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Where does the commander get their power from?


Tomahawk.7361

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I think of the main character as a genius of his/her class, something like Kishou Arima if you know Tokyo Ghoul, or even Shiro Tagachi from GW1, real legends capable of incredible feats, but in the recent fight with balth, it was proven that wasn't enough, It took our skills, a powered up Sohothin and Aurene's magic to really beat balth (make no mistake, without aurene we would had been killed again by balth, so even if we are legends among heroes, we're still pretty much mortals, and we can't win most fights alone specially those involving gods or dragons).

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@maddoctor.2738 said:In the first battle with Balthazar, the commander is saved by VlastIn the second fight with Balthazar, the commander dies, because they have no help from anyoneIn the battle with the War Beast the commander has help from the elder dragon Kralkatorrik, plus they use SohothinIn the final fight with Balthazar the commander has help from Aurene, plus the sword Sohothin

Pfzz.. just because the mechanics rip away your controls. If the game would've let me, this babbling barbecue-station would be dead in the first encounter.

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I look at it from the point that the commander was originally instrumental in the downfall of Zhaitan. Since then all the powers that be have come to rely on him/her to take care of the big stuff. I can also see from the commander's view that everyone is expecting the impossible from him/her and he/she is trying to live up to that and, miraculously, succeeding.

The commander is supposed to be the hero and therefore continues to be burdened with the self-imposed need to meet the expectations of everyone to "fix" what is wrong.

Short Answer: AnetShort but less smartkitten answer: Power is derived from being the hero of the story.

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@kamykaze.5904 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:In the first battle with Balthazar, the commander is saved by VlastIn the second fight with Balthazar, the commander dies, because they have no help from anyoneIn the battle with the War Beast the commander has help from the elder dragon Kralkatorrik, plus they use SohothinIn the final fight with Balthazar the commander has help from Aurene, plus the sword Sohothin

Pfzz.. just because the mechanics rip away your controls. If the game would've let me, this babbling barbecue-station would be dead in the first encounter.

Funnily enough, when I played that first encounter with a couple of my friends, we did just that. One of my friends was on Reaper and in Shroud when the auto-down happened, so she was just kicked out of Shroud. The cinematic didn't play because the instance owner hadn't gone down yet, so we ressed up and just killed Balthazar and saved Vlast.

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@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@kamykaze.5904 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:In the first battle with Balthazar, the commander is saved by VlastIn the second fight with Balthazar, the commander dies, because they have no help from anyoneIn the battle with the War Beast the commander has help from the elder dragon Kralkatorrik, plus they use SohothinIn the final fight with Balthazar the commander has help from Aurene, plus the sword Sohothin

Pfzz.. just because the mechanics rip away your controls. If the game would've let me, this babbling barbecue-station would be dead in the first encounter.

Funnily enough, when I played that first encounter with a couple of my friends, we did just that. One of my friends was on Reaper and in Shroud when the auto-down happened, so she was just kicked out of Shroud. The cinematic didn't play because the instance owner hadn't gone down yet, so we ressed up and just killed Balthazar and saved Vlast.

That's funny, but unfortunately probably a bug and the story wouldn't continue. So, you're forced into this "here fight this god for a couple of minutes and then we just strip away your controls and show you how powerful he is." It's bad design to just daze your character i think. If they want you to feel he's really powerful, they shoul've made this fight unbeatable.This way you would sit there and think "what the flip, that's impossible", but then come back later with help and such, to defeat this big mouth.The way it is now is more an annoyance.

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This is very simple answered:

Our Characters gain more power over the course of time from alot of various sources.

  • Level 1-80 is natural Character progression, becoming stronger and more experienced over the course of time
  • While we traveled over Tyria, we collected basicalyl everywhere from sources of power their magical energies by attuning to these locations, gaining this way powers from those locations, artefacts, and the like
  • We become more powerful through the ascended magical improved gear we wear, which is inbued with powerful magical runes and sigils that we gained, or crafted over the course of our journey, to the point that we use even legendary magical equipment.
  • We defeated two elder dragons and surely absorbed also parts of their magic partially, and elde dragons already rival in power with the powers of the Tyrian Gods
  • We share powers and technologies with all the races from Tyria, which makes us stronger, than any race from Tyria could be by itself alone. The defeat of zhaitan was pure proof, that alone this was enough to become for at least him an equal enemy (despite me finding the whole battle cheap to the point, it shoudl have been completely redesigned to make the battle more epic, but the poitn stands - anet wanted us, that shared powers and technologies can become equal to the powers of Zhaitan, that working together is the key to the problem)
  • We are linked to the powers of Aurene, we have basically with her at our side Dragon Magic with us.
  • As a human you are basically blessed with the powers of one chosen god from your birth on already, Sylvarie are already blesssed/cursed with the powers of Mordremoth basically as his lost Minions, Norns have the powers of the wild spirits and their shapeshifting abilities to become even stronger lorewise, Charr have their warbands and superior war technology and Asuras even top them in regard of magical technology and wisdom over magic in general with their high intelligence of their colleges that represent their understanding about the Eternal Alchemy, which understands no race better, than them, so each race has its unique strengths they can put into the battle
  • We got help also of mighty allies when we needed it, for example the Druids, protecting us in LS3 from massive heat, so that we could follow Balthazar
  • Plus Balthazar has also been massively weakened, sure, he regained some o his powers back, but he surely isn#t anymore as much as powerful, as before the five other gods stripped his powers and put him into prison in the mists, basicalyl liek they did with Abaddon 250 years together, and there they did it to him as 6th.To regain basically his full powers, I'm sure, Balthazar would have must absorbed completely all the Powers of Primordus as the Elder Dragon of Fire representing his divine powers surely would have brought him back to full powers, but we stopped him, before he could kill Primordus and absorb his powers, which is why he fled in the first place to Elona to try it next with Kralkatorrik to regain his powers. Before Balthazar fled from the Mists, woudl have Rytlock known, whos before him, he was in such a weak state, that Rytlock surely easily could have killed him, but he didnt realize, that this old and weak lookign man is the god of war from the humans and Balthazar just abused the situation by being nice to him and reigniting Sohothin with its low fire powers he had left, that he would free him out of thankfulness
  • Our Characters also ascended, like the Heroes from GW1 ascended, thus being through this ritual of might basically not anymore mere mortals, which is why we are even able to travel into and through the Mists at all, which is why we were even able at all to go to Kormir and have a meeting with her in the mists, an unascended being wouldn't have been able to meet with Kormir... and now in PoF we actually returned to the place where heroes ascend in Augury Rock.

So, looking at all this, we have had within the last five years more than enough of sources and methods, to become more powerful, by obtaining and absorbing large amounts of magical powers, to hone our physical, mental and spritual abilities as well, gathering allies to share with them powers and technologies as liek also again magical abities, that helped us out in various situations .Its not unlogical anymore for a fantasy MMORPG like GW2 with this story, that we have become now after all this time such powerful ascended beings,that we test now our waters and battle even a rogue god, if we have to do so -and Balthazar wants it, he forces us, as he gives us no other choice, than to battle him, if we want to stop him from harming Tyria, so we kind of have to put in everything we got against him and even with that power level we have, we were already in the first encounter no match for him and survived only due to the help of Vlast, at the cost of his life therefore to the point that we still even are at the next encounter not still powerful enough for the weakened Balthazar - we need the help of Kralkatorrik/Aurene (a source of Dragon Magic first more, to become equal with him, which is basically the power that Balthazar wants to claim all th time to become again as powerful like he was before of his emprisoning in the mists and the other gods don't want to help us, because they fear for a war between gods and directly tell us through Kormir, likle a mother would tell to its child - that we have to grow up and strogn enough, to stand on our own legs, that this is a problem, we have to solve self, cause we basically created with our actions of slaying two elder dragons the problem, causing the magical imbalance of Tyria, now we have to be also responsible for solving the self created problem and its roots.

The other 5 Gods in form of Kormir, the Goddess of Truth basically gave us a lesson and our characters, the commander is it, who accepts it first, as the role of the Champion of Aurene, whose role it is to protect her with your life, so that Aurene can fulfill her destiny as. the legacy of her mother Glint to end the Flameseeker Prophecies.Kormir tells us at the meeting ,why the Gods were away for so long time, because they thought, if they would intervene, that this could provoke a war between the gods for power, and battlign the elder dragosn which also already rival the powers of the gods at the same tiem would be too much of a risk for them as well, so they decided together to leave Tyria and watch us from their safe realms, how things would just run, as the awakening of the elder dragons is seen also as a natural cycle of magical balance for Tyria, as they awake, when they are hungry and have to clean tyria from too much magic, and go into sleep, when they are satiated and have eaten enough magic energy to ensure, that the magic stays balanced in Tyria and doesn't overflow, which woudl be bad for tyria as well as like when theres either too less magic in th world, or if magic would be unbalanced and flow uncontroled through Tyria, if there would be no elder dragons at all.

The Flameseeker - I always wondered who or what this could be. After PoF I must say, that I now know, who or what is meant with the Flameseeker.Balthazar is it, who is meant with being the Flameseeker. The prophecy of Glint was always from begin on about the fact, that we woudl have one day to fight against Balthazar and stop him, but so far into the future couldn't go Glints Vision.He as the divine representative of flames and fire as the God of War and Fire, is it who seeks to become the only God of all in Tyria, thus the "Flameseeker Prophecies"

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@kamykaze.5904 said:

@kamykaze.5904 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:In the first battle with Balthazar, the commander is saved by VlastIn the second fight with Balthazar, the commander dies, because they have no help from anyoneIn the battle with the War Beast the commander has help from the elder dragon Kralkatorrik, plus they use SohothinIn the final fight with Balthazar the commander has help from Aurene, plus the sword Sohothin

Pfzz.. just because the mechanics rip away your controls. If the game would've let me, this babbling barbecue-station would be dead in the first encounter.

Funnily enough, when I played that first encounter with a couple of my friends, we did just that. One of my friends was on Reaper and in Shroud when the auto-down happened, so she was just kicked out of Shroud. The cinematic didn't play because the instance owner hadn't gone down yet, so we ressed up and just killed Balthazar and saved Vlast.

That's funny, but unfortunately probably a bug and the story wouldn't continue. So, you're forced into this "here fight this
god
for a couple of minutes and then we just strip away your controls and show you how
powerful
he is." It's bad design to just daze your character i think. If they want you to feel he's really powerful, they shoul've made this fight unbeatable.This way you would sit there and think "what the flip, that's impossible", but then come back later with help and such, to defeat this big mouth.The way it is now is more an annoyance.

If the first fight were to be unbeatable, how would you make him beatable in the final fight without making you feel that it was forced somehow?

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@kamykaze.5904 said:

@kamykaze.5904 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:In the first battle with Balthazar, the commander is saved by VlastIn the second fight with Balthazar, the commander dies, because they have no help from anyoneIn the battle with the War Beast the commander has help from the elder dragon Kralkatorrik, plus they use SohothinIn the final fight with Balthazar the commander has help from Aurene, plus the sword Sohothin

Pfzz.. just because the mechanics rip away your controls. If the game would've let me, this babbling barbecue-station would be dead in the first encounter.

Funnily enough, when I played that first encounter with a couple of my friends, we did just that. One of my friends was on Reaper and in Shroud when the auto-down happened, so she was just kicked out of Shroud. The cinematic didn't play because the instance owner hadn't gone down yet, so we ressed up and just killed Balthazar and saved Vlast.

That's funny, but unfortunately probably a bug and the story wouldn't continue. So, you're forced into this "here fight this
god
for a couple of minutes and then we just strip away your controls and show you how
powerful
he is." It's bad design to just daze your character i think. If they want you to feel he's really powerful, they shoul've made this fight unbeatable.This way you would sit there and think "what the flip, that's impossible", but then come back later with help and such, to defeat this big mouth.The way it is now is more an annoyance.

The second fight is exactly like that.

In my case, we did find a bug to the bug that allowed us to progress the story anyway. Getting downed again fixed the issue.

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First thing first. Balthazar is not the god of war when we fought him -- he's just a powerful Fire Elementalist with a gigantic sword. According to Kormir, there is a new god of war. So without the power of the god of war, Balthazar is trying to regain these lost powers by absorbing the Elder Dragons.

Second, Zhaitan is not a fighter, if he is, he's a very weak one. Zhaitan is nothing but a Zombie master, very weak and only powerful through the numbers of his minions.

We didn't kill Mordremoth until we stabbed Trahearne with Caladbolg. Mordremoth was about to come back using Trahearne and only the power of Caladbolg can effectively kill Mordy.

Then when it comes with Primordus, we were planning to use a machine that Balthazar stole. So yes, the commander is not an all-powerful being.

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Mordremoth was also not a 1 v 1 thing. The mental and physical aspect battles had to happen roughly the same time for him to be slain. Physical being the most epic Meta event - Dragonstand.Even in answering the questions of the academy of Vabbi, you tell those students Mordremoth died impaling himself on a spike, which happens after you defeat the Mouth of Mordremoth in Dragonstand.

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@Tomahawk.7361 said:possible spoilers

Where does the commander get their power from? Heroic deeds, peaked strength, and even plausible magical energies can go into making this character strong, but taking on elder dragons and gods now? Zhaitan, you had a mass airship armada, and mordremoth you cheated a physical fight by entering the dragon's mind. This time around in PoF you accomplish some fairly unimaginable feats, even for this fantasy realm. Is there any lore or explanation for how the commander is able to become this beast of power that can overthrow a god whilst fighing an elder dragon? It would help my suspension of disbelief if there was at least something.

For Zhaitan and Mordremoth you answer your own questions (except for Zhaitan it had more to do with the particular type of cannon than having airships, which in turn had to do with the orb at fort trinity if memory serves, its been too long).

As for why the commander was able to kill Balthazar, we are mindmelded with a dragon pup that is supposed to replace an elder dragon some day and wielding a relic of Orr (Rytlocks sword is plenty special), what is one god stripped of his power against that. Note that unlike when we had our chat with Kormir, standing in front of Balthazar did never blind us, ergo he never was a god at the point when we met him.

Regarding Kralkatorriks involvement, he had just been given a spanking by Balthazar using Aurene (the story clearly establishes that Kralkatorrik is his own biggest weakness, and Aurene being Glints off-spring makes that true when it comes to Aurene, which is why Balthazar chose to use Aurene to begin with). Of course after Balthazar dies, Kralkatorrik gets charged right back up again, but during the fight he is pretty weakened.

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@Pax.3548 said:

@kamykaze.5904 said:

@kamykaze.5904 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:In the first battle with Balthazar, the commander is saved by VlastIn the second fight with Balthazar, the commander dies, because they have no help from anyoneIn the battle with the War Beast the commander has help from the elder dragon Kralkatorrik, plus they use SohothinIn the final fight with Balthazar the commander has help from Aurene, plus the sword Sohothin

Pfzz.. just because the mechanics rip away your controls. If the game would've let me, this babbling barbecue-station would be dead in the first encounter.

Funnily enough, when I played that first encounter with a couple of my friends, we did just that. One of my friends was on Reaper and in Shroud when the auto-down happened, so she was just kicked out of Shroud. The cinematic didn't play because the instance owner hadn't gone down yet, so we ressed up and just killed Balthazar and saved Vlast.

That's funny, but unfortunately probably a bug and the story wouldn't continue. So, you're forced into this "here fight this
god
for a couple of minutes and then we just strip away your controls and show you how
powerful
he is." It's bad design to just daze your character i think. If they want you to feel he's really powerful, they shoul've made this fight unbeatable.This way you would sit there and think "what the flip, that's impossible", but then come back later with help and such, to defeat this big mouth.The way it is now is more an annoyance.

If the first fight were to be unbeatable, how would you make him beatable in the final fight without making you feel that it was forced somehow?

Because in the final fight you have an entire undead army on your side, two dragons helping you and you're wielding Sohothin, reignited by Balthazar himself.I think that is more than enough to munch him away.

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The Commander is a unique convergence of powers, insights, with a miriad of talents ... a once in a billion!

Probably the only living soul able to take on a God, defeat it and go on living the 'simple life'. The Six forbid he slips and breaks his neck ... o.O

His existance is Natures counter to evils such as dragons and Gods. Ying & Yang if you wil. ;)

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I just wanna know what the point of the army was when they didn't even help against Balthazar or The Sahelanthropus directly. Your Dragon Watch allies don't join in against him either. It was the same 1v1 as the last time, which caused your death. So their plan was to build an army to distract Balthazar's army, who weren't even an issue in the first encounter, so you can fight Balthazar 1v1 again. But this time he has a Metal Gear with him at the same time so he's even stronger. Sure you have Rytlock's sword but that was a spur of the moment thing that wasn't planned. Aurene being able to help is pure luck. So the whole mission just seemed setup for an even bigger failure than the first time you fought him but you somehow manage to do it this time. There probably should of been more writing put into making the commander's victory more believable/rational. I'd settle with something simple even, like Grenth, who seems like probably the only chill god left (probably cuz necro) actually assisted you in some way with a magic blessing of some sort.

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Spoiler....

Ritlocka sword was re ingited when its flame went out. Its flame is bathazars flame. Bath was the one who re ignited the sword. The exalted explain that everything is its own weakness. Jungle dragon was all about being a hive mind. But its mind was its power and weakness. Krakatoriks weakness was its own cryatal made into a spear or ita own offspring. Bath is weak to his own godly flame. It is said he had his status and power as a god revoked but held power as a demi god. He used the last of his actual godly power to ignited ritlocks sword and escape from the mists. The flame of ritlocks sword was the last of his power as a true god.

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  • 2 years later...

@Daharahj.1325 said:

@Henry.5713 said:The commander's power comes from the basic story telling. The already done to death
fantasy cliches

Fantasy is one thing, this is outright inconsistent, you either introduce a god empowered by three different elder dragons or you let a mortal and his pet kill him, not both.

I personally couldn't swallow the ending, I just didn't buy it. But to each their own, at least the dialogue is good and Taimi is hilarious.

In my headcanon, Balthazar was struck by some of Kralkatorrik attacks before we arrive, so we're just finishing him.

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@Kulvar.1239 said:

@Henry.5713 said:The commander's power comes from the basic story telling. The already done to death
fantasy cliches

Fantasy is one thing, this is outright inconsistent, you either introduce a god empowered by three different elder dragons or you let a mortal and his pet kill him, not both.

I personally couldn't swallow the ending, I just didn't buy it. But to each their own, at least the dialogue is good and Taimi is hilarious.

In my headcanon, Balthazar was struck by some of Kralkatorrik attacks before we arrive, so we're just finishing him.

Was he struck by some of Kralkatorrik's attacks more than two years before we arrived?

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@Ashen.2907 said:

@Henry.5713 said:The commander's power comes from the basic story telling. The already done to death
fantasy cliches

Fantasy is one thing, this is outright inconsistent, you either introduce a god empowered by three different elder dragons or you let a mortal and his pet kill him, not both.

I personally couldn't swallow the ending, I just didn't buy it. But to each their own, at least the dialogue is good and Taimi is hilarious.

In my headcanon, Balthazar was struck by some of Kralkatorrik attacks before we arrive, so we're just finishing him.

Was he struck by some of Kralkatorrik's attacks more than two years before we arrived?

It's more in the span of a quarter of an hour.

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You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.Can you imagine, that next game will have our commander as main antogonist? Wahahah we will need there some "Bat" stuff, you know :bleep_bloop: Or mb they allow us to fight ourself here as...Rox?Rytlock? Penelope?

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@"Tomahawk.7361" said:possible spoilers

Where does the commander get their power from? Heroic deeds, peaked strength, and even plausible magical energies can go into making this character strong, but taking on elder dragons and gods now? Zhaitan, you had a mass airship armada, and mordremoth you cheated a physical fight by entering the dragon's mind. This time around in PoF you accomplish some fairly unimaginable feats, even for this fantasy realm. Is there any lore or explanation for how the commander is able to become this beast of power that can overthrow a god whilst fighing an elder dragon? It would help my suspension of disbelief if there was at least something.

To break this down in very amateur literary student kind of way....... Its simply the power of the story arc. The commander HAS to win (eventually), because the story requires it. The stakes are simply too high at this point for any other outcome, short of the writers wanting to cut it short... and even if they try, it'll be extremely difficult to make it satisfying.

You also have to look at each main story line by its theme. Pact Tyria is broken up in to 3 Act. The first is about the Character, and itself is broken up into 3 parts.... Coming to Grips with Society, Facing your past/personal demons, and Standing up for whats Right (and introduces a new threat). The second part is about Destiny's edge and Orders. Both run in parallel (DE as part of Dungeon stories, and Orders as personal story), and are ultimately about Cooperation. DE's side is about Forgiveness, overcoming Grief, and Personal dynamics. The Orders are about Leadership, Friendship, and Sacrifice. The third arc are more diluted due to the pacing.... but is largely supposed to be about Adversity, Overcoming fear, Open mindedness (in relation to the pact's strength in methods, and understanding theres more to an enemy then its external components), and the power of Unity.

LS1 was a mixed bag, and didn't really have a common theme throughout. Although one could easy argue that it was about Scarlet's "hero's journey".

LS2 refocuses on essentially repeating the Pact arc (Unity/Cooperation) on a more global scale. Working to convince the 5 largest kingdoms in Tyria to not only look beyond own concerns, but to also set aside their differences in light of past threats, and come to terms with the inevitable threat posed by the remaining Elder Dragons.

Heart of Thorns was a proverbial "Darkest Hour". This combined with parts of LS1 and all of LS2 were meant to form a complete story arc; with the start of HOT being the lowest point of which they had fight back up from.

LS3 is Doubt. The first half is about end capping HOT, and having to deal with the Fall out of Modremoth's demise, and rising doubts about if their actions are helping or hurting. The Second half was mostly focused on more personal aspects of "Doubt" and Mistrust. Doubt in allies, Doubt in Leadership, Self-Doubt, and Mistrust of others; along with the struggles of building Trust, and the ways it can be manipulated.

Path of Fire is a near-complete Hero's Journey, with the inciting incident kicked off in LS3. This, along with the Commander being the underdog for the majority, is probably the main reason the story in this release was so positively receipted compared to previous ones.

LS5 repeats a similar arc twice. Once against Joko, and again with Kralk. Joko's arc focused more on personal development in all its its characters, playing on the fact that Joko is a force of Personality. Kralkatorik's arc is highlighted by multiple failures, plunging rapidly into Darkest Hour, giving it a theme perseverance to reflect how they are fighting against an Apocalyptic Force of Nature. The end is clearly a twist to set the stage moving forward, making the Dragon's influence a lot more personal.... and thus a lot more dangerous.

Icebrood Saga looks to be setting up for a theme of Betrayal (Temptation) and Redemption, seeing as Jormag's minions have always been established as being willing, rather then dominated.

Thus the Commander doesn't get power as in "Power", but ultimately succeeds through being an opposing thesis of the antagonist... be it philosophical, metaphysical, or methodical. In Zhaitan a is a fate worse then death. Scarlet is the Commander's Equal but Opposite. Modremoth's hive mind is a perversion of Unity. Caudecus, in his monumental arrogance, twisted the White Mantle's righteous indignation into whole sale terrorism. Balthazar, disillusioned with his pantheon, and disregarding the lives of Tyria, willingly walked forward the apocalypse in his quest for Vengeance. Joko sought to become both hero and villain, establishing himself as being too powerful to oppose, but also the only thing powerful enough to offer salvation from the Dragons. Fighting Kralkatorik is fighting Entropy itself..... win or lose, the outcome is eventual and inevitable. And if talk of Jormag is to be believed, the hints of existential dread spattered thus far will be brought to the forefront.

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@Kulvar.1239 said:

@Henry.5713 said:The commander's power comes from the basic story telling. The already done to death
fantasy cliches

Fantasy is one thing, this is outright inconsistent, you either introduce a god empowered by three different elder dragons or you let a mortal and his pet kill him, not both.

I personally couldn't swallow the ending, I just didn't buy it. But to each their own, at least the dialogue is good and Taimi is hilarious.

In my headcanon, Balthazar was struck by some of Kralkatorrik attacks before we arrive, so we're just finishing him.

Was he struck by some of Kralkatorrik's attacks more than two years before we arrived?

It's more in the span of a quarter of an hour.

Sorry for my joke about the age of the thread.

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