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WvW Event Idea: No Elite Spec


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Let's look at it this way...

Since we know this... "No restricting events to specific classes, expansions, etc."... What could Ben possibly mean by "etc", in addition to "classes" and "expansions"... Let's take a look at a few things!

"classes" category...

  • specific professions

"expansions"

  • HoT
  • PoF

"etc" category that follows along with the "classes" and "expansion" categories...

  • specific builds
  • specific elites
  • specific core builds
  • specific pack (core, hot, pof)

Ben didn't need to give readers an itemized list... He gave a couple examples to establish a guideline of things that fall into those types of categories. He even used the word "guideline" in his full post to set the expectations and restrictions... Having said that, we are not getting "core only week", because that fall into both the "classes" and "expansion" categories....

Guideline set. Reader applies logic. That's it.

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@"Swagger.1459" said:Let's look at it this way...

Since we know this... "No restricting events to specific classes, expansions, etc."... What could Ben possibly mean by "etc", in addition to "classes" and "expansions"... Let's take a look at a few things!

"classes" category...

  • specific professions

"expansions"

  • HoT
  • PoF

"etc" category that follows along with the "classes" and "expansion" categories...

  • specific builds
  • specific elites
  • specific core builds
  • specific pack (core, hot, pof)

Ben didn't need to give readers an itemized list... He gave a couple examples to establish a guideline of things that fall into those types of categories. He even used the word "guideline" in his full post to set the expectations and restrictions... Having said that, we are not getting "core only week", because that fall into both the "classes" and "expansion" categories....

Guideline set. Reader applies logic. That's it.

Your interpretation of "etc" is completely out of whack. You are literally taking Anets words and twisting them into what you want them to be to apply rules they never stated. And again, as I mentioned above, no downed state week instantly break with the guidelines as it exclude specific classes and builds by proxy - it breaks class mechanics and traits. Yet we still got a no downed state week.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:Let's look at it this way...

Since we know this... "No restricting events to specific classes, expansions, etc."... What could Ben possibly mean by "etc", in addition to "classes" and "expansions"... Let's take a look at a few things!

"classes" category...
  • specific professions

"expansions"
  • HoT
  • PoF

"etc" category that follows along with the "classes" and "expansion" categories...
  • specific builds
  • specific elites
  • specific core builds
  • specific pack (core, hot, pof)

Ben didn't need to give readers an itemized list... He gave a couple examples to establish a guideline of things that fall into those types of categories. He even used the word "guideline" in his full post to set the expectations and restrictions... Having said that, we are not getting "core only week", because that fall into both the "classes" and "expansion" categories....

Guideline set. Reader applies logic. That's it.

Your interpretation of "etc" is completely out of whack. You are literally taking Anets words and twisting them into what you want them to be to apply rules they never stated. And again, as I mentioned above, no downed state week instantly break with the guidelines as it exclude specific classes and builds by proxy - it breaks class mechanics and traits. Yet we still got a no downed state week.

My “interpretation of” Ben’s “etc” in that post follows exactly what was written as examples...

“etc" (etcetera- "used at the end of a list to indicate that further, similar items are included.)

“similar items are included.”. “similar items” i.e. core, would be a “similar” item based off of Ben’s own words... What about “similar items are included” is not understandable? “Etc” is not a new concept, and readers understood Ben’s guideline in that thread...

A specific mechanic, like downed state, is vastly diffferent than locking out 18 elite specialization, weapons, slot skills and traits from play... Pretty far reaching to equate the two somehow...

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@"Swagger.1459" said:A specific mechanic, like downed state, is vastly diffferent than locking out 18 elite specialization, weapons, slot skills and traits from play... Pretty far reaching to equate the two somehow...Far reaching is adding your own twist to etc wen the important part is obviously about excluding a large part of the player base.

Heres a simple and single question I would like you to answer:

Does only allowing vanilla stop/exlude anyone from from joining WvW regardless of the class they are logged in with?

If you answer no, its within the guidelines.

If you answer yes, I'll give you that and leave the thread, it does exlude people. I'd like to know the reason other than "I cant play my elite spec for a week!!!", but I dont think I'll get something.

Now answer truthfully.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:A specific mechanic, like downed state, is vastly diffferent than locking out 18 elite specialization, weapons, slot skills and traits from play... Pretty far reaching to equate the two somehow...Far reaching is adding your own twist to etc wen the important part is obviously about excluding a large part of the player base.

Heres a simple and single question I would like you to answer:

Does only allowing vanilla stop/exlude anyone from from joining WvW regardless of the class they are logged in with?

If you answer no, its within the guidelines.

If you answer yes, I'll give you that and leave the thread, it does exlude people. I'd like to know the reason other than "I cant play my elite spec for a week!!!", but I dont think I'll get something.

Now answer truthfully.

How do you not understand what Ben said?

You should ask him directly if you can’t figure it out... go ahead and pm him if you need further clarification...

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:A specific mechanic, like downed state, is vastly diffferent than locking out 18 elite specialization, weapons, slot skills and traits from play... Pretty far reaching to equate the two somehow...Far reaching is adding your own twist to etc wen the important part is obviously about excluding a large part of the player base.

Heres a simple and single question I would like you to answer:

Does only allowing vanilla stop/exlude anyone from from joining WvW regardless of the class they are logged in with?

If you answer no, its within the guidelines.

If you answer yes, I'll give you that and leave the thread, it does exlude people. I'd like to know the reason other than "I cant play my elite spec for a week!!!", but I dont think I'll get something.

Now answer truthfully.

How do you not understand what Ben said?

You should ask him directly if you can’t figure it out... go ahead and pm him if you need further clarification...That is not an answer and I will not pester devs with trivial matters.
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I would like to point out the usage of the word "restrict" in ben's post. When you restrict something it is either such that only that within the restriction is allowed or you restrict something so it is excluded from choice.

What does this mean? People have mentioned that the no downstate event excluded the scrapper elite specialization however during the event the scrapper e-spec was not excluded from your choices of traitlines, some functionallity was lost however your choice was not restricted.

The proposed event in this thread mentions restricting players choices to only include core traitlines. Thus e-specs become excluded from choice in your traitlines and this breaks the sugested guidelines.

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@"LaGranse.8652" said:I would like to point out the usage of the word "restrict" in ben's post. When you restrict something it is either such that only that within the restriction is allowed or you restrict something so it is excluded from choice.

What does this mean? People have mentioned that the no downstate event excluded the scrapper elite specialization however during the event the scrapper e-spec was not excluded from your choices of traitlines, some functionallity was lost however your choice was not restricted.

The proposed event in this thread mentions restricting players choices to only include core traitlines. Thus e-specs become excluded from choice in your traitlines and this breaks the sugested guidelines.Exluding from choice of specs is the same as excluding traits from certain trait lines by removing the ability to down state. Neither stops anyone from joining WvW and playing whatever class they want.

Otherwise you might as well still have the option to choose an elite but all traits are untrained and you cant buy new hero points, until you leave WvW and it revert to what you had before.

There you go, problem solved lol. You can still choose elite specs, you just have no traits. Just like downed state week.

What, this is about as logical an argument as trying to interpret the meaning of "etc".

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"LaGranse.8652" said:I would like to point out the usage of the word "restrict" in ben's post. When you restrict something it is either such that only that within the restriction is allowed or you restrict something so it is excluded from choice.

What does this mean? People have mentioned that the no downstate event excluded the scrapper elite specialization however during the event the scrapper e-spec was not excluded from your choices of traitlines, some functionallity was lost however your choice was not restricted.

The proposed event in this thread mentions restricting players choices to only include core traitlines. Thus e-specs become excluded from choice in your traitlines and this breaks the sugested guidelines.

-
snip
What, this is about as logical an argument as trying to interpret the meaning of
"etc"
.

*et cet·er·a

adverbadverb: etceteraused at the end of a list to indicate that further, similar items are included."we're trying to resolve problems of obtaining equipment, drugs, et cetera"synonyms: and so on, and so forth, and so on and so forth, and the rest, and/or the like, and/or suchlike, and/or more of the same, and/or similar things, et cetera et cetera, and others, among others, et al., etc.; Moreindicating that a list is too tedious or clichéd to give in full."we've all got to do our duty, pull our weight, et cetera, et cetera"*

[copypasta]

There you go.

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I run both core and elite toons in WvW. That said I don't think this would work since it would require people that only have a few toons to have to regear before they could WvW. I think that would hurt the population while the event was running and be a bit of burden placed on people that don't play core classes. Unless Anet was to provide free gear and gold for the week not sure this would go over and even then I think it would alienate some players since they may be getting in to play to find they can't.

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@wanya.1697 said:why regear? its just about no access to elite specs in traits if I did not get it wrong? could be fun maybe blasting combo fields could be usefull again

A lot of people run gear associated to the weapons and traits they have access to. Example I have three engineers; 1 Core, 1 Scrapper, 1 Holo. They use pretty different gear. If I just had my halo then I would have gear that wouldn't be available to my core engi. For me it's not a big deal since I had the other 2, but for a player that might not they are left with equipment they can't even use potentially as well as gear, sigils and runes that support another build. Again on paper seems like a good idea but it would be disruptive for non-alt-o-holics and for min/maxers.

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Might be cool to see how core specs changed through the years.

S tier: Core warriors, guardians and thieves.A tier: Core mesmer, necro and ranger.Trash tier: Core engi, revenant.Skill based tier: Core ele (based on your skill level you might be S or trash tier).

Probably would be way more balanced roaming than the condi mirages, bowcampbeasts and holos we have around now.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:(based on your skill level you might be S or trash tier).That is my experience fighting anyone on any spec. I've met vanilla engineers more dangerous than inept mirages.

I don't know... that happens only if there is an insane different in skill level.

Like for example an inept mirage who just opened the game ever in 1 hour, or a thousand hours core engi.

As core engi you simply don't have the sustain tools to compete with the other specs, even if core.

For example core guardian warrior and thief are on the level of HoT and PoF specs if not better in many scenarios (talking of roaming).

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