Danikat.8537 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 For all we know these projects were going no where and by ordering them ended NCSoft was just telling Anet what they should have already known. It's really not that uncommon for creative projects (or any type of project) to hit a dead end where no matter how much of a cool idea it seems it's just not going to work in practice and throwing more time and money at it won't achieve anything.I don't know of course, because we don't know anything about what they were working on. But I think it would be incredibly short-sighted for NCSoft to pull the plug on a project that was going well just because it hadn't made any money yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxxDelta.1806 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 @Danikat.8537 said:But I think it would be incredibly short-sighted for NCSoft to pull the plug on a project that was going well just because it hadn't made any money yet.This industry, in its current form, isn't known to be far sighted. I remember Activision/Bungie's long term plans about the original Destiny, only to see Destiny 2 being released a couple years later.Stockholders are notoriously short-sighted since their primary concern is hitting quarterly targets. If the most cost effective way to do that is axing that project, it will get the axe with no regard to long-term potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasculio.2914 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The problem is: they aren't masters of their own destiny. They are part of the NCSOFT corporation and that firm's stockholders have higher expectations for profits than NCSOFT can deliver. So NCSOFT has to shred costs fast. We don't really know that.NCSoft may have cancelled ArenaNet's projects because they needed a better quarterly report now so they cut all possible costs.Or, NCSoft may have cancelled ArenaNet's projects because said projects had been going nowhere for years, had been a waste of resources, and it was time someone told ArenaNet to stop and do something more productive. Like investing more in GW2, instead of removing resources from GW2 to help with the secondary projects.Facing the facts, it's hard to paint NCSoft as the villains in this story, considering how little we know.@"Healix.5819" said:ArenaNet did. They were specifically hiring for "future projects" related to MMO development, or at least online gaming.Well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 @Firebeard.1746 said:Seriously? I was super stoked when I heard Arenanet was starting a new MMO a year or so ago, even though I hadn't been on GW2 for a while, because I really like Arenanet. I bet tons of players would have come out of the woodwork to contribute if you asked for funding for your new project & the current development. And I bet tons of active players would have contributed as well if you just let them know that you were in dire straits. Also, I'm super sad we lost Josh Foreman. Wasn't he the brain behind SAB? Like you guys NEVER should have fired him. I'm sad SAB will never get finished...Also, losing the next MMO project may be a nail in the coffin of Arena net. Game companies need to innovate and push new content if they want their revenue to grow. Yes, it's painful when you're taking that initial development cost hit, but those costs are necessary for the long-term health of your company and the games you release.How come you know so much about those unannounced projects, where are you getting this from?.. it's feasible they were working on the next MMO, but was that some big news somewhere since the layoffs??? - possible as I don't tend to keep a hang on the twitter twatter stuff or the reddit reelings.As for JF.. yip sad loss for sure, but no more sad than all the other talented employees that also got let go or decided to fall on their own swords as we know happened.I am guessing when you mention fundraising you mean crowdfund the projects like many smaller studios or start ups do.. interesting proposition but unlikely to get the vote from NC Soft or their various investors.As for players contributing, they did, they do.. you can still - buy gems and use the store... all that goes into the business coffers, just like a crowdfund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 @Erasculio.2914 said:@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The problem is: they aren't masters of their own destiny. They are part of the NCSOFT corporation and that firm's stockholders have higher expectations for profits than NCSOFT can deliver. So NCSOFT has to shred costs fast. We don't really know that.NCSoft may have cancelled ArenaNet's projects because they needed a better quarterly report now so they cut all possible costs.Or, NCSoft may have cancelled ArenaNet's projects because said projects had been going nowhere for years, had been a waste of resources, and it was time someone told ArenaNet to stop and do something more productive. Like investing more in GW2, instead of removing resources from GW2 to help with the secondary projects.Facing the facts, it's hard to paint NCSoft as the villains in this story, considering how little we know.@"Healix.5819" said:ArenaNet did. They were specifically hiring for "future projects" related to MMO development, or at least online gaming.Well...The facts were made clear.. NC Soft announced declining revenues across their whole portfolio and could no longer continue to carry ANET's headcount and new project development costs so they were pushed to make the decisions they did.. it's a fact of business sometimes.But I think Ilc neither painted NC Soft as the villain or ANET.. its just business sometimes is hard and cruel.. you could even blame us players to no little extent for not spending more, but yeah only those who own or are paid to manage and act on specific business data know the full story, everything else is just heresay, a reverberating echo that seemingly wont go away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasculio.2914 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:The facts were made clear.. NC Soft announced declining revenues across their whole portfolio No, they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 @Erasculio.2914 said:@"Bloodstealer.5978" said:The facts were made clear.. NC Soft announced declining revenues across their whole portfolio No, they didn't.Yes they did …https://kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuinetheo.6591 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Are you able to find the gem shop while in the game? Cause that's where all the fundraising for players comes from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasculio.2914 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 @Bloodstealer.5978 said:@Erasculio.2914 said:@Bloodstealer.5978 said:The facts were made clear.. NC Soft announced declining revenues across their whole portfolio No, they didn't.Yes they did …https://kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804Nope, not "across their whole portfolio". As the earning report linked above shows, Lineage 2 was selling more quarter-per-quarter, and Aion was selling more year-per-year. You are reading the e-mail sent to ArenaNet as if it were talking about the whole of NCSoft. From the text of the e-mail sent to ArenaNet:“Our live game business revenue is declining as our franchises age, delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects, while our operating costs in the west have increased”So yeah, Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 are aging, the development of the other ArenaNet projects ("on PC and mobile") had suffered delays, and ArenaNet had been increasing costs while not releasing said new projects.In other words, it wasn't a matter of NCSoft cutting expenses everywhere to have a better quarterly report. ArenaNet had been floundering and needed to be redirected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Fundraising has some not so small problems. First, you need to tell people you ask for money about the goal the money will be spent on. No, "a new project, can't tell you details yet" is not enough (and not only because asking people to pay blindly for something they don't know anything about is generally far less succesful, but also because the backlash when the people realize that what they thought the project will be and what the project turned out to be is different can be really massive). Second, once you get the money, you need to keep your promises (yes, i know there's a well known example of a game that is getting a lot of cash for things that not only do not exist, but are almost certainly will be far less glorious than advertised - assuming they will ever be made - but there's actually a special term for this kind of "business" and it isn't a positive one). If you won't keep your promises (because project turned out to be a failure, like many game projects do, or because the end result didn't match up to hype), it's going to be a mess. Not only people will be angry due to unfulfilled promises, but they will also (rightly) feel cheated out of their money. That's not a recipe for a succesful business.Yes, kickstarters are a thing, but big businesses generally only run them for things they are practically certain to be able to deliver. I don't think Anet's side projects were so close to completion - if they were, they probably wouldn't have gotten axed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 @Erasculio.2914 said:@Bloodstealer.5978 said:@Erasculio.2914 said:@Bloodstealer.5978 said:The facts were made clear.. NC Soft announced declining revenues across their whole portfolio No, they didn't.Yes they did …https://kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804Nope, not "across their whole portfolio". As the earning report linked above shows, Lineage 2 was selling more quarter-per-quarter, and Aion was selling more year-per-year. You are reading the e-mail sent to ArenaNet as if it were talking about the whole of NCSoft. From the text of the e-mail sent to ArenaNet:“Our live game business revenue is declining as our franchises age, delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects, while our operating costs in the west have increased”So yeah, Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 are aging, the development of the other ArenaNet projects ("on PC and mobile") had suffered delays, and ArenaNet had been increasing costs while not releasing said new projects.In other words, it wasn't a matter of NCSoft cutting expenses everywhere to have a better quarterly report. ArenaNet had been floundering and needed to be redirected. Read the whole article AGAIN.. this is not just ANET specific it is outlining the issues the business is seeing in its revenue / forecasts.If anything your quarterlies tell the same story.. stagnnat and/or declingn sales across all franchises.. GW1 does not even come into that equation at this point and likely not for sometime - GW1 and GW2 are ANET products, who are a franchise within the NC Soft Group, but they are not the only one... hence CEO Yoon specifically states business revenue is declining as our franchises age"Take a look at that the last paragraph from that article below- Songyee Yoon, the CEO of Korean publisher NCSoft West, which owns ArenaNet, e-mailed employees this afternoon with the news. “Our live game business revenue is declining as our franchises age, delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects, while our operating costs in the west have increased,” she wrote. “Where we are is not sustainable, and is not going to set us up for future success.”Yoon added that the company plans to “cut costs across the organization” and restructure across the board, merging ArenaNet and NCSoft’s publishing divisions in the process. “The restructuring, cost-cutting, and strategic realignments are all being done to secure our tomorrow and to provide the foundation that will allow us to grow and acquire,” she wrote.Later this afternoon, ArenaNet CEO Mike O’Brien plans to meet with staff to discuss the layoffs further.Around 400 people work at ArenaNet, and for the past few years they’ve been working on a number of unannounced projects, according to one person familiar with goings-on at the company. However, that person said, slow development progress combined with a lack of new games in 2018 and 2019 has led to a financial squeeze. ArenaNet’s last release, the Path of Fire expansion for Guild Wars 2, launched in September 2017. This news comes in the wake of widespread cost-cutting measures at NCSoft. Last September, NCSoft shut down Wildstar developer Carbine Studios, and earlier this year it began plans to reduce staff at the mobile studio Iron Tiger. In its financial earnings call earlier this week, NCSoft reported an annual decline in PC revenue.This is part of a business wide cost down initiative and unfortunately for ANET it was suffering from "stable" sales.. which might be considered stagnant, compounded by a bulging headcount and inflated costs from new product development delays.Thankfully it did not suffer the same fate as Carbine.. and lets hope it doesn't suffer further.My personal conclusion, my opinion, is that blame should not be laid at NC Soft or any specific franchise, person, customer.. its a combination of all likely hampered by global issues way beyond anyone's control and NC Soft had to take actions across the whole organisation or risk further harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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