Real question about renegade

[The Ace.9105]

@witcher.3197 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:-Double face-palm--- To all of you saying that Renegade is paper---try running Kala and Retribution damage reduction traits. If after that you still think that Renegade dies of a mesmer/war/{insert any class here} who sneezed on the other side of the map, then you just probably stick to meta builds and not play Renegade.

If you think renegade has enough sustain to survive a decently coordinated burst then you're probably playing in silver where your enemies can barely find the autoattack :)

Decently coordinated can be survived pretty easily and if your teammates are awake you can survive well coordinated burst too(assuming you don't tank it head on while doing nothing). Also if the enemy goes all in and your teammates react you can get them in daze field and start doing damage and get one or 2 down. In general renegade has more survivability than herald.

[otto.5684]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:-Double face-palm--- To all of you saying that Renegade is paper---try running Kala and Retribution damage reduction traits. If after that you still think that Renegade dies of a mesmer/war/{insert any class here} who sneezed on the other side of the map, then you just probably stick to meta builds and not play Renegade.

Bro this is not PvE you know. Most classes do not run damage reduction traits, cuz these will not help you what so ever. PvP survivbaility relies on how much damage can you avoid, how quickly can you heal and how can avoid/break CC. Renegade is lacking on all three fronts. Plus mobility factors heavily in sustainability. Another area where renegade is lacking. Sure, you could run shiro/kalla, but you will be relegated to power builds. The comparison between kalla and herald in sustainability and mobility significantly favors herald. So why run kalla in PvP, ever?!

[The Ace.9105]

@otto.5684 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:-Double face-palm--- To all of you saying that Renegade is paper---try running Kala and Retribution damage reduction traits. If after that you still think that Renegade dies of a mesmer/war/{insert any class here} who sneezed on the other side of the map, then you just probably stick to meta builds and not play Renegade.

Bro this is not PvE you know. Most classes do not run damage reduction traits, cuz these will not help you what so ever. PvP survivbaility relies on how much damage can you avoid, how quickly can you heal and how can avoid/break CC. Renegade is lacking on all three fronts. Plus mobility factors heavily in sustainability. Another area where renegade is lacking. Sure, you could run shiro/kalla, but you will be relegated to power builds. The comparison between kalla and herald in sustainability and mobility significantly favors herald. So why run kalla in PvP, ever?!

Because unlike herald you can hold points with renegade. It's a bunker/duelist/team fight spec. Sure ppl don't like it and prefer max damage cause "nothing but max damage is boring af". Renegade has enough sustain and damage as it is rn. Otherwise if you buff it now it becomes completely broken when other classes get nerfed. In general renegade has more sustain and a bit more mobility when run with the extra 25 energy trait from legend swap than herald. The good about herald is the flexible healing skill that works without adding healing power to the build and you can juke bursts with it. Renegade is good but it isn't easy to play and you have to get used to it which can be hard when you are used to the +1/roamer style of gameplay.

The playstyle is pretty similar with the old d/d ele back in vanilla. Also on renegade Instead of going to the enemy let the enemy come to you. Your renegade summons like the enemies near you and your short bow likes the enemies away from you.

[ollbirtan.2915]

@witcher.3197 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:-Double face-palm--- To all of you saying that Renegade is paper---try running Kala and Retribution damage reduction traits. If after that you still think that Renegade dies of a mesmer/war/{insert any class here} who sneezed on the other side of the map, then you just probably stick to meta builds and not play Renegade.

If you think renegade has enough sustain to survive a decently coordinated burst then you're probably playing in silver where your enemies can barely find the autoattack :)

Clearly says someone who has never tried playing bunker hammer renegade.

[otto.5684]

@The Ace.9105 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:-Double face-palm--- To all of you saying that Renegade is paper---try running Kala and Retribution damage reduction traits. If after that you still think that Renegade dies of a mesmer/war/{insert any class here} who sneezed on the other side of the map, then you just probably stick to meta builds and not play Renegade.

Bro this is not PvE you know. Most classes do not run damage reduction traits, cuz these will not help you what so ever. PvP survivbaility relies on how much damage can you avoid, how quickly can you heal and how can avoid/break CC. Renegade is lacking on all three fronts. Plus mobility factors heavily in sustainability. Another area where renegade is lacking. Sure, you could run shiro/kalla, but you will be relegated to power builds. The comparison between kalla and herald in sustainability and mobility significantly favors herald. So why run kalla in PvP, ever?!

Because unlike herald you can hold points with renegade. It's a bunker/duelist/team fight spec. Sure ppl don't like it and prefer max damage cause "nothing but max damage is boring af". Renegade has enough sustain and damage as it is rn. Otherwise if you buff it now it becomes completely broken when other classes get nerfed. In general renegade has more sustain and a bit more mobility when run with the extra 25 energy trait from legend swap than herald. The good about herald is the flexible healing skill that works without adding healing power to the build and you can juke bursts with it. Renegade is good but it isn't easy to play and you have to get used to it which can be hard when you are used to the +1/roamer style of gameplay.

The playstyle is pretty similar with the old d/d ele back in vanilla. Also on renegade Instead of going to the enemy let the enemy come to you. Your renegade summons like the enemies near you and your short bow likes the enemies away from you.

If it works for you that is great. And yes, you could bunker okay in isolation, but got luck bunkering against 2 or more players, which is necessary for any bunkerish build to be even considered.

It is not that no one is willing to think outside the box. People did try. It just does not work.

[ollbirtan.2915]

By people, are you referring to your own experience, or you actually have a set of data to prove your point?

[The Ace.9105]

@otto.5684 said:

@The Ace.9105 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:-Double face-palm--- To all of you saying that Renegade is paper---try running Kala and Retribution damage reduction traits. If after that you still think that Renegade dies of a mesmer/war/{insert any class here} who sneezed on the other side of the map, then you just probably stick to meta builds and not play Renegade.

Bro this is not PvE you know. Most classes do not run damage reduction traits, cuz these will not help you what so ever. PvP survivbaility relies on how much damage can you avoid, how quickly can you heal and how can avoid/break CC. Renegade is lacking on all three fronts. Plus mobility factors heavily in sustainability. Another area where renegade is lacking. Sure, you could run shiro/kalla, but you will be relegated to power builds. The comparison between kalla and herald in sustainability and mobility significantly favors herald. So why run kalla in PvP, ever?!

Because unlike herald you can hold points with renegade. It's a bunker/duelist/team fight spec. Sure ppl don't like it and prefer max damage cause "nothing but max damage is boring af". Renegade has enough sustain and damage as it is rn. Otherwise if you buff it now it becomes completely broken when other classes get nerfed. In general renegade has more sustain and a bit more mobility when run with the extra 25 energy trait from legend swap than herald. The good about herald is the flexible healing skill that works without adding healing power to the build and you can juke bursts with it. Renegade is good but it isn't easy to play and you have to get used to it which can be hard when you are used to the +1/roamer style of gameplay.

The playstyle is pretty similar with the old d/d ele back in vanilla. Also on renegade Instead of going to the enemy let the enemy come to you. Your renegade summons like the enemies near you and your short bow likes the enemies away from you.

If it works for you that is great. And yes, you could bunker okay in isolation, but got luck bunkering against 2 or more players, which is necessary for any bunkerish build to be even considered.

It is not that no one is willing to think outside the box. People did try. It just does not work.

You can stay there for a while depending on which classes you are facing. In general tho you want to disengage the 2v1 pretty quickly. That was the case in vanilla aswell. You are performing your best as a duelist tho and with renegade there's no really a position you couldn't be in. With herald for example you shouldn't contest points and if you see condi mirage you shouldn't even go that direction but with renegade you can go anywhere you want depending on the situation. You can take the 1v1 vs soulbeast or mirage, you can +1 on point and get it decapped/capped or swap with a class that has a bad matchup. You can help in team fights with your aoe heal, prot, alacrity, regen, retal, slow, weakness, daze and you can increase your teams damage and sustain with the lifesteal area.

I think the general problem with renegade is that ppl find it to be boring cause they are used to have power creeped dps stuff and don't want to change their role. The spec also isn't the most easiest specs to play and you need to know the skills/traits pretty well for legend swapping. Also the pvp population isn't that big anymore so getting ppl to play renegade is very hard since they have already decided what they play. Afaik I am the only person in the whole game that has gotten to legend with renegade.