Karl please review Hidden Thief in Shadow Arts

[Tringsh.2380]

Hi Karl, this is a desperate plea from a power dagger dagger thief, as part of the attention thief is getting for Dead Eye can you please review the Hidden Thief trait.Prior to the trait line UI change I was always able to get my 50% movement speed buff from cloak and dagger but by combining stealth on steel with the 50% movement speed buff I'm no longer able to take it.

As you will know, we thief's like to precast cloak and dagger prior to steal for a burst opener into back stab and with steal putting us in stealth it causes the Cloak and Dagger to reveals us which destroys the chain. My only other alternative is to use Infiltrator's Signet which I already do but it means I get only one gap closer with cloak and dagger.

I would love to start using shadow arts again with D/D which is what I had been doing since beta but at the moment unless I take D/P (which I don't like playing) it's not going to happen.

Can you please, please, please review this now that the opportunity is there, some of us have been asking for this for years and it would give us back another way of playing core thief.

Many thanks,

GribbleGruff

[Menyus.4610]

Others prefer it the way it is atm

[Tringsh.2380]

Why not make the 50% movement speed buff baseline then we can all have fun?

[Tringsh.2380]

My biggest issue with it is that it robs D/D players of one of the core traits we used to have . It's jut not worth me taking that trait line with D/D unless they split up those trait effects, which really sucks because I would love to have 50% movement speed buff and a blind on cloak and dagger again.

[Jana.6831]

Exactly, Tringsh. And I'd also love to have the blind on falling damage again, but all of that is out of our reach.

[Tringsh.2380]

Would love to see some kind of response on this from a dev...

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Tringsh.2380 said:My biggest issue with it is that it robs D/D players of one of the core traits we used to have . It's jut not worth me taking that trait line with D/D unless they split up those trait effects, which really sucks because I would love to have 50% movement speed buff and a blind on cloak and dagger again.

I'd rather leave it as it is. Players will complain about thief being too efficient and incredibly combo heavy again. And we'll start recieving more bullshit nerfs like the 1second cool down to a backstab.

We know that one! The one where you fucking miss and you just walk around with your thumb up your ass. Meanwhile your 3 second cloak is ticking down which only affords you at most two chances, and normally just one shot at a proper backstab.

[MUDse.7623]

hasnt it been like this for like quite a while? shortly after HoT i switched to shadow arts and then it has already been like that, i like it as it is. if you want to go for a quick backstab why do you precast CnD if you can just steal + backstab ? i know its more damage with CnD but also costs initative if your opponent dogges your steal you will still be stealthed with hidden thief and no additonal ini wasted due to CnD miss and can still backstab.the only thing i can imagine you need that for is to two shot your opponent if he is squishy, thief has already alot of possibilities to one or two shot alot of people. i dont think they need even more ways.

i dont play D/D but i really dont understand why it is such an issue?

for a deadeye tho it is an issue if you change it, when i play deadeye i have next to my rifle a dagger in the other set mainhand. with that trait i can stealth => backtab. against mesmers you can mark the clone and backstab, when clone dies you can mark another clone -> backstab. so changing this will nerf deadeye and i feel like they want us to play deadeye.

edit:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:We know that one! The one where you kitten miss and you just walk around with your thumb up your kitten. Meanwhile your 3 second cloak is ticking down which only affords you at most two chances, and normally just one shot at a proper backstab.

oh this again ! :Dyou are not to spamm backstab but try to find a good moment in that 3 seconds to use it, 3 seconds is alot. and 2 chances is good enough, i do hit most backstabs.

[Cynz.9437]

Just steal + backstab. Certainly less damage, but most of it comes from AA anyway.

[Cobrakon.3108]

@Cynz.9437 said:Just steal + backstab. Certainly less damage, but most of it comes from AA anyway.

And thats the sad part.... AuroAttack is so strong and BS is weak enough that u sometimes hardly notice the difference without BS. I wish auto attack was reduced and was more about small damage filler and big hits were brought back ala bs etc.

[Tringsh.2380]

I just want to clarify that I don't want the traits removed just separated so that it doesn't conflict with another pre-existing play style. If you don't play D/D and hadn't prior to the trait change then you won't appreciate fully what I'm requesting and why it's desired. Power D/D is a really aggressive play style in pvp and it's not as forgiving as D/P as the access to stealth isn't really there. Having the blind on stealth particularly with Cloak and Dagger was one of the best survival tools to use and CnD pre-cast into steal is a must have for the opening damage spike. IMO the only Master trait worth taking in Shadow arts is Hidden Thief for a D/D power build with the movement speed buff BUT steal is to valuable for me as an opener with cloak and dagger.

[MUDse.7623]

@Tringsh.2380 said:I just want to clarify that I don't want the traits removed just separated so that it doesn't conflict with another pre-existing play style. If you don't play D/D and hadn't prior to the trait change then you won't appreciate fully what I'm requesting and why it's desired. Power D/D is a really aggressive play style in pvp and it's not as forgiving as D/P as the access to stealth isn't really there. Having the blind on stealth particularly with Cloak and Dagger was one of the best survival tools to use and CnD pre-cast into steal is a must have for the opening damage spike. IMO the only Master trait worth taking in Shadow arts is Hidden Thief for a D/D power build with the movement speed buff BUT steal is to valuable for me as an opener with cloak and dagger.

as a deadeye i need both effects tho. why not ask for like 'shadow Protector' to be replaced by something that people actually use - waht would you like there as D/D?. or does someone out ther use this trait? i think there could be a trait similar to shadows embrace but for soft CC - to get rid of weakness for instance while stealthed.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Cobrakon.3108 said:I wish auto attack was reduced and was more about small damage filler and big hits were brought back ala bs etc.

Hell n....I mean, I do not support that. High auto-attack damage is essential while waiting for Initiative regen after a burst.

[MUDse.7623]

@Cobrakon.3108 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:Just steal + backstab. Certainly less damage, but most of it comes from AA anyway.

And thats the sad part.... AuroAttack is so strong and BS is weak enough that u sometimes hardly notice the difference without BS. I wish auto attack was reduced and was more about small damage filler and big hits were brought back ala bs etc.

how much higher do you want bs to hit? i already oneshot alot of people with it. just yesterday 23k backstab on a mesmer.. but hey buff it, then i wont need DJ anymore and BS is easier to land :D

[babazhook.6805]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Tringsh.2380 said:I just want to clarify that I don't want the traits removed just separated so that it doesn't conflict with another pre-existing play style. If you don't play D/D and hadn't prior to the trait change then you won't appreciate fully what I'm requesting and why it's desired. Power D/D is a really aggressive play style in pvp and it's not as forgiving as D/P as the access to stealth isn't really there. Having the blind on stealth particularly with Cloak and Dagger was one of the best survival tools to use and CnD pre-cast into steal is a must have for the opening damage spike. IMO the only Master trait worth taking in Shadow arts is Hidden Thief for a D/D power build with the movement speed buff BUT steal is to valuable for me as an opener with cloak and dagger.

as a deadeye i need both effects tho. why not ask for like 'shadow Protector' to be replaced by something that people actually use - waht would you like there as D/D?. or does someone out ther use this trait? i think there could be a trait similar to shadows embrace but for soft CC - to get rid of weakness for instance while stealthed.

I can't think any reason to use Shadow protecter. It has no real duration and the fact it can be shared of little benefit giving its limited application range. What might work here is a sun and moon type trait wherein one garners a benefit per wielded dagger. Perhaps modify the existing.

One dagger the same existing shadow protector on stealth but increasing duration of regen to 10 seconds and adding a second benefit to stealth with the second dagger such as on stealth Remove one of those CC conditions with the same timer as SE . This might make HIS more user friendly as well as it could be used to cleanse damaging and the very same cleanse in a d/d build will purge the non damaging.

[Tringsh.2380]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Tringsh.2380 said:I just want to clarify that I don't want the traits removed just separated so that it doesn't conflict with another pre-existing play style. If you don't play D/D and hadn't prior to the trait change then you won't appreciate fully what I'm requesting and why it's desired. Power D/D is a really aggressive play style in pvp and it's not as forgiving as D/P as the access to stealth isn't really there. Having the blind on stealth particularly with Cloak and Dagger was one of the best survival tools to use and CnD pre-cast into steal is a must have for the opening damage spike. IMO the only Master trait worth taking in Shadow arts is Hidden Thief for a D/D power build with the movement speed buff BUT steal is to valuable for me as an opener with cloak and dagger.

as a deadeye i need both effects tho. why not ask for like 'shadow Protector' to be replaced by something that people actually use - waht would you like there as D/D?. or does someone out ther use this trait? i think there could be a trait similar to shadows embrace but for soft CC - to get rid of weakness for instance while stealthed.

I can't think any reason to use Shadow protecter. It has no real duration and the fact it can be shared of little benefit giving its limited application range. What might work here is a sun and moon type trait wherein one garners a benefit per wielded dagger. Perhaps modify the existing.

One dagger the same existing shadow protector on stealth but increasing duration of regen to 10 seconds and adding a second benefit to stealth with the second dagger such as on stealth Remove one of those CC conditions with the same timer as SE . This might make HIS more user friendly as well as it could be used to cleanse damaging and the very same cleanse in a d/d build will purge the non damaging.

Personally I think they should review leeching venoms as well. All I really want is the 50% movement buff whilst in stealth. It used to be separate, why not just base line it as a minor then pair Resilience of Shadows with Shadow Protector. That would make more sense to me to give regen and reduce damage in the same trait.