Mesmer Patch-Preview

[Curunen.8729]

@bennypig.6428 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Daishi.6027" said:Biggest disappointment for me is 35 on Illusionary Ambush, like lol okay. Just drop 15 seconds on it I guess, were people having that much trouble finding the real one? I guess they didn't like people taking that instead of portal.The stupidest thing is that overall and compared to a targeted blink or the "high" 25s cd skills, its randomness was weighed up by its low cd. You could end up anywhere, teleporting into walls instead of on top or end up facing the wrong direction or inside zergs, but it was worth the chance. At 35s cd, its feels pointless to consider taking.

Yeah absolutely - sometimes it doesn't move you much at all which is a problem if using it to avoid a melee cleave. Nevermind that it is also fairly weak without 3 clones out.

I see IA as the equivalent of Steal, however by itself IA is pretty harmless as an offensive tool (aside from gs ambush which hits immediately) and requires follow up of some other movement and shatter combo to do anything. Defensively it still has a rng chance to kitten up with bad placement.

Sure I was expecting it to go to 25/30s. But 35s? Lol why when you can take signet of midnight at 30s. And I guess the mc on it is also going to be 0.75s?

IA is not only a blink. It comes with very strong utilities. Evade, break target, and ambush skill gained by the player and clones. You said that it is not so good as a gap closer, but with power build it can be comboed with sword ambush or gs ambush. With condi build you can follow it by axe 3, or scepter 3, or jaunt. How is it useless as a gap closer?For example, roll for initiative(meta utility for S/D thief) gives evade, initiative point and stunbreak has a CD of 40s. I guess you condi mirage main have to actually learn to see enemy animation to dodge, decide what to dodge, time your skill, but not just rotate your CD. Just like me as a thief main, if i miss one steal to mirage in duel on a point, i lose. Do you condi mirage have the same problem? Now i would say it condi mirage now actually requires more skill to use but still very strong. Spamming skill is not a winning strat now.

Following IA up with axe 3 is not common unless I want to force a dodge to eat the follow up burst - because it also wastes two important defensive detargets/evades in quick succession, and as only having prestige (which is also unreliable/fails a lot on axe mirage due to additional phantasmal axe from axe trait delayed hit breaking it immediately unless making distance and not attacking with axe for at least a second before using. Nevermind reflect anti synergy with this) this opens a window of vulnerability.

Jaunt is long in cooldown now so usually better to save what is likely only 1 charge (most of the time) for a juke or something else.

Aside from that I personally don't have any burst following IA. Staff ambush is a case of walk/dodge away from it. So tbh it can be considered more of a defensive utility, to buy a few seconds with detargrt (rng and clones permitting - as said sometimes you get nothing and immediately pressured again).

Personally after this change I see it as Blink/SoM just as it used to be years ago with Blink/Decoy.

For the record I would have been fine with IA at 25 or 30s (it was 30s in pof beta iirc), to be in the ball park of blink, SoM, StG etc. I just think 35 is excessive given its unreliability.

[phokus.8934]

Power Chrono will probably be the go to spec when the balance update hits. Scepter/Torch/GS, Sword/Torch/GS or even Sword/Focus/GS could be really good variants with Lost Time.

Maybe some form of Chronobunker as well but we’ll see.

[Edgewalker.5963]

I have no experience with Mesmer and little experience in WvW in general, but I was going to start running Mirage condi roamer soon. Do you think the build will now become obsolete, or will replacing Axe with Scepter be enough? Or perhaps the class will have to be built more as a hybrid?

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

The mc change to 0.75 was one of the requested nerfs this past months, will dig up quotes when I've time.Once again ANet caved in to some wrong people.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

Is Mesmer the only class getting 100% nerfs and no buffs in this update? That's fine if the "mesmer too much everything" narrative stops, but something tells me it won't.

I am a bit concerned about being able to get out of AOEs with the change to MC. I've dealt with some pretty oppressive Scourges lately who seem to be able to blanket huge areas with giant red circles, chain dropping them on me and in my path as I'm trying to run away.

They really need to give us Jaunt back.

They also need to just replace EM already.

Soulbeast is starting to look better and better. At least it gets to be stupidly OP without much of the community complaining about it.

[Sodeni.6041]

I like the changes overall, they should bring mirage more in line with other specs in PvP and balance things out better.

However, I would like to see Dune Cloak and Elusive mind (especially with the changedexhaustion mechanic on daredevil) to be looked at. Breaking a one second daze with EM should not give the same amount of exhaustion as breaking out of a 3 second headbutt stun for example.

I also think reducing the superspeed time on dodge is good. It will now be (again) hard to get out of AoEs as a mirage, same as pre PoF or early PoF days.

[Sodeni.6041]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Great, first the absolute gutting of jaunt cooldown and now gutting of illusionary ambush, one of the skills that allowed you to actually chase other high mobility roaming classes in WvW.

I also find the reasoning for the mirage cloak nerf ridiculous. That's almost worse than purity of purpose. Almost.

I always wanted to have illusionary ambush to be a F5 skill for the mirage so even people without infinite horizon could get all their clones to do an ambush once in a while. It would also fit the mirage theme very well because of the "deception" aspect on the skill and enemy's target breaking.

[Heartpains.7312]

Whatever, mesmers only seem to be seeing nerfs .... random nerfs even, and random un needed buffs like scepter 2. I went through the skills to see something that is interesting instead of illusionary ambush, not much there ><

Maybe make Mirage advance instant cast and the return is the one that have cast time? just kidding that will also get nerfed.And don't you dare to try chrono, they will nerf that too. =p

[Quadox.7834]

@phokus.8934 said:Power Chrono will probably be the go to spec when the balance update hits. Scepter/Torch/GS, Sword/Torch/GS or even Sword/Focus/GS could be really good variants with Lost Time.

Maybe some form of Chronobunker as well but we’ll see.

In what gamemode do you mean?

[Levetty.1279]

People complained that Mirage was too strong in PvP so they nerfed its ability to avoid aoe spam in PvE? Makes sense. Once again Mirage has a worse dodge and its elite spec mechanic is a detriment.

I hope at least Chorno isn't hit too hard by these changes.

[phokus.8934]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@phokus.8934 said:Power Chrono will probably be the go to spec when the balance update hits. Scepter/Torch/GS, Sword/Torch/GS or even Sword/Focus/GS could be really good variants with Lost Time.

Maybe some form of Chronobunker as well but we’ll see.

In what gamemode do you mean?

Pvp and to some extent, wvw.

[Levetty.1279]

And while we are on the topic of Mirage, now that Cry of frustration is nerfed and useless again, can we buff non shatter mirage damage up after it was nerfed for this build. I mean it will still die to any random aoe attack but it would be something.

[Quadox.7834]

@phokus.8934 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@phokus.8934 said:Power Chrono will probably be the go to spec when the balance update hits. Scepter/Torch/GS, Sword/Torch/GS or even Sword/Focus/GS could be really good variants with Lost Time.

Maybe some form of Chronobunker as well but we’ll see.

In what gamemode do you mean?

Pvp and to some extent, wvw.

Chrono bunker is untouched or buffed in PvP, while power chrono will be nerfed. Not sure why you think power chrono would then be meta after patch in PvP?

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Turk.5460 said:Just make it .75s like every other profession's dodge key. The extra .25s is the biggest problem with Mirage Cloak by far.

@Safandula.8723 said:And BTW mirage cloak last for 1 sec. Bit to much

Vallun balance suggestion video also focused on mc time.

And turns out devs check mesmer forums but for the worst reasons:

@Cardolan.9123 said:

Mirage CloakPreventing the mirage from using it while CC'd is unlikely, I think some of its coding is related to Distortion which can always be used while CC'd. However it's possible to change its duration since it was buffed from 0.75s to 1s before, and it's also possible to put exhausion on it since they just need to copy the Elusive Mind coding and remove the stunbreak & condi cleanse effect.

Can't be bothered to look for more, but I remember I and some others answered the why MC was 1sec a kittenton of times.

[apharma.3741]

• Cry of Pain: The number of confusion stacks that this trait allows Cry of Frustration to apply has been decreased from 2 to 1 in all game modes.• Ineptitude: The confusion duration of this trait has been reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW.

Not a fan of these changes, confusion isn't a big issue for players to play around and the duration of most confusion is incredibly low while needing stacks over 5 to start competing with any form of power damage. At 1400 condition damage 1 stack of confusion does 186 damage per skill activation so at 5 stacks about 930 per skill use but only lasts 3s. Haven't we gutted confusion enough?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Confusion

Exhaustion I said was a poor mechanic when it was applied to thief, I stand by that for Elusive Mind and even more so now with it now stacking. I feel so sorry for thieves.

Illusionary Ambush is a bit of an over nerf, I'd have put it at 30 personally but considering no nerfs to other classes PoF power creep I'd have put it to 25.

Imaginary Axes change about time but I'd also like to see torment removed as it's still going to either be super good or super bad while roflstomping brainlets that don't learn to cleanse intelligently.

Why not make Signet of humility 120s IN ALL GAME MODES?!? It's already considered bad in PvP/WvW at 6s duration and giving a free evade and extra movement speed.

Edit: By now we can really see that they like nerfing mesmer across game modes (I do agree with some of the nerfs mind you) but aren't extending the PvP nerfs from other classes to WvW? Can we please get PvP nerfs carried over to WvW FOR ALL CLASSES!

[Turk.5460]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Can't be bothered to look for more, but I remember I and some others answered the why MC was 1sec a kittenton of times.

Fantastic, that doesn't mean that it truly needed to be 1s. ANET's reasoning for the change were identical to the reasons I gave in that thread in pretty much every way.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@apharma.3741 said:

Exhaustion I said was a poor mechanic when it was applied to thief, I stand by that for Elusive Mind and even more so now with it now stacking. I feel so sorry for thieves.

Don't be, at least for now, it depends on the interpretation.My interpretation is that if you remove the 3 MICs you get 9sec exhaustion. But according to thieves the maximum amount is 4 sec, which makes kind of sense because it was suggested on a thief thread that it should depend on the MIC removed, so all in all it's a buff.

@Turk.5460 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Can't be bothered to look for more, but I remember I and some others answered the why MC was 1sec a kittenton of times.

Fantastic, that doesn't mean that it truly needed to be 1s. ANET's reasoning for the change were identical to the reasons I gave in that thread in pretty much every way.

When certain ambushes are more than 1 sec cast time and axe 2 is trash that needs to be covered, 1 sec mc is doomed to fail.That's not to mention the distance walked, which is now shorter.

[apharma.3741]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

Exhaustion I said was a poor mechanic when it was applied to thief, I stand by that for Elusive Mind and even more so now with it now stacking. I feel so sorry for thieves.

Don't be, at least for now, it depends on the interpretation.My interpretation is that if you remove the 3 MICs you get 9sec exhaustion. But according to thieves the maximum amount is 4 sec, which makes kind of sense because it was suggested on a thief thread that it should depend on the MIC removed, so all in all it's a buff.

• Unhindered Combatant: The duration of exhaustion that this trait applies when dodging is now 2 seconds if crippled is present, 3 seconds if chilled is present, and 4 seconds if immobilized is present. Exhaustion will now be applied when the dodge is initiated.

To me it means that given the prevalence of certain conditions it's made UC worse vs necro in general as you're likely to be hit by a 5s exhaustion hit per dodge. To put it bluntly you will have no regen from vigor at all. Ele will shut down your dodge regen with chill because they have double passive frost aura on their support build so that's now 6s exhaustion.

It's basically increasing the punishment from exhaustion for thieves and mesmers on certain traits and as I said exhaustion in my opinion is a really poor mechanic.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

Exhaustion I said was a poor mechanic when it was applied to thief, I stand by that for Elusive Mind and even more so now with it now stacking. I feel so sorry for thieves.

Don't be, at least for now, it depends on the interpretation.My interpretation is that if you remove the 3 MICs you get 9sec exhaustion. But according to thieves the maximum amount is 4 sec, which makes kind of sense because it was suggested on a thief thread that it should depend on the MIC removed, so all in all it's a buff.

• Unhindered Combatant: The duration of exhaustion that this trait applies when dodging is now 2 seconds if crippled is present, 3 seconds if chilled is present, and 4 seconds if immobilized is present. Exhaustion will now be applied when the dodge is initiated.

To me it means that given the prevalence of certain conditions it's made UC worse vs necro in general as you're likely to be hit by a 5s exhaustion hit per dodge. To put it bluntly you will have no regen from vigor at all. Ele will shut down your dodge regen with chill because they have double passive frost aura on their support build so that's now 6s exhaustion.

It's basically increasing the punishment from exhaustion for thieves and mesmers on certain traits and as I said exhaustion in my opinion is a really poor mechanic.

I've the same interpretation as you.

But according to thieves, if cripple is removed you get 2 seconds of exhaustion, if cripple and chilled are removed or just chilled - you get 3 seconds and if immobilize you get 4 sec independently if other MICs are present. In this view it's a buff because you get lesser overall exhaustion.Their interpretation makes sense considering that the change was suggested like that.

TBH I would prefer my interpretation out of the two, I don't think UC needs a buff. Thief already bypass a ton of mechanics on these game.

[apharma.3741]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

Exhaustion I said was a poor mechanic when it was applied to thief, I stand by that for Elusive Mind and even more so now with it now stacking. I feel so sorry for thieves.

Don't be, at least for now, it depends on the interpretation.My interpretation is that if you remove the 3 MICs you get 9sec exhaustion. But according to thieves the maximum amount is 4 sec, which makes kind of sense because it was suggested on a thief thread that it should depend on the MIC removed, so all in all it's a buff.

• Unhindered Combatant: The duration of exhaustion that this trait applies when dodging is now 2 seconds if crippled is present, 3 seconds if chilled is present, and 4 seconds if immobilized is present. Exhaustion will now be applied when the dodge is initiated.

To me it means that given the prevalence of certain conditions it's made UC worse vs necro in general as you're likely to be hit by a 5s exhaustion hit per dodge. To put it bluntly you will have no regen from vigor at all. Ele will shut down your dodge regen with chill because they have double passive frost aura on their support build so that's now 6s exhaustion.

It's basically increasing the punishment from exhaustion for thieves and mesmers on certain traits and as I said exhaustion in my opinion is a really poor mechanic.

I've the same interpretation as you.

But according to thieves, if cripple is removed you get 2 seconds of exhaustion, if cripple and chilled are removed or just chilled - you get 3 seconds and if immobilize you get 4 sec independently if other MICs are present. In this view it's a buff because you get lesser overall exhaustion.Their interpretation makes sense considering that the change was suggested like that.

TBH I would prefer my interpretation out of the two, I don't think UC needs a buff. Thief already bypass a ton of mechanics on these game.

I don't think it will work like that, I think it will essentially apply a stack of exhaustion per condition removed so removing all 3 hits you with 9s. At least it would then be on par with EM :lol:

[whoknocks.4935]

I am a wvw player and multiclasser, let's be honest the changes are good, but not even close to what mirage really needed in terms of nerfs.

Nobody run axe anymore when roaming, scepter is the way to go, staff too.None of those 2 weapons received a single nerf or change.

IH still untouched, dodge while CC'd still possible, clone spam still possible, perma reflect on evade still possible.Mirage cloak and the other things long 0.75secs would have a minimal impact and condi mirage will be still top 1vs1 brainless roamer, same as boonbeast.

None of the other specs received a buff, so the situation won't change at all and we will still see bad players abusing trailblazer to feel pro.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

Exhaustion I said was a poor mechanic when it was applied to thief, I stand by that for Elusive Mind and even more so now with it now stacking. I feel so sorry for thieves.

Don't be, at least for now, it depends on the interpretation.My interpretation is that if you remove the 3 MICs you get 9sec exhaustion. But according to thieves the maximum amount is 4 sec, which makes kind of sense because it was suggested on a thief thread that it should depend on the MIC removed, so all in all it's a buff.

• Unhindered Combatant: The duration of exhaustion that this trait applies when dodging is now 2 seconds if crippled is present, 3 seconds if chilled is present, and 4 seconds if immobilized is present. Exhaustion will now be applied when the dodge is initiated.

To me it means that given the prevalence of certain conditions it's made UC worse vs necro in general as you're likely to be hit by a 5s exhaustion hit per dodge. To put it bluntly you will have no regen from vigor at all. Ele will shut down your dodge regen with chill because they have double passive frost aura on their support build so that's now 6s exhaustion.

It's basically increasing the punishment from exhaustion for thieves and mesmers on certain traits and as I said exhaustion in my opinion is a really poor mechanic.

I've the same interpretation as you.

But according to thieves, if cripple is removed you get 2 seconds of exhaustion, if cripple and chilled are removed or just chilled - you get 3 seconds and if immobilize you get 4 sec independently if other MICs are present. In this view it's a buff because you get lesser overall exhaustion.Their interpretation makes sense considering that the change was suggested like that.

TBH I would prefer my interpretation out of the two, I don't think UC needs a buff. Thief already bypass a ton of mechanics on these game.

I don't think it will work like that, I think it will essentially apply a stack of exhaustion per condition removed so removing all 3 hits you with 9s. At least it would then be on par with EM :lol:

Fingers crossed.

If indeed it will work like that, not only I will be relieved, I will also lmao at their suggestion backfiring.

[AliamRationem.5172]

I agree with much of what the others are saying. Here are my suggestions:

• Keep 1s super speed on Mirage Cloak to ensure that mirage doesn't lose mobility compared to the standard dodge effect.

• Increase Illusionary Ambush cooldown to 30s (not 35s).

• Give back the 3rd ammo count on jaunt.

• Increase the speed or reduce the duration of the axe 2 animation slightly to compensate for the loss of evade time on MC.

• Find a better way to handle Elusive Mind. Exhaustion makes this trait worthless.

[OriOri.8724]

Just shows that the balance team doesn't have a clue with mesmer. Stuff like this is why I no longer have fun playing the class. Instead of addressing any root balance issues, they just continuously nerf over and over, but since those root issues are never addressed, the nerfs are never enough

[apharma.3741]

@OriOri.8724 said:Just shows that the balance team doesn't have a clue with mesmer. Stuff like this is why I no longer have fun playing the class. Instead of addressing any root balance issues, they just continuously nerf over and over, but since those root issues are never addressed, the nerfs are never enough

Just play engineer!

You got rifle holo that's still good!You got prot holo that's going to beat everything!You're going to get scrapper that will allow you to support and do damage!

Engineer is all you need!