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[suggestion] invisible commander tag


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I think this is a perfectly eligable discussion to revisit now.

The old inclusion and gold-cost arguments made sense back when there was no shortage of commanders, to stop players from oversaturating maps with tags and it also served as a filter where gold of that amount back in vanilla was usually pooled and could then signify a player who others had placed confidence (and gold) in.

Now there is a shortage of commanders, fewer dedicated players who would pay for someone else's tag and as such there is absolutely no reason to have that barrier of entry. It is not inclusive anymore, it is all-exclusive as there are players who could lead but are discouraged by said entry barrier (this includes old players who may create alt accounts to help servers with content). It is also ridiculous because the way around it now is to have someone else who isn't the commander but has a tag, tag up to get access to the marker controls and then place a marker on the player who actually commands without a tag. So there are work arounds but they are tedius and difficult to motivate.

Instead there is an argument to be made for access to the marker controls as being inclusive in the current setting when the options are such a tag or no tag.

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IF your "Guild" wants to gvg with another, just go to Obsidian Sanctum's arena. You want a straight up fight, you can have it there. Its out of the way, you won't be bothered, unless a really jerkentine Guild shows up to get in the way.....I mean if the rest of the map isn't good enough or you see the rest of your own server as a HINDERANCE....well gee wiz, why are you even playing a WvW map anyways? It's team play, but you want to do things with just your GvG group? That's not Team Play, that's guild play, and in that case, we don't need you.

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@"Straegen.2938" said:Since we can see party/guild members on the map without a squad, the cat is already out of the bag as far as guilds/groups being able to run "silent". Anet should just give in on this one.That... makes absolutely no sense at all. If you are in the party well you already have a party going so of course you know where they are. If you see grouped guild members on the map you would already know its raid as they would have announced it in guild chat. Or are you implying that your own guild is trying to hide from you, lol?

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@"KeyOrion.9506" said:IF your "Guild" wants to gvg with another, just go to Obsidian Sanctum's arena. You want a straight up fight, you can have it there. Its out of the way, you won't be bothered, unless a really jerkentine Guild shows up to get in the way.....I mean if the rest of the map isn't good enough or you see the rest of your own server as a HINDERANCE....well gee wiz, why are you even playing a WvW map anyways? It's team play, but you want to do things with just your GvG group? That's not Team Play, that's guild play, and in that case, we don't need you.

team play yes, but team doesnt mean you have to run in one omniblob. you can also act as one closed unit inside a team. the tags of these closed guild raids will just distract the PUGs from an open lead if there is one. (however to another active commander they should be shown for coordination).with tags that are invisible but shown to the commander, you might aswell see more smallscale groups use their tags so the commander can see if they are on the way to deal with smaller opposing groups being called out. invisible tags can be used for better coordination.

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Ohhhh I thought it was so you could actually hide from Enemy spies, I mean Mez has one account per server an he just LOVES pulling all those levers on everyone's towers and keeps...and, just admit it. You just want to keep under the radar from actual spies who would know your exact positioning and call out. Or use your own spies on the enemy server so you could move into position without a counter spy seeing exactly where you were tagged up at. You basically want a "Fog of War" for your tag. Only you and your group would be able to coordinate an attack without your position being given readily away from some douchebag on your own team. Tell me i'm wrong.

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@"KeyOrion.9506" said:Ohhhh I thought it was so you could actually hide from Enemy spies, I mean Mez has one account per server an he just LOVES pulling all those levers on everyone's towers and keeps...and, just admit it. You just want to keep under the radar from actual spies who would know your exact positioning and call out. Or use your own spies on the enemy server so you could move into position without a counter spy seeing exactly where you were tagged up at. You basically want a "Fog of War" for your tag. Only you and your group would be able to coordinate an attack without your position being given readily away from some kitten on your own team. Tell me i'm wrong.

currently WvW is too far from being balanced, for it to make sense to care enough to spy and certainly not needed in that way. (if you know your opponent watches tags and you care about it, you can also use that to mislead them)

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@MUDse.7623 said:

currently WvW is too far from being balanced, for it to make sense to care enough to spy and certainly not needed in that way. (if you know your opponent watches tags and you care about it, you can also use that to mislead them)

I'm sorry...WvW is not balanced?.....How so?...I been playing wvw for six years...this balance that you speak of is alien to me....Seriously though, Sounds more like your interested in just getting to a particular spot to fight in a GvG. If you didn't really care about spies, and your for playing with the team...what does it matter if stragglers hook up with you that aren't in your tight knit little group? It sounds exclusive, and I dont' think any argument that you may make is gonna make it sound any different. If it's team play, what does it matter if PUGS see your tag, and try to gravitate towards your position? You havn't really given a very good answer to explain the situation. It looks like your annoyed with PUGS is what it sounds like. If your annoyed with the straggler player then say so, but don't beat around the bush trying to act polite. I seriously want to spit on the ground right now with your type of reasoning behind your argument.

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@KeyOrion.9506 said:

currently WvW is too far from being balanced, for it to make sense to care enough to spy and certainly not needed in that way. (if you know your opponent watches tags and you care about it, you can also use that to mislead them)

I'm sorry...WvW is not balanced?.....How so?...I been playing wvw for six years...this balance that you speak of is alien to me....Seriously though, Sounds more like your interested in just getting to a particular spot to fight in a GvG. If you didn't really care about spies, and your for playing with the team...what does it matter if stragglers hook up with you that aren't in your tight knit little group? It sounds exclusive, and I dont' think any argument that you may make is gonna make it sound any different. If it's team play, what does it matter if PUGS see your tag, and try to gravitate towards your position? You havn't really given a very good answer to explain the situation. It looks like your annoyed with PUGS is what it sounds like. If your annoyed with the straggler player then say so, but don't beat around the bush trying to act polite. I seriously want to spit on the ground right now with your type of reasoning behind your argument.

Tbh roaming is not any close to balanced. If ur talking about pirateship zerg meta with 3 classes, than it's also far from balanced

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This particular thread was never about "Balance" issues. This thread was about how they wanted a Private group with a Private hidden tag, to go do "private" stuff without being bugged by PUGS. Lets' just admit that. They wanted to go do things with their own little friends/guild and didn't anyone else around to be seen. They admitted openly that they didn't give a damn about "spies". Which leaves PUG annoyances. That's all this thread was about. They were annoyed with other people joining their group, and wanted to make it more exclusive to their own little group. I'm not gonna beat about the bush with how this thread looks to me.

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@KeyOrion.9506 said:

currently WvW is too far from being balanced, for it to make sense to care enough to spy and certainly not needed in that way. (if you know your opponent watches tags and you care about it, you can also use that to mislead them)

I'm sorry...WvW is not balanced?.....How so?...I been playing wvw for six years...this balance that you speak of is alien to me....Seriously though, Sounds more like your interested in just getting to a particular spot to fight in a GvG. If you didn't really care about spies, and your for playing with the team...what does it matter if stragglers hook up with you that aren't in your tight knit little group? It sounds exclusive, and I dont' think any argument that you may make is gonna make it sound any different. If it's team play, what does it matter if PUGS see your tag, and try to gravitate towards your position? You havn't really given a very good answer to explain the situation. It looks like your annoyed with PUGS is what it sounds like. If your annoyed with the straggler player then say so, but don't beat around the bush trying to act polite. I seriously want to spit on the ground right now with your type of reasoning behind your argument.

you should not read too much into my lines that i did not write.i am not part of any larger guild, i mostly do play solo or rarely am a pug.balance is relevant because you did try to accuse me being interested in spying for whatever reason and my point was just that in an unbalanced therefor uncompetitive mode, there is no need to spy.guilds already do run closed. that is not inclusive. the fact that you see them or not doesnt change a thing about them being exclusive.

you do not get any info from tag on the map, just that there is a commander. ofc your server can set rules for wich tag does mean what, but that again has to be communicated first and everyone would have to follow that rule, there is no UI based info about your squad.i want 2 things:

  • at the very least the squadleaders should know each others position to reduce the amount they need to communicate in chat for their movement.
  • i as a pug do want to know on first glance on the map wich tag does welcome my presence.

right now guilds sometimes use some above mentioned workarounds to have an invisible tag, then they dont distract from an open lead but they also do not show their position to the other squadleader. or they run with a visible tag so everyone will know their position, but i as a pug wont see right away that they would prefer me to stay away.there are multiple ways of solving this. one as i said would be an option for a tag that is only shown to squadleaders, but there are probably other ways to solve this that do not require the tags to be invisible to some players, if you got a suggestion for that i am all ears.

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No I did not accuse you of spying. I said the only reason a person would go Tagless in a group was not to telegraph their position to an enemy spy. But, you said you didn't care about spies. Which brings back the original reasoning to having a hidden tag. There's no reason to go hidden tag, unless you were trying NOT to telegraph your position to a possible enemy spy on the same team, or to not pull in PUGS to your position, because you didn't want to have them around. When a commander tag POPS up on the map, there are some players NOT in your guild, and NOT in your little friends list, that will GRAVITATE towards your tag. So you want to command, but only have your select group to be able to see that tag ON THE MAP. That tells me, you don't WANT pugs, since you didn't give a damn about spies. Which makes your little group exclusively a NON-team oriented group that wants to do their own little gimmick without being bugged or bothered. Yah know what. I say do it. Just make an Invisible tag so nobody can see them on the map. It serves two purposes. One, if you don't want a pug to know your whereabouts so be it. No skin off my teeth. I don't care. All I care about is the team overall, if you wanna go skinny dipping with your group so be it. Two, it's like fog of war, if the Spy wants to spy, then they would have to be part of the group to know it's exact location instead of saying "Hey the enemy tag is over at Ogrewatch, you should send our zerg or some defenders." Completely works for me.

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@"KeyOrion.9506" said:No I did not accuse you of spying. I said the only reason a person would go Tagless in a group was not to telegraph their position to an enemy spy. But, you said you didn't care about spies. Which brings back the original reasoning to having a hidden tag. There's no reason to go hidden tag, unless you were trying NOT to telegraph your position to a possible enemy spy on the same team, or to not pull in PUGS to your position, because you didn't want to have them around. When a commander tag POPS up on the map, there are some players NOT in your guild, and NOT in your little friends list, that will GRAVITATE towards your tag. So you want to command, but only have your select group to be able to see that tag ON THE MAP. That tells me, you don't WANT pugs, since you didn't give a kitten about spies. Which makes your little group exclusively a NON-team oriented group that wants to do their own little gimmick without being bugged or bothered. Yah know what. I say do it. Just make an Invisible tag so nobody can see them on the map. It serves two purposes. One, if you don't want a pug to know your whereabouts so be it. No skin off my teeth. I don't care. All I care about is the team overall, if you wanna go skinny dipping with your group so be it. Two, it's like fog of war, if the Spy wants to spy, then they would have to be part of the group to know it's exact location instead of saying "Hey the enemy tag is over at Ogrewatch, you should send our zerg or some defenders." Completely works for me.

please read again. i am not part of a group. i just want to see clearly wich tags do appreciate my presence.

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@Safandula.8723 said:What im missing in wvw is to tag with ur friends, but to be invisible as commander to others. It would rly help to organise in small groups, since the red mark wont be retargeted from leader all the time, and u will be also able to put markers.I think its just a small change that could realy help

Create a squad, leave the squad, rejoin. Works well for my guild.

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@Deaeira.2651 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:What im missing in wvw is to tag with ur friends, but to be invisible as commander to others. It would rly help to organise in small groups, since the red mark wont be retargeted from leader all the time, and u will be also able to put markers.I think its just a small change that could realy help

Create a squad, leave the squad, rejoin. Works well for my guild.

thats the whole point. u cant put marks, and noone know where is commander

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@Safandula.8723 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:What im missing in wvw is to tag with ur friends, but to be invisible as commander to others. It would rly help to organise in small groups, since the red mark wont be retargeted from leader all the time, and u will be also able to put markers.I think its just a small change that could realy help

Create a squad, leave the squad, rejoin. Works well for my guild.

thats the whole point. u cant put marks, and noone know where is commander

Sorry hadn't seen that it was posted before... in the teams i'm playing in, the commander is still noticable without a tag. If it's really about 20+ groups, it find it ok to force the commander tag to be visible.

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  • 3 months later...

WHY THE $? DIDN'T THAT MAKE IT TO PATCH NOTES! THAT IS AWESOME!

Can anyone confirm that it works as we expect. Aka you tag up and your group can see the tag and others can't? Is the work day over yet....need to be online.

If it is true than, thank you! Will making running havocs easier while not pulling people from the main tag that needs them.

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