just glad that the fights were good

On ranger he’s basically god. I don’t remember the times I’ve fought him on ranger in WVW. In Spvp we had 4 duels, and he won 3 of the 4. These duels were pretty short. My reaper in spvp is also not as good build wise as my WVW variant so I wasn’t really expecting to win these

On thief I’m pretty sure I won most of them. He’s an extraordinary player. It I think he doesn’t play thief much so that’s probably why.

Other times we’ve clashed was in small scale and those were very fun and we have our back and forths

As a reaper I think we were pretty much matched evenly in terms of how our duels go down. However he’s much much better than me, I know that for a fact.

I caught that part where you said you won once against his ranger as a necro and that is all I needed to see.You are the better player!And if kiritsugu is god...but you are the better player...I see what you did there ;)

[DeadlySynz.3471]

I think it's the types of people it draws.

Mirage is flat out useless in WvW compared to chronomancer. So if a player has taken a Mirage into WvW, they aren't there to offer any type of support, they are likely there to grief other players.

[OriOri.8724]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:

@apharma.3741 said:It's probably the same people who main whatever is stupidly strong in WvW at the time and think they're GWAMM when really they're PLEB. Most used to play thief but I've seen most of them play other things now you can faceroll across the keyboard and not be punished on classes like holo, soulbeast and condi mirage.

I can say you can be punished on holo, he have some long animations that can be interrupted and you can see a difference between a good and bad holosmith.Soulbeast is worse and condi mirage even worse but you have to deal with them I guess.

Soulbeast is the best roamer/1v1 in the game right now, mirage most definitely isn't worse, an argument can be made for them being as dumb as each other though. Soulbeast you can't actually kill at all while it pumps out damage but you can sort of deal with it. Mirage you can kill but it's hard to deal with the amount of damage coming out and hard to avoid the conditions.

Holo a bad one can be punished but it's almost unbeatable when played at a competent level because of how much damage it puts out unless playing condi. Even then it chews through TB stats like it's made of paper. You can still have 100% quickness uptime in WvW as holo without sacrificing anything but a sigil slot, add in some toughness and you can be insanely tanky while dishing out more damage than most classes.

So many of the elites from PoF feel like easy mode to play against/as.

What else would you expect? You saw what the HoT specs were like, and following the same philosophy that made them so broken, the PoF specs had to be even more ridiculous.

Massively dialing back the amount of boons and condis that are farted out by every single skill and trait in this game would do so much to balance it, purely because you would have to do something to get boons, and plan it out instead of just mashing buttons. That's how it should be. But Anet balance team keeps sprinting in the opposite direction and hasn't even looked back over their shoulder.

[Dawdler.8521]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:I think it's the types of people it draws.

Mirage is flat out useless in WvW compared to chronomancer. So if a player has taken a Mirage into WvW, they aren't there to offer any type of support, they are likely there to grief other players.What you just said is also the eqvivalent of saying that firebrand is useless in WvW because of the types of people it draws.

Agreed?

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I'm all for toning down the condi app on mirage but then I read something like this

@eletrikid.1268 said:cleaning 8+ conditions everytime

and I ask myself Am I really doing the right option here?

Also find it funny that you asked him for a duel with a different profession lul.

[apharma.3741]

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:

@apharma.3741 said:It's probably the same people who main whatever is stupidly strong in WvW at the time and think they're GWAMM when really they're PLEB. Most used to play thief but I've seen most of them play other things now you can faceroll across the keyboard and not be punished on classes like holo, soulbeast and condi mirage.

I can say you can be punished on holo, he have some long animations that can be interrupted and you can see a difference between a good and bad holosmith.Soulbeast is worse and condi mirage even worse but you have to deal with them I guess.

Soulbeast is the best roamer/1v1 in the game right now, mirage most definitely isn't worse, an argument can be made for them being as dumb as each other though. Soulbeast you can't actually kill at all while it pumps out damage but you can sort of deal with it. Mirage you can kill but it's hard to deal with the amount of damage coming out and hard to avoid the conditions.

Holo a bad one can be punished but it's almost unbeatable when played at a competent level because of how much damage it puts out unless playing condi. Even then it chews through TB stats like it's made of paper. You can still have 100% quickness uptime in WvW as holo without sacrificing anything but a sigil slot, add in some toughness and you can be insanely tanky while dishing out more damage than most classes.

So many of the elites from PoF feel like easy mode to play against/as.

What else would you expect? You saw what the HoT specs were like, and following the same philosophy that made them so broken, the PoF specs had to be even more ridiculous.

Massively dialing back the amount of boons and condis that are farted out by every single skill and trait in this game would do so much to balance it, purely because you would have to do something to get boons, and plan it out instead of just mashing buttons. That's how it should be. But Anet balance team keeps sprinting in the opposite direction and hasn't even looked back over their shoulder.

I think one thing that would help bring order to the mess ANet has created is creating a baseline. So for example in core your weapon skills would look like this in cool downs:

Auto, 8s, 10s, 15s, 20s and greatsword on warrior is a great example of a weapon that's not seen cool down reductions at all though it's cool downs have always been a tad lower than the norm, there's still this mantra of each skill increases in cool down by about 5s.

So establishing a more strict cool down system and applying it to the expansion weapons would help especially if you then create rules on how much a skill can do for it's cool down while also establishing a guideline on how much damage a skill can do for it's cool down/number of abilities/cast.

[OriOri.8724]

@"apharma.3741" I mostly agree, but I don't think its enough. Just due to general powercreep over the past few years, to bring this back to where it should be for good balance and design, ANet would have to touch ~95% of the skills and traits in the game, instead of just making guidelines to follow for skills. But you did touch a major point, there need to be guidelines on how much a skill/trait can do given its CD, and there also needs to be guidelines on how much can be stacked onto a skill/mechanic through traits. I mean, shatters are probably the worst offender here, followed by steal and burst skills I think, in that you can trait them to do like 3x the amount of things they do baseline. That needs to be toned down.

But the biggest "single" change they could make is just toning down what a lot of skills and a few traits do. Damage, movement, block, evade, heal, every boon, every condi, every condi cleansed are all different things, and really no skill should be doing more than 3, 4 of those max, (and that is counting individual boons/condis applied) with the majority of skills doing ~2 of those. There can of course be exceptions, but they need to be the exception, not the rule, and they need to be on decently high CDs.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:I know the Mirage is overtuned by a lot of aspects but is it normal that Mirage players are the saltiest people I ever encountered?

No it's completely normal and can be replicated in most other MMOs with PvP. The easiest 1v1 class to play always attracts scrubs who mistake the class carry for their own skill. These players tend to get easily salty, because they subconsciously know that they are actually pretty bad and can't win with anything else.Exactly, no one ever gets salty because they consciously picked a class they dont have the skills to win with. That's why the forums are only filled with mesmer mains complaining about other classes being OP while no one posts about mesmers being OP. Especially not thieves.

[Nepster.4275]

The thing that you met with 2 salty players does not mean that there is any problem with the class...I agree, Mirage needs a nerf but in a way it still stays playable and not like most of the QQ guys by deleting it.Mesmer forums could be renamed to "Ask for nerf". Because if i go to any other subforum i dont see people complaining for perma stealth one shot deadeye, boonbeast, the niche hammer guardian or anything else there are 2 answers for this, one is that its normal to get one shot from 1.5k range from stealth and its normal to be the best duelist in the game OR maybe people just dont care about other classes being OP too because "Deadeye is OP? Nah, we can always ask for mirage nerfs"And now honestly, i feel sorry for you that 2 kids killed you and that they BMed because they were playing a "broken" class. But can people stop posting this all the time, i think if any dev comes here, will have a great understanding that its OP but what is missing is actually EXPLAINING how its OP and how it could be tuned down. I understand that people need a place to tell their bad experience with/against a class, but atleast give some ideas that in what aspect it should be toned down, because saying that "Its OP.Nerf! " will not help.

[bq pd.2148]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@eletrikid.1268 said:I know the Mirage is overtuned by a lot of aspects but is it normal that Mirage players are the saltiest people I ever encountered?

No it's completely normal and can be replicated in most other MMOs with PvP. The easiest 1v1 class to play always attracts scrubs who mistake the class carry for their own skill. These players tend to get easily salty, because they subconsciously know that they are actually pretty bad and can't win with anything else.

the scrub doesnt need to win with 'anything else', the scrub does win so why change it or bother with 'what if i was playing X?' questions. on the other side the 'pro' refusing to play the 'carry' build keeps losing to the scrub for knowingly refusing better options. losing is a much better reason to get salty. i can assure you that you will get more salt from your opponents if you do play one of the carry builds then the other way round.the guy you kill while passing by without putting a thought to the fight is often not worth the salt.so with carry build you only get salty from too outnumbered or other carry builds, the selfproclaimed pros that do refuse half of the games skills and traits, do not even matter in your game as you dont notice them among the occaisonal daily guys you kill. now being too outnumbered or other carry build also do make those refusing better options salty, so i dont see how the scrub is being more salty.

[eletrikid.1268]

@"Nepster.4275" said:The thing that you met with 2 salty players does not mean that there is any problem with the class...I agree, Mirage needs a nerf but in a way it still stays playable and not like most of the QQ guys by deleting it.Mesmer forums could be renamed to "Ask for nerf". Because if i go to any other subforum i dont see people complaining for perma stealth one shot deadeye, boonbeast, the niche hammer guardian or anything else there are 2 answers for this, one is that its normal to get one shot from 1.5k range from stealth and its normal to be the best duelist in the game OR maybe people just dont care about other classes being OP too because "Deadeye is OP? Nah, we can always ask for mirage nerfs"And now honestly, i feel sorry for you that 2 kids killed you and that they BMed because they were playing a "broken" class. But can people stop posting this all the time, i think if any dev comes here, will have a great understanding that its OP but what is missing is actually EXPLAINING how its OP and how it could be tuned down. I understand that people need a place to tell their bad experience with/against a class, but atleast give some ideas that in what aspect it should be toned down, because saying that "Its OP.Nerf! " will not help.

Oh I agree deadeye is beyond ridiculous, it should be toned down by a lot and same goes for boon beast, there's nothing vs that.The only thing I think should be toned down on condi mirage is the ability for clones to spam conditions, just so is engaging in terms of dodging condi burst and not being spammed by condis cause you approached a mirage with some clones. You dodged the shatter condi, gj and reward yourself with a couple seconds with little condi pressure, not you dodged it and there's new clones aplying condi pressure just by aa.Anyway, not a nerf mirage post, like I said, is about the people playing it.

[eletrikid.1268]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I'm all for toning down the condi app on mirage but then I read something like this

@eletrikid.1268 said:cleaning 8+ conditions everytime

and I ask myself Am I really doing the right option here?

Also find it funny that you asked him for a duel with a different profession lul.

You don't need to ask for a nerf, there's a miriad of posts that do that.And yeah, I did that cause he could be good for all that I know, I could see that on another class or a power mesmer/mirage but not on the condi mesmer. If he is good, great, more training for me.