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Changes to improve mesmer (Buffs, Nerfs, QoL)


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Here are some things that could use a buff and the right things to nerf - according to the mesmer community.This is pvp/wvw oriented.

Feel free to add yours suggestions or share your thoughts (mesmer only community tho, no "knowledgeable community" allowed B) )

BUFFS:

Chronomancer

Give IP back, there's a reason IP was made baseline...Alternatively, by speccing chrono clones HP is highly increased. It is enough trade-off to have different (worse) shatters and no distortion. Most of other professions trade-offs are incredibly light in comparison.

Illusionary Reversion: this one was downright smiter's booned at 16/03/2017 and even become worse at the next nerf, could use a revert.

Wells: all of them except gravity and heal are useless, could use some rework or tweek, bigger radius or pulse the benefits or affect 10 people in wvw or something else.Lower heal well cd.

Shield

Echo of Memory : increase the aoe of the phantasm attack.

Tides of Time: this is controversial, some people prefer it this way, I find it incredible clunky to use. Revert while making not possible to fire backwards, alternatively nerf every other skill on game that can be fired backwards, gives 1sec alacrity and 1sec quickness on each way.

Mirage

Mirrors: Maintain the current funcionality and add the following, when foes pass through the mirror, the mirror breaks and deals damage, it adds counterplay to the mirrors while adding a mesmerish mindplay feature - "if I don't break the mirror the mesmer gains an evade, if I break it I'll get damaged but will null an evade".

Crystal Sands: rework into something, this is useless.

Mirage Advance: reduce the cast time, this being 3/4 not only is clunky to use it, doesn't allow any combo but also screams dodge me! There are similar skills on game that are instant. Edit: Alternatively put 1 or 2 seconds of quickness on it, so you can burst right after teleport.

Sand Through Glass: up the rollback range to 500 units, the mirror spawns at the end location or up the range 50 and maintain the mirror at the end, or reduce the cd, either way removes Immobilise to ensure you get away from the spawn mirror. Gets priority over other actions.

Illusionary Ambush: take out the randomness or lower the cd or get some trait to reduce deceptions' cds

Jaunt: back to 3 ammo or reduce cd to 20 sec, remove confusion from the skill if needed, no one cares about the confusion on jaunt, consider upping the range a bit in trade take out the damage.

Elusive Mind: take out exhaustion, cleanse 2 condis or 1 condi and -20% deception cds, alternatively cleanse 2 condis and grants +33% mirage cloak uptime.Increase ambush efficiency : doubles boons/conditions granted by ambush. Basically transfer the damage to mesmer himself. Alternatively Remove 1 Condition when creating a Mirage Mirror. Reduce the CD of Distortion by x seconds when gaining Mirage Cloak.

Self-Deception - Reduce cooldown on deceptions by 20%. Create a clone when deception is used.

Infinite Horizon: make IH baseline and a trait to compete with EM (changed), reason being ambushes are hard to balance with IH choice, they're either bad or good/op. WIth this you can nerf more approprietly ambushes.

Ambushes: reduce cast time on ambushes so they can fit inside or closer to the mirage cloak uptime. (.75 MC taked into account)

Merge Speed of Sands with Mirage Cloak, they're intrinsically dependent, at the current time it feels like each one is half a trait. Come up with a new minor grandmaster.

Axe

Lingering Thoughts: reduce cast time so it can be covered by mirage cloak, alternatively move evade frame from axe 3 to axe 2

Imaginary Axes: 67% damage nerf is an overkill. Replace torments for longer bleeds to allow damage to ramp up as conditions should be .

Mesmer

Evasive Mirror - rework into something, currently this is trash.

Blinding Dissipation - since you want to bind traits to specifics Fs, buff this in some way, this is currently trash.

Critical Infusion: revert, let nomad's endurance stay nerfed if needed. Precision is used by power mirages not by condi, so will get power mesmer some survivality.

Confounding Suggestions: Convert Diversion's daze into stun, maintain the daze uptime, some icd - so chronos can't abuse it, this way MoD and sword ambush can no longer proc the stun, good power mesmers always use f3 to setup the burst anyway...Increase diversion ammo to 2.

Rending Shatter: Vulnerability is increased to 2 stacks and time is reduced to 4 seconds.

Mental Anguish: Revert March 27, 2018 changes.

Fencer's finesse: Let's compare it to Swindler's Equilibrium, Silent Scope, Forceful Greatsword, this trait is clearly missing, it needs to hit 10 times to have the full benefit while the comparisons are pure passive traits. New trait would look like +120 Ferocity/power/precision; +120 additional ferocity/power/precision if wielding a sword; recharge reduced 20%.

Egotism - Replace it with a glamour trait.

Shattered Concentration - 2 boons removed instead of 1 (due to clone production reduction.).

Furious interruption - 1 sec icd instead of 3 (split for PVE if there are problem with this.).

Restorative Mantras - make the heal dependant of the mantra cooldown time and activate on mantra use instead of cast.

Protected Phantasms - phantasms give mesmer aegis after they get destroyed.

Signet of Humility - Reduce cd, since all transformations were reduced to 90, doesn't make much sense that the counter is still 180.

Time Warp - Make a glamour cd reduction trait.

Mass Invisibility - rework the anti-synergy between MI and Master of manipulation trait. Reduce CD to 50, if elixir s is fine the way it is consider lower MI cd to lower 30's. Alternatively give 2 ammo mechanic.

Decoy - reduce CD

Mirror Images - spawn and randomly split position the clones like IA

Decoy : remove the cancel activation time effect. (Aka don't get rupt when you are doing something.)

Arcane Thievery : Reduce Aftercast

Portal Entre : Bring back 60 sec duration but add 30 sec CD if portal Exeunt is used. Alternatively: Reduce the Max number of allies going through to 3 or even 2 and revert the duration nerf.

Signet of Inspiration: This needs to be based on what boons the Mesmer has.

Master of Manipulation - switch places with Bountiful Disillusionmentt, - 20% less cd on manipulation skills and improve the the following way:Mirror (heal):+2s reflectBlink: Breaks enemy targeting.Mimic: 50% reduced adjusted cooldown.Arcane Thievery: becomes an ammo skill with 2 charges (20s cooldown per charge).Illusion of Life: increased "alive" duration and provides some minor stat bonus (defensive or offensive).Mass Invis: removes reveal and outward radial pulse also hits up to 5 targets with 2s reveal (stealth your allies while briefly revealing enemies).

Chaotic Interruption - Take out the 5 cd reduction on random skill, replace it with 2 or 3 sec alacrity.

Greatsword

Mind Stab - Remove 3 boons, does damage per boons removed.

Illusionary Wave - The damage it does is neglectful - Reduce cd, hit on 180 degrees, consider uping the base damage too.

Staff

Phantasmal Warlock : summon only one illusion instead of two. Balance then the alone phantasm.

Chaos Armor - clean one condi on activation.

Scepter

Confusing Images - buff the condi damage.

Sword

Mind Slash, Mind Gash : add 1 more vulnerability stack.

Mind Spike : dispell 1 more boon. (get the 3rd chain in PvP is nearly impossible btw.)

Blurred Frenzy: reduce the number of attacks to 4 while mantaining the damage, same as pistol whip.

Illusionary Leap - Make clone invulnerable for 1 second before its could be killed. Clone has 2400 hp,too easy to kill before you can use swap which makes skill useless and unreliable.

Phantasmal Swordsman - another controversial one, some people like it this way, I find it useless, revert back to poke phantasm or attach an immobilise to the first hit. The phantasm bugs out on uneven terrain, needs a fix.

Focus

Temporal Curtain - remove the after cast as long as we are in a meta where many class have instant hard CC aoe or increase the wall duration to 6 sec.

Phantasmal Warden - can he not get killed himself by hitting a war with retaliation ? Increase damage coefficient and (increase phantasm HP or condensate the number of hits (while conserving the bubble duration.)).

====================================================================================================Nerfs

Mirage:

Replace torment with bleeding, take into account the damage and uptime to make sure it's well traded, this will make the profession less oppressive, you can now kite without taking damage and bleeding is overall easier to cleanse.

Mirage Cloak - a bit of controversial as well - MC can't be done while stunned.

False Oasis - Reduce scale with healing power slightly

====================================================================================================

QoL

Making every evade/block/dodge ability, instantly cancel any other action to cast itselfincluding : axe 3, sword 2, scept 2, Sand through Glass and propably some others i forget.

Make our abilities go off when someone runs behind us ( im looking at you scepter 3. ) even if beem seems co connect, the entire channel and animation goes throught but nothing happens, fix plz.

Staff ambush, against enemies on elevation sometimes just hits the wall or flies to the side, why ? fix please

Phantasms becoming clones faster after delivering attack, instead of standing still and staring into space.

Shield phantasm SUMMON is evadable, should be avengers attack, not summon itself ( denies clone too )

Clones attack nearest target instead of target of a spell on some instances.

Mirage thrust ( sword ambush misses ALOT, expecially when used from elevation, you just fly on top of someone and slowly fall down doing nothing )

Power Block is still bugged, fix it.

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@Turk.5460 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Feel free to add yours suggestions or share your thoughts (mesmer only community tho, no "knowledgeable community" allowed B) )

I didn't realize that this game restricted you to one profession.

I think he's looking for honest feedback from the people who dont have an extreme prejudice or bias and only want to nerf mes for the sake of their main class. Like some thief and ranger mains who jump into this subsection

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@Solori.6025 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Feel free to add yours suggestions or share your thoughts (mesmer only community tho, no "knowledgeable community" allowed B) )

I didn't realize that this game restricted you to one profession.

I think he's looking for honest feedback from the people who dont have an extreme prejudice or bias and only want to nerf mes for the sake of their main class. Like some thief and ranger mains who jump into this subsection

Many players on this subforum consider that anyone who suggest anything that is not a direct buff.

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@Turk.5460 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Feel free to add yours suggestions or share your thoughts (mesmer only community tho, no "knowledgeable community" allowed B) )

I didn't realize that this game restricted you to one profession.

I think he's looking for honest feedback from the people who dont have an extreme prejudice or bias and only want to nerf mes for the sake of their main class. Like some thief and ranger mains who jump into this subsection

Many players on this subforum consider that
anyone
who suggest anything that is not a direct buff.

This is true. However being part of this community ..instead of just dropping by to complain or disagree, you learn which members here takes suggestions and disagreements and actually wants to have a converaation vs who thinks the way you described.Which is why his request makes sense. At least to the people who actually care about the state of the class.

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Only going to comment on mirage and core from OP. Will add other things when thinking of them:

Mirage

Crystal Sands - yeah this is such a bad skill. Visually cool but absolutely pathetic effect, will never have a place on anyone's skill bar as it currently stands. Not got a solid idea off top of my head how to change, but open to anything.

Mirage Advance: I was testing this a bit thinking to swap IA out for it - given the Retreat part also has detarget. The one good part which I may not remember correctly but not sure if this used to be possible - it seems you can now move in any direction while casting it and it will still work, which is nice.But yeah the cast time together with 900 range and no evade really kills it. I think reducing the cast time to 0.5 or even 0.25s would make it more appealing as a start, then see if more people pick it up.

Sand Through Glass: I'm actually happy with how this functions - perfect distance to axe 2 back through the mirror. In my mind it's pretty much the equivalent of backwards dodge for mirage - but in the form of a utility skill. So in that respect all I'd consider is cooldown reduction maybe to 20s and see if more people use it. Maybe the distance could be increased by +50 units but not to be so much as out of range of axe 2 or Jaunt.

Illusionary Ambush: I think 30s base would be solid - as it was in pof demo before they reduced it to 20.

Jaunt: prefer reverting to 20s cooldown as in pve, rather than 3 ammo - maintains limit on initial engagement mobility but allows more regular use.

Elusive Mind: yeah I'd be a fan of replacing stunbreak with -20% cd on Deception skills, especially if Jaunt and IA cooldowns remain as planned to be. And leave the 1 condi removed per dodge as it is. Though at the moment I'd just take 1 condi cleanse and leave it at that. xD

Lingering Thoughts: at first was in favour of faster cast animation but now preferring evade frame moved from axe 3 to axe 2 - reasoning is easier to spend a dodge to cover the less frequent axe 3 (which also may not always need to be covered given the detarget and teleport), while turning axe 2 into axe's version of Blurred Frenzy. To limit evade can make evade duration 0.5s to cover first part of the animation, leaving the end vulnerable (a bit of counterplay).

Mesmer

Critical Infusion: hell yes should be reverted now. NE could also be reverted but I agree start with CI on core and see how it goes first.

Blurred Frenzy: "reduce the number of attacks to 4 while mantaining the damage, same as pistol whip" yeah this should have happened years ago.

Phantasmal Swordsman: I agree it's pretty useless so would be open to any improvements.

Confounding Suggestions: "Convert Diversion's daze into stun, maintain the daze uptime, some icd - so chronos can't abuse it, this way MoD and sword ambush can no longer proc the stun, good power mesmers always use f3 to setup the burst anyway..." That sounds a good solutions, would be open to it.

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@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Since mirage cloak is getting back at being the useless clunky kitten it was on beta, which once again will affect more power than condi. Here are some things that could use a buff.I know that this forums like more nerfs than buffs and buffs thread don't get as much feedback but still.This is pvp/wvw oriented.Feel free to add yours suggestions or share your thoughts (mesmer only community tho, no "knowledgeable community" allowed B) )

Chronomancer

Illusionary Reversion: this one was downright smiter's booned at 16/03/2017 and even become worse at the next nerf, could use a revert.

I agree

Tides of Time: this is controversial, some people prefer it this way, I find it incredible clunky to use and why can't it be fired backwards when some similar skills can? ranger gs4, dh's deflecting shot for example. Revert or make it be able to fire backwards.

Instead of a reversion. These other skills should be addressed to also not fire backwards or behind the character.

As for the new change I'll reserve my judgement but for the looks of it, it will become even clunkier.

We'll have to wait and see.

Wells: all of them except gravity and heal are useless, could use some rework or tweek, bigger radius or pulse the benefits or affect 10 people in wvw or something else.

They need to pulse throughout the duration of the well AND hit 10 targets. They are useless right now and chrono has lost most of its identity due to random and heavy handed nerfs.

Danger Time: if I understood right this one was nerf because it's good at pve, so why not split? Is it somehow forbidden to split mesmer skills? Because some of the chronomancer stuff was nerfed back then thanks to raids and were not splitted.Still this nerf will be more felt in pvp/wvw than in pve.

Probably, we'll have to see.

Mirage

Crystal Sands: rework into something, this is useless.

Agree 100%.

Mirage Advance: reduce the cast time, this being 3/4 not only is clunky to use it, doesn't allow any combo but also screams dodge me! There are similar skills on game that are instant.

Also agree

Sand Through Glass: up the rollback range to 500 units, the mirror spawns at the end location.

Good change and wouldn't be to hard to adjust

Illusionary Ambush: take out the randomness or lower the cd or get some trait to reduce deceptions' cds

I think 30s would be a good CD for the skill.

Jaunt: back to 3 ammo or reduce cd to 20 sec, remove confusion from the skill if needed, no one cares about the confusion on jaunt.

Jaunt should go back to 3 charges, remove the confusion, put at 20s.

Elusive Mind: take out exhaustion, cleanse 2 condis or 1 condi and -20% deception cds.

I think cleansing 2 conditions and adding something like a condition immunity while Superspeed is active would be good.I don't see them giving a CD reduction to deception skills. Gotta cater to the whiners somehow

Lingering Thoughts: reduce cast time so it can be covered by mirage cloak.

YesMesmer

Critical Infusion: revert, let nomad's endurance stay nerfed if needed. Precision is used by power mirages not by condi, so will get power mesmer some survivality.

? yesBlurred Frenzy: reduce the number of attacks to 4 while mantaining the damage, same as pistol whip.

GoodPhantasmal Swordsman: another controversial one, some people like it this way, I find it useless, revert back to poke phantasm or attach an immobilise to the first hit.

I honestly like it as isConfounding Suggestions: Convert Diversion's daze into stun, maintain the daze uptime, some icd - so chronos can't abuse it, this way MoD and sword ambush can no longer proc the stun, good power mesmers always use f3 to setup the burst anyway...

Good change though I think the ICD should be 25 or 30s as to reduce the frequency of the burst setup.

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@Curunen.8729 said:

Sand Through Glass: I'm actually happy with how this functions - perfect distance to axe 2 back through the mirror. In my mind it's pretty much the equivalent of backwards dodge for mirage - but in the form of a utility skill. So in that respect all I'd consider is cooldown reduction maybe to 20s and see if more people use it. Maybe the distance could be increased by +50 units but not to be so much as out of range of axe 2 or Jaunt.

To be honest I didn't thought about that, I mostly play power (althought axe does fine power damage, 5k+ axes of symmetry is sexy! I use sword for mobility) and I'm not a fan of waste resources to get resources (in case of jaunt to mirror) but seeing it at your light it's mostly fine yes.My reasoning was similar skills such as withdraw and lightning reflexes.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Sand Through Glass: I'm actually happy with how this functions - perfect distance to axe 2 back through the mirror. In my mind it's pretty much the equivalent of backwards dodge for mirage - but in the form of a utility skill. So in that respect all I'd consider is cooldown reduction maybe to 20s and see if more people use it. Maybe the distance could be increased by +50 units but not to be so much as out of range of axe 2 or Jaunt.

To be honest I didn't thought about that, I mostly play power (althought axe does fine power damage, 5k+ axes of symmetry is sexy! I use sword for mobility) and I'm not a fan of waste resources to get resources (in case of jaunt to mirror) but seeing it at your light it's mostly fine yes.My reasoning was similar skills such as withdraw and lightning reflexes.

I speculate that it was designed more to function with things like axe 2 and jaunt (jaunt definitely because I remember that being described to jaunt back to the mirror in a demo video) and being a pseudo backward dodge for mirage. I find that as StG always goes backwards in the direction of the character, it sometimes is then a case of repositioning to line up target and mirror and then axe 2 back through both for aoe weakness and evade frame to cover it. Additionally the mirror on the floor is a nice way to cover heal.

The issue I feel is the cooldown is just too long for what will soon amount to two separate 0.75s evades. Often I don't even use it as a stunbreak - instead just as a backward dodge for position.

There are other possibilities for StG such as:

  • remove stunbreak (put that on mirage advance instead - solve some other problems there)
  • reduce the cooldown heavily eg, 10 seconds
  • make it an ammo skill with 2 charges (10s per charge)

This way it would function as backwards dodge only and would also solve a lot of issue of mirage not having easy backward dodge mobility as standard.

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Made some edits on the first post with things found in other threads:

Infinite Horizon: make IH baseline and a trait to compete with EM (changed), reason being ambushes are hard to balance with IH choice, they're either bad or good/op. WIth this you can nerf more approprietly ambushes.

Ambushes: reduce cast time on ambushes so they can fit inside or closer to the mirage cloak uptime.

Fencer's finesse: Comparing to similar traits - Swindler's Equilibrium, Silent Scope, Forceful Greatsword, this one is clearly lacking.

After toying a bit with Mirage's Advance and get used to it, it's not as bad as I thought, I think it's one of the highest potential skills on mirage.So I found an alternative, put 1 or 2 sec of quickness on it, to allow a burst even with the slow cast time.

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Had a thought (may have read this in another thread can't remember) - as mirage cloak is at 0.75s, what if Elusive Mind was simply changed to increase all mirage cloak duration by 33% (back to 1s) plus the single condi cleanse per dodge?

That way it could make sense to have a choice between IH and EM - either you have shorter mirage cloak but can share it with your illusions (as well as ambush), or you get a longer mirage cloak but only for yourself.

Personally I think that would finally give a proper choice between IH and EM. Would also be a fairly small change without having to move traits.

(DC of course would still need something to make it appealing)

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I still have hope ANet and especially Robert realise their mistake of mc cut-down.I'll quote myself from other thread:

You cannot change a mechanic after several years of release and expect it works, people have develop muscular memory and timings that are now deeply ingrained. Imagine if they change steal to have a cast time or up the cds on ele attunement change, it would break all the flow and feel like kitten. Same thing will happen here.

Included a list of right nerfs and Curunen suggestions.

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@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Here are some things that could use a buff and the right things to nerf (these nerfs don't take into account 05/03 balance patch) - according to the mesmer community.This is pvp/wvw oriented.

Feel free to add yours suggestions or share your thoughts (mesmer only community tho, no "knowledgeable community" allowed B) )

My feedback and thoughts on this (Mesmer main in pretty much everything);

BUFFS:

Chronomancer

Illusionary Reversion: this one was downright smiter's booned at 16/03/2017 and even become worse at the next nerf, could use a revert.

AMEN! Give me back the power shatter options.

Tides of Time: this is controversial, some people prefer it this way, I find it incredible clunky to use and why can't it be fired backwards when some similar skills can? ranger gs4, dh's deflecting shot for example. Revert or make it be able to fire backwards.As for the new change I'll reserve my judgement but for the looks of it, it will become even clunkier.

I really want that to go back to the non-targeted functionality, with the new tech that prevents you using it behind you. Simple, fixed. Turn to face opponent, use it, THEN run.

Wells: all of them except gravity and heal are useless, could use some rework or tweek, bigger radius or pulse the benefits or affect 10 people in wvw or something else.

Agreed. And heal is almost useless due to the slight delay to groundcast it properly and the recharge. It should be 20, like Ether Feast. Also, frankly, would like to see it not ground target, and instead center on you with a slightly larger radius.

Danger Time: if I understood right this one was nerf because it's good at pve, so why not split? Is it somehow forbidden to split mesmer skills? Because some of the chronomancer stuff was nerfed back then thanks to raids and were not splitted.Still this nerf will be more felt in pvp/wvw than in pve.

Mirage

Crystal Sands: rework into something, this is useless.

Totally. Into what I have no idea.

Mirage Advance: reduce the cast time, this being 3/4 not only is clunky to use it, doesn't allow any combo but also screams dodge me! There are similar skills on game that are instant. Edit: Alternatively put 1 or 2 seconds of quickness on it, so you can burst right after teleport.

Sand Through Glass: up the rollback range to 500 units, the mirror spawns at the end location or up the range 50 and maintain the mirror at the end.

I think Mirage Mirrors also need to either break when you get to them (current functions) OR shatter like a single clone Mind Wrack if an enmy touches it (allowing them to be used somewhat offensively to cover a withdraw).

Illusionary Ambush: take out the randomness or lower the cd or get some trait to reduce deceptions' cds

Jaunt: back to 3 ammo or reduce cd to 20 sec, remove confusion from the skill if needed, no one cares about the confusion on jaunt.

My idea, leave the confusion, remove the damage, increase the range (600), ammo count 2.

Elusive Mind: take out exhaustion, cleanse 2 condis or 1 condi and -20% deception cds.

I like something more like what @Curunen.8729 and I suggested. Remove Stun Break, Remove Exhaustion, Increase Condi Removal to 2 and increase Mirage Cloak Duration. Or, it turns Mirage Cloak into a short distance Dodge Blink.

Lingering Thoughts: reduce cast time so it can be covered by mirage cloak, alternatively move evade frame from axe 3 to axe 2

Infinite Horizon: make IH baseline and a trait to compete with EM (changed), reason being ambushes are hard to balance with IH choice, they're either bad or good/op. WIth this you can nerf more approprietly ambushes.

Ambushes: reduce cast time on ambushes so they can fit inside or closer to the mirage cloak uptime. (.75 MC taked into account)

Agreed.

Mesmer

Critical Infusion: revert, let nomad's endurance stay nerfed if needed. Precision is used by power mirages not by condi, so will get power mesmer some survivality.

Blurred Frenzy: reduce the number of attacks to 4 while mantaining the damage, same as pistol whip.

Yeah, makes sense and is fair. It's still a high damage skill, but reduces the number of changes to trigger a crit (which is where it really hurts).

Phantasmal Swordsman: another controversial one, some people like it this way, I find it useless, revert back to poke phantasm or attach an immobilise to the first hit.

Confounding Suggestions: Convert Diversion's daze into stun, maintain the daze uptime, some icd - so chronos can't abuse it, this way MoD and sword ambush can no longer proc the stun, good power mesmers always use f3 to setup the burst anyway...

Fencer's finesse: Let's compare it to Swindler's Equilibrium, Silent Scope, Forceful Greatsword, this trait is clearly missing, it needs to hit 10 times to have the full benefit while the comparisons are pure passive traits. Either nerf all similar traits or buff this one to give passive 120 ferocity.

Going to slightly disagree here. I think this one is fine as is. I run it a lot in WvW, and credit it for winning a lot of my prolonged fights.

Signet of Humility - Reduce cd, since all transformations were reduced to 90, doesn't make much sense that the counter is still 180.

Agreed. Frankly, this should be 90 seconds, like most every other Elite. It's a short transform, and the enemy can still DO things during it. Like most commonly run faster than I can catch.

Time Warp - Make a glamour cd reduction trait.

Need this so much. Also frankly need an Illusion CD trait back.

Mass Invisibility - rework the anti-synergy between MI and Master of manipulation trait.

====================================================================================================NERFS:

Mirage:

Replace torment with bleeding, take into account the damage and uptime to make sure it's well traded, this will make the profession less oppressive, you can now kite without taking damage and bleeding is overall easier to cleanse.

AGREED 100% Frankly, I think Torment should be unique to Necromancer and Revenant.

Confusing Images - Either make scepter condi or power and nerf taking it into account or nerf both a little.

Agreed, the weapon is frankly a mess, a bit confusing, pardon the pun.

Illusionary Counter - Increase the CD.

Axe ambush - needs a condi tonedown.

Mirage Cloak - a bit of controversial as well - MC can't be done while stunned.

In my mind, MC being able to be done while stunned is a core part of the concept. But that should be it. No stun break, even with a trait.

Mesmer:

Evasive Mirror - Controversial, some people say it needs an icd or the reflect time cutted, some people say it's fine the way it is.

I really don't use it much. I get more mileage out of Fencer's Finesse, and I (like many others) can just abuse Blinding Dissipation much more reliably.

@Curunen.8729 said:(DC of course would still need something to make it appealing)

I occasionally use DC in PvE when just wandering maps to gather to damage enemies on Dodge and kill em a little quicker. But yeah, other than that niche use it's kinda trash.

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Added your ideas to the initial post.

Regarding Blurred Frenzy tbh the change was to decrease the retal potential damage, but that's a nice take on it too.As for Fencer's Finess, the change was proposed by Odik but I got what he meantOld trait:Fencer's Finesse (6s): 15 FerocityMaximum Stacks: 10Recharge Reduced: 20%

New one would be:Ferocity: +120Additional Ferocity (if wielding a sword): +120Recharge Reduced: 20%

So, you wouldn't lose anything (well you lose +30 ferocity if non-wielding a sword). Added some clarity to this one on the first post.

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Regarding Evasive Mirror. I was initially in the camp of it receiving an efficacy nerf but, seeing what nerfs are coming to Mesmer soon, I think it's not much of a concern anymore. As soon as you come up against a spec that isn't relying on projectiles for any real damage, the trait is rather redundant. Whereas, you could slot Blinding Dissipation and have more survivability against non-projectile attacks too.

Can't help but think that most of the issue is just Soulbeasts not adequately utilising a merged Call of the Wild before machine gunning with Longbow or shotgunning with axe. I guess it also shuts down off point pew pew from a Deadeye. But maybe it's a good thing to have a class functioning as a strong counter to high damage projectile burst...

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@"Simonoly.4352" said:Regarding Evasive Mirror. I was initially in the camp of it receiving an efficacy nerf but, seeing what nerfs are coming to Mesmer soon, I think it's not much of a concern anymore. As soon as you come up against a spec that isn't relying on projectiles for any real damage, the trait is rather redundant. Whereas, you could slot Blinding Dissipation and have more survivability against non-projectile attacks too.

Can't help but think that most of the issue is just Soulbeasts not adequately utilising a merged Call of the Wild before machine gunning with Longbow or shotgunning with axe. I guess it also shuts down off point pew pew from a Deadeye. But maybe it's a good thing to have a class functioning as a strong counter to high damage projectile burst...

I dislike it because it's brainless, you don't dodge to reflect a skill, you dodge to evade a skill then just get "free" reflect afterwards. That's why I think it should be during dodge (or during evade in general?).

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Added your ideas to the initial post.

Regarding Blurred Frenzy tbh the change was to decrease the retal potential damage, but that's a nice take on it too.As for Fencer's Finess, the change was proposed by Odik but I got what he meantOld trait:Fencer's Finesse (6s): 15 FerocityMaximum Stacks: 10Recharge Reduced: 20%

New one would be:Ferocity: +120Additional Ferocity (if wielding a sword): +120Recharge Reduced: 20%

So, you wouldn't lose anything (well you lose +30 ferocity if non-wielding a sword). Added some clarity to this one on the first post.I think this could be not ferocity but may be power/precision?Also Its like an axe trait for warrior counterpart. We can use 2 sword (sadly offhand isnt really good in pvp but w/e)IF you have at least 1 sword,then you et 120 stats, two -240.@"Quadox.7834" said:I dislike it because it's brainless, you don't dodge to reflect a skill, you dodge to evade a skill then just get "free" reflect afterwards. That's why I think it should be
during
dodge (or during evade in general?).

2s mirror each time you spent endurance for an evade... ? So weapon evades wont trigger mirror anymore. If you want to burn the trait with fire 1.5s ?

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Added your ideas to the initial post.

Regarding Blurred Frenzy tbh the change was to decrease the retal potential damage, but that's a nice take on it too.As for Fencer's Finess, the change was proposed by Odik but I got what he meantOld trait:Fencer's Finesse (6s): 15 FerocityMaximum Stacks: 10Recharge Reduced: 20%

New one would be:Ferocity: +120Additional Ferocity (if wielding a sword): +120Recharge Reduced: 20%

So, you wouldn't lose anything (well you lose +30 ferocity if non-wielding a sword). Added some clarity to this one on the first post.I think this could be not ferocity but may be power/precision?Also Its like an axe trait for warrior counterpart. We can use 2 sword (sadly offhand isnt really good in pvp but w/e)IF you have at least 1 sword,then you et 120 stats, two -240.

I think it is better the way that you get 120 X even without having a sword equip akin to some other traits, reason being you will lose 240 X as soon as you change weapons.

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Added your ideas to the initial post.

Regarding Blurred Frenzy tbh the change was to decrease the retal potential damage, but that's a nice take on it too.As for Fencer's Finess, the change was proposed by Odik but I got what he meantOld trait:Fencer's Finesse (6s): 15 FerocityMaximum Stacks: 10Recharge Reduced: 20%

New one would be:Ferocity: +120Additional Ferocity (if wielding a sword): +120Recharge Reduced: 20%

So, you wouldn't lose anything (well you lose +30 ferocity if non-wielding a sword). Added some clarity to this one on the first post.I think this could be not ferocity but may be power/precision?Also Its like an axe trait for warrior counterpart. We can use 2 sword (sadly offhand isnt really good in pvp but w/e)IF you have at least 1 sword,then you et 120 stats, two -240.@"Quadox.7834" said:I dislike it because it's brainless, you don't dodge to reflect a skill, you dodge to evade a skill then just get "free" reflect afterwards. That's why I think it should be
during
dodge (or during evade in general?).

2s mirror each time you spent endurance for an evade... ? So weapon evades wont trigger mirror anymore. If you want to burn the trait with fire 1.5s ?

I like "reflect while you evade" more. So dodge, blurred frenzy, etc work as reflects.If that's too op then just "reflect while you dodge".

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by a full overview i see the changes to mes is almost puting the mes in the same spot it still is. yes our dodge is geting more skill based and the condi is geting a hit but it looks like it might be more in line with other classes. other then that i see no change that makes mes any better or weeker then it already is.

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@Belishine.7493 said:by a full overview i see the changes to mes is almost puting the mes in the same spot it still is. yes our dodge is geting more skill based and the condi is geting a hit but it looks like it might be more in line with other classes. other then that i see no change that makes mes any better or weeker then it already is.

I don't know if you're referring to patch or these changes in particular.If the first the axes changes were not bad, could be better if torment was hit instead but the mc is a wrong nerf again - some reasons, the one I mentioned above, the fact that power mirage is not a problem and again will be affected, the fact that no skill cast time was taken into account, ambushes and axe 2 in particular, and it will be harder to get out of danger since you only walk at ss forward and the ss was cut, so to you have less time to about face and run.

If the second, the nerfs would definitely make condi mirage weaker. The sole change of trading torment for bleeding would be a huge tonedown.As for buffs it's not as much to get it in a stronger state but to open up more choices.

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@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:As for buffs it's not as much to get it in a stronger state but to open up more choices.

That's kind of what I was getting at here when I asked if Mesmer was the only class getting straight nerfs and no buffs. Without compensating elsewhere for nerfs, or reworking underutilized mechanics, the last balance update further narrowed choices and solidified already fairly singular ones. The last several balance updates in fact seem to funnel people into an ever shrinking number of viable builds, rather than enabling build diversity.

Major one from previous update:

  • Gut portal? Push everyone to Illusionary Ambush.

With this latest update:

  • Stack exhaustion? Elusive Mind is even more useless than it already was. IH is still the only choice. Might as well make it baseline as many have suggested.
  • Nerf Ineptitude (and by extension its synergy with Blinding Dissipation)? Anyone who wasn't already running Evasive Mirror and Deceptive Evasion will now.
  • Nerf Axe (for like the second or third time)? Guess they want more scepter. Though tbf, axe still does enough. It's in an okay place now.

These are just the obvious things that we already know. Just wish there was a little more "give" with their "take", not to keep certain builds OP, but to allow for variety and diversity.

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Regarding MA, further testing finding StG is still more successful for me even though both could do with slight buff of some sort. Reason - the clutch evade frames on reasonably low cooldown. First time in a long time playing a build without any stealth/detarget utility which for mesmer is kind of always good to have one to create breathing room. But currently most of them aren't good enough - Decoy too long cd, Mirror Images a joke, IA too long cooldown (especially given chance of bad rng/fail position), MA no evade, Veil useless when solo...

The only one that is in a secure state is Signet of Midnight, but as mentioned elsewhere I don't like using it - partly because stealth+reflects don't play well. The rest of them could do with slight cd shaves or redesigns (Mirror Images) or other tweaks (MA 0.75s evade like axe 3).

Mirror Images ought to spawn and randomly split position the clones like IA, just obviously without the mirage cloak being a core skill. As it currently just spawns on you it's totally useless especially if under cleave.

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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:As for buffs it's not as much to get it in a stronger state but to open up more choices.

That's kind of what I was getting at
when I asked if Mesmer was the only class getting straight nerfs and no buffs. Without compensating elsewhere for nerfs, or reworking underutilized mechanics, the last balance update further narrowed choices and solidified already fairly singular ones. The last several balance updates in fact seem to funnel people into an ever shrinking number of viable builds, rather than enabling build diversity.

Major one from previous update:
  • Gut portal? Push everyone to Illusionary Ambush.

With this latest update:
  • Stack exhaustion? Elusive Mind is even more useless than it already was. IH is still the only choice. Might as well make it baseline as many have suggested.
  • Nerf Ineptitude (and by extension its synergy with Blinding Dissipation)? Anyone who wasn't already running Evasive Mirror and Deceptive Evasion will now.
  • Nerf Axe (for like the second or third time)? Guess they want more scepter. Though tbf, axe still does enough. It's in an okay place now.

These are just the obvious things that we already know. Just wish there was a little more "give" with their "take", not to keep certain builds OP, but to allow for variety and diversity.

I don't know why they don't take suggestions from mesmers, I mean mes community suggestions aren't over the top, if you go to some of other profession forums, you'll see some of the most op suggestions ever made, you don't even need to get past page 1, plus mesmer even suggest nerfs, you don't see much of this as well.As for exhaustion it was first suggested on this forums, I don't remember by whom (I know it is a gw1 mechanic), as a condition mesmers would inflict to foes, look how that turned out.

@Curunen.8729 said:Regarding MA, further testing finding StG is still more successful for me even though both could do with slight buff of some sort. Reason - the clutch evade frames on reasonably low cooldown. First time in a long time playing a build without any stealth/detarget utility which for mesmer is kind of always good to have one to create breathing room. But currently most of them aren't good enough - Decoy too long cd, Mirror Images a joke, IA too long cooldown (especially given chance of bad rng/fail position), MA no evade, Veil useless when solo...

The only one that is in a secure state is Signet of Midnight, but as mentioned elsewhere I don't like using it - partly because stealth+reflects don't play well. The rest of them could do with slight cd shaves or redesigns (Mirror Images) or other tweaks (MA 0.75s evade like axe 3).

Mirror Images ought to spawn and randomly split position the clones like IA, just obviously without the mirage cloak being a core skill. As it currently just spawns on you it's totally useless especially if under cleave.

I tried the weapon swap with quickness and MA, it works, slightly harder to pull off than the traditional blink. Still don't find it optimal.Even with huge cd and the ocasional kitten up and teleport you right into 2351 traps, IA is still the better deception imo.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Axe ambush does zero damage, idk what further you want to nerf. Axe 2 is trash,it does need buffs,not nerfs. Axe 3 evade is fine ,why would u remove it and make it another useless skill ?Anet demonstrated that they ,as usual, know nothing absolutely. Instead of destroying mirage entirely they could take a look at overperforming meta build and spot CHAOS traitline and nerf it + evasive mirror . Any build that ran without chaos been BAD and now every build that doesnt include chaos is ...just horrible .0.75s evade ... I think I didnt play mirage during beta when it was 0.75 but now its just horrible .tldr: just play another class

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