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Changes to improve mesmer (Buffs, Nerfs, QoL)


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@Odik.4587 said:

@"Mydnyght.5026" said:As a power mesmer I'd say remove the plasma steal from thieves to start with, they already have enough mechanic to hunt mesmers.

I agree, plasma is one of the most kitten things in game, it's absolutely disgusting.Guess it is the perks of being the "favorite child" to have the most unfair fight on game.

I suggested to remove plasma on some pvp threads but this one is about buffs/nerfs on mesmer.

What would you replace it with then? Every steal skill has something to do with whatever you fight.

The hell does "all boons in the game" have to do with mesmer?

To my knowledge, Mesmer's kit is the most broad in terms of boon application. The class has several abilities and traits that can apply almost any boon in the game, so it would make sense for the stolen item to play off the mass boon application theme.

Plasma been since release. What it has to do with mesmer boon application once again ?Chrono bunker that can do it with chaos? What about firebrands that solely apply every boon and 25 might stacks and only thing they cant is alacrity ,may be they should add 'consume plasma' from guardians now ?Most of stolen skills are pretty much useless againt classes who got stolen

Yeah why is guard stolen skill a daze and mesmer is a boons, if anything it should be the opposite.

And engi stolen skill is etheral field + inflict random condition. That sounds like quintessential mesmer if you ask me.

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@"Mydnyght.5026" said:As a power mesmer I'd say remove the plasma steal from thieves to start with, they already have enough mechanic to hunt mesmers.

I agree, plasma is one of the most kitten things in game, it's absolutely disgusting.Guess it is the perks of being the "favorite child" to have the most unfair fight on game.

I suggested to remove plasma on some pvp threads but this one is about buffs/nerfs on mesmer.

What would you replace it with then? Every steal skill has something to do with whatever you fight.

The hell does "all boons in the game" have to do with mesmer?

To my knowledge, Mesmer's kit is the most broad in terms of boon application. The class has several abilities and traits that can apply almost any boon in the game, so it would make sense for the stolen item to play off the mass boon application theme.

Plasma been since release. What it has to do with mesmer boon application once again ?Chrono bunker that can do it with chaos? What about firebrands that solely apply every boon and 25 might stacks and only thing they cant is alacrity ,may be they should add 'consume plasma' from guardians now ?Most of stolen skills are pretty much useless againt classes who got stolen

Yeah why is guard stolen skill a daze and mesmer is a boons, if anything it should be the opposite.

And engi stolen skill is
etheral field
+ inflict random condition. That sounds like quintessential mesmer if you ask me.

Remove plasma and call it "throw plasma" add a bit more range and add something else for the engineer? Like something with a wrench , like throw it for a daze or smack it for a short stun. Less stupid thing than a 'consume plasma' .But thats never goin to happen so whatever

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@Curunen.8729 said:On that note regarding Steal and mesmer - how about it is something like creating a thief illusion? More health than a clone and that deals reasonable damage - similar to mesmer's 6 skill in Snowball Mayhem that summons a clone.Well... sounds like thief stealing anime series from mesmer pocket and learn shadow clone jutsu ... with improvisation there going to be army of thieves.... and steal recharge trait... how about no? :D

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@Odik.4587 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:On that note regarding Steal and mesmer - how about it is something like creating a thief illusion? More health than a clone and that deals reasonable damage - similar to mesmer's 6 skill in Snowball Mayhem that summons a clone.Well... sounds like thief stealing anime series from mesmer pocket and learn shadow clone jutsu ... with improvisation there going to be army of thieves.... and steal recharge trait... how about no? :D

Have you played Snowball Mayhem? The mesmer 6 clone is slightly tougher than normal clones and deals direct damage auto attacks, but doesn't last long and can still be killed fairly easily (just not as tissue paper as normal game mesmer clone) - so even with Improvisation thief would get at most two at any time, only auto attacking for damage with no other class synergy like mesmer has. I think it would be both more thematic and balanced than plasma.

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@Curunen.8729 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:On that note regarding Steal and mesmer - how about it is something like creating a thief illusion? More health than a clone and that deals reasonable damage - similar to mesmer's 6 skill in Snowball Mayhem that summons a clone.Well... sounds like thief stealing anime series from mesmer pocket and learn shadow clone jutsu ... with improvisation there going to be army of thieves.... and steal recharge trait... how about no? :D

Have you played Snowball Mayhem? The mesmer 6 clone is slightly tougher than normal clones and deals direct damage auto attacks, but doesn't last long and can still be killed fairly easily (just not as tissue paper as normal game mesmer clone) - so even with Improvisation thief would get at most two at any time, only auto attacking for damage with no other class synergy like mesmer has. I think it would be both more thematic and balanced than plasma.

I havent played that so no clue :confused:

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@Curunen.8729 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:On that note regarding Steal and mesmer - how about it is something like creating a thief illusion? More health than a clone and that deals reasonable damage - similar to mesmer's 6 skill in Snowball Mayhem that summons a clone.Well... sounds like thief stealing anime series from mesmer pocket and learn shadow clone jutsu ... with improvisation there going to be army of thieves.... and steal recharge trait... how about no? :D

Have you played Snowball Mayhem? The mesmer 6 clone is slightly tougher than normal clones and deals direct damage auto attacks, but doesn't last long and can still be killed fairly easily (just not as tissue paper as normal game mesmer clone) - so even with Improvisation thief would get at most two at any time, only auto attacking for damage with no other class synergy like mesmer has. I think it would be both more thematic and balanced than plasma.

This will take anet 8 years to develop, better add something simpler.

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:On that note regarding Steal and mesmer - how about it is something like creating a thief illusion? More health than a clone and that deals reasonable damage - similar to mesmer's 6 skill in Snowball Mayhem that summons a clone.Well... sounds like thief stealing anime series from mesmer pocket and learn shadow clone jutsu ... with improvisation there going to be army of thieves.... and steal recharge trait... how about no? :D

Have you played Snowball Mayhem? The mesmer 6 clone is slightly tougher than normal clones and deals direct damage auto attacks, but doesn't last long and can still be killed fairly easily (just not as tissue paper as normal game mesmer clone) - so even with Improvisation thief would get at most two at any time, only auto attacking for damage with no other class synergy like mesmer has. I think it would be both more thematic and balanced than plasma.

This will take anet 8 years to develop, better add something simpler.

Bad news. They aint reading for sh*t mesmer forums when its comes to balance and whatnot

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:On that note regarding Steal and mesmer - how about it is something like creating a thief illusion? More health than a clone and that deals reasonable damage - similar to mesmer's 6 skill in Snowball Mayhem that summons a clone.Well... sounds like thief stealing anime series from mesmer pocket and learn shadow clone jutsu ... with improvisation there going to be army of thieves.... and steal recharge trait... how about no? :D

Have you played Snowball Mayhem? The mesmer 6 clone is slightly tougher than normal clones and deals direct damage auto attacks, but doesn't last long and can still be killed fairly easily (just not as tissue paper as normal game mesmer clone) - so even with Improvisation thief would get at most two at any time, only auto attacking for damage with no other class synergy like mesmer has. I think it would be both more thematic and balanced than plasma.

This will take anet 8 years to develop, better add something simpler.

lol, that's a fair point.

@Odik.4587 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:On that note regarding Steal and mesmer - how about it is something like creating a thief illusion? More health than a clone and that deals reasonable damage - similar to mesmer's 6 skill in Snowball Mayhem that summons a clone.Well... sounds like thief stealing anime series from mesmer pocket and learn shadow clone jutsu ... with improvisation there going to be army of thieves.... and steal recharge trait... how about no? :D

Have you played Snowball Mayhem? The mesmer 6 clone is slightly tougher than normal clones and deals direct damage auto attacks, but doesn't last long and can still be killed fairly easily (just not as tissue paper as normal game mesmer clone) - so even with Improvisation thief would get at most two at any time, only auto attacking for damage with no other class synergy like mesmer has. I think it would be both more thematic and balanced than plasma.

I havent played that so no clue :confused:Sadly only available during Wintersday, pretty casual and large teams, but IMO is more fun/balanced pvp than normal pvp. :)

Warrior has best 6 skill there though. Mesmer 6 is useful for duplicating gift carrier, but otherwise on it's own its basically a tougher clone that deals direct damage from auto attacks - does nothing else.

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@"Safandula.8723" said:Rework chaos

In what way

This, so much.

List specific shaves to specific traits or highlight traits that should perhaps be changed.

Chaos is one step away from being kitten, as it already got heavy nerfs last year on Bountiful Disillusionment and Chaotic Persistence with the Chrono problems - so while I would be in favour of potential side grade reworks to stimulate more active boon application I am not in favour of significant "nerf" oriented reworks.

The only outlier trait is the one they recently added - Auspicious Anguish F4 reset - as far as I'm concerned they can delete and replace this with something else anyway.

On the other hand I find it extremely weird they nuked Critical Infusion vigour in Duelling but did nothing to BD F2 vigour duration in Chaos... Though to be fair this is the only vigour application holding things together for mirage at least given how crap Critical Infusion and Nomad's Endurance are since the heavy handed nerf.

PU is out of date, Chaotic Interrpution is decent in the right build but by no means overpowered. Chaotic Transference is mediocre as is Illusionary Defence. Chaotic Persistence is just about good enough. Regen and protection minors are fairly insignificant given the icd and durations so I'd welcome new minors here.

So the three real solid benefits in Chaos are Descent into Madness for chaos storm on heal, Manipulation trait, and Staff trait. Out of these already enough has been commented on modifying Master of Manipulation for better synergy with things like Mass Invis instead of reflect on everything, aside from that it is fine. Staff trait is perfectly fine, and likewise Descent into Madness is fine (though I personally believe fall damage reduction should be offloaded into the Mastery system in both pve and wvw instead of tied to a trait).

Bottom line is any changes to Chaos need a very careful and precise consideration - which I'm not overly confident due to Anet's usual m.o.

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https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_DisillusionmentBasicly this single trait is the reason why chaos mirage, bunker chrono in pvp are flooding in boons,, by literally face rolling over keyboard, and why chrono support in pve was broken for so long. Only becouse of this single trait, chrono was terrorizing meta in pve.Also some things like lesser chaos storm, some protect, and extended boon duration, that makes it hard to fight against. Access to boons should not be that easy.Solution? Not nerfs, just rework traits, so it encourage more interesting gameplay

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@"Safandula.8723" said:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_DisillusionmentBasicly this single trait is the reason why chaos mirage, bunker chrono in pvp are flooding in boons,, by literally face rolling over keyboard, and why chrono support in pve was broken for so long. Only becouse of this single trait, chrono was terrorizing meta in pve.Also some things like lesser chaos storm, some protect, and extended boon duration, that makes it hard to fight against. Access to boons should not be that easy.Solution? Not nerfs, just rework traits, so it encourage more interesting gameplay

If you want to remove carry traitline NOW they have to revert pretty much all nerfs

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@"Safandula.8723" said:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_DisillusionmentBasicly this single trait is the reason why chaos mirage, bunker chrono in pvp are flooding in boons,, by literally face rolling over keyboard, and why chrono support in pve was broken for so long. Only becouse of this single trait, chrono was terrorizing meta in pve.Also some things like lesser chaos storm, some protect, and extended boon duration, that makes it hard to fight against. Access to boons should not be that easy.Solution? Not nerfs, just rework traits, so it encourage more interesting gameplay

That is clearly incorrect because cMirage is just as strong or stronger with chaotic interruption.

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@"Safandula.8723" said:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_DisillusionmentBasicly this single trait is the reason why chaos mirage, bunker chrono in pvp are flooding in boons,, by literally face rolling over keyboard, and why chrono support in pve was broken for so long. Only becouse of this single trait, chrono was terrorizing meta in pve.Also some things like lesser chaos storm, some protect, and extended boon duration, that makes it hard to fight against. Access to boons should not be that easy.Solution? Not nerfs, just rework traits, so it encourage more interesting gameplay

I assume you, being a thief and against easy boon flooding, are against ectoplasma, right?

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"Safandula.8723" said:
Basicly this single trait is the reason why chaos mirage, bunker chrono in pvp are flooding in boons,, by literally face rolling over keyboard, and why chrono support in pve was broken for so long. Only becouse of this single trait, chrono was terrorizing meta in pve.Also some things like lesser chaos storm, some protect, and extended boon duration, that makes it hard to fight against. Access to boons should not be that easy.Solution? Not nerfs, just rework traits, so it encourage more interesting gameplay

I assume you, being a thief and against easy boon flooding, are against ectoplasma, right?

Tbh I'm tired of him complaining about mesmer everywhere he can as if I'd post in every thread how I hate brainless thieves and ppl who main it only cry all the time how bad they are at everything. Probably cant land steal so he never get plasma (p.s seen him in pvp lobby , he did play mesmer and judging by his reaction he was clicking on his skills)

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@Odik.4587 said:

@"Safandula.8723" said:
Basicly this single trait is the reason why chaos mirage, bunker chrono in pvp are flooding in boons,, by literally face rolling over keyboard, and why chrono support in pve was broken for so long. Only becouse of this single trait, chrono was terrorizing meta in pve.Also some things like lesser chaos storm, some protect, and extended boon duration, that makes it hard to fight against. Access to boons should not be that easy.Solution? Not nerfs, just rework traits, so it encourage more interesting gameplay

I assume you, being a thief and against easy boon flooding, are against ectoplasma, right?

Tbh I'm tired of him complaining about mesmer everywhere he can as if I'd post in every thread how I hate brainless thieves and ppl who main it only cry all the time how bad they are at everything. Probably cant land steal so he never get plasma (p.s seen him in pvp lobby , he did play mesmer and judging by his reaction he was clicking on his skills)

OH boys. I'm also annoyed by ignorance. Got few friends thay play mirage(all Plat) and, all agrees mirage is broken. U ask for change suggestions? I give em, if u can't agree on a source of problem, that is ur thing, I rly don't want to get into conversations like this at that point(can get the same results, by talking with my cat).I can at least point out things that are broken on thief. Is consume plasma broken? Yes it is. Why? Cuz we need it to fight mesmers. In all topics I try to point out problems with mesmers and few of u just stand ur ground with "git gut nub". This lvl of ignorance is actually hilarious.Not gonna spend more of my time on that crap, so no need to reply. Time to open fking eyelids boys

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@Safandula.8723 said:

Basicly this single trait is the reason why chaos mirage, bunker chrono in pvp are flooding in boons,, by literally face rolling over keyboard, and why chrono support in pve was broken for so long. Only becouse of this single trait, chrono was terrorizing meta in pve.Also some things like lesser chaos storm, some protect, and extended boon duration, that makes it hard to fight against. Access to boons should not be that easy.Solution? Not nerfs, just rework traits, so it encourage more interesting gameplay

I assume you, being a thief and against easy boon flooding, are against ectoplasma, right?

Tbh I'm tired of him complaining about mesmer everywhere he can as if I'd post in every thread how I hate brainless thieves and ppl who main it only cry all the time how bad they are at everything. Probably cant land steal so he never get plasma (p.s seen him in pvp lobby , he did play mesmer and judging by his reaction he was clicking on his skills)

OH boys. I'm also annoyed by ignorance. Got few friends thay play mirage(all Plat) and, all agrees mirage is broken. U ask for change suggestions? I give em, if u can't agree on a source of problem, that is ur thing, I rly don't want to get into conversations like this at that point(can get the same results, by talking with my cat).I can at least point out things that are broken on thief. Is consume plasma broken? Yes it is. Why? Cuz we need it to fight mesmers. In all topics I try to point out problems with mesmers and few of u just stand ur ground with "git gut nub". This lvl of ignorance is actually hilarious.Not gonna spend more of my time on that kitten, so no need to reply. Time to open kitten eyelids boys

So, BD needs a nerf because easy boons, yet ectoplasma, which are the easier boon access although broken is needed.You do know that mirage without chaos is trash, right? Because the profession which relies on evades has one of the least vigor access on game.

BD could be nerfed in trade we've to get perma-vigor and BF revert.

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@Safandula.8723 said:

Basicly this single trait is the reason why chaos mirage, bunker chrono in pvp are flooding in boons,, by literally face rolling over keyboard, and why chrono support in pve was broken for so long. Only becouse of this single trait, chrono was terrorizing meta in pve.Also some things like lesser chaos storm, some protect, and extended boon duration, that makes it hard to fight against. Access to boons should not be that easy.Solution? Not nerfs, just rework traits, so it encourage more interesting gameplay

I assume you, being a thief and against easy boon flooding, are against ectoplasma, right?

Tbh I'm tired of him complaining about mesmer everywhere he can as if I'd post in every thread how I hate brainless thieves and ppl who main it only cry all the time how bad they are at everything. Probably cant land steal so he never get plasma (p.s seen him in pvp lobby , he did play mesmer and judging by his reaction he was clicking on his skills)

OH boys. I'm also annoyed by ignorance. Got few friends thay play mirage(all Plat) and, all agrees mirage is broken. U ask for change suggestions? I give em, if u can't agree on a source of problem, that is ur thing, I rly don't want to get into conversations like this at that point(can get the same results, by talking with my cat).I can at least point out things that are broken on thief. Is consume plasma broken? Yes it is. Why? Cuz we need it to fight mesmers. In all topics I try to point out problems with mesmers and few of u just stand ur ground with "git gut nub". This lvl of ignorance is actually hilarious.Not gonna spend more of my time on that kitten, so no need to reply. Time to open kitten eyelids boys

I'm annoyed by delusional thief mains always crying ,no matter what, claiming to be worst class, having less evades and less mobility less of everything literally than everyone and especially mesmer . Never asked ultra biased salty thieves for their opinion as I never go into thief forum and start crying how bulls*it is your class without cooldown ,ignoring chill and skill cooldowns on interrupt and improvisaiton with enough luck outclass entire continuum split.Plasma is broken and should stay broken to get free kill on mesmer each time you land it and get 2 of it ? Insane good logic ,go somewhere else now

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BD is below standard since they nuked the stab to 1s and nerfed the might on F1.

On core and mirage it isn't an issue at all. I'd argue chaotic interruption is stronger if not for the RNG boons that BD doesn't have to deal with.

If Chrono is the issue then that should be looked at again.

The only legit issue I have with BD (aside from the decorative stability) is vigour on F2 could be reduced BUT in turn Critical Infusion in Duelling should be reverted from the previous nerf. The rest of it is fine.

Chaos is a boon line - even originally with the boon duration and toughness stats. It generates and increases boons - ie it is functioning exactly as its supposed to. The boon uptime on mirage and core are fine - and if anything carried by Chaotic Persistence otherwise would be crap - eg vigour uptime is terrible without Chaos.Chrono just needs rethinking with things like F5 and chronophantasma - as it was made during a time as a fix for all core mesmer problems - but now many things have been fixed (ie phantasm rework) those are no longer relevant.

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@Curunen.8729 said:BD is below standard since they nuked the stab to 1s and nerfed the might on F1.

On core and mirage it isn't an issue at all. I'd argue chaotic interruption is stronger if not for the RNG boons that BD doesn't have to deal with.

If Chrono is the issue then that should be looked at again.

The only legit issue I have with BD (aside from the decorative stability) is vigour on F2 could be reduced BUT in turn Critical Infusion in Duelling should be reverted from the previous nerf.

Talking about critical infusionLet's check similar traits:Vigorous Precision - on crit 5sec vigor 10ICDRenewing Stamina - on crit 5sec vigor 10ICD

Now not so similar traitsPrimal Reflexes - on evade 8sec 8ICD - permavigorFeline Grace - on evade 5 sec 1ICD - permavigor

So why the kitten Critical Infusion is on crit 3sec 10ICD? Is it because we're ANet's favourite child?!

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:BD is below standard since they nuked the stab to 1s and nerfed the might on F1.

On core and mirage it isn't an issue at all. I'd argue chaotic interruption is stronger if not for the RNG boons that BD doesn't have to deal with.

If Chrono is the issue then that should be looked at again.

The only legit issue I have with BD (aside from the decorative stability) is vigour on F2 could be reduced BUT in turn Critical Infusion in Duelling should be reverted from the previous nerf.

Talking about critical infusionLet's check similar traits:Vigorous Precision - on crit 5sec vigor 10ICDRenewing Stamina - on crit 5sec vigor 10ICD

Now not so similar traitsPrimal Reflexes - on evade 8sec 8ICD - permavigorFeline Grace - on evade 5 sec 1ICD - permavigor

So why the kitten Critical Infusion is on crit 3sec 10ICD? Is it because we're ANet's favourite child?!

Yeah this is one situation Anet really ought to relent and change it back - as they have already nerfed mirage cloak evade duration directly now.

Shave vigour on BD F2 down to say 5 seconds, then buff Critical Infusion vigour back to 5s on crit with 10s icd.

I mean it's on crit for goodness sake - eg depends on Precision, and has the 10s icd. 3s is a joke and one of the contributing factors pushing many people to need Chaos to make up for it.

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