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Changes to improve mesmer (Buffs, Nerfs, QoL)


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@Curunen.8729 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:BD is below standard since they nuked the stab to 1s and nerfed the might on F1.

On core and mirage it isn't an issue at all. I'd argue chaotic interruption is stronger if not for the RNG boons that BD doesn't have to deal with.

If Chrono is the issue then that should be looked at again.

The only legit issue I have with BD (aside from the decorative stability) is vigour on F2 could be reduced BUT in turn Critical Infusion in Duelling should be reverted from the previous nerf.

Talking about critical infusionLet's check similar traits:Vigorous Precision - on crit 5sec vigor 10ICDRenewing Stamina - on crit 5sec vigor 10ICD

Now not so similar traitsPrimal Reflexes - on evade 8sec 8ICD - permavigorFeline Grace - on evade 5 sec 1ICD - permavigor

So why the kitten Critical Infusion is on crit 3sec 10ICD? Is it because we're ANet's favourite child?!

Yeah this is one situation Anet really ought to relent and change it back - as they have already nerfed mirage cloak evade duration directly now.

Shave vigour on BD F2 down to say 5 seconds, then buff Critical Infusion vigour back to 5s on crit with 10s icd.

I mean it's on crit for goodness sake - eg depends on Precision, and has the 10s icd. 3s is a joke and one of the contributing factors pushing many people to need Chaos to make up for it.BF revert back as well. Also engis have invigorating speed that gives them 100% vigor uptime alone and have similar 'nomad endurance' trait when they use toolbelt gives them 2s vigor and their toolbelt is not mesmer alike with 15-25-35-50s cd , lul I guess?
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@Curunen.8729 said:BD is below standard since they nuked the stab to 1s and nerfed the might on F1.

On core and mirage it isn't an issue at all. I'd argue chaotic interruption is stronger if not for the RNG boons that BD doesn't have to deal with.

If Chrono is the issue then that should be looked at again.

The only legit issue I have with BD (aside from the decorative stability) is vigour on F2 could be reduced BUT in turn Critical Infusion in Duelling should be reverted from the previous nerf. The rest of it is fine.

Chaos is a boon line - even originally with the boon duration and toughness stats. It generates and increases boons - ie it is functioning exactly as its supposed to. The boon uptime on mirage and core are fine - and if anything carried by Chaotic Persistence otherwise would be kitten - eg vigour uptime is terrible without Chaos.Chrono just needs rethinking with things like F5 and chronophantasma - as it was made during a time as a fix for all core mesmer problems - but now many things have been fixed (ie phantasm rework) those are no longer relevant.

Yeah, rework/remove chronophantasma then see what happens to chrono and balance accordingly

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My Best Attempt at Unbiased Suggestions and Why (Edited Version 2.0)(please keep an open mind and read reasons why if you disagree) Please let me know what you think because I just spent a shit ton of time on this and now have to wake up for work in 3.5 hours =)

Traits

Chaos

Metaphysical Rejuvenation: Reduce Health Threshold from 75% to 25%

~~Illusionary Membrane: Lower protection from 3 seconds to 2 seconds ~~

~~Reasons: I am almost never for nerfing core. However, Chrono bunker needs to be balanced out and the Chrono line isn’t bringing any meaningful defense traits besides shield, which has already been nerfed and is close in line with shield options of other classes. Additionally, I am not a fan of passive affects like these on any class. A passive is not skillful gameplay. But don’t worry, I will try to balance out the Chaos trait line nerfs to compensate for core being nerfed if you read on. A lower % health threshold also allows for more counter play and fewer uses. ~~

~~Chaotic Dampening: Reduce protection duration from 4 seconds to 1 second. Switch the places of ‘Chaotic Dampening’ with ‘Master of Manipulation’ in the Chaos trait line. ~~

Edit:I don't know what I was thinking :# , just nerf the protection produced by the shield phantasm to deal with bunker chronoI think this will be enough for bunker chrono, but if it is not, focus on power damage from scepter and chronophantasma.

Bountiful Disillusionment: I will kinda come back to this one

Master of Manipulation: See https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/71244/suggestion-master-of-manipulation-reworkHowever, my favorite is the suggestion from Curunen.8729Master of Manipulation then goes into the old place of Chaotic Dampening

Reasons: This trait doesn’t even synergize with all the manipulation skills anyway.

Auspicious Anguish: Increase cool down to 90 seconds Delete this from the game. Move the new 'Master of Manipulation' into its spot and then come up with a very weak condi clear for a new major adept skill to take up the old spot of Master of Manipulation.

~~Reason: You have to remember that if you are bunkering or playing defensively, you can now take both ‘Auspicious Anguish’ and ‘Chaotic Dampening’. I also tried to balance these traits out so they are viable, adequate choices in their specific categories of the Chaos trait line. ~~

Inspiration

No changes

Domination

Confounding Suggestions: Diversion now becomes an ammo skill (kinda like shatter storm in the illusion trait line)

Reason: This is only a suggestion that I don’t think is OP and is kinda cool and more usefull relative to the current Confounding Suggestions.

Rending Shatter: Vulnerability is increased to 2 stacks and time is reduced to 4 seconds.

Reasoning: I don’t think the original trait was bad. However, it has never been good enough to see very much use from many people as far as I am aware. If you are afraid of too much burst then don’t worry. We are going to reduce the burst from the chrono line to put some power back into the core trait lines instead of the elite specs while at the same time creating viable options and reducing the MAX potential burst available.

Egotism: Remake into a weak condi removal trait.Mental Anguish: Revert March 27, 2018 changes.

Reason: I am not a fan of basically point blank straight up damage boosting traits like these. I believe they lack creativity. Mental Anguish is also no longer a viable choice in the grandmaster tiers and adding a weak condi cleans spread out over different trait lines promotes more viable build diversity.

Dueling

Desperate Decoy: Either completely replace or reduce health threshold to 25% to match ‘Metaphysical Rejuvenation” and stop it from canceling other actions when triggered. If it is not possible to prevent cancelation with decoy, try to remove the decoy part and only give 3 seconds of stealth.

Reasons: Mesmers have long complained about this trait negatively interrupting when not wanted, causing them to die, making the trait a hazard. Lowering the health threshold will at bare minimum decrease the chance of it going off unless truly intended if the devs for whatever reason can’t find a way to stop the skill from canceling your actions.

Critical Infusions: Vigor is increased back to 5 seconds

Reasons: Besides perhaps Scepter, condi mirage is already nerfed fairly hard and I truly believe an extra 2 seconds of vigor on crit won’t make it OP. However, the main reason is that it is COMPLETELY unfair to the class and core Mesmer. ‘Vigorous Precision’ and ‘Renewing Stamina’ both do exactly the same thing with 5 seconds of vigor on other classes. Additionally, there are many, many other traits on other classes that give 5 seconds or more vigor.

Illusions

Leave the Same

Chronomancer

Illusionary Reversion: Reduce required clones to 2 and put an internal cool down on it.

Reasons: No one uses this competitively anymore and even before the May 16, 2017 patch, it only had a very niche use WHEN the old version of ‘Chronophantasm’ was paired with it.

Danger Time: Either applying slow removes a condition (same reason as egotism in domination) or reduce critical damage to 5% and increase critical damage to 20%

Lost Time: Reduce critical damage to 20%

Reason: It might seem like a big nerf on ‘Lost Time’ but 100% is ridiculous when combined with other critical hit damage % modifiers Mesmer has access to and Chrono burst is too high, causing a lack of counter play. Reverting the 14% Mirror Blade nerf on March 27, 2018 is also possible to compensate if needed.

Mirage

Speed of Sand: Merge with mirage cloak since ‘speed of sand’ just balances out for a normal dodge and replace it with ‘Infinite Horizon’. Ambush attacks may need rebalancing after this change. Replace the new open grandmaster slot with any viable choice that doesn’t make a build OP. Additionally, either increase the time of ‘speed of sand’ to 1 second (leaving dodge time the same) OR somehow make it so mirages can dodge backwards and to the side moving at the same speed as dodging forward.

Reasons: Mirage currently can only dodge sideways or strafe 135 units in a dodge time frame when other classes can go 300 units, a 55% reduction in dodge distance sideways. They are also only able to dodge 78.75 units backwards when other classes can go 300 units, a 73.75% reduction in distance?Math: Strafing:180 u/s X .75 sec = 135 units, Backpedaling: 105 u/s X .75 sec = 78.75 units. Dodge = 300 units. Strafing: ((300-135)/300)X100 = 55%, Backpedaling: ((300-78.75)/300)X100 = 73.75%

Elusive Mind: My favorite idea for this is making it so mirage can’t dodge while stunned, immobilized, knockbacked, or feared unless EM is traited and to have EM remove 1 condition on dodge while removing exhaustion from the trait. However, if this isn’t feasible, just remove the sun break/exhaustion and increase the number of removed conditions to 2. However, I believe the first option will make Mirage easier to balance (both buff and nerf) in the long run.

SkillsPortal: Reduce the Max number of allies going through to 3 or even 2 and revert the duration nerf.

Reason: The nerf has appeared to make it reliably unusable in PvP. However, it was constantly overshadowing other skills. Before, portal was traditionally a lot better in coordinated group play than solo. A change such as this would reduce this distinction. Some may argue that this would destroy the important coordinated portal plays that made portal so special. However, I believe there could still be important plays and that it was some of those highly coordinated plays that made portal so overshadowing in group play and hard to balance around to begin with.

Signet of Inspiration: This needs to be based on what boons the Mesmer has.

Reasons:

  1. Wells on their own are not viable in WvW due to movement. Really, in order to balance support Chrono in WvW without changing SoI would involve making ‘Bountiful Disillusionment” apply its boons to allies as well.
  2. In order for PvE support chrono to not feel as clunky, well boons would have to be pulsed at the start of well placement and ‘Tides of Time’ would have to produce both quickness and alacrity on the first wave. Making game play reactionary is important!!!!
  3. Consider Well radius would have to increase to 600 to make up for SoI , or compare to ‘Feel My Wrath’, or bare minimum 360 to compare to ‘Liberator’s Vow’. However, immobile wells are still a great hindrance compared to these skills as well. However, doing so would increase the visual clutter.

Changing SoI would help fix all these issues. However, fixing 1-3 is also a viable option.

There we go, that is it. I tried avoiding using exact numbers as much as possible for suggestions and feel like it would be best to balance most of the mirage skills after or if ‘Infinite Horizon’ is moved.

Nowwww GW2 Gods please help me!

Blessed be to Lyssa!

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@Xstein.2187 said:I replied in PM . But to contribute I will do it here as well.I highly disagree on 25% health procs. Every death saving trait health treshold was increased from 25% because its moment you die regardless. Please no. If anything desperate decoy need a rework or do not interrupt actions.Aspicious anguish shouldnt exist . 90s cd is too much as it doesnt autoproc invul for us ,we have to use it. Honestly , this trait shouldnt exist regardless of cooldown.Egotism ... Probably need another rework(even reaper have 10% damage increaseas middle major but mesmer is 5%... why ?)... Cleanses dont belong to DPS traitlineForgot to add - CD trait ,1s of protection is too small imo , my suggestion was 2 or 3 seconds.

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I have something very specific to the action combat playstyle, because that playstyle is near impossible on Mesmer. Why?Because you have to not just click a target to create your clones but also have the center of your screen on the target when the cast ends, otherwise no clones will spawn and the spell will go on cooldown for no effect. I have no idea why that is as it makes no sense, especially compared to normal combat play, and it makes Mesmer near impossible to play, especially in scenarios with fast moving targets.

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@Azaka.8315 said:I have something very specific to the action combat playstyle, because that playstyle is near impossible on Mesmer. Why?Because you have to not just click a target to create your clones but also have the center of your screen on the target when the cast ends, otherwise no clones will spawn and the spell will go on cooldown for no effect. I have no idea why that is as it makes no sense, especially compared to normal combat play, and it makes Mesmer near impossible to play, especially in scenarios with fast moving targets.Very hard to understand you ... When you use clone/phantasm skill it goes on cooldown for nothing if you arent looking on your target? Probably they are not spawning because they are not in line of sight or out of range.... ?

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Generally I don't know if the proposed changes would do much Mirage really help much, as my assessment of Mirage in group content is somewhat different from how other people seem to see it. I am not going to talk about Chrono.I have made good experiences with Mirage in group content, even in zergs, mainly by bringing up phantasms / clones inside the enemy zerg, causing confusion and disarray because they suddenly have enmies in their midst. this works especially well, when attacking from the side or behind.To empower Mirage for group content we need more of this:More skills which can conjure phantasms / clones at range (not at your location, running toward the enemy group).

Phantasmal defender: Increase Range to 1200, have it appear at enemy side, causing immobility or cripple or find some other way for it to draw additional attention to itself. Maybe having it appear at the enemy location instead of at caster and goign to enemies would be enough already, without range increase and additional ways of drawing attention.The same goes for the focus off-hand weapon: Phantasmal Warden should appear at target location to be more useful or not be stationary. As it currently is, it tries to move into target range, once it has reached range it stays there and throws axes, usually not amounting to much as the target moves out of the way. The protection aspect of the warden rarely comes into play as it only helps against projectile attacks. In my experience this doesn't amount to much usually.

I like the idea with more active mirage mirrors, too, but here it would also be helpful to have more ways of producing them at range, when the current primary application of giving additonal mirage cloak would be changed to some kind of mechanic which enemies also can activate.

Generally I am not sure where to move with Mirage currently: For WvW it is not seen as meta, and to move anywhere, we'd first need to determine why that is. I know, I've had discussions about what professions should fulfill which role and am not in agreement with general assessments like "roaming spec" - more like "roaming professions" or not. YMMV. The choice of weapons and traits should determine where you want to move with your profession, not the choice of the profession itself, and while not every profession should be able to do everything, currently the gimmick aspects (primarily with veil and portal) overshadow and outshine other aspects greatly and picking them comes at a high cost for the Mirage player.

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@Odik.4587 said:

@"Xstein.2187" said:I replied in PM . But to contribute I will do it here as well.I highly disagree on 25% health procs. Every death saving trait health treshold was increased from 25% because its moment you die regardless. Please no. If anything desperate decoy need a rework or do not interrupt actions.Aspicious anguish shouldnt exist . 90s cd is too much as it doesnt autoproc invul for us ,we have to use it. Honestly , this trait shouldnt exist regardless of cooldown.Egotism ... Probably need another rework... Cleanses dont belong to DPS traitlineForgot to add - CD trait ,1s of protection is too small imo , my suggestion was 2 or 3 seconds.

Thanks for the reply :)Ya, as I said, I kinda tried to avoid using exact numbers for this reason lol should have tried harder, but I'm glad I did because it is a good thing to discuss!

  1. I wasn't aware or forgot that 25% was that bad. I suppose 50% would have to be the most they could possibly nerf it. I don't necessarily think this is necessarily too low based on experience with master of manipulation.
  2. If Auspicious Anguish is totally redone into a skill that is not defensive then the amount of Protection could obviously be buff up to a higher number. However, my concern was that those extra numbers of protection off won't be enough to balance out bunker chrono, especially if Metaphysical Rejuvenation is left at 75%, and as I said, this was done knowing bunker would be able to take both traits.

The new 'Master of Manipulation' trait would be too strong to be in the 'Major Adebt' category of the trait line and I have not seen anything close to good replacements from anyone else so far for this strait just for the simple fact that manipulation skills are all over the place and there really isn't a very good coherent theme with them. However, probably an even better option overall is to remove 'Auspicious Anguish' completely. In its place put the new 'Master of Manipulation' trait. Put 'Chaotic Dampening' at 2 or 3 sec (Numbers would be based on whatever balances out bunker. However, keep in mind that if this isn't enough, something else will likely get nerfed weather you think it should or want it to or not, yuk. I think you obviously know that already though). Finally, in the old 'Major Adept' position of the old 'Master of Manipulation' trait come up with a new trait that chrono bunkers would NOT use.

  1. Egotism: ya, this is kinda a weird situation. Most classes have condi cleans traits on more than one TYPE or core spec trait line except for Guardian, Rev, and Mes. However, currently overall, mes is in line with other classes in terms of condi cleans traits. My only problem being they are all stuck in the inspiration train line. Therefore, perhaps the new chaos trait could have something to do with a weak condition cleanse. Would chrono bunker choose this? Potentially, it would definitely have to be a weak condi cleanse. However, 'Blurred Inscriptions' was once a weak condi cleanse before the trait was changed. Therefore, I don't think this is out of the question.

I would rather have balanced out condi clears than have trait lines be aesthetically pleasing or unison in concept. For example, the elementalist Fire trait line has a condi cleans trait. However, it is best to maintain this unison of concept idea if possible.

My concerns with Egotism being paired with the pre-patch 'Mental Anguish' is that it will create too big of a burst. I don't want to leave Mental Anguish like it is right now since no one is taking it. Sooo, if it is not too strong when combined with other traits then I agree on just keeping egotism the same.

  1. I like this version of Confounding suggestions better because, wellll current mesmer has mostly 1 second dazes. I know some people use it, but I find being able to use a 1 sec daze (simplifying) twice better than being able to use a 1.5 sec daze once. The current mantra of distraction pairs nicely with confounding suggestions, buuuut it is still just adding .5 sec, isn't it?
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@"nthmetal.9652" said:Generally I don't know if the proposed changes would do much Mirage really help much, as my assessment of Mirage in group content is somewhat different from how other people seem to see it. I am not going to talk about Chrono.I have made good experiences with Mirage in group content, even in zergs, mainly by bringing up phantasms / clones inside the enemy zerg, causing confusion and disarray because they suddenly have enmies in their midst. this works especially well, when attacking from the side or behind.To empower Mirage for group content we need more of this:More skills which can conjure phantasms / clones at range (not at your location, running toward the enemy group).

Phantasmal defender: Increase Range to 1200, have it appear at enemy side, causing immobility or cripple or find some other way for it to draw additional attention to itself. Maybe having it appear at the enemy location instead of at caster and goign to enemies would be enough already, without range increase and additional ways of drawing attention.The same goes for the focus off-hand weapon: Phantasmal Warden should appear at target location to be more useful or not be stationary. As it currently is, it tries to move into target range, once it has reached range it stays there and throws axes, usually not amounting to much as the target moves out of the way. The protection aspect of the warden rarely comes into play as it only helps against projectile attacks. In my experience this doesn't amount to much usually.

I like the idea with more active mirage mirrors, too, but here it would also be helpful to have more ways of producing them at range, when the current primary application of giving additonal mirage cloak would be changed to some kind of mechanic which enemies also can activate.

Generally I am not sure where to move with Mirage currently: For WvW it is not seen as meta, and to move anywhere, we'd first need to determine why that is. I know, I've had discussions about what professions should fulfill which role and am not in agreement with general assessments like "roaming spec" - more like "roaming professions" or not. YMMV. The choice of weapons and traits should determine where you want to move with your profession, not the choice of the profession itself, and while not every profession should be able to do everything, currently the gimmick aspects (primarily with veil and portal) overshadow and outshine other aspects greatly and picking them comes at a high cost for the Mirage player.

You are still on about mirage being accepted in zerg... You say you were successful... and useful? And caused confusion? Dont lie to yourself.Your clones/phantasms being erased way before they could do anything in their short-lived life. Huge aoe hardsmacking classes like revenants/eles/scourges with their marks/shades/wells/corruptions - what is make an impact ,not your 2.400 hp clones ... Your ambush with 25 mights simply nothing and dont hurt at all compared to revenant with a single hammer, just a single skill and you are going to RESPAWN. Get real, your dream will never come true as we dont have massive aoes as others do. Mesmer is not about it ,so poor thieves,rangers...etc

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@Odik.4587 said:

@Azaka.8315 said:I have something very specific to the action combat playstyle, because that playstyle is near impossible on Mesmer. Why?Because you have to not just click a target to create your clones but also have the center of your screen on the target when the cast ends, otherwise no clones will spawn and the spell will go on cooldown for no effect. I have no idea why that is as it makes no sense, especially compared to normal combat play, and it makes Mesmer near impossible to play, especially in scenarios with fast moving targets.Very hard to understand you ... When you use clone/phantasm skill it goes on cooldown for nothing if you arent looking on your target? Probably they are not spawning because they are not in line of sight or out of range.... ?Let me try again.When playing action combat and you use something like staff 3 that spawns 2 phantasms you need to have a proper target (clicked on an enemy for example; there are different options for action combat but clicking a target is the safest version to lock on an opponent) and in addition to that at the end of the cast you also need to have that same target in the center of your screen. If one of these conditions doesn't apply (you have not locked the target or are not aiming at the target) the spell will fail and go on cooldown with no effect.It is basically that you have a double condition that needs to be fulfilled to succeed in your cast.

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@Azaka.8315 said:

@Azaka.8315 said:I have something very specific to the action combat playstyle, because that playstyle is near impossible on Mesmer. Why?Because you have to not just click a target to create your clones but also have the center of your screen on the target when the cast ends, otherwise no clones will spawn and the spell will go on cooldown for no effect. I have no idea why that is as it makes no sense, especially compared to normal combat play, and it makes Mesmer near impossible to play, especially in scenarios with fast moving targets.Very hard to understand you ... When you use clone/phantasm skill it goes on cooldown for nothing if you arent looking on your target? Probably they are not spawning because they are not in line of sight or out of range.... ?Let me try again.When playing action combat and you use something like staff 3 that spawns 2 phantasms you need to have a proper target (clicked on an enemy for example; there are different options for action combat but clicking a target is the safest version to lock on an opponent) and in addition to that at the end of the cast you also need to have that same target in the center of your screen. If one of these conditions doesn't apply (you have not locked the target or are not aiming at the target) the spell will fail and go on cooldown with no effect.It is basically that you have a double condition that needs to be fulfilled to succeed in your cast.

Well , you werent clear that you use action camera... at least I couldnt understand... Em...I never played with action camera and I think its not good ,especially for competitive gamemodes . Regardless, sounds like a huge bug to me
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Your clones/phantasms being erased way before they could do anything in their short-lived life. Huge aoe hardsmacking classes like revenants/eles/scourges with their marks/shades/wells/corruptions - what is make an impact ,not your 2.400 hp clones ... Your ambush with 25 mights simply nothing and dont hurt at all compared to revenant with a single hammer, just a single skill and you are going to RESPAWN. Get real, your dream will never come true as we dont have massive aoes as others do. Mesmer is not about it ,so poor thieves,rangers...etc

Tell that to the people being downed due to my berserkers, and to the zergs falling into momentary chaos due to suddenly two enemies appearing in their middle. However, I agree with your assessment (or at least I understand your assessment in this way) that in the time I deal damage to a group of players, necros or eles deal more damage to possibly more people, possibly by even working less hard to do so. This IMO is a general problem in the game balance that should be adressed at some point.This is possibly an underlying design problem, as you cannot simply compensate by upping single-target damage, since this would cause a lot of one-shotting enemies, but compensating with gimmicky clones, veil and portal, and a wonky dodge-mechanic is also not working that well. You can argue that the current design caters to a "high risk, high reward" playstyle, only that the "high reward" doesn't seem to exist - YMMV of course.

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@Odik.4587 said:

@Azaka.8315 said:I have something very specific to the action combat playstyle, because that playstyle is near impossible on Mesmer. Why?Because you have to not just click a target to create your clones but also have the center of your screen on the target when the cast ends, otherwise no clones will spawn and the spell will go on cooldown for no effect. I have no idea why that is as it makes no sense, especially compared to normal combat play, and it makes Mesmer near impossible to play, especially in scenarios with fast moving targets.Very hard to understand you ... When you use clone/phantasm skill it goes on cooldown for nothing if you arent looking on your target? Probably they are not spawning because they are not in line of sight or out of range.... ?Let me try again.When playing action combat and you use something like staff 3 that spawns 2 phantasms you need to have a proper target (clicked on an enemy for example; there are different options for action combat but clicking a target is the safest version to lock on an opponent) and in addition to that at the end of the cast you also need to have that same target in the center of your screen. If one of these conditions doesn't apply (you have not locked the target or are not aiming at the target) the spell will fail and go on cooldown with no effect.It is basically that you have a double condition that needs to be fulfilled to succeed in your cast.

Well , you werent clear that you use action camera... at least I couldnt understand... Em...I never played with action camera and I think its not good ,especially for competitive gamemodes . Regardless, sounds like a huge bug to me

Oh, I know that not many people play with action cam that is why I called it a very specific problem and even more specific because this is only a Mesmer problem.I really enjoy playing with action cam and I would argue that it can even be better in competitive modes depending on class, BUT for Mesmer it is really bad because of that 'bug'.Some classes /styles work really well, but others have problems with this kind of double conditions and the worst offender is Mesmer in that regard.

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@Odik.4587 said:

@Azaka.8315 said:I have something very specific to the action combat playstyle, because that playstyle is near impossible on Mesmer. Why?Because you have to not just click a target to create your clones but also have the center of your screen on the target when the cast ends, otherwise no clones will spawn and the spell will go on cooldown for no effect. I have no idea why that is as it makes no sense, especially compared to normal combat play, and it makes Mesmer near impossible to play, especially in scenarios with fast moving targets.Very hard to understand you ... When you use clone/phantasm skill it goes on cooldown for nothing if you arent looking on your target? Probably they are not spawning because they are not in line of sight or out of range.... ?

Action camera

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@"Xstein.2187" said:My Best Attempt at Unbiased Suggestions and Why(please keep an open mind and read reasons why if you disagree) Please let me know what you think because I just spent a kitten ton of time on this and now have to wake up for work in 3.5 hours =)

Traits

Chaos

Metaphysical Rejuvenation: Reduce Health Threshold from 75% to 25%

Illusionary Membrane: Lower protection from 3 seconds to 2 seconds

Reasons: I am almost never for nerfing core. However, Chrono bunker needs to be balanced out and the Chrono line isn’t bringing any meaningful defense traits besides shield, which has already been nerfed and is close in line with shield options of other classes. Additionally, I am not a fan of passive affects like these on any class. A passive is not skillful gameplay. But don’t worry, I will try to balance out the Chaos trait line nerfs to compensate for core being nerfed if you read on. A lower % health threshold also allows for more counter play and fewer uses.

Chaotic Dampening: Reduce protection duration from 4 seconds to 1 second. Switch the places of ‘Chaotic Dampening’ with ‘Master of Manipulation’ in the Chaos trait line.

Bountiful Disillusionment: I will kinda come back to this one

Master of Manipulation: See https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/71244/suggestion-master-of-manipulation-reworkHowever, my favorite is the suggestion from Curunen.8729Master of Manipulation then goes into the old place of Chaotic Dampening

Reasons: This trait doesn’t even synergize with all the manipulation skills anyway. Therefore, this is a good opportunity to balance out the core Chaos trait line nerf due to Chrono bunker.

Auspicious Anguish: Increase cool down to 90 seconds

Reason: You have to remember that if you are bunkering or playing defensively, you can now take both ‘Auspicious Anguish’ and ‘Chaotic Dampening’. I also tried to balance these traits out so they are viable, adequate choices in their specific categories of the Chaos trait line.

Inspiration

No changes

Domination

Confounding Suggestions: Diversion now becomes an ammo skill (kinda like shatter storm in the illusion trait line)

Reason: This is only a suggestion that I don’t think is OP and is kinda cool and more usefull relative to the current Confounding Suggestions.

Rending Shatter: Vulnerability is increased to 2 stacks and time is reduced to 4 seconds.

Reasoning: I don’t think the original trait was bad. However, it has never been good enough to see very much use from many people as far as I am aware. If you are afraid of too much burst then don’t worry. We are going to reduce the burst from the chrono line to put some power back into the core trait lines instead of the elite specs while at the same time creating viable options and reducing the MAX potential burst available.

Egotism: Remake into a weak condi removal trait.Mental Anguish: Revert March 27, 2018 changes.

Reason: I am not a fan of basically point blank straight up damage boosting traits like these. I believe they lack creativity. Mental Anguish is also no longer a viable choice in the grandmaster tiers and adding a weak condi cleans spread out over different trait lines promotes more viable build diversity.

Dueling

Desperate Decoy: Either completely replace or reduce health threshold to 25% to match ‘Metaphysical Rejuvenation” and stop it from canceling other actions when triggered. If it is not possible to prevent cancelation with decoy, try to remove the decoy part and only give 3 seconds of stealth.

Reasons: Mesmers have long complained about this trait negatively interrupting when not wanted, causing them to die, making the trait a hazard. Lowering the health threshold will at bare minimum decrease the chance of it going off unless truly intended if the devs for whatever reason can’t find a way to stop the skill from canceling your actions.

Critical Infusions: Vigor is increased back to 5 seconds

Reasons: Besides perhaps Scepter, condi mirage is already nerfed fairly hard and I truly believe an extra 2 seconds of vigor on crit won’t make it OP. However, the main reason is that it is COMPLETELY unfair to the class and core Mesmer. ‘Vigorous Precision’ and ‘Renewing Stamina’ both do exactly the same thing with 5 seconds of vigor on other classes. Additionally, there are many, many other traits on other classes that give 5 seconds or more vigor.

Illusions

Persistence of Memory: I don’t personally understand how this skill is useful or a viable choice. Based on this, I would like to see it replaced by something that is. However, if anyone out there finds it useful, please don’t be afraid to chime in below.

Chronomancer

Illusionary Reversion: Reduce required clones to 2 and put an internal cool down on it.

Reasons: No one uses this competitively anymore and even before the May 16, 2017 patch, it only had a very niche use WHEN the old version of ‘Chronophantasm’ was paired with it.

Danger Time: Either applying slow removes a condition (same reason as egotism in domination) or reduce critical damage to 5% and increase critical damage to 20%

Lost Time: Reduce critical damage to 20%

Reason: It might seem like a big nerf on ‘Lost Time’ but 100% is ridiculous when combined with other critical hit damage % modifiers Mesmer has access to and Chrono burst is too high, causing a lack of counter play. Reverting the 14% Mirror Blade nerf on March 27, 2018 is also possible to compensate if needed.

Mirage

Speed of Sand: Merge with mirage cloak since ‘speed of sand’ just balances out for a normal dodge and replace it with ‘Infinite Horizon’. Ambush attacks may need rebalancing after this change. Replace the new open grandmaster slot with any viable choice that doesn’t make a build OP. Additionally, either increase the time of ‘speed of sand’ to 1 second (leaving dodge time the same) OR somehow make it so mirages can dodge backwards and to the side moving at the same speed as dodging forward.

Reasons: Mirage currently can only dodge sideways or strafe 135 units in a dodge time frame when other classes can go 300 units, a 55% reduction in dodge distance sideways. They are also only able to dodge 78.75 units backwards when other classes can go 300 units, a 73.75% reduction in distance?Math: Strafing:180 u/s X .75 sec = 135 units, Backpedaling: 105 u/s X .75 sec = 78.75 units. Dodge = 300 units. Strafing: ((300-135)/300)X100 = 55%, Backpedaling: ((300-78.75)/300)X100 = 73.75%

Elusive Mind: My favorite idea for this is making it so mirage can’t dodge while stunned, immobilized, knockbacked, or feared unless EM is traited and to have EM remove 1 condition on dodge while removing exhaustion from the trait. However, if this isn’t feasible, just remove the sun break/exhaustion and increase the number of removed conditions to 2. However, I believe the first option will make Mirage easier to balance (both buff and nerf) in the long run.

SkillsPortal: Reduce the Max number of allies going through to 3 or even 2 and revert the duration nerf.

Reason: The nerf has appeared to make it reliably unusable in PvP. However, it was constantly overshadowing other skills. Before, portal was traditionally a lot better in coordinated group play than solo. A change such as this would reduce this distinction. Some may argue that this would destroy the important coordinated portal plays that made portal so special. However, I believe there could still be important plays and that it was some of those highly coordinated plays that made portal so overshadowing in group play and hard to balance around to begin with.

Signet of Inspiration: This needs to be based on what boons the Mesmer has.

Reasons:

  1. Wells on their own are not viable in WvW due to movement. Really, in order to balance support Chrono in WvW without changing SoI would involve making ‘Bountiful Disillusionment” apply its boons to allies as well.
  2. In order for PvE support chrono to not feel as clunky, well boons would have to be pulsed at the start of well placement and ‘Tides of Time’ would have to produce both quickness and alacrity on the first wave. Making game play reactionary is important!!!!
  3. Consider Well radius would have to increase to 600 to make up for SoI , or compare to ‘Feel My Wrath’, or bare minimum 360 to compare to ‘Liberator’s Vow’. However, immobile wells are still a great hindrance compared to these skills as well. However, doing so would increase the visual clutter.

Changing SoI would help fix all these issues. However, fixing 1-3 is also a viable option.

There we go, that is it. I tried avoiding using exact numbers as much as possible for suggestions and feel like it would be best to balance most of the mirage skills after or if ‘Infinite Horizon’ is moved.

Nowwww GW2 Gods please help me!

Blessed be to Lyssa!

I only like confounding suggestions and critial infusion, plus maybe portal, rending shatter and mental anguish, out of all these.

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Your clones/phantasms being erased way before they could do anything in their short-lived life. Huge aoe hardsmacking classes like revenants/eles/scourges with their marks/shades/wells/corruptions - what is make an impact ,not your 2.400 hp clones ...

This is also a valid point, I think, and one that could be adressed in the same way, as the idea for mirrors: Attach a cost to the destruction of clones and phantasms. When a clone or a phantasm is destroyed, it deals damage. Make that aspect traitable, so you can improve it for conditions or for power.

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@nthmetal.9652 said:

Your clones/phantasms being erased way before they could do anything in their short-lived life. Huge aoe hardsmacking classes like revenants/eles/scourges with their marks/shades/wells/corruptions - what is make an impact ,not your 2.400 hp clones ...

This is also a valid point, I think, and one that could be adressed in the same way, as the idea for mirrors: Attach a cost to the destruction of clones and phantasms. When a clone or a phantasm is destroyed, it deals damage. Make that aspect traitable, so you can improve it for conditions or for power.

Funny you should mention that... that was a trait before HoT.

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@nthmetal.9652 said:

Your clones/phantasms being erased way before they could do anything in their short-lived life. Huge aoe hardsmacking classes like revenants/eles/scourges with their marks/shades/wells/corruptions - what is make an impact ,not your 2.400 hp clones ...

This is also a valid point, I think, and one that could be adressed in the same way, as the idea for mirrors: Attach a cost to the destruction of clones and phantasms. When a clone or a phantasm is destroyed, it deals damage. Make that aspect traitable, so you can improve it for conditions or for power.

ptsd

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:I only like confounding suggestions and critial infusion, plus maybe portal, rending shatter and mental anguish, out of all these.

The CS suggestion is tasty... <3 (probably too strong for an Adept trait)

Big no no to the Chaos-changes, though. The minor traits already got a rather low uptime and I really don't see how Chaos is an issue per se.

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@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:I only like confounding suggestions and critial infusion, plus maybe portal, rending shatter and mental anguish, out of all these.

The CS suggestion is tasty... <3 (probably too strong for an Adept trait)

Big no no to the Chaos-changes, though. The minor traits already got a rather low uptime and I really don't see how Chaos is an issue per se.

Only I dont understand how 2 ammos of this is too strong ? Its cooldown is huge...38seconds bruhYe I barely notice protection on me as well ,somewhat always being bursted without protection on me even running chaos... Weird feeling

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@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:I only like confounding suggestions and critial infusion, plus maybe portal, rending shatter and mental anguish, out of all these.

The CS suggestion is tasty... <3 (probably too strong for an Adept trait)

Big no no to the Chaos-changes, though. The minor traits already got a rather low uptime and I really don't see how Chaos is an issue per se.

Thanks, Ya I personally don't really think it would be OP because 'shatter storm' is major adept trait in the illusion line that is just fine with a shorter cool down. Additionally, some people complained about this trait like crazy when it first came out because they thought it would be OP. However, now? Nothing with 'shatter storm' has changed and I definitely don't see people using it all over the place.

Chaos Line: Ya I agree. However, I still think it is a good idea to delete 'Auspicious Anguish', replace it with Curunun's version of 'Master of Manipulation', and then come up with a new trait in the 'major adept' category. Additionally, we NEED to find some way to nerf Chrono bunker. However, if Curunun is right about the chaos trait line, then the only reasonable potential nerf from there would be 'Chaotic Dampening'. I mean . . . I highly doubt the devs would be ok with just nerfing 'Decent into Madness'. However, we really need to find a way to nerf Bunker Chrono ASAP before the devs do. If someone wants to nerf chrono bunker before the devs do without touching the chaos line then plz come up with some ideas. I'm fairly open to any ideas.

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@Xstein.2187 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:I only like confounding suggestions and critial infusion, plus maybe portal, rending shatter and mental anguish, out of all these.

The CS suggestion is tasty... <3 (probably too strong for an Adept trait)

Big no no to the Chaos-changes, though. The minor traits already got a rather low uptime and I really don't see how Chaos is an issue per se.

Thanks, Ya I personally don't really think it would be OP because 'shatter storm' is major adept trait in the illusion line that is just fine with a shorter cool down. Additionally, some people complained about this trait like crazy when it first came out because they thought it would be OP. However, now? Nothing with 'shatter storm' has changed and I definitely don't see people using it all over the place.

Chaos Line: Ya I agree. However, I still think it is a good idea to delete 'Auspicious Anguish', replace it with Curunun's version of 'Master of Manipulation', and then come up with a new trait in the 'major adept' category. Additionally, we NEED to find some way to nerf Chrono bunker. However, if Curunun is right about the chaos trait line, then the only reasonable potential nerf from there would be 'Chaotic Dampening'. I mean . . . I highly doubt the devs would be ok with just nerfing 'Decent into Madness'. However, we really need to find a way to nerf Bunker Chrono ASAP before the devs do. If someone wants to nerf chrono bunker before the devs do without touching the chaos line then plz come up with some ideas. I'm fairly open to any ideas.You are missing huge factor that makes chrono viable... S C E P T E R. Without scepter you have 0 damage literally ... REWORK SCEPTER FROM CLUNKY CRAP TO SOMETHING USEFUL!
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@Xstein.2187 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:I only like confounding suggestions and critial infusion, plus maybe portal, rending shatter and mental anguish, out of all these.

The CS suggestion is tasty... <3 (probably too strong for an Adept trait)

Big no no to the Chaos-changes, though. The minor traits already got a rather low uptime and I really don't see how Chaos is an issue per se.

Thanks, Ya I personally don't really think it would be OP because 'shatter storm' is major adept trait in the illusion line that is just fine with a shorter cool down. Additionally, some people complained about this trait like crazy when it first came out because they thought it would be OP. However, now? Nothing with 'shatter storm' has changed and I definitely don't see people using it all over the place.

Chaos Line: Ya I agree. However, I still think it is a good idea to delete 'Auspicious Anguish', replace it with Curunun's version of 'Master of Manipulation', and then come up with a new trait in the 'major adept' category. Additionally, we NEED to find some way to nerf Chrono bunker. However, if Curunun is right about the chaos trait line, then the only reasonable potential nerf from there would be 'Chaotic Dampening'. I mean . . . I highly doubt the devs would be ok with just nerfing 'Decent into Madness'. However, we really need to find a way to nerf Bunker Chrono ASAP before the devs do. If someone wants to nerf chrono bunker before the devs do without touching the chaos line then plz come up with some ideas. I'm fairly open to any ideas.
  1. Delete chronophantasma
  2. Nerf scepter 3 power dmg, buff the condi dmg.

I would also decrease chaotic dampening protection to 3 sec.

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Now that I have spent more time with Mirage post patch I have a better idea of how it is right now and also the few changes I would like to see (only mirage aside from critical infusion comment, but otherwise no comment on Core or Chrono in this post - don't want to dilute the focus of the post). Some of my previous opinions and concerns have changed drastically but I must be honest where possible and say it how it is in terms of my experience. :)

Disclaimer: wvw perspective with this build - ie food, 50% endurance energy sigils, 3 condi cleansing sigils, different adventurer rune, and finer stat customisation - so obviously have no idea how mirage is performing in pvp though appreciate it must be in a much worse state due to the differences - no food, worse energy sigils, rigid stats etc.

Observations:

  1. Mirage Cloak - I honestly feel comfortable with evade duration at 0.75s. Was worried about it being a problem but I have to hold my hands up and say I personally am not having any issue with it. Edit - for clarity it is the evade duration I'm talking about which I'm fine with - yes in terms of movement the side movement is less and of course back movement is laughably nonexistant - but that's one reason I use sand through glass which helps me to not really feel bothered by it. Although that shouldn't be a forced choice in order to backwards dodge. Instead regarding moving IH to GM minor (see below), a new GM major trait could be created like Daredevils' dash trait that allows fast movement in any direction (maybe Elusive Mind could be reworked into this?). This would be analogous to how I believe Illusionary Ambush is sort of given as an alternative to Infinite Horizon (lol, like anyone isn't using IH right now... xD), Mirage Advance is given as an alternative to Axe 3, so Sand through Glass should be kind of an alternative to a new GM Major trait that allows a short range fast side or backward strafe while dodging.
  2. Ambush skill cast times - while they could do with tightenting up, I feel fairly comfortable with how they are at the moment. Chaos Vortex is only 1s, but could be sped up and reduced to 0.75s cast time. Imaginary Axes is like what, 0.5s? I have no issues with either, though would still welcome Chaos Vortex cast time at 0.75s instead of 1s.
  3. Axe 2 - I find the animation fine to cover with shorter mirage cloak, again complete 180 on my pre-patch concerns but honestly admit no issue here - so on that note I am perfectly happy with evade on axe 3 and leaving axe 2 animation alone (aside from maybe small damage buff or some quality of life).
  4. Axe ambush - facing context, this I find to be a bit clunky to have to flick the camera around every so often, especially after axe 2 in order to cast. Reliant on IH clones for axe ambush to have consistent damage application. I don't find it to be a huge problem in gameplay, just a little annoying - but as said IH clones carry axe so it is just about workable at the moment.
  5. Illusionary Ambush - far too long cooldown for the unpredictability, I feel stronger without it. Reminds me of how they nuked Well of Precognition out of the game when that was overpowered.
  6. Grandmaster Major traits - only Infinite Horizon exists; the other two are completely useless. Balance is such that Mirage without Infinite Horizon right now is well below standard - eg IH is mandatory in order to be effective. This is a huge problem - single biggest problem in my opinion.

Desired Changes - Important:

  1. Infinite Horizon as Grandmaster Minor - this is the NUMBER 1 change I strongly believe should be done for Mirage in order to balance the class. Obviously merge Speed of Sand into Adept Minor. I don't care what new trait needs to be made to fill the GM Major spot (possibly a trait that allows fast side/back strafe movement as an alternative to Sand through Glass pseudo backwards dodge) - do this, rebalance all ambushes then change Elusive Mind and tweak Dune Cloak if necessary to balance.
  2. Critical Infusion - restore to 5s on crit (10s icd) to be in line with all vigour traits again. No reason to have this at 3s following mirage cloak duration nerf.
  3. Jaunt - reduce charge cooldown to 20s in pvp/wvw (leave max count at 2). Again following mirage cloak nerf, the additional mobility from Jaunt is far more important than before and in hindsight wouldn't have had to be nerfed if you (Anet) had just nerfed mirage cloak first.

Desired Changes - Non-essential but would be nice:

  1. Sand through Glass - remove Immobilise before back leap - ensures ALWAYS leaping away from the mirror. The problem right now is when immobilised you don't move and break the mirror instantly which wastes the entire skill. I consider this to be a bug fix/quality of life feature to ensure the skill always has value and not wasted in this way.
  2. Mirage Advance - add 0.75s evade on cast to be in line with how Axe 3 works. Would make this skill worth using.
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