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Changes to improve mesmer (Buffs, Nerfs, QoL)


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@"Curunen.8729" said:Now that I have spent more time with Mirage post patch I have a better idea of how it is right now and also the few changes I would like to see (only mirage aside from critical infusion comment, but otherwise no comment on Core or Chrono in this post - don't want to dilute the focus of the post). Some of my previous opinions and concerns have changed drastically but I must be honest where possible and say it how it is in terms of my experience. :)

Disclaimer: wvw perspective with this build - ie food, 50% endurance energy sigils, 3 condi cleansing sigils, different adventurer rune, and finer stat customisation - so obviously have no idea how mirage is performing in pvp though appreciate it must be in a much worse state due to the differences - no food, worse energy sigils, rigid stats etc.

Observations:

  1. Mirage Cloak - I honestly feel comfortable with evade duration at 0.75s. Was worried about it being a problem but I have to hold my hands up and say I personally am not having any issue with it. Edit - for clarity it is the evade duration I'm talking about which I'm fine with - yes in terms of movement the side movement is less and of course back movement is laughably nonexistant - but that's one reason I use sand through glass which helps me to not really feel bothered by it. Although that shouldn't be a forced choice in order to backwards dodge. Instead regarding moving IH to GM minor (see below), a new GM major trait could be created like Daredevils' dash trait that allows fast movement in any direction (maybe Elusive Mind could be reworked into this?). This would be analogous to how I believe Illusionary Ambush is sort of given as an alternative to Infinite Horizon (lol, like anyone isn't using IH right now... xD), Mirage Advance is given as an alternative to Axe 3, so Sand through Glass should be kind of an alternative to a new GM Major trait that allows a short range fast side or backward strafe while dodging.
  2. Ambush skill cast times - while they could do with tightenting up, I feel fairly comfortable with how they are at the moment. Chaos Vortex is only 1s, but could be sped up and reduced to 0.75s cast time. Imaginary Axes is like what, 0.5s? I have no issues with either, though would still welcome Chaos Vortex cast time at 0.75s instead of 1s.
  3. Axe 2 - I find the animation fine to cover with shorter mirage cloak, again complete 180 on my pre-patch concerns but honestly admit no issue here - so on that note I am perfectly happy with evade on axe 3 and leaving axe 2 animation alone (aside from maybe small damage buff or some quality of life).
  4. Axe ambush - facing context, this I find to be a bit clunky to have to flick the camera around every so often, especially after axe 2 in order to cast. Reliant on IH clones for axe ambush to have consistent damage application. I don't find it to be a huge problem in gameplay, just a little annoying - but as said IH clones carry axe so it is just about workable at the moment.
  5. Illusionary Ambush - far too long cooldown for the unpredictability, I feel stronger without it. Reminds me of how they nuked Well of Precognition out of the game when that was overpowered.
  6. Grandmaster Major traits - only Infinite Horizon exists; the other two are completely useless. Balance is such that Mirage without Infinite Horizon right now is well below standard - eg IH is mandatory in order to be effective. This is a huge problem - single biggest problem in my opinion.

Desired Changes - Important:

  1. Infinite Horizon as Grandmaster Minor - this is the NUMBER 1 change I strongly believe should be done for Mirage in order to balance the class. Obviously merge Speed of Sand into Adept Minor. I don't care what new trait needs to be made to fill the GM Major spot (possibly a trait that allows fast side/back strafe movement as an alternative to Sand through Glass pseudo backwards dodge) - do this, rebalance all ambushes then change Elusive Mind and tweak Dune Cloak if necessary to balance.
  2. Critical Infusion - restore to 5s on crit (10s icd) to be in line with all vigour traits again. No reason to have this at 3s following mirage cloak duration nerf.
  3. Jaunt - reduce charge cooldown to 20s in pvp/wvw (leave max count at 2). Again following mirage cloak nerf, the additional mobility from Jaunt is far more important than before and in hindsight wouldn't have had to be nerfed if you (Anet) had just nerfed mirage cloak first.

Desired Changes - Non-essential but would be nice:

  1. Sand through Glass - remove Immobilise before back leap - ensures ALWAYS leaping away from the mirror. The problem right now is when immobilised you don't move and break the mirror instantly which wastes the entire skill. I consider this to be a bug fix/quality of life feature to ensure the skill always has value and not wasted in this way.
  2. Mirage Advance - add 0.75s evade on cast to be in line with how Axe 3 works. Would make this skill worth using.

StG I find absolutely terrible, I would live it to feel like withdraw, roll for initiative or rev roll, but it just doesn't. Should be longer anf maybe "smoother".

Mirage advance I would rather make it usable out of range and increase range, it is just unusable atm, which is sad because it has an amazing animation on asura. So bad compared to thief shadowstep.

I have a feeling that the purpose of the mirage utilities was to give shatter mesmer more mobility in order to compete with thief and rev. There is a lot of fun mobility to be had with StG, advance, and IA.

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I really like @Curunen.8729's suggestions too. Cutting back c/d on IA to 25s or 30s at most, Jaunt back to 20s (of all the recent changes to c/d, I feel this one the most), and making IH a minor while replacing it with something useful are no brainers. Maybe something with some condition mitigation as an alternative to EM (which itself could stand to be reworked), since Mirage rather lacks in that department.

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@"Curunen.8729" said:Now that I have spent more time with Mirage post patch I have a better idea of how it is right now and also the few changes I would like to see (only mirage aside from critical infusion comment, but otherwise no comment on Core or Chrono in this post - don't want to dilute the focus of the post). Some of my previous opinions and concerns have changed drastically but I must be honest where possible and say it how it is in terms of my experience. :)

Disclaimer: wvw perspective with
- ie food, 50% endurance energy sigils, 3 condi cleansing sigils, different adventurer rune, and finer stat customisation - so obviously have no idea how mirage is performing in pvp though appreciate it must be in a much worse state due to the differences - no food, worse energy sigils, rigid stats etc.

Observations:
  1. Mirage Cloak
    - I honestly feel comfortable with evade duration at 0.75s. Was worried about it being a problem but I have to hold my hands up and say I personally am not having any issue with it. Edit - for clarity it is the evade duration I'm talking about which I'm fine with - yes in terms of movement the side movement is less and of course back movement is laughably nonexistant - but that's one reason I use sand through glass which helps me to not really feel bothered by it. Although that shouldn't be a forced choice in order to backwards dodge. Instead regarding moving IH to GM minor (see below), a new GM major trait could be created like Daredevils' dash trait that allows fast movement in any direction (maybe Elusive Mind could be reworked into this?). This would be analogous to how I believe Illusionary Ambush is sort of given as an alternative to Infinite Horizon (lol, like anyone isn't using IH right now... xD), Mirage Advance is given as an alternative to Axe 3, so Sand through Glass should be kind of an alternative to a new GM Major trait that allows a short range fast side or backward strafe while dodging.
  2. Ambush skill cast times
    - while they could do with tightenting up, I feel fairly comfortable with how they are at the moment. Chaos Vortex is only 1s, but could be sped up and reduced to 0.75s cast time. Imaginary Axes is like what, 0.5s? I have no issues with either, though would still welcome Chaos Vortex cast time at 0.75s instead of 1s.
  3. Axe 2
    - I find the animation fine to cover with shorter mirage cloak, again complete 180 on my pre-patch concerns but honestly admit no issue here - so on that note I am perfectly happy with evade on axe 3 and leaving axe 2 animation alone (aside from maybe small damage buff or some quality of life).
  4. Axe ambush
    - facing context, this I find to be a bit clunky to have to flick the camera around every so often, especially after axe 2 in order to cast. Reliant on IH clones for axe ambush to have consistent damage application. I don't find it to be a huge problem in gameplay, just a little annoying - but as said IH clones carry axe so it is just about workable at the moment.
  5. Illusionary Ambush
    - far too long cooldown for the unpredictability, I feel stronger without it. Reminds me of how they nuked Well of Precognition out of the game when that was overpowered.
  6. Grandmaster Major traits
    -
    only Infinite Horizon exists
    ; the other two are completely useless. Balance is such that Mirage without Infinite Horizon right now is well below standard - eg IH is mandatory in order to be effective. This is a huge problem - single biggest problem in my opinion.

Desired Changes - Important:
  1. Infinite Horizon as Grandmaster Minor - this is the NUMBER 1 change I strongly believe should be done for Mirage
    in order to balance the class. Obviously merge Speed of Sand into Adept Minor. I don't care what new trait needs to be made to fill the GM Major spot (possibly a trait that allows fast side/back strafe movement as an alternative to Sand through Glass pseudo backwards dodge) - do this,
    rebalance all ambushes
    then change Elusive Mind and tweak Dune Cloak if necessary to balance.
  2. Critical Infusion
    - restore to 5s on crit (10s icd) to be in line with all vigour traits again. No reason to have this at 3s following mirage cloak duration nerf.
  3. Jaunt
    - reduce charge cooldown to 20s in pvp/wvw (leave max count at 2). Again following mirage cloak nerf, the additional mobility from Jaunt is far more important than before and in hindsight wouldn't have had to be nerfed if you (Anet) had just nerfed mirage cloak first.

Desired Changes - Non-essential but would be nice:
  1. Sand through Glass
    - remove Immobilise before back leap - ensures ALWAYS leaping away from the mirror. The problem right now is when immobilised you don't move and break the mirror instantly which wastes the entire skill. I consider this to be a bug fix/quality of life feature to ensure the skill always has value and not wasted in this way.
  2. Mirage Advance
    - add 0.75s evade on cast to be in line with how Axe 3 works. Would make this skill worth using.

StG I find absolutely terrible, I would live it to feel like withdraw, roll for initiative or rev roll, but it just doesn't. Should be longer anf maybe "smoother".

Mirage advance I would rather make it usable out of range and increase range, it is just unusable atm, which is sad because it has an amazing animation on asura. So bad compared to thief shadowstep.

I have a feeling that the purpose of the mirage utilities was to give shatter mesmer more mobility in order to compete with thief and rev. There is a lot of fun mobility to be had with StG, advance, and IA.

I agree StG could do with improvement, but having had it as a permanent slot on my utility bar for at least a year it has been extremely clutch in a lot of situations and often the difference between winning/losing a fight.

Smoother - yes I agree - it should immediately interrupt and take priority over any other skill/action being used instead of how it sometimes is at the moment where it doesn't function until after some other action has been completed. This I do find a bit annoying in practice.

One of the reasons I strongly disagree with any distance increase is because right now it lines up perfectly with axe 2 back through the mirror - actually axe 2 is slightly longer distance but still, if StG distance was increased too much you would have to run forward, maybe waste a dodge as well in order to make use of the mirror to cover a skill such as axe 2, heal or anything.

I think the distance is fine being shorter and more in line with normal backwards dodge - as well as lining up well with axe 2 and Jaunt. And of course synergising well with Infinite Horizon when you break the mirror.

Instead I think something like reducing cooldown to 20s, or maybe just giving it 2 ammo (symmetry with 2 ammo on axe 2) and see how that goes if it becomes more popular.Or an interesting change could be giving 1s stealth on backwards evade (and Reveal removal to always function), to then "surprise" when smashing back through the mirror.

The fact that at the moment it is my preferred Deception utility over all the others means it isn't that bad, but like all Deceptions right now could do with small improvements.

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@Curunen.8729 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:Now that I have spent more time with Mirage post patch I have a better idea of how it is right now and also the few changes I would like to see (only mirage aside from critical infusion comment, but otherwise no comment on Core or Chrono in this post - don't want to dilute the focus of the post). Some of my previous opinions and concerns have changed drastically but I must be honest where possible and say it how it is in terms of my experience. :)

Disclaimer: wvw perspective with
- ie food, 50% endurance energy sigils, 3 condi cleansing sigils, different adventurer rune, and finer stat customisation - so obviously have no idea how mirage is performing in pvp though appreciate it must be in a much worse state due to the differences - no food, worse energy sigils, rigid stats etc.

Observations:
  1. Mirage Cloak
    - I honestly feel comfortable with evade duration at 0.75s. Was worried about it being a problem but I have to hold my hands up and say I personally am not having any issue with it. Edit - for clarity it is the evade duration I'm talking about which I'm fine with - yes in terms of movement the side movement is less and of course back movement is laughably nonexistant - but that's one reason I use sand through glass which helps me to not really feel bothered by it. Although that shouldn't be a forced choice in order to backwards dodge. Instead regarding moving IH to GM minor (see below), a new GM major trait could be created like Daredevils' dash trait that allows fast movement in any direction (maybe Elusive Mind could be reworked into this?). This would be analogous to how I believe Illusionary Ambush is sort of given as an alternative to Infinite Horizon (lol, like anyone isn't using IH right now... xD), Mirage Advance is given as an alternative to Axe 3, so Sand through Glass should be kind of an alternative to a new GM Major trait that allows a short range fast side or backward strafe while dodging.
  2. Ambush skill cast times
    - while they could do with tightenting up, I feel fairly comfortable with how they are at the moment. Chaos Vortex is only 1s, but could be sped up and reduced to 0.75s cast time. Imaginary Axes is like what, 0.5s? I have no issues with either, though would still welcome Chaos Vortex cast time at 0.75s instead of 1s.
  3. Axe 2
    - I find the animation fine to cover with shorter mirage cloak, again complete 180 on my pre-patch concerns but honestly admit no issue here - so on that note I am perfectly happy with evade on axe 3 and leaving axe 2 animation alone (aside from maybe small damage buff or some quality of life).
  4. Axe ambush
    - facing context, this I find to be a bit clunky to have to flick the camera around every so often, especially after axe 2 in order to cast. Reliant on IH clones for axe ambush to have consistent damage application. I don't find it to be a huge problem in gameplay, just a little annoying - but as said IH clones carry axe so it is just about workable at the moment.
  5. Illusionary Ambush
    - far too long cooldown for the unpredictability, I feel stronger without it. Reminds me of how they nuked Well of Precognition out of the game when that was overpowered.
  6. Grandmaster Major traits
    -
    only Infinite Horizon exists
    ; the other two are completely useless. Balance is such that Mirage without Infinite Horizon right now is well below standard - eg IH is mandatory in order to be effective. This is a huge problem - single biggest problem in my opinion.

Desired Changes - Important:
  1. Infinite Horizon as Grandmaster Minor - this is the NUMBER 1 change I strongly believe should be done for Mirage
    in order to balance the class. Obviously merge Speed of Sand into Adept Minor. I don't care what new trait needs to be made to fill the GM Major spot (possibly a trait that allows fast side/back strafe movement as an alternative to Sand through Glass pseudo backwards dodge) - do this,
    rebalance all ambushes
    then change Elusive Mind and tweak Dune Cloak if necessary to balance.
  2. Critical Infusion
    - restore to 5s on crit (10s icd) to be in line with all vigour traits again. No reason to have this at 3s following mirage cloak duration nerf.
  3. Jaunt
    - reduce charge cooldown to 20s in pvp/wvw (leave max count at 2). Again following mirage cloak nerf, the additional mobility from Jaunt is far more important than before and in hindsight wouldn't have had to be nerfed if you (Anet) had just nerfed mirage cloak first.

Desired Changes - Non-essential but would be nice:
  1. Sand through Glass
    - remove Immobilise before back leap - ensures ALWAYS leaping away from the mirror. The problem right now is when immobilised you don't move and break the mirror instantly which wastes the entire skill. I consider this to be a bug fix/quality of life feature to ensure the skill always has value and not wasted in this way.
  2. Mirage Advance
    - add 0.75s evade on cast to be in line with how Axe 3 works. Would make this skill worth using.

StG I find absolutely terrible, I would live it to feel like withdraw, roll for initiative or rev roll, but it just doesn't. Should be longer anf maybe "smoother".

Mirage advance I would rather make it usable out of range and increase range, it is just unusable atm, which is sad because it has an amazing animation on asura. So bad compared to thief shadowstep.

I have a feeling that the purpose of the mirage utilities was to give shatter mesmer more mobility in order to compete with thief and rev. There is a lot of fun mobility to be had with StG, advance, and IA.

I agree StG could do with improvement, but having had it as a permanent slot on my utility bar for at least a year it has been extremely clutch in a lot of situations and often the difference between winning/losing a fight.

Smoother - yes I agree - it should immediately interrupt and take priority over any other skill/action being used instead of how it sometimes is at the moment where it doesn't function until after some other action has been completed. This I do find a bit annoying in practice.

One of the reasons I strongly disagree with any distance increase is because right now it lines up perfectly with axe 2 back through the mirror - actually axe 2 is slightly longer distance but still, if StG distance was increased too much you would have to run forward, maybe waste a dodge as well in order to make use of the mirror to cover a skill such as axe 2, heal or anything.

I think the distance is fine being shorter and more in line with normal backwards dodge - as well as lining up well with axe 2 and Jaunt. And of course synergising well with Infinite Horizon when you break the mirror.

Instead I think something like reducing cooldown to 20s, or maybe just giving it 2 ammo (symmetry with 2 ammo on axe 2) and see how that goes if it becomes more popular.Or an interesting change could be giving 1s stealth on backwards evade (and Reveal removal to always function), to then "surprise" when smashing back through the mirror.

The fact that at the moment it is my preferred Deception utility over all the others means it isn't that bad, but like all Deceptions right now could do with small improvements.

Ok. I would personally never take it over arcane thievery, SoM, SoI, IA, mantra, etc.

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@Quadox.7834 said:

  1. Delete chronophantasmaAlso Quadox is very right. Chrono bunker and chrono overall is a problem because of CHRONOPHANTASMA never been fixed and damage of phantasm been cut so hard. He gets double value of all on phantasms summon traits. They take conditions from inspiration twice as much giving insane condi cleanse potential .You get a lot of quickness and might from phantasm spawning and persistance of memory gives occasional boons from phantasms(not a real problem tbh) . Double spawn is . Can we count on phantasm slight buffs once CP is deleted ?Shield 4 also need attention , phantasm shouldnt be ever DENIED by evade,thats stupid ,its damage was nerfed to oblivion with 50% nerf.I tried to bring it up in all mesmer hate threads ages ago when rework happened but... evry mesmer hater was convienced i'm wrong of courseI would also decrease chaotic dampening protection to 3 sec.Said the same ;)
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@Quadox.7834 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:Now that I have spent more time with Mirage post patch I have a better idea of how it is right now and also the few changes I would like to see (only mirage aside from critical infusion comment, but otherwise no comment on Core or Chrono in this post - don't want to dilute the focus of the post). Some of my previous opinions and concerns have changed drastically but I must be honest where possible and say it how it is in terms of my experience. :)

Disclaimer: wvw perspective with
- ie food, 50% endurance energy sigils, 3 condi cleansing sigils, different adventurer rune, and finer stat customisation - so obviously have no idea how mirage is performing in pvp though appreciate it must be in a much worse state due to the differences - no food, worse energy sigils, rigid stats etc.

Observations:
  1. Mirage Cloak
    - I honestly feel comfortable with evade duration at 0.75s. Was worried about it being a problem but I have to hold my hands up and say I personally am not having any issue with it. Edit - for clarity it is the evade duration I'm talking about which I'm fine with - yes in terms of movement the side movement is less and of course back movement is laughably nonexistant - but that's one reason I use sand through glass which helps me to not really feel bothered by it. Although that shouldn't be a forced choice in order to backwards dodge. Instead regarding moving IH to GM minor (see below), a new GM major trait could be created like Daredevils' dash trait that allows fast movement in any direction (maybe Elusive Mind could be reworked into this?). This would be analogous to how I believe Illusionary Ambush is sort of given as an alternative to Infinite Horizon (lol, like anyone isn't using IH right now... xD), Mirage Advance is given as an alternative to Axe 3, so Sand through Glass should be kind of an alternative to a new GM Major trait that allows a short range fast side or backward strafe while dodging.
  2. Ambush skill cast times
    - while they could do with tightenting up, I feel fairly comfortable with how they are at the moment. Chaos Vortex is only 1s, but could be sped up and reduced to 0.75s cast time. Imaginary Axes is like what, 0.5s? I have no issues with either, though would still welcome Chaos Vortex cast time at 0.75s instead of 1s.
  3. Axe 2
    - I find the animation fine to cover with shorter mirage cloak, again complete 180 on my pre-patch concerns but honestly admit no issue here - so on that note I am perfectly happy with evade on axe 3 and leaving axe 2 animation alone (aside from maybe small damage buff or some quality of life).
  4. Axe ambush
    - facing context, this I find to be a bit clunky to have to flick the camera around every so often, especially after axe 2 in order to cast. Reliant on IH clones for axe ambush to have consistent damage application. I don't find it to be a huge problem in gameplay, just a little annoying - but as said IH clones carry axe so it is just about workable at the moment.
  5. Illusionary Ambush
    - far too long cooldown for the unpredictability, I feel stronger without it. Reminds me of how they nuked Well of Precognition out of the game when that was overpowered.
  6. Grandmaster Major traits
    -
    only Infinite Horizon exists
    ; the other two are completely useless. Balance is such that Mirage without Infinite Horizon right now is well below standard - eg IH is mandatory in order to be effective. This is a huge problem - single biggest problem in my opinion.

Desired Changes - Important:
  1. Infinite Horizon as Grandmaster Minor - this is the NUMBER 1 change I strongly believe should be done for Mirage
    in order to balance the class. Obviously merge Speed of Sand into Adept Minor. I don't care what new trait needs to be made to fill the GM Major spot (possibly a trait that allows fast side/back strafe movement as an alternative to Sand through Glass pseudo backwards dodge) - do this,
    rebalance all ambushes
    then change Elusive Mind and tweak Dune Cloak if necessary to balance.
  2. Critical Infusion
    - restore to 5s on crit (10s icd) to be in line with all vigour traits again. No reason to have this at 3s following mirage cloak duration nerf.
  3. Jaunt
    - reduce charge cooldown to 20s in pvp/wvw (leave max count at 2). Again following mirage cloak nerf, the additional mobility from Jaunt is far more important than before and in hindsight wouldn't have had to be nerfed if you (Anet) had just nerfed mirage cloak first.

Desired Changes - Non-essential but would be nice:
  1. Sand through Glass
    - remove Immobilise before back leap - ensures ALWAYS leaping away from the mirror. The problem right now is when immobilised you don't move and break the mirror instantly which wastes the entire skill. I consider this to be a bug fix/quality of life feature to ensure the skill always has value and not wasted in this way.
  2. Mirage Advance
    - add 0.75s evade on cast to be in line with how Axe 3 works. Would make this skill worth using.

StG I find absolutely terrible, I would live it to feel like withdraw, roll for initiative or rev roll, but it just doesn't. Should be longer anf maybe "smoother".

Mirage advance I would rather make it usable out of range and increase range, it is just unusable atm, which is sad because it has an amazing animation on asura. So bad compared to thief shadowstep.

I have a feeling that the purpose of the mirage utilities was to give shatter mesmer more mobility in order to compete with thief and rev. There is a lot of fun mobility to be had with StG, advance, and IA.

I agree StG could do with improvement, but having had it as a permanent slot on my utility bar for at least a year it has been extremely clutch in a lot of situations and often the difference between winning/losing a fight.

Smoother - yes I agree - it should immediately interrupt and take priority over any other skill/action being used instead of how it sometimes is at the moment where it doesn't function until after some other action has been completed. This I do find a bit annoying in practice.

One of the reasons I strongly disagree with any distance increase is because right now it lines up perfectly with axe 2 back through the mirror - actually axe 2 is slightly longer distance but still, if StG distance was increased too much you would have to run forward, maybe waste a dodge as well in order to make use of the mirror to cover a skill such as axe 2, heal or anything.

I think the distance is fine being shorter and more in line with normal backwards dodge - as well as lining up well with axe 2 and Jaunt. And of course synergising well with Infinite Horizon when you break the mirror.

Instead I think something like reducing cooldown to 20s, or maybe just giving it 2 ammo (symmetry with 2 ammo on axe 2) and see how that goes if it becomes more popular.Or an interesting change could be giving 1s stealth on backwards evade (and Reveal removal to always function), to then "surprise" when smashing back through the mirror.

The fact that at the moment it is my preferred Deception utility over all the others means it isn't that bad, but like all Deceptions right now could do with small improvements.

Ok. I would personally never take it over arcane thievery, SoM, SoI, IA, mantra, etc.

I think perspective depends on if you use axe or not. StG is good in melee range with axe as supplementary evade access.

I don't think StG works well with Sword, Scepter or Greatsword - hence the suggestion for a new GM major trait after moving IH to minor, that allows side/back strafe dash for mobility as an alternative for those weapons.

It is decent with staff as you can reverse phase retreat through the mirror (slightly longer distance so may have to move a bit), or even just running through the mirror has nice synergy with might stacking from IH staff ambush given it is likely to put you close to target again, in the path of clone ambushes. And further synergy with IH on axe, through mirror on lower cooldown than a lot of utility stunbreaks.

Also no worry about anti-synergy with Evasive Mirror reflect on evade - where things like SoM sometimes get broken immediately due to this proccing.

Part of me likes the fact it is not commonly used - safe from the community hatred and safe from being nerfed.

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@"Xstein.2187" said:
My Best Attempt at Unbiased Suggestions and Why
(please keep an open mind and read reasons why if you disagree) Please let me know what you think because I just spent a kitten ton of time on this and now have to wake up for work in 3.5 hours =)

Traits

Chaos

Metaphysical Rejuvenation: Reduce Health Threshold from 75% to 25%

Illusionary Membrane: Lower protection from 3 seconds to 2 seconds

Reasons: I am almost never for nerfing core. However, Chrono bunker needs to be balanced out and the Chrono line isn’t bringing any meaningful defense traits besides shield, which has already been nerfed and is close in line with shield options of other classes. Additionally, I am not a fan of passive affects like these on any class. A passive is not skillful gameplay. But don’t worry, I will try to balance out the Chaos trait line nerfs to compensate for core being nerfed if you read on. A lower % health threshold also allows for more counter play and fewer uses.

Chaotic Dampening: Reduce protection duration from 4 seconds to 1 second. Switch the places of ‘Chaotic Dampening’ with ‘Master of Manipulation’ in the Chaos trait line.

Bountiful Disillusionment: I will kinda come back to this one

Master of Manipulation: See
However, my favorite is the suggestion from Curunen.8729Master of Manipulation then goes into the old place of Chaotic Dampening

Reasons: This trait doesn’t even synergize with all the manipulation skills anyway. Therefore, this is a good opportunity to balance out the core Chaos trait line nerf due to Chrono bunker.

Auspicious Anguish: Increase cool down to 90 seconds

Reason: You have to remember that if you are bunkering or playing defensively, you can now take both ‘Auspicious Anguish’ and ‘Chaotic Dampening’. I also tried to balance these traits out so they are viable, adequate choices in their specific categories of the Chaos trait line.

Inspiration

No changes

Domination

Confounding Suggestions: Diversion now becomes an ammo skill (kinda like shatter storm in the illusion trait line)

Reason: This is only a suggestion that I don’t think is OP and is kinda cool and more usefull relative to the current Confounding Suggestions.

Rending Shatter: Vulnerability is increased to 2 stacks and time is reduced to 4 seconds.

Reasoning: I don’t think the original trait was bad. However, it has never been good enough to see very much use from many people as far as I am aware. If you are afraid of too much burst then don’t worry. We are going to reduce the burst from the chrono line to put some power back into the core trait lines instead of the elite specs while at the same time creating viable options and reducing the MAX potential burst available.

Egotism: Remake into a weak condi removal trait.Mental Anguish: Revert March 27, 2018 changes.

Reason: I am not a fan of basically point blank straight up damage boosting traits like these. I believe they lack creativity. Mental Anguish is also no longer a viable choice in the grandmaster tiers and adding a weak condi cleans spread out over different trait lines promotes more viable build diversity.

Dueling

Desperate Decoy: Either completely replace or reduce health threshold to 25% to match ‘Metaphysical Rejuvenation” and stop it from canceling other actions when triggered. If it is not possible to prevent cancelation with decoy, try to remove the decoy part and only give 3 seconds of stealth.

Reasons: Mesmers have long complained about this trait negatively interrupting when not wanted, causing them to die, making the trait a hazard. Lowering the health threshold will at bare minimum decrease the chance of it going off unless truly intended if the devs for whatever reason can’t find a way to stop the skill from canceling your actions.

Critical Infusions: Vigor is increased back to 5 seconds

Reasons: Besides perhaps Scepter, condi mirage is already nerfed fairly hard and I truly believe an extra 2 seconds of vigor on crit won’t make it OP. However, the main reason is that it is COMPLETELY unfair to the class and core Mesmer. ‘Vigorous Precision’ and ‘Renewing Stamina’ both do exactly the same thing with 5 seconds of vigor on other classes. Additionally, there are many, many other traits on other classes that give 5 seconds or more vigor.

Illusions

Persistence of Memory: I don’t personally understand how this skill is useful or a viable choice. Based on this, I would like to see it replaced by something that is. However, if anyone out there finds it useful, please don’t be afraid to chime in below.

Chronomancer

Illusionary Reversion: Reduce required clones to 2 and put an internal cool down on it.

Reasons: No one uses this competitively anymore and even before the May 16, 2017 patch, it only had a very niche use WHEN the old version of ‘Chronophantasm’ was paired with it.

Danger Time: Either applying slow removes a condition (same reason as egotism in domination) or reduce critical damage to 5% and increase critical damage to 20%

Lost Time: Reduce critical damage to 20%

Reason: It might seem like a big nerf on ‘Lost Time’ but 100% is ridiculous when combined with other critical hit damage % modifiers Mesmer has access to and Chrono burst is too high, causing a lack of counter play. Reverting the 14% Mirror Blade nerf on March 27, 2018 is also possible to compensate if needed.

Mirage

Speed of Sand: Merge with mirage cloak since ‘speed of sand’ just balances out for a normal dodge and replace it with ‘Infinite Horizon’. Ambush attacks may need rebalancing after this change. Replace the new open grandmaster slot with any viable choice that doesn’t make a build OP. Additionally, either increase the time of ‘speed of sand’ to 1 second (leaving dodge time the same) OR somehow make it so mirages can dodge backwards and to the side moving at the same speed as dodging forward.

Reasons: Mirage currently can only dodge sideways or strafe 135 units in a dodge time frame when other classes can go 300 units, a 55% reduction in dodge distance sideways. They are also only able to dodge 78.75 units backwards when other classes can go 300 units, a 73.75% reduction in distance?Math: Strafing:180 u/s X .75 sec = 135 units, Backpedaling: 105 u/s X .75 sec = 78.75 units. Dodge = 300 units. Strafing: ((300-135)/300)X100 = 55%, Backpedaling: ((300-78.75)/300)X100 = 73.75%

Elusive Mind: My favorite idea for this is making it so mirage can’t dodge while stunned, immobilized, knockbacked, or feared unless EM is traited and to have EM remove 1 condition on dodge while removing exhaustion from the trait. However, if this isn’t feasible, just remove the sun break/exhaustion and increase the number of removed conditions to 2. However, I believe the first option will make Mirage easier to balance (both buff and nerf) in the long run.

Skills
Portal: Reduce the Max number of allies going through to 3 or even 2 and revert the duration nerf.

Reason: The nerf has appeared to make it reliably unusable in PvP. However, it was constantly overshadowing other skills. Before, portal was traditionally a lot better in coordinated group play than solo. A change such as this would reduce this distinction. Some may argue that this would destroy the important coordinated portal plays that made portal so special. However, I believe there could still be important plays and that it was some of those highly coordinated plays that made portal so overshadowing in group play and hard to balance around to begin with.

Signet of Inspiration: This needs to be based on what boons the Mesmer has.

Reasons:
  1. Wells on their own are not viable in WvW due to movement. Really, in order to balance support Chrono in WvW without changing SoI would involve making ‘Bountiful Disillusionment” apply its boons to allies as well.
  2. In order for PvE support chrono to not feel as clunky, well boons would have to be pulsed at the start of well placement and ‘Tides of Time’ would have to produce both quickness and alacrity on the first wave. Making game play reactionary is important!!!!
  3. Consider Well radius would have to increase to 600 to make up for SoI , or compare to ‘Feel My Wrath’, or bare minimum 360 to compare to ‘Liberator’s Vow’. However, immobile wells are still a great hindrance compared to these skills as well. However, doing so would increase the visual clutter.

Changing SoI would help fix all these issues. However, fixing 1-3 is also a viable option.

There we go, that is it. I tried avoiding using exact numbers as much as possible for suggestions and feel like it would be best to balance most of the mirage skills after or if ‘Infinite Horizon’ is moved.

Nowwww GW2 Gods please help me!

Blessed be to Lyssa!

I only like confounding suggestions and critial infusion, plus maybe portal, rending shatter and mental anguish, out of all these.

Same, except the CS, while the ammo mechanic would be cool, this trait needs to convert daze into stun, there's no way around it, it was a staple to power mesmer and only dazing doesn't prevent dodge, so all setup is void.Perhaps my idea of converting diversion to stun + ammo and ICD would be cool I guess.

@"Curunen.8729" said:Now that I have spent more time with Mirage post patch I have a better idea of how it is right now and also the few changes I would like to see (only mirage aside from critical infusion comment, but otherwise no comment on Core or Chrono in this post - don't want to dilute the focus of the post). Some of my previous opinions and concerns have changed drastically but I must be honest where possible and say it how it is in terms of my experience. :)

Disclaimer: wvw perspective with this build - ie food, 50% endurance energy sigils, 3 condi cleansing sigils, different adventurer rune, and finer stat customisation - so obviously have no idea how mirage is performing in pvp though appreciate it must be in a much worse state due to the differences - no food, worse energy sigils, rigid stats etc.

Observations:

  1. Mirage Cloak - I honestly feel comfortable with evade duration at 0.75s. Was worried about it being a problem but I have to hold my hands up and say I personally am not having any issue with it. Edit - for clarity it is the evade duration I'm talking about which I'm fine with - yes in terms of movement the side movement is less and of course back movement is laughably nonexistant - but that's one reason I use sand through glass which helps me to not really feel bothered by it. Although that shouldn't be a forced choice in order to backwards dodge. Instead regarding moving IH to GM minor (see below), a new GM major trait could be created like Daredevils' dash trait that allows fast movement in any direction (maybe Elusive Mind could be reworked into this?). This would be analogous to how I believe Illusionary Ambush is sort of given as an alternative to Infinite Horizon (lol, like anyone isn't using IH right now... xD), Mirage Advance is given as an alternative to Axe 3, so Sand through Glass should be kind of an alternative to a new GM Major trait that allows a short range fast side or backward strafe while dodging.
  2. Ambush skill cast times - while they could do with tightenting up, I feel fairly comfortable with how they are at the moment. Chaos Vortex is only 1s, but could be sped up and reduced to 0.75s cast time. Imaginary Axes is like what, 0.5s? I have no issues with either, though would still welcome Chaos Vortex cast time at 0.75s instead of 1s.
  3. Axe 2 - I find the animation fine to cover with shorter mirage cloak, again complete 180 on my pre-patch concerns but honestly admit no issue here - so on that note I am perfectly happy with evade on axe 3 and leaving axe 2 animation alone (aside from maybe small damage buff or some quality of life).
  4. Axe ambush - facing context, this I find to be a bit clunky to have to flick the camera around every so often, especially after axe 2 in order to cast. Reliant on IH clones for axe ambush to have consistent damage application. I don't find it to be a huge problem in gameplay, just a little annoying - but as said IH clones carry axe so it is just about workable at the moment.
  5. Illusionary Ambush - far too long cooldown for the unpredictability, I feel stronger without it. Reminds me of how they nuked Well of Precognition out of the game when that was overpowered.
  6. Grandmaster Major traits - only Infinite Horizon exists; the other two are completely useless. Balance is such that Mirage without Infinite Horizon right now is well below standard - eg IH is mandatory in order to be effective. This is a huge problem - single biggest problem in my opinion.

Desired Changes - Important:

  1. Infinite Horizon as Grandmaster Minor - this is the NUMBER 1 change I strongly believe should be done for Mirage in order to balance the class. Obviously merge Speed of Sand into Adept Minor. I don't care what new trait needs to be made to fill the GM Major spot (possibly a trait that allows fast side/back strafe movement as an alternative to Sand through Glass pseudo backwards dodge) - do this, rebalance all ambushes then change Elusive Mind and tweak Dune Cloak if necessary to balance.
  2. Critical Infusion - restore to 5s on crit (10s icd) to be in line with all vigour traits again. No reason to have this at 3s following mirage cloak duration nerf.
  3. Jaunt - reduce charge cooldown to 20s in pvp/wvw (leave max count at 2). Again following mirage cloak nerf, the additional mobility from Jaunt is far more important than before and in hindsight wouldn't have had to be nerfed if you (Anet) had just nerfed mirage cloak first.

Desired Changes - Non-essential but would be nice:

  1. Sand through Glass - remove Immobilise before back leap - ensures ALWAYS leaping away from the mirror. The problem right now is when immobilised you don't move and break the mirror instantly which wastes the entire skill. I consider this to be a bug fix/quality of life feature to ensure the skill always has value and not wasted in this way.
  2. Mirage Advance - add 0.75s evade on cast to be in line with how Axe 3 works. Would make this skill worth using.

Disagree with MCand ambushes. Chaos Vortex still leaves you with half of the skill uncovered. Plus there is scepter and gs ambushes which are 1,5sec leaving you about 1 sec uncovered. Either reduce ambush cast by 0.25sec minimum too or revert MC.Axe2 will leave you uncovered on the aftercast if you press it at same time, some delay will leave you open during animation. This needs to be 1/2sec now.StG I understand your pov, it does well with axe like you said and with jaunt (I hate spending resources to get resources tho). With everything else it feels weak. So add a small range of 50 or so and we'll see.MA - still think add quickness for a burst or remove cast time.

Everything else I agree.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"Xstein.2187" said:
My Best Attempt at Unbiased Suggestions and Why
(please keep an open mind and read reasons why if you disagree) Please let me know what you think because I just spent a kitten ton of time on this and now have to wake up for work in 3.5 hours =)

Traits

Chaos

Metaphysical Rejuvenation: Reduce Health Threshold from 75% to 25%

Illusionary Membrane: Lower protection from 3 seconds to 2 seconds

Reasons: I am almost never for nerfing core. However, Chrono bunker needs to be balanced out and the Chrono line isn’t bringing any meaningful defense traits besides shield, which has already been nerfed and is close in line with shield options of other classes. Additionally, I am not a fan of passive affects like these on any class. A passive is not skillful gameplay. But don’t worry, I will try to balance out the Chaos trait line nerfs to compensate for core being nerfed if you read on. A lower % health threshold also allows for more counter play and fewer uses.

Chaotic Dampening: Reduce protection duration from 4 seconds to 1 second. Switch the places of ‘Chaotic Dampening’ with ‘Master of Manipulation’ in the Chaos trait line.

Bountiful Disillusionment: I will kinda come back to this one

Master of Manipulation: See
However, my favorite is the suggestion from Curunen.8729Master of Manipulation then goes into the old place of Chaotic Dampening

Reasons: This trait doesn’t even synergize with all the manipulation skills anyway. Therefore, this is a good opportunity to balance out the core Chaos trait line nerf due to Chrono bunker.

Auspicious Anguish: Increase cool down to 90 seconds

Reason: You have to remember that if you are bunkering or playing defensively, you can now take both ‘Auspicious Anguish’ and ‘Chaotic Dampening’. I also tried to balance these traits out so they are viable, adequate choices in their specific categories of the Chaos trait line.

Inspiration

No changes

Domination

Confounding Suggestions: Diversion now becomes an ammo skill (kinda like shatter storm in the illusion trait line)

Reason: This is only a suggestion that I don’t think is OP and is kinda cool and more usefull relative to the current Confounding Suggestions.

Rending Shatter: Vulnerability is increased to 2 stacks and time is reduced to 4 seconds.

Reasoning: I don’t think the original trait was bad. However, it has never been good enough to see very much use from many people as far as I am aware. If you are afraid of too much burst then don’t worry. We are going to reduce the burst from the chrono line to put some power back into the core trait lines instead of the elite specs while at the same time creating viable options and reducing the MAX potential burst available.

Egotism: Remake into a weak condi removal trait.Mental Anguish: Revert March 27, 2018 changes.

Reason: I am not a fan of basically point blank straight up damage boosting traits like these. I believe they lack creativity. Mental Anguish is also no longer a viable choice in the grandmaster tiers and adding a weak condi cleans spread out over different trait lines promotes more viable build diversity.

Dueling

Desperate Decoy: Either completely replace or reduce health threshold to 25% to match ‘Metaphysical Rejuvenation” and stop it from canceling other actions when triggered. If it is not possible to prevent cancelation with decoy, try to remove the decoy part and only give 3 seconds of stealth.

Reasons: Mesmers have long complained about this trait negatively interrupting when not wanted, causing them to die, making the trait a hazard. Lowering the health threshold will at bare minimum decrease the chance of it going off unless truly intended if the devs for whatever reason can’t find a way to stop the skill from canceling your actions.

Critical Infusions: Vigor is increased back to 5 seconds

Reasons: Besides perhaps Scepter, condi mirage is already nerfed fairly hard and I truly believe an extra 2 seconds of vigor on crit won’t make it OP. However, the main reason is that it is COMPLETELY unfair to the class and core Mesmer. ‘Vigorous Precision’ and ‘Renewing Stamina’ both do exactly the same thing with 5 seconds of vigor on other classes. Additionally, there are many, many other traits on other classes that give 5 seconds or more vigor.

Illusions

Persistence of Memory: I don’t personally understand how this skill is useful or a viable choice. Based on this, I would like to see it replaced by something that is. However, if anyone out there finds it useful, please don’t be afraid to chime in below.

Chronomancer

Illusionary Reversion: Reduce required clones to 2 and put an internal cool down on it.

Reasons: No one uses this competitively anymore and even before the May 16, 2017 patch, it only had a very niche use WHEN the old version of ‘Chronophantasm’ was paired with it.

Danger Time: Either applying slow removes a condition (same reason as egotism in domination) or reduce critical damage to 5% and increase critical damage to 20%

Lost Time: Reduce critical damage to 20%

Reason: It might seem like a big nerf on ‘Lost Time’ but 100% is ridiculous when combined with other critical hit damage % modifiers Mesmer has access to and Chrono burst is too high, causing a lack of counter play. Reverting the 14% Mirror Blade nerf on March 27, 2018 is also possible to compensate if needed.

Mirage

Speed of Sand: Merge with mirage cloak since ‘speed of sand’ just balances out for a normal dodge and replace it with ‘Infinite Horizon’. Ambush attacks may need rebalancing after this change. Replace the new open grandmaster slot with any viable choice that doesn’t make a build OP. Additionally, either increase the time of ‘speed of sand’ to 1 second (leaving dodge time the same) OR somehow make it so mirages can dodge backwards and to the side moving at the same speed as dodging forward.

Reasons: Mirage currently can only dodge sideways or strafe 135 units in a dodge time frame when other classes can go 300 units, a 55% reduction in dodge distance sideways. They are also only able to dodge 78.75 units backwards when other classes can go 300 units, a 73.75% reduction in distance?Math: Strafing:180 u/s X .75 sec = 135 units, Backpedaling: 105 u/s X .75 sec = 78.75 units. Dodge = 300 units. Strafing: ((300-135)/300)X100 = 55%, Backpedaling: ((300-78.75)/300)X100 = 73.75%

Elusive Mind: My favorite idea for this is making it so mirage can’t dodge while stunned, immobilized, knockbacked, or feared unless EM is traited and to have EM remove 1 condition on dodge while removing exhaustion from the trait. However, if this isn’t feasible, just remove the sun break/exhaustion and increase the number of removed conditions to 2. However, I believe the first option will make Mirage easier to balance (both buff and nerf) in the long run.

Skills
Portal: Reduce the Max number of allies going through to 3 or even 2 and revert the duration nerf.

Reason: The nerf has appeared to make it reliably unusable in PvP. However, it was constantly overshadowing other skills. Before, portal was traditionally a lot better in coordinated group play than solo. A change such as this would reduce this distinction. Some may argue that this would destroy the important coordinated portal plays that made portal so special. However, I believe there could still be important plays and that it was some of those highly coordinated plays that made portal so overshadowing in group play and hard to balance around to begin with.

Signet of Inspiration: This needs to be based on what boons the Mesmer has.

Reasons:
  1. Wells on their own are not viable in WvW due to movement. Really, in order to balance support Chrono in WvW without changing SoI would involve making ‘Bountiful Disillusionment” apply its boons to allies as well.
  2. In order for PvE support chrono to not feel as clunky, well boons would have to be pulsed at the start of well placement and ‘Tides of Time’ would have to produce both quickness and alacrity on the first wave. Making game play reactionary is important!!!!
  3. Consider Well radius would have to increase to 600 to make up for SoI , or compare to ‘Feel My Wrath’, or bare minimum 360 to compare to ‘Liberator’s Vow’. However, immobile wells are still a great hindrance compared to these skills as well. However, doing so would increase the visual clutter.

Changing SoI would help fix all these issues. However, fixing 1-3 is also a viable option.

There we go, that is it. I tried avoiding using exact numbers as much as possible for suggestions and feel like it would be best to balance most of the mirage skills after or if ‘Infinite Horizon’ is moved.

Nowwww GW2 Gods please help me!

Blessed be to Lyssa!

I only like confounding suggestions and critial infusion, plus maybe portal, rending shatter and mental anguish, out of all these.

Same, except the CS, while the ammo mechanic would be cool, this trait needs to convert daze into stun, there's no way around it, it was a staple to power mesmer and only dazing doesn't prevent dodge, so all setup is void.Perhaps my idea of converting diversion to stun + ammo and ICD would be cool I guess.

@"Curunen.8729" said:Now that I have spent more time with Mirage post patch I have a better idea of how it is right now and also the few changes I would like to see (only mirage aside from critical infusion comment, but otherwise no comment on Core or Chrono in this post - don't want to dilute the focus of the post). Some of my previous opinions and concerns have changed drastically but I must be honest where possible and say it how it is in terms of my experience. :)

Disclaimer: wvw perspective with
- ie food, 50% endurance energy sigils, 3 condi cleansing sigils, different adventurer rune, and finer stat customisation - so obviously have no idea how mirage is performing in pvp though appreciate it must be in a much worse state due to the differences - no food, worse energy sigils, rigid stats etc.

Observations:
  1. Mirage Cloak
    - I honestly feel comfortable with evade duration at 0.75s. Was worried about it being a problem but I have to hold my hands up and say I personally am not having any issue with it. Edit - for clarity it is the evade duration I'm talking about which I'm fine with - yes in terms of movement the side movement is less and of course back movement is laughably nonexistant - but that's one reason I use sand through glass which helps me to not really feel bothered by it. Although that shouldn't be a forced choice in order to backwards dodge. Instead regarding moving IH to GM minor (see below), a new GM major trait could be created like Daredevils' dash trait that allows fast movement in any direction (maybe Elusive Mind could be reworked into this?). This would be analogous to how I believe Illusionary Ambush is sort of given as an alternative to Infinite Horizon (lol, like anyone isn't using IH right now... xD), Mirage Advance is given as an alternative to Axe 3, so Sand through Glass should be kind of an alternative to a new GM Major trait that allows a short range fast side or backward strafe while dodging.
  2. Ambush skill cast times
    - while they could do with tightenting up, I feel fairly comfortable with how they are at the moment. Chaos Vortex is only 1s, but could be sped up and reduced to 0.75s cast time. Imaginary Axes is like what, 0.5s? I have no issues with either, though would still welcome Chaos Vortex cast time at 0.75s instead of 1s.
  3. Axe 2
    - I find the animation fine to cover with shorter mirage cloak, again complete 180 on my pre-patch concerns but honestly admit no issue here - so on that note I am perfectly happy with evade on axe 3 and leaving axe 2 animation alone (aside from maybe small damage buff or some quality of life).
  4. Axe ambush
    - facing context, this I find to be a bit clunky to have to flick the camera around every so often, especially after axe 2 in order to cast. Reliant on IH clones for axe ambush to have consistent damage application. I don't find it to be a huge problem in gameplay, just a little annoying - but as said IH clones carry axe so it is just about workable at the moment.
  5. Illusionary Ambush
    - far too long cooldown for the unpredictability, I feel stronger without it. Reminds me of how they nuked Well of Precognition out of the game when that was overpowered.
  6. Grandmaster Major traits
    -
    only Infinite Horizon exists
    ; the other two are completely useless. Balance is such that Mirage without Infinite Horizon right now is well below standard - eg IH is mandatory in order to be effective. This is a huge problem - single biggest problem in my opinion.

Desired Changes - Important:
  1. Infinite Horizon as Grandmaster Minor - this is the NUMBER 1 change I strongly believe should be done for Mirage
    in order to balance the class. Obviously merge Speed of Sand into Adept Minor. I don't care what new trait needs to be made to fill the GM Major spot (possibly a trait that allows fast side/back strafe movement as an alternative to Sand through Glass pseudo backwards dodge) - do this,
    rebalance all ambushes
    then change Elusive Mind and tweak Dune Cloak if necessary to balance.
  2. Critical Infusion
    - restore to 5s on crit (10s icd) to be in line with all vigour traits again. No reason to have this at 3s following mirage cloak duration nerf.
  3. Jaunt
    - reduce charge cooldown to 20s in pvp/wvw (leave max count at 2). Again following mirage cloak nerf, the additional mobility from Jaunt is far more important than before and in hindsight wouldn't have had to be nerfed if you (Anet) had just nerfed mirage cloak first.

Desired Changes - Non-essential but would be nice:
  1. Sand through Glass
    - remove Immobilise before back leap - ensures ALWAYS leaping away from the mirror. The problem right now is when immobilised you don't move and break the mirror instantly which wastes the entire skill. I consider this to be a bug fix/quality of life feature to ensure the skill always has value and not wasted in this way.
  2. Mirage Advance
    - add 0.75s evade on cast to be in line with how Axe 3 works. Would make this skill worth using.

Disagree with MCand ambushes. Chaos Vortex still leaves you with half of the skill uncovered. Plus there is scepter and gs ambushes which are 1,5sec leaving you about 1 sec uncovered. Either reduce ambush cast by 0.25sec minimum too or revert MC.Axe2 will leave you uncovered on the aftercast if you press it at same time, some delay will leave you open during animation. This needs to be 1/2sec now.StG I understand your pov, it does well with axe like you said and with jaunt (I hate spending resources to get resources tho). With everything else it feels weak. So add a small range of 50 or so and we'll see.MA - still think add quickness for a burst or remove cast time.

Everything else I agree.

Yeah I appreciate I completely changed my opinion regarding things like axe 2 and mirage cloak - was expecting it to be much worse but in practice have been ok with it.

Yes on one hand I do prefer the thematic difference of longer 1s dodge but less frequent (ie they should have just not put vigour on the spec at all and it could have been fine). Part of me does wish Anet would have kept it at 1s because as you say it is the elite spec mechanic and would have been the unique defining feature - if they could have instead just continued to shave the frequency of access, even indirectly like energy sigils.

But on the other hand through playing more I don't mind some of axe 2 being exposed as I can time the dodge to avoid the most damage and haven't had issues using axe post patch (apart from the ambush direction change). But yeah would also not be opposed to faster axe 2 animation.

Overall these aren't the main things that bother me about mirage - instead it's forced IH, and Jaunt/IA nerfs that have had the most annoying impact.

For ambushes - I think it's only Scepter and GS that have the extremely long times and should be reduced. Staff also yes should be a little faster as mentioned. Axe ambush I think is solid in terms of cast time, aside for the direction context which is only saved by IH clones.

But again regarding ambushes - IH carries the entire spec right now such that fortunately it isn't crucial to get the player ambush off, as clones make up for it. If that changed in any way then all the issues with getting player ambushes off would suddenly become very apparent.

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Already wrote what I thought (and actually there is around 3/4 post like this theses past 3 months with relativly the same content.) : https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65258/suggestion-balancing-mesmers#latest70% stay the same after patch.Btw about this thread page 2 discussions on chaos line :It's not by touching illusionary membrane that you balance chrono and core but by fixing chronophantasma.

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i seriously hope most of the suggestions in this thread aren't look at cus they are horrible and won't work in real gameplay or are not reasonable/fair lol

like nerfing scepter 3 is the worst thing i've ever read. It's the 2nd SLOWEST skill in the game after warrior's hundred blades but it's damage is not even top 5. It does LESS DAMAGE than MAUL which is a 4 second cd skill that buffs your pet and is aoeit does less dmg than rapid fire which has nearly double range, nearly double damage and casts faster (because ranger can also have quickness on demand)

scepter has always been a decent hybrid damage weapon unlike STAFF which is purely condi / utility or axe which is mostly condi or sword which is only power. Nerfing scepter KILLS AN ARCHETYPE and that's not how you should do these things, having the option to play hybrid should be there because condi only builds are weak (and i'd know cus i played deadshot amulet for a few days just to try new builds out recently)

scepter 3's damage is pathetic when compared to almost anything in the game > almost any warrior f1 skill, almost any rampage skill, backstab from thief, deaths judgement, rapid fire, maul, deathblow, etc etc and so on, there are just so many better skills.

as for CHAOS traitline, chaos is overrated and without that signet thing not even viable , just annoying / boring

people in this game have been taught so badly and should seriously stop cheering for "REWORK LOL" reworking stuff that's popular is punishing loyal/old playerbase. IT DOESNT BRING ANY NEW PLAYERS

I CAN ASSURE YOU THERE ARE NO PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED GW2 WHO ARE LIKE "HMM IF THEY REWORKED MESMER CHAOS ILL COME PLAY THIS GAME LOL"but it does make people QUIT the game. I have quitted/rerolled so many times because of reworks in this game. If you ask me CHAOS ISNT EVEN VIABLE because the meta is dmg , dmg and more dmg, unless you're a scrapper.

the only way it brings old gw2 players back is if the new reworked version is more op than the old one and then the existing gw2 players will get pissed instead

@Safandula.8723 said:

OH boys. I'm also annoyed by ignorance. Got few friends thay play mirage(all Plat) and, all agrees mirage is broken.

not in EU you don't..

short guide on how to fix mesmer

revert axe ambush changes (the number of hits and the unable to flank)rework sand shardsrevert elusive mind to 3 sec exhaustion instead 6rework the 3 useless deception utilitiesbuff the condi application for all other classes so that there's more than just mirage in the game so that the hate isnt centered at miragenerf all power dmg cus its too broken ,nerf ferocity and some power skills on other classes

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@Xstein.2187 said:Chaos Line: Ya I agree. However, I still think it is a good idea to delete 'Auspicious Anguish', replace it with Curunun's version of 'Master of Manipulation', and then come up with a new trait in the 'major adept' category. Additionally, we NEED to find some way to nerf Chrono bunker. However, if Curunun is right about the chaos trait line, then the only reasonable potential nerf from there would be 'Chaotic Dampening'. I mean . . . I highly doubt the devs would be ok with just nerfing 'Decent into Madness'. However, we really need to find a way to nerf Bunker Chrono ASAP before the devs do. If someone wants to nerf chrono bunker before the devs do without touching the chaos line then plz come up with some ideas. I'm fairly open to any ideas.

Well... again... If you want to nerf Chrono, nerf Chrono. Get rid of Protection on Shield. Or nerf Continuum-Split.

Don't get me wrong. CS is an awesome mechanic. But it made balancing Mesmer so damn difficult, it is not even funny. If they'd at least replaced F4 with it so that there is a trade-off, people might complain less. Again... it's not what I want. But I really don't want to see anything non-Chrono be nerfed because of Chrono.

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@"Curunen.8729" said:Desired Changes - Important:

  1. Infinite Horizon as Grandmaster Minor - this is the NUMBER 1 change I strongly believe should be done for Mirage in order to balance the class. Obviously merge Speed of Sand into Adept Minor. I don't care what new trait needs to be made to fill the GM Major spot (possibly a trait that allows fast side/back strafe movement as an alternative to Sand through Glass pseudo backwards dodge) - do this, rebalance all ambushes then change Elusive Mind and tweak Dune Cloak if necessary to balance.
  2. Critical Infusion - restore to 5s on crit (10s icd) to be in line with all vigour traits again. No reason to have this at 3s following mirage cloak duration nerf.
  3. Jaunt - reduce charge cooldown to 20s in pvp/wvw (leave max count at 2). Again following mirage cloak nerf, the additional mobility from Jaunt is far more important than before and in hindsight wouldn't have had to be nerfed if you (Anet) had just nerfed mirage cloak first.

I agree.

I also wouldn't mind Jaunt losing any kind of damage as long as I get more mobility out of it. I'd rather see more condition removal.

I had an idea for Elusive Mind. Not directly dodge-related, though."Remove 1 Condition when creating a Mirage Mirror. Reduce the CD of Distortion by x seconds when gaining Mirage Cloak."

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@"incisorr.9502" said:i seriously hope most of the suggestions in this thread aren't look at cus they are horrible and won't work in real gameplay or are not reasonable/fair lol

like nerfing scepter 3 is the worst thing i've ever read. It's the 2nd SLOWEST skill in the game after warrior's hundred blades but it's damage is not even top 5. It does LESS DAMAGE than MAUL which is a 4 second cd skill that buffs your pet and is aoeit does less dmg than rapid fire which has nearly double range, nearly double damage and casts faster (because ranger can also have quickness on demand)

scepter has always been a decent hybrid damage weapon unlike STAFF which is purely condi / utility or axe which is mostly condi or sword which is only power. Nerfing scepter KILLS AN ARCHETYPE and that's not how you should do these things, having the option to play hybrid should be there because condi only builds are weak (and i'd know cus i played deadshot amulet for a few days just to try new builds out recently)

scepter 3's damage is pathetic when compared to almost anything in the game > almost any warrior f1 skill, almost any rampage skill, backstab from thief, deaths judgement, rapid fire, maul, deathblow, etc etc and so on, there are just so many better skills.

as for CHAOS traitline, chaos is overrated and without that signet thing not even viable , just annoying / boring

people in this game have been taught so badly and should seriously stop cheering for "REWORK LOL" reworking stuff that's popular is punishing loyal/old playerbase. IT DOESNT BRING ANY NEW PLAYERS

I CAN ASSURE YOU THERE ARE NO PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED GW2 WHO ARE LIKE "HMM IF THEY REWORKED MESMER CHAOS ILL COME PLAY THIS GAME LOL"but it does make people QUIT the game. I have quitted/rerolled so many times because of reworks in this game. If you ask me CHAOS ISNT EVEN VIABLE because the meta is dmg , dmg and more dmg, unless you're a scrapper.

the only way it brings old gw2 players back is if the new reworked version is more op than the old one and then the existing gw2 players will get pissed instead

OH boys. I'm also annoyed by ignorance. Got few friends thay play mirage(all Plat) and, all agrees mirage is broken.

not in EU you don't..

short guide on how to fix mesmer

revert axe ambush changes (the number of hits and the unable to flank)rework sand shardsrevert elusive mind to 3 sec exhaustion instead 6rework the 3 useless deception utilitiesbuff the condi application for all other classes so that there's more than just mirage in the game so that the hate isnt centered at miragenerf all power dmg cus its too broken ,nerf ferocity and some power skills on other classes

Tldr, but:

  1. Staff is also hybrid power/condi dmg. Reason for nerfing scepter power and buffing its condi is because the condi on it is much weaker. When scepter is used on power burst chrono you know something is wrong.
  2. Ferocity is alredy objectively one of the worst stats.
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@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:Chaos Line: Ya I agree. However, I still think it is a good idea to delete 'Auspicious Anguish', replace it with Curunun's version of 'Master of Manipulation', and then come up with a new trait in the 'major adept' category. Additionally, we NEED to find some way to nerf Chrono bunker. However, if Curunun is right about the chaos trait line, then the only reasonable potential nerf from there would be 'Chaotic Dampening'. I mean . . . I highly doubt the devs would be ok with just nerfing 'Decent into Madness'. However, we really need to find a way to nerf Bunker Chrono ASAP before the devs do. If someone wants to nerf chrono bunker before the devs do without touching the chaos line then plz come up with some ideas. I'm fairly open to any ideas.

Well... again... If you want to nerf Chrono, nerf Chrono. Get rid of Protection on Shield. Or nerf Continuum-Split.

Don't get me wrong. CS is an awesome mechanic. But it made balancing Mesmer so kitten difficult, it is not even funny. If they'd at least replaced F4 with it so that there is a trade-off, people might complain less. Again... it's not what I want. But I really don't want to see anything non-Chrono be nerfed because of Chrono.

Yaaa, that was a mistake. I didn't even think about the protection from the phantasm. That's why I shouldn't do stuff when I'm too tired =)I also believe it is the nerf that I, and maybe others here, were looking for. aah, I'm so stupid. I actually think you could fix chrono bunker with this alone

I'm ok with nerfing scepter a little, but you have to be careful. It should still be a viable choice. If this is nerfed, I also don't want it nerfed because of bunker chrono for the same reason.

I agree that CS is one of those things that would have been much easier to work around, but they already made so many changes because of it, especially in PvE. So, at this time it is best just to leave it alone.

Chronophantama: This is a tricky one. Right now this is on 50%. Right now 'Imagined Burden' is basically at 50% as well (just handled and stated differently), and Imagined Burden gives you the 20% reduced recharge. However, obviously Imagined Burden doesn't work with every kind of phantasm. Therefore, I don't think it necessarily needs to be changed and protection from shield would be enough. Nerfing it would also indirectly nerf PvE power chrono, which I don't and I'm sure not many play, buuut ya I wouldn't want it indirectly nerfed, so the phantasms would have to be buffed to compensate.

If this was changed into a new trait:

  1. It couldn't deal with increasing damage or increasing damage as much as chronophantasma currently does because that is the reason it would be changed in the first place.
  2. I couldn't increase the defensive bunkering capabilities of bunker chrono
  3. It would have to be a viable choice from the major grandmaster tier
  4. It would preferably fit in with the 'chronomancer' theme

They could also split the damage on chronophantasma between PvE/WvW and PvP such as (35%/50%)However, if they didn't, Phantasmal Swordsman and Phantasmal Warden could be buffed to compensate.Obviously my preferred choice is just to remove the protection on shield phantasm

Now, this is veerry iffffy buuut the only idea I could come up with for a trait replacement that sorta matches numbers 1-3 is this:

Wormhole: casting 'continuum split' casts 'portal entre'. Casting Continuum split again (not continuum shift) would cast 'portal exeunt'. ONLY chronomancers can travel through this portal, including enemy chronomancers ;)lol I really struggled coming up with an idea for a new trait that meets the above criteria (at least a little). However, basically this means you would have to wait 105 seconds (recharge time of CS) to be able to cast portal exeunt. There would also be a specific time window frame after CS comes off cool down before your initial portal entre disappears. Not sure if this would even be possible to program. Just having some fun comping up with some ideas.

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@Xaylin.1860 said:

@Xstein.2187 said:Chaos Line: Ya I agree. However, I still think it is a good idea to delete 'Auspicious Anguish', replace it with Curunun's version of 'Master of Manipulation', and then come up with a new trait in the 'major adept' category. Additionally, we NEED to find some way to nerf Chrono bunker. However, if Curunun is right about the chaos trait line, then the only reasonable potential nerf from there would be 'Chaotic Dampening'. I mean . . . I highly doubt the devs would be ok with just nerfing 'Decent into Madness'. However, we really need to find a way to nerf Bunker Chrono ASAP before the devs do. If someone wants to nerf chrono bunker before the devs do without touching the chaos line then plz come up with some ideas. I'm fairly open to any ideas.

Well... again... If you want to nerf Chrono, nerf Chrono. Get rid of Protection on Shield. Or nerf Continuum-Split.

Don't get me wrong. CS is an awesome mechanic. But it made balancing Mesmer so kitten difficult, it is not even funny. If they'd at least replaced F4 with it so that there is a trade-off, people might complain less. Again... it's not what I want. But I really don't want to see anything non-Chrono be nerfed because of Chrono.Your nerf calls on chaos and especially INSANELY long cooldown on CS that supposed to be unique mechanic ...we can use so rarely or everyone else can deny our unique elite mechanic via CCing mesmer/destroying mote... thats ridiculous. Do you even play mesmer ?Its been told what caused nerfs by 50%(chronophantasma) that anet chosen to do instead of dealing with the core problem as THEY ALWAYS DO!This is insane stupid when they dont want to rework something that causing REAL PROBLEM because they want to keep it for PVE because power chrono wouldnt be viable anymore and support spec alrdy fallen out of meta thanks to their desire to push POF specs as FB/Renegade which does better than chrono and druid.

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@"incisorr.9502" said:i seriously hope most of the suggestions in this thread aren't look at cus they are horrible and won't work in real gameplay or are not reasonable/fair lol

like nerfing scepter 3 is the worst thing i've ever read. It's the 2nd SLOWEST skill in the game after warrior's hundred blades but it's damage is not even top 5. It does LESS DAMAGE than MAUL which is a 4 second cd skill that buffs your pet and is aoeit does less dmg than rapid fire which has nearly double range, nearly double damage and casts faster (because ranger can also have quickness on demand)

scepter has always been a decent hybrid damage weapon unlike STAFF which is purely condi / utility or axe which is mostly condi or sword which is only power. Nerfing scepter KILLS AN ARCHETYPE and that's not how you should do these things, having the option to play hybrid should be there because condi only builds are weak (and i'd know cus i played deadshot amulet for a few days just to try new builds out recently)

scepter 3's damage is pathetic when compared to almost anything in the game > almost any warrior f1 skill, almost any rampage skill, backstab from thief, deaths judgement, rapid fire, maul, deathblow, etc etc and so on, there are just so many better skills.

as for CHAOS traitline, chaos is overrated and without that signet thing not even viable , just annoying / boring

people in this game have been taught so badly and should seriously stop cheering for "REWORK LOL" reworking stuff that's popular is punishing loyal/old playerbase. IT DOESNT BRING ANY NEW PLAYERS

I CAN ASSURE YOU THERE ARE NO PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED GW2 WHO ARE LIKE "HMM IF THEY REWORKED MESMER CHAOS ILL COME PLAY THIS GAME LOL"but it does make people QUIT the game. I have quitted/rerolled so many times because of reworks in this game. If you ask me CHAOS ISNT EVEN VIABLE because the meta is dmg , dmg and more dmg, unless you're a scrapper.

the only way it brings old gw2 players back is if the new reworked version is more op than the old one and then the existing gw2 players will get pissed instead

@"Safandula.8723" said:

OH boys. I'm also annoyed by ignorance. Got few friends thay play mirage(all Plat) and, all agrees mirage is broken.

not in EU you don't..

short guide on how to fix mesmer

revert axe ambush changes (the number of hits and the unable to flank)rework sand shardsrevert elusive mind to 3 sec exhaustion instead 6rework the 3 useless deception utilitiesbuff the condi application for all other classes so that there's more than just mirage in the game so that the hate isnt centered at miragenerf all power dmg cus its too broken ,nerf ferocity and some power skills on other classes

scepter is "decent", "hybrid" weapon so it can 1 shot if ur zerk/marauder.now: lets make a skill. u cast it on someone and, over his head appears big red skull (may be flowers, w/e), if u dont dodge after 3 seconds, u instantly die. is it good balance? u got 3 full seconds to dodge, no way u cant evade it. no its not good design/balance cuz there are always some circumstances when u will get the hit. no skill should be doing so much dmg. getting + by scepter 3, specially if mesmer has quickness is nothing fun to play against. u instantly lose half of hp, from 1 button press, plz no"but mom! not fun to play against should not be a reason to take my toys away" - wrong! not sure if i should explain why, but thinking like this is incorrect, and no single skil should do so much harm

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Main ConcernBesides mirage, may main concern is changing Signet of inspiration so that it is based on what boons the mesmer has instead of your allies.I know this is a pretty obvious change. However, this change wouldn't buff PvE chrono's boon output (maintaining balance). However, it would be a HUGE quality of life change. Additionally, it would greatly help out WvW support chrono.

Minor non-mirage ConcernFix mass invisibility from revealing you from mirror on the 'master of manipulations' trait when mass invisibility is a manipulation trait. Come on guys. This problem has been around for what seems like forever now. Counter productions like this shouldn't exist in the game.

p.s. I crossed out adsnfas my chrono bunker chaos nerfs from my initial post. Sorry about that, I would have said just to nerf the protection from shield phantasm if I remembered it. If the chaos line is nerfed instead of shield phantasm or the chrono line, feel free to castigate and exile me ;)Thank You!

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@"incisorr.9502" said:i seriously hope most of the suggestions in this thread aren't look at cus they are horrible and won't work in real gameplay or are not reasonable/fair lol

like nerfing scepter 3 is the worst thing i've ever read. It's the 2nd SLOWEST skill in the game after warrior's hundred blades but it's damage is not even top 5. It does LESS DAMAGE than MAUL which is a 4 second cd skill that buffs your pet and is aoeit does less dmg than rapid fire which has nearly double range, nearly double damage and casts faster (because ranger can also have quickness on demand)

scepter has always been a decent hybrid damage weapon unlike STAFF which is purely condi / utility or axe which is mostly condi or sword which is only power. Nerfing scepter KILLS AN ARCHETYPE and that's not how you should do these things, having the option to play hybrid should be there because condi only builds are weak (and i'd know cus i played deadshot amulet for a few days just to try new builds out recently)

scepter 3's damage is pathetic when compared to almost anything in the game > almost any warrior f1 skill, almost any rampage skill, backstab from thief, deaths judgement, rapid fire, maul, deathblow, etc etc and so on, there are just so many better skills.

as for CHAOS traitline, chaos is overrated and without that signet thing not even viable , just annoying / boring

people in this game have been taught so badly and should seriously stop cheering for "REWORK LOL" reworking stuff that's popular is punishing loyal/old playerbase. IT DOESNT BRING ANY NEW PLAYERS

I CAN ASSURE YOU THERE ARE NO PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED GW2 WHO ARE LIKE "HMM IF THEY REWORKED MESMER CHAOS ILL COME PLAY THIS GAME LOL"but it does make people QUIT the game. I have quitted/rerolled so many times because of reworks in this game. If you ask me CHAOS ISNT EVEN VIABLE because the meta is dmg , dmg and more dmg, unless you're a scrapper.

the only way it brings old gw2 players back is if the new reworked version is more op than the old one and then the existing gw2 players will get pissed instead

OH boys. I'm also annoyed by ignorance. Got few friends thay play mirage(all Plat) and, all agrees mirage is broken.

not in EU you don't..

short guide on how to fix mesmer

revert axe ambush changes (the number of hits and the unable to flank)rework sand shardsrevert elusive mind to 3 sec exhaustion instead 6rework the 3 useless deception utilitiesbuff the condi application for all other classes so that there's more than just mirage in the game so that the hate isnt centered at miragenerf all power dmg cus its too broken ,nerf ferocity and some power skills on other classes

Tldr, but:
  1. Staff is also hybrid power/condi dmg. Reason for nerfing scepter power and buffing its condi is because the condi on it is much weaker. When scepter is used on power burst chrono you know something is wrong.
  2. Ferocity is alredy objectively one of the worst stats.

i used scepter on power mirage too, don't see the problem?

condi mirages used SWORD back in the day so not a very good argument

@Safandula.8723 said:

@"incisorr.9502" said:i seriously hope most of the suggestions in this thread aren't look at cus they are horrible and won't work in real gameplay or are not reasonable/fair lol

like nerfing scepter 3 is the worst thing i've ever read. It's the 2nd SLOWEST skill in the game after warrior's hundred blades but it's damage is not even top 5. It does LESS DAMAGE than MAUL which is a 4 second cd skill that buffs your pet and is aoeit does less dmg than rapid fire which has nearly double range, nearly double damage and casts faster (because ranger can also have quickness on demand)

scepter has always been a decent hybrid damage weapon unlike STAFF which is purely condi / utility or axe which is mostly condi or sword which is only power. Nerfing scepter KILLS AN ARCHETYPE and that's not how you should do these things, having the option to play hybrid should be there because condi only builds are weak (and i'd know cus i played deadshot amulet for a few days just to try new builds out recently)

scepter 3's damage is pathetic when compared to almost anything in the game > almost any warrior f1 skill, almost any rampage skill, backstab from thief, deaths judgement, rapid fire, maul, deathblow, etc etc and so on, there are just so many better skills.

as for CHAOS traitline, chaos is overrated and without that signet thing not even viable , just annoying / boring

people in this game have been taught so badly and should seriously stop cheering for "REWORK LOL" reworking stuff that's popular is punishing loyal/old playerbase. IT DOESNT BRING ANY NEW PLAYERS

I CAN ASSURE YOU THERE ARE NO PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED GW2 WHO ARE LIKE "HMM IF THEY REWORKED MESMER CHAOS ILL COME PLAY THIS GAME LOL"but it does make people QUIT the game. I have quitted/rerolled so many times because of reworks in this game. If you ask me CHAOS ISNT EVEN VIABLE because the meta is dmg , dmg and more dmg, unless you're a scrapper.

the only way it brings old gw2 players back is if the new reworked version is more op than the old one and then the existing gw2 players will get pissed instead

OH boys. I'm also annoyed by ignorance. Got few friends thay play mirage(all Plat) and, all agrees mirage is broken.

not in EU you don't..

short guide on how to fix mesmer

revert axe ambush changes (the number of hits and the unable to flank)rework sand shardsrevert elusive mind to 3 sec exhaustion instead 6rework the 3 useless deception utilitiesbuff the condi application for all other classes so that there's more than just mirage in the game so that the hate isnt centered at miragenerf all power dmg cus its too broken ,nerf ferocity and some power skills on other classes

scepter is "decent", "hybrid" weapon so it can 1 shot if ur zerk/marauder.now: lets make a skill. u cast it on someone and, over his head appears big red skull (may be flowers, w/e), if u dont dodge after 3 seconds, u instantly die. is it good balance? u got 3 full seconds to dodge, no way u cant evade it. no its not good design/balance cuz there are always some circumstances when u will get the hit. no skill should be doing so much dmg. getting + by scepter 3, specially if mesmer has quickness is nothing fun to play against. u instantly lose half of hp, from 1 button press, plz no"but mom! not fun to play against should not be a reason to take my toys away" - wrong! not sure if i should explain why, but thinking like this is incorrect, and no single skil should do so much harm

except scepter doesn't oneshot anything

with 25 might stacks and marauder it does less damage than ranger with sickem and no might stacks does with maul, what goes for rapid fire which is way more from nearly double range

its ok to post stuff but you're just blatantly lying and exaggerating to stellar proportions.

as i mentioned in my own post

scepter 3's damage is pathetic when compared to almost anything in the game > almost any warrior f1 skill, almost any rampage skill, backstab from thief, deaths judgement, rapid fire, maul, deathblow, etc etc and so on, there are just so many better skills.

revenant with enhanced daggers and impossible odds can do 20k damage with ONE skill with +50% cast speed (cus of quickness)

scepter 3's damage was BUFFED and cast sped was REDUCED in one of the more recent patches so even arena net wanted the skill to be more like 100b. You can't say " scepter 3 does 10k damage " without mentioning its cast time, which is the second longest in the game and it's super slow. By that logic then they should just revert the " buff " on the skill and make it cast faster but do less damage ( and then it'll be arguably better cus u still get the same confusion stacks anyway but it's faster )

the skill is unusable without trait and even then it isnt even top 5 highest dmg skills in the game while being 2nd slowest cast time in the game, how about you have some objectivity the next time and not overlook whatever facts dont fit your narrative? if you're gonna make a statement that its dmg is high that means you're comparing it to the rest of the skills in the game but oddly enough not to the skills that easily outdamage it

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@incisorr.9502 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:i seriously hope most of the suggestions in this thread aren't look at cus they are horrible and won't work in real gameplay or are not reasonable/fair lol

like nerfing scepter 3 is the worst thing i've ever read. It's the 2nd SLOWEST skill in the game after warrior's hundred blades but it's damage is not even top 5. It does LESS DAMAGE than MAUL which is a 4 second cd skill that buffs your pet and is aoeit does less dmg than rapid fire which has nearly double range, nearly double damage and casts faster (because ranger can also have quickness on demand)

scepter has always been a decent hybrid damage weapon unlike STAFF which is purely condi / utility or axe which is mostly condi or sword which is only power. Nerfing scepter KILLS AN ARCHETYPE and that's not how you should do these things, having the option to play hybrid should be there because condi only builds are weak (and i'd know cus i played deadshot amulet for a few days just to try new builds out recently)

scepter 3's damage is pathetic when compared to almost anything in the game > almost any warrior f1 skill, almost any rampage skill, backstab from thief, deaths judgement, rapid fire, maul, deathblow, etc etc and so on, there are just so many better skills.

as for CHAOS traitline, chaos is overrated and without that signet thing not even viable , just annoying / boring

people in this game have been taught so badly and should seriously stop cheering for "REWORK LOL" reworking stuff that's popular is punishing loyal/old playerbase. IT DOESNT BRING ANY NEW PLAYERS

I CAN ASSURE YOU THERE ARE NO PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED GW2 WHO ARE LIKE "HMM IF THEY REWORKED MESMER CHAOS ILL COME PLAY THIS GAME LOL"but it does make people QUIT the game. I have quitted/rerolled so many times because of reworks in this game. If you ask me CHAOS ISNT EVEN VIABLE because the meta is dmg , dmg and more dmg, unless you're a scrapper.

the only way it brings old gw2 players back is if the new reworked version is more op than the old one and then the existing gw2 players will get pissed instead

OH boys. I'm also annoyed by ignorance. Got few friends thay play mirage(all Plat) and, all agrees mirage is broken.

not in EU you don't..

short guide on how to fix mesmer

revert axe ambush changes (the number of hits and the unable to flank)rework sand shardsrevert elusive mind to 3 sec exhaustion instead 6rework the 3 useless deception utilitiesbuff the condi application for all other classes so that there's more than just mirage in the game so that the hate isnt centered at miragenerf all power dmg cus its too broken ,nerf ferocity and some power skills on other classes

Tldr, but:
  1. Staff is also hybrid power/condi dmg. Reason for nerfing scepter power and buffing its condi is because the condi on it is much weaker. When scepter is used on power burst chrono you know something is wrong.
  2. Ferocity is alredy objectively one of the worst stats.

i used scepter on power mirage too, don't see the problem?Yes, thanks for making the argument for me.

condi mirages used SWORD back in the day so not a very good argumentBecause sword was better than any alternatives on all builds, even builds that thematically fit better with scepter like hybrid or condition builds. This told anet to buff scepter and/or nerf sword - both of which they did.

@incisorr.9502 said:i seriously hope most of the suggestions in this thread aren't look at cus they are horrible and won't work in real gameplay or are not reasonable/fair lol

like nerfing scepter 3 is the worst thing i've ever read. It's the 2nd SLOWEST skill in the game after warrior's hundred blades but it's damage is not even top 5. It does LESS DAMAGE than MAUL which is a 4 second cd skill that buffs your pet and is aoeit does less dmg than rapid fire which has nearly double range, nearly double damage and casts faster (because ranger can also have quickness on demand)

scepter has always been a decent hybrid damage weapon unlike STAFF which is purely condi / utility or axe which is mostly condi or sword which is only power. Nerfing scepter KILLS AN ARCHETYPE and that's not how you should do these things, having the option to play hybrid should be there because condi only builds are weak (and i'd know cus i played deadshot amulet for a few days just to try new builds out recently)

scepter 3's damage is pathetic when compared to almost anything in the game > almost any warrior f1 skill, almost any rampage skill, backstab from thief, deaths judgement, rapid fire, maul, deathblow, etc etc and so on, there are just so many better skills.

as for CHAOS traitline, chaos is overrated and without that signet thing not even viable , just annoying / boring

people in this game have been taught so badly and should seriously stop cheering for "REWORK LOL" reworking stuff that's popular is punishing loyal/old playerbase. IT DOESNT BRING ANY NEW PLAYERS

I CAN ASSURE YOU THERE ARE NO PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED GW2 WHO ARE LIKE "HMM IF THEY REWORKED MESMER CHAOS ILL COME PLAY THIS GAME LOL"but it does make people QUIT the game. I have quitted/rerolled so many times because of reworks in this game. If you ask me CHAOS ISNT EVEN VIABLE because the meta is dmg , dmg and more dmg, unless you're a scrapper.

the only way it brings old gw2 players back is if the new reworked version is more op than the old one and then the existing gw2 players will get pissed instead

OH boys. I'm also annoyed by ignorance. Got few friends thay play mirage(all Plat) and, all agrees mirage is broken.

not in EU you don't..

short guide on how to fix mesmer

revert axe ambush changes (the number of hits and the unable to flank)rework sand shardsrevert elusive mind to 3 sec exhaustion instead 6rework the 3 useless deception utilitiesbuff the condi application for all other classes so that there's more than just mirage in the game so that the hate isnt centered at miragenerf all power dmg cus its too broken ,nerf ferocity and some power skills on other classes

scepter is "decent", "hybrid" weapon so it can 1 shot if ur zerk/marauder.now: lets make a skill. u cast it on someone and, over his head appears big red skull (may be flowers, w/e), if u dont dodge after 3 seconds, u instantly die. is it good balance? u got 3 full seconds to dodge, no way u cant evade it. no its not good design/balance cuz there are always some circumstances when u will get the hit. no skill should be doing so much dmg. getting + by scepter 3, specially if mesmer has quickness is nothing fun to play against. u instantly lose half of hp, from 1 button press, plz no"but mom! not fun to play against should not be a reason to take my toys away" - wrong! not sure if i should explain why, but thinking like this is incorrect, and no single skil should do so much harm

except scepter doesn't oneshot anything

with 25 might stacks and marauder it does less damage than ranger with sickem and no might stacks does with maul, what goes for rapid fire which is way more from nearly double range

its ok to post stuff but you're just blatantly lying and exaggerating to stellar proportions.

as i mentioned in my own post

scepter 3's damage is pathetic when compared to almost anything in the game > almost any warrior f1 skill, almost any rampage skill, backstab from thief, deaths judgement, rapid fire, maul, deathblow, etc etc and so on, there are just so many better skills.

revenant with enhanced daggers and impossible odds can do 20k damage with ONE skill with +50% cast speed (cus of quickness)

scepter 3's damage was BUFFED and cast sped was REDUCED in one of the more recent patches so even arena net wanted the skill to be more like 100b. You can't say " scepter 3 does 10k damage " without mentioning its cast time, which is the second longest in the game and it's super slow. By that logic then they should just revert the " buff " on the skill and make it cast faster but do less damage ( and then it'll be arguably better cus u still get the same confusion stacks anyway but it's faster )

the skill is unusable without trait and even then it isnt even top 5 highest dmg skills in the game while being 2nd slowest cast time in the game, how about you have some objectivity the next time and not overlook whatever facts dont fit your narrative? if you're gonna make a statement that its dmg is high that means you're comparing it to the rest of the skills in the game but oddly enough not to the skills that easily outdamage it
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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Added @Xstein.2187 @viquing.8254 @Xaylin.1860 consensual suggestions to the first post.

Thanks LincolnbeardI hate to say this, but I can’t enforce how important it is not to be biased or too unrealistic. Unfortunately, the list of ‘consensual’ buffs you have make the Mesmer community look REALLY bias as a whole, even if it is a large collection of ideas. Realistically, I would like to see your original post split into 3 different parts: Buffs, Nerfs, Quality of Life/trait redo. I know you think the list of buffs is ‘consensual’. However, I’m sure if you took this list outside of the Mesmer forums, that concept would quickly deteriorate. Try not to take this as me telling you what to do though. The original post is yours do with as you will. I would just personally rather have a larger chance of the devs taking it seriously rather than just seeing it as a big list of buffs and scoffing it off. Splitting it into sections like this might help though. Realistically, I feel that 95% of buffs are not going to happen, quality of life changes/trait changes at least have a much larger percent chance of happening, lol and I hope they consider the nerfs (besides my chaos ones) instead of ruining traits like they did with EM.

  1. Xaylin and I both agreed that the protection from the shield phantasm is the best way the nerf chrono bunker and no one posted any disagreements. Did you disagree with it?

  2. Would you or Quadox mind going over why you didn’t like the suggested Signet of Inspiration change (If you didn’t or think it is nonconsensual, Quadox’s statement was very vague)? Right now you don’t have a screen telling you what buffs your allies have, making the skill’s effects unpredictable. Additionally, having the current SoI in effect places a lot greater role of how effective they are into the hands of the Mesmer’s allies instead of the skill level of the Mesmer itself. No other class is like this. Unless you have another idea to fix this issue?

  3. I don’t think I explained my shield change very good, so I am going to do it now. One of the main reasons ‘shield is clunky’ is that you now have to wait for the shield to return to you to get alacrity. Therefore, this messes up when you can reliably use SoI. When I said ‘split’, I meant put 1 sec quickness and 1 second of alacrity on the first wave and 1 sec quickness and 1 sec alacrity on the return wave. This is instead of 2 seconds quickness out and 2 sec alacrity in. This makes shield more versatile and fixes the clunky issue since you would no longer have to wait for the return wave to use SoI. Additionally, like the suggested SoI change, this is quality of life and not a buff. Therefore, it would be more likely to happen. Unless you have another idea?

  4. I wouldn’t mind confounding suggestions going back to a stun as well. However, they nerfed it for a reason. I suggested making it an ammo skill as a compromise. If the devs nerfed the former confounding suggestions, there is no way in hell they are going to make it both stun and an ammo skill like you want it to be, or even just a stun, which is why an ICD was suggested with the stun.

  5. Do you mind going over why you don’t like Curunun’s master of manipulation trait idea if you have time?

  6. What I consider quality of life/trait redos would include: Signet of Inspiration change, Tides of Time change, Elusive Mind change (trait redo), Portal (trait redo), Curunun’s master of manipulation if balanced properly), Crystal sands (depending on your skill idea), Confounding Suggestions (only if ammo skill or if stun with ICD), Mirage Advance: just reducing cast time is what I would call Quality of Life, Illusionary Ambush: just removing randomness, Ambushes: reduced cast times, Lingering thoughts reduced cast time, Restorative Mantras, and Protected Phantasms changes.

Questionable/very, very weak buffsMirror Images?Desperate Decoy not canceling actions?Arcane Thievery?Temperor Curtain: after cast

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@Xstein.2187 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Added @Xstein.2187 @viquing.8254 @Xaylin.1860 consensual suggestions to the first post.

Thanks LincolnbeardI hate to say this, but I can’t enforce how important it is not to be biased or too unrealistic. Unfortunately, the list of ‘consensual’ buffs you have make the Mesmer community look REALLY bias as a whole, even if it is a large collection of ideas. Realistically, I would like to see your original post split into 3 different parts: Buffs, Nerfs, Quality of Life/trait redo. I know you think the list of buffs is ‘consensual’. However, I’m sure if you took this list outside of the Mesmer forums, that concept would quickly deteriorate. Try not to take this as me telling you what to do though. The original post is yours do with as you will. I would just personally rather have a larger chance of the devs taking it seriously rather than just seeing it as a big list of buffs and scoffing it off. Splitting it into sections like this might help though. Realistically, I feel that 95% of buffs are not going to happen, quality of life changes/trait changes at least have a much larger percent chance of happening, lol and I hope they consider the nerfs (besides my chaos ones) instead of ruining traits like they did with EM.
  1. Xaylin and I both agreed that the protection from the shield phantasm is the best way the nerf chrono bunker and no one posted any disagreements. Did you disagree with it?
  2. Would you or Quadox mind going over why you didn’t like the suggested Signet of Inspiration change (If you didn’t or think it is nonconsensual, Quadox’s statement was very vague)? Right now you don’t have a screen telling you what buffs your allies have, making the skill’s effects unpredictable. Additionally, having the current SoI in effect places a lot greater role of how effective they are into the hands of the Mesmer’s allies instead of the skill level of the Mesmer itself. No other class is like this. Unless you have another idea to fix this issue?
  3. I don’t think I explained my shield change very good, so I am going to do it now. One of the main reasons ‘shield is clunky’ is that you now have to wait for the shield to return to you to get alacrity. Therefore, this messes up when you can reliably use SoI. When I said ‘split’, I meant put 1 sec quickness and 1 second of alacrity on the first wave and 1 sec quickness and 1 sec alacrity on the return wave. This is instead of 2 seconds quickness out and 2 sec alacrity in. This makes shield more versatile and fixes the clunky issue since you would no longer have to wait for the return wave to use SoI. Additionally, like the suggested SoI change, this is quality of life and not a buff. Therefore, it would be more likely to happen. Unless you have another idea?
  4. I wouldn’t mind confounding suggestions going back to a stun as well. However, they nerfed it for a reason. I suggested making it an ammo skill as a compromise. If the devs nerfed the former confounding suggestions, there is no way in hell they are going to make it both stun and an ammo skill like you want it to be, or even just a stun, which is why an ICD was suggested with the stun.
  5. Do you mind going over why you don’t like Curunun’s master of manipulation trait idea if you have time?
  6. What I consider quality of life/trait redos would include: Signet of Inspiration change, Tides of Time change, Elusive Mind change (trait redo), Portal (trait redo), Curunun’s master of manipulation if balanced properly), Crystal sands (depending on your skill idea), Confounding Suggestions (only if ammo skill or if stun with ICD), Mirage Advance: just reducing cast time is what I would call Quality of Life, Illusionary Ambush: just removing randomness, Ambushes: reduced cast times, Lingering thoughts reduced cast time, Restorative Mantras, and Protected Phantasms changes.

Questionable/very, very weak buffsMirror Images?Desperate Decoy not canceling actions?Arcane Thievery?Temperor Curtain: after cast

“Nerfs (only applicable in case of last patch revert otherwise scrap this)”I would personally suggest removing this statement as it is an unrealistic expectation for an entire patch to be reverted and as I said, chrono bunker will likely get nerfed weather we like it or not and chrono burst is a very strong possibility.

I would say mesmer community is the least biased of all professions.I already said this numerous times but here it is again, go to some other profession forums and you'll facepalm to how unrealistic and op some suggestions are.I always give thief forums examples, when pof was released they wanted 1800 or 2000 rifle range, instagib backstab, 15 endurance cost each dodge on daredevil, 18 initiative traited, initiative full on weapon swap and so on.As for the first post, I don't consider it mine nor I consider this thread mine - most of suggestions aren't mine, like the post says it was a compilation of ideas thrown around by mesmers on forums - Curunen, Odik, Solori, Apharma, Quadox, Mortrialus, Viquing, now yours and Xyalin. Sorry if I forgot someone, it was not on purpose.I think my only idea was to convert diversion to stun on confounding suggestions.I feel like you're pretty optimistic, I would say only some of the nerfs part will make it into the game.

1 - I agree with Odik and Quadox on that one, I think the right approach would be to rework chrono phantasms into something else first, this will not only nerf chrono but will allow later a buff to phantasms as a whole, join in Viquing staff phantasm idea and I think it would resolve most of the problems.

2 - I don't understand your SoI suggestion nor do I use SoI to know the implications of a change, so I'll leave that to someone who plays it.

3 - This one seems fine to me.

4 - I liked and added your CS suggestion, I think a only diversion is converted to stun will solve the previous issue, sw ambush and mantra no longer triggers stuns. Like the post says power mesmers setup the burst with F3 so this is a revert in that sense and still maintaining the random stuns at bay.

5 - Hadn't read Curunen's take on Mom, seems fine to me, might add later to the first post, currently I'm on phone and it's too much effort and might kitten something up.

6 - Yes, I think I've deleted some stuff on nerfs so I can erase the statement later.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Added @Xstein.2187 @viquing.8254 @Xaylin.1860 consensual suggestions to the first post.

Thanks LincolnbeardI hate to say this, but I can’t enforce how important it is not to be biased or too unrealistic. Unfortunately, the list of ‘consensual’ buffs you have make the Mesmer community look REALLY bias as a whole, even if it is a large collection of ideas. Realistically, I would like to see your original post split into 3 different parts: Buffs, Nerfs, Quality of Life/trait redo. I know you think the list of buffs is ‘consensual’. However, I’m sure if you took this list outside of the Mesmer forums, that concept would quickly deteriorate. Try not to take this as me telling you what to do though. The original post is yours do with as you will. I would just personally rather have a larger chance of the devs taking it seriously rather than just seeing it as a big list of buffs and scoffing it off. Splitting it into sections like this might help though. Realistically, I feel that 95% of buffs are not going to happen, quality of life changes/trait changes at least have a much larger percent chance of happening, lol and I hope they consider the nerfs (besides my chaos ones) instead of ruining traits like they did with EM.
  1. Xaylin and I both agreed that the protection from the shield phantasm is the best way the nerf chrono bunker and no one posted any disagreements. Did you disagree with it?
  2. Would you or Quadox mind going over why you didn’t like the suggested Signet of Inspiration change (If you didn’t or think it is nonconsensual, Quadox’s statement was very vague)? Right now you don’t have a screen telling you what buffs your allies have, making the skill’s effects unpredictable. Additionally, having the current SoI in effect places a lot greater role of how effective they are into the hands of the Mesmer’s allies instead of the skill level of the Mesmer itself. No other class is like this. Unless you have another idea to fix this issue?
  3. I don’t think I explained my shield change very good, so I am going to do it now. One of the main reasons ‘shield is clunky’ is that you now have to wait for the shield to return to you to get alacrity. Therefore, this messes up when you can reliably use SoI. When I said ‘split’, I meant put 1 sec quickness and 1 second of alacrity on the first wave and 1 sec quickness and 1 sec alacrity on the return wave. This is instead of 2 seconds quickness out and 2 sec alacrity in. This makes shield more versatile and fixes the clunky issue since you would no longer have to wait for the return wave to use SoI. Additionally, like the suggested SoI change, this is quality of life and not a buff. Therefore, it would be more likely to happen. Unless you have another idea?
  4. I wouldn’t mind confounding suggestions going back to a stun as well. However, they nerfed it for a reason. I suggested making it an ammo skill as a compromise. If the devs nerfed the former confounding suggestions, there is no way in hell they are going to make it both stun and an ammo skill like you want it to be, or even just a stun, which is why an ICD was suggested with the stun.
  5. Do you mind going over why you don’t like Curunun’s master of manipulation trait idea if you have time?
  6. What I consider quality of life/trait redos would include: Signet of Inspiration change, Tides of Time change, Elusive Mind change (trait redo), Portal (trait redo), Curunun’s master of manipulation if balanced properly), Crystal sands (depending on your skill idea), Confounding Suggestions (only if ammo skill or if stun with ICD), Mirage Advance: just reducing cast time is what I would call Quality of Life, Illusionary Ambush: just removing randomness, Ambushes: reduced cast times, Lingering thoughts reduced cast time, Restorative Mantras, and Protected Phantasms changes.

Questionable/very, very weak buffsMirror Images?Desperate Decoy not canceling actions?Arcane Thievery?Temperor Curtain: after cast

“Nerfs (only applicable in case of last patch revert otherwise scrap this)”I would personally suggest removing this statement as it is an unrealistic expectation for an entire patch to be reverted and as I said, chrono bunker will likely get nerfed weather we like it or not and chrono burst is a very strong possibility.

I would say mesmer community is the least biased of all professions.I already said this numerous times but here it is again, go to some other profession forums and you'll facepalm to how unrealistic and op some suggestions are.I always give thief forums examples, when pof was released they wanted 1800 or 2000 rifle range, instagib backstab, 15 endurance cost each dodge on daredevil, 18 initiative traited, initiative full on weapon swap and so on.As for the first post, I don't consider it mine nor I consider this thread mine - most of suggestions aren't mine, like the post says it was a compilation of ideas thrown around by mesmers on forums - Curunen, Odik, Solori, Apharma, Quadox, Viquing, now yours and Xyalin. Sorry if I forgot someone, it was not on purpose.I think my only idea was to convert diversion to stun on confounding suggestions.I feel like you're pretty optimistic, I would say only some of the nerfs part will make it into the game.

1 - I agree with Odik and Quadox on that one, I think the right approach would be to rework chrono phantasms into something else first, this will not only nerf chrono but will allow later a buff to phantasms as a whole, join in Viquing staff phantasm idea and I think it would resolve most of the problems.

2 - I don't understand your SoI suggestion nor do I use SoI to know the implications of a change, so I'll leave that to someone who plays it.

3 - This one seems fine to me.

4 - I liked and added your CS suggestion, I think a only diversion is converted to stun will solve the previous issue, sw ambush and mantra no longer triggers stuns. Like the post says power mesmers setup the burst with F3 so this is a revert in that sense and still maintaining the random stuns at bay.

5 - Hadn't read Curunen's take on Mom, seems fine to me, might add later to the first post, currently I'm on phone and it's too much effort and might kitten something up.

6 - Yes, I think I've deleted some stuff on nerfs so I can erase the statement later.

I also think the stun on f3 is interesting, I would say I like it more than the ammo suggestion.

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Ooo, for gosh sakes, I forgot to suggest removing quickness having a max stack cap or increasing it since time warp can mess with it. This is prob about the third time I forgot to mention that.

Ya I knew it was a compilation and a lot of them were quality of life changes or trait reworks anyways. That is why I suggested it, just for rhetoric reasons. Don't worry bud, not blaming anyone.

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