Discussion Thread: ArenaNet News of 21 February 2019 [Merged]

[Tiviana.2650]

@alcopaul.2156 said:

@"Paolino.8320" said:The gaming industry makes me sad. ANet employees deserve more than this.

Read the full article here:

https://kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804

mobile gaming has become a very big market. and almost all people in the world are carrying mobile phones anywhere.

it's almost certain that desktop gaming is becoming legacy gaming already (you have to be confined in a room and have a dedicated internet connection). but you have to think that full gaming experience from a desktop is very far from a mobile phone.

We have been saying this since blizzcon and the announcement of Diablo mobile. Rock solid pc gamers dont want to hear it, but this looks like the beginning of the end for pc. I am mad and sad about it, but nothing can really be done about it. You cant change the new generations coming up, and they are into tiny tech and mobile. Its the end of an era, blizzard laid off a bunch a few weeks back and they make a fortune still, so what does that bode for companies not as big?

Technology is advancing faster than ever, and big ole desktop rigs and laptops are becoming dinosaurs, people have busy lives they want to be able to do what they need to do on the go.

[MHaastrup.6978]

Hopefully this won't cause much harm to the company or its (former) employees.I didn't get gems this month because of fears regarding the games future.Unfortunately this makes me even more worried.Now I'm afraid NCSoft will force you to ruin the game. Make it pay to win or something.On the subject of mobile games, I don't have any games I like, nor do I want to play a mobile game.

[crepuscular.9047]

not surprised... the amount of revenue generated from GW2 is nothing comparable to Lineage2 according to past earnings

that's why BUY MORE GEMS WITH YOUR REAL CASH

i remember back in the older days, gems costs heaps in comparison to the amount of liquid gold in the economy, but the exchange rate probably have not gone up hand-in-hand with the amount of liquid gold that grew within the economy

[TheQuickFox.3826]

@MHaastrup.6978 said:Hopefully this won't cause much harm to the company or its (former) employees.I didn't get gems this month because of fears regarding the games future.Unfortunately this makes me even more worried.Now I'm afraid NCSoft will force you to ruin the game. Make it pay to win or something.On the subject of mobile games, I don't have any games I like, nor do I want to play a mobile game.

I honestly don't expect the existence of the game to be in any danger. GW2 is still in the top 5 or most popular MMOs (Guesstimate by me) and has a healthy revenue stream with the expansions and the gem store. There are much smaller and older MMO's that are still fine, like LOTRO that changed hands a few times but is still online and in active development.

That does not mean that there is no problem. GW2 is slowly aging a bit and it is some time ago that an expansion was released. When revenue reduces, a company needs to mind their costs of operation and layoffs can be part of this. Yes, bad news, but not the end of the world of Tyria.

[Awe.1096]

@Tiviana.2650 said:

@alcopaul.2156 said:

@"Paolino.8320" said:The gaming industry makes me sad. ANet employees deserve more than this.

Read the full article here:

https://kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804

mobile gaming has become a very big market. and almost all people in the world are carrying mobile phones anywhere.

it's almost certain that desktop gaming is becoming legacy gaming already (you have to be confined in a room and have a dedicated internet connection). but you have to think that full gaming experience from a desktop is very far from a mobile phone.

We have been saying this since blizzcon and the announcement of Diablo mobile. Rock solid pc gamers dont want to hear it, but this looks like the beginning of the end for pc. I am mad and sad about it, but nothing can really be done about it. You cant change the new generations coming up, and they are into tiny tech and mobile. Its the end of an era, blizzard laid off a bunch a few weeks back and they make a fortune still, so what does that bode for companies not as big?

Technology is advancing faster than ever, and big ole desktop rigs and laptops are becoming dinosaurs, people have busy lives they want to be able to do what they need to do on the go.

That is not true. In the scale alone PC gaming is now in better shape than it ever was. The "problem" is that potential mobile market has substantially outgrown it with easy monetization and lower development costs (= better returns and more $$$). But aside from that, the "PC gaming" as a concept is currently better developed and just overall bigger than it was in the 2000s or the 90s (before that it pretty much did not exist).

[DJRiful.3749]

What I felt was the slow project, lack of peak big updates that needs to drive the hype. Day by day, I have nothing else to do except maybe farming karma - you need like content that is guild driven dungeon. I miss the GW2 vanilla dungeon runs.

[OutOfOrder.3719]

Hopefully this is a wake up call that producing more gemstore skins does not generate significant Revenue in the long run. Or perhaps your price model of 2000 gems is ridiciously over Priced.

Creating end game content has always been where MMO's have had the most success.

Keep developing PvP, WvW, Raids, Fractals. And actually introduce a new game type Guild Vs Guild utilizing the PvP rune/amulet system already.

[MHaastrup.6978]

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:

@MHaastrup.6978 said:Hopefully this won't cause much harm to the company or its (former) employees.I didn't get gems this month because of fears regarding the games future.Unfortunately this makes me even more worried.Now I'm afraid NCSoft will force you to ruin the game. Make it pay to win or something.On the subject of mobile games, I don't have any games I like, nor do I want to play a mobile game.

I honestly don't expect the existence of the game to be in any danger. GW2 is still in the top 5 or most popular MMOs (Guesstimate by me) and has a healthy revenue stream with the expansions and the gem store. There are

much

smaller and older MMO's that are still fine, like LOTRO that changed hands a few times but is still online and in active development.

That does not mean that there is no problem. GW2 is slowly aging a bit and it is some time ago that an expansion was released. When revenue reduces, a company needs to mind their costs of operation and layoffs can be part of this. Yes, bad news, but not the end of the world of Tyria.

I'm not worried that the game will go away. I'm worried that it will change into something much worse.

@Awe.1096 said:

@Tiviana.2650 said:

@alcopaul.2156 said:

@"Paolino.8320" said:The gaming industry makes me sad. ANet employees deserve more than this.

Read the full article here:

https://kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804

mobile gaming has become a very big market. and almost all people in the world are carrying mobile phones anywhere.

it's almost certain that desktop gaming is becoming legacy gaming already (you have to be confined in a room and have a dedicated internet connection). but you have to think that full gaming experience from a desktop is very far from a mobile phone.

We have been saying this since blizzcon and the announcement of Diablo mobile. Rock solid pc gamers dont want to hear it, but this looks like the beginning of the end for pc. I am mad and sad about it, but nothing can really be done about it. You cant change the new generations coming up, and they are into tiny tech and mobile. Its the end of an era, blizzard laid off a bunch a few weeks back and they make a fortune still, so what does that bode for companies not as big?

Technology is advancing faster than ever, and big ole desktop rigs and laptops are becoming dinosaurs, people have busy lives they want to be able to do what they need to do on the go.

That is not true. In the scale alone PC gaming is now in better shape than it ever was. The "problem" is that potential mobile market has substantially outgrown it with easy monetization and lower development costs (= better returns and more $$$). But aside from that, the "PC gaming" as a concept is currently better developed and just overall bigger than it was in the 2000s or the 90s (before that it pretty much did not exist).

I pass by a kindergarten / activity place for kids on my way to buy groceries.I can see them playing Fortnite and Roblox on the computers, so PC gaming certainly isn't dead from that perspective.

[Xstein.2187]

@crepuscular.9047 said:not surprised... the amount of revenue generated from GW2 is nothing comparable to Lineage2 according to past earnings

that's why BUY MORE GEMS WITH YOUR REAL CASH

i remember back in the older days, gems costs heaps in comparison to the amount of liquid gold in the economy, but the exchange rate probably have not gone up hand-in-hand with the amount of liquid gold that grew within the economy

I would pay a ton of money for new PvP content. However, the reality is there hasn't been any new PvP game modes since HoT over 3 years ago. Could you imagine no PvE content for over 3 years?Right now, why would any PvP players buy gems? However, that is not to say that there couldn't be items worth buying for PvP players in the future.In fact, that's prob what they are trying to do with the WvW mount. They are finally trying to make money between expansions besides skins or items for PvEers. However, I don't really know how the new WvW mount will work or how you will get access to it.

This is a bad situation for everyone. However, hopefully there will be brighter days after the next expansion and they will be able to rehire and expand once again if everything turns out.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Worse case scenario, we could try to do some massive crowdfunding and buy the game from NCSoft, and keep it running as a non-profit. Kind of like Myst Online.

"Try" being the key word there.

[Kaliwenda.3428]

I'm sorry to hear this, my heart goes out to everyone affected. :'(

[OutOfOrder.3719]

Having content for players to always do is what keeps gamers to stick around for years. Just for game enjoyment and nostalgia.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I wonder....if the game was in danger of going down, would players be more accepting of a subscription-model?Would that 'save' Guild Wars2 and/or ArenaNet?

[ambitiouscatgeek.2430]

Have people pay for pvp or wvw type expansions instead of releasing things for free. I know it sounds stupid but if it's money they want, they'll definitely get it that way.

I really am kind of freaking out about this though honestly. I'm worried for the future of the game as well as the entire gaming industry. This game has gotten me through some tough times in my life as I know it has with countless other people. This community is freaking amazing and I'd rather not see it go away. :/

[alcopaul.2156]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I wonder....if the game was in danger of going down, would players be more accepting of a subscription-model?Would that 'save' Guild Wars2 and/or ArenaNet?

big time GW2 streamers on twitch.tv can mass buy accounts and make them rewards in their streaming contests.

coz rewarding gems or gold, with monetary value close to buying an account (or more), do not add players to the game.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I wonder....if the game was in danger of going down, would players be more accepting of a subscription-model?Would that 'save' Guild Wars2 and/or ArenaNet?

I probably would, but most players entered Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 because of the promise of no timely fees. I think a decision to go subscription would be devastating, if only for this broken promise of no timely fees and the bad press that this would give.

The freemium model with the expansions and gem store is still a business model that makes the most sense I think. Especially for our community.

[Tiviana.2650]

@ambitiouscatgeek.2430 said:Have people pay for pvp or wvw type expansions instead of releasing things for free. I know it sounds stupid but if it's money they want, they'll definitely get it that way.

I really am kind of freaking out about this though honestly. I'm worried for the future of the game as well as the entire gaming industry. This game has gotten me through some tough times in my life as I know it has with countless other people. This community is freaking amazing and I'd rather not see it go away. :/

Honestly i felt the same about wow, it got me through some of the hardest times of my life with guild mates and friends i played with for years. Its all gone now but we survive , and move on.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Here's a copy of a statement from ArenaNet:ArenaNet confirmed that some staff reduction was planned, though the number to be affected was not specified.

"We can confirm that due to the cancellation of unannounced projects, ArenaNet will make staff reductions," the statement reads. "This is part of a larger organizational restructuring within NCSOFT in the west, but the Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 game services will not be affected, nor is any upcoming game content canceled."

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-02-21-arenanet-reportedly-bracing-for-mass-layoffs

[OutOfOrder.3719]

I do buy from the gemstore, and even black lion keys when they go on sale. But I'm referring to the majority of the player base that normally does not make gem purchases. The free to play type that only play for content in general.

For example, since the majority of my time I spend playing PvP, WvW and Fractals, I typically do not buy mount skins.

However, I have made at least 10 outfit or armor purchases in the last 2 years since I can display them in PvP or other areas of the game.

[Jura.2170]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:_"We can confirm that due to the cancellation of unannounced projects

I hope it doesn't mean the 3rd expansion pack

[Tyson.5160]

@Xstein.2187 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@OutOfOrder.3719 said:Hopefully this is a wake up call that producing more gemstore skins does not generate significant Revenue in the long run. Or perhaps your price model of 2000 gems is ridiciously over Priced.

Do you have the stats for this?

Creating end game content has always been where MMO's have had the most success.

Keep developing PvP, WvW, Raids, Fractals. And actually introduce a new game type Guild Vs Guild utilizing the PvP rune/amulet system already.

Actually if things are going to get cut it will be the PvP, WvW and Raids... I’m not expecting that this is the case right now, but if it ever got that bad, the items that don’t make money will not get development time, kinda like what is currently happening.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. One individual who wants legendary armor but doesn't want to raid would pay big bucks for converting gems to gold to pay for clears and achievements. I don't think you have stats for this either.

p.s. gems price isn't the issue. They can change gem store item prices however they like and conversion costs are always set by supply and demand.

Not saying Raids would get deleted, but development on future wings would cease. You would still have people converting gems for Legendary Armor for example, but hypothetically you could see the devs cease Raids production after Wing 7 and the raid Legendary ring is finished. For the continuation of products like Expansions, living world and mount skins.

Ya, I know what you are saying, I just disagree with your reasoning for why. Just because raids only attract a small portion of the player base doesn't necessarily mean it makes a smaller percent of gem income. It could, but you don't know this. For all you know, much of their gem income could come from a small percent of the player base that spends lots of money for clears, achievements, and raid skins through gem/gold conversion.

When comes down to it, if I had to make a choice between Expansions/Living World and Raids, I would have to choose the former. I don’t have the exact stats, but I’m sure most people would make the same choice.

[BlueJin.4127]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Here's a copy of a statement from ArenaNet:ArenaNet confirmed that some staff reduction was planned, though the number to be affected was not specified.

"We can confirm that due to the cancellation of unannounced projects, ArenaNet will make staff reductions," the statement reads. "This is part of a larger organizational restructuring within NCSOFT in the west, but the Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 game services will not be affected, nor is any upcoming game content canceled."

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-02-21-arenanet-reportedly-bracing-for-mass-layoffs

I was thinking it was something like this. As I said, companies hire and release people constantly. But since the public doesn’t know about it, people panic when they do hear about one event that is actually not out of the ordinary. Good to hear confirmation it’s nothing to worry about. Thank you for the info.

Still feel bad for anybody let go due to cancellation. It sucks for all those involved.

[tom.4051]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I wonder....if the game was in danger of going down, would players be more accepting of a subscription-model?Would that 'save' Guild Wars2 and/or ArenaNet?

No, WvW players would abandon the game knowing all the money would be going to more bad PvE!

[Tyson.5160]

Thank Dwayna.

[Xstein.2187]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@OutOfOrder.3719 said:Hopefully this is a wake up call that producing more gemstore skins does not generate significant Revenue in the long run. Or perhaps your price model of 2000 gems is ridiciously over Priced.

Do you have the stats for this?

Creating end game content has always been where MMO's have had the most success.

Keep developing PvP, WvW, Raids, Fractals. And actually introduce a new game type Guild Vs Guild utilizing the PvP rune/amulet system already.

Actually if things are going to get cut it will be the PvP, WvW and Raids... I’m not expecting that this is the case right now, but if it ever got that bad, the items that don’t make money will not get development time, kinda like what is currently happening.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. One individual who wants legendary armor but doesn't want to raid would pay big bucks for converting gems to gold to pay for clears and achievements. I don't think you have stats for this either.

p.s. gems price isn't the issue. They can change gem store item prices however they like and conversion costs are always set by supply and demand.

Not saying Raids would get deleted, but development on future wings would cease. You would still have people converting gems for Legendary Armor for example, but hypothetically you could see the devs cease Raids production after Wing 7 and the raid Legendary ring is finished. For the continuation of products like Expansions, living world and mount skins.

Ya, I know what you are saying, I just disagree with your reasoning for why. Just because raids only attract a small portion of the player base doesn't necessarily mean it makes a smaller percent of gem income. It could, but you don't know this. For all you know, much of their gem income could come from a small percent of the player base that spends lots of money for clears, achievements, and raid skins through gem/gold conversion.

When comes down to it, if I had to make a choice between Expansions/Living World and Raids, I would have to choose the former. I don’t have the exact stats, but I’m sure most people would make the same choice.

If it was a zero sum game, I would agree with you. However, the raid team makes up a very small percent of the staff compared to the living world and expansion teams. Getting rid of the raid team would not be the same as getting rid of the living world team. The numbers are totally different. I agree with you that most enjoy the living story a lot more. However, simplified hypothetically, as a company if you had 100 people paying $5 a month and 2 paying $500 a month, what are you going to do?