Shave down bunkers pls.

[ErazorZ.5209]

After the (still not enough) nerfs to mesmer,we have come to a treshold.

The bunker meta is making a resurgance. Main culprit is the Engineer with the overtuned barrier and still has the potential to burst.We have the ranger who doesnt do that much damage but can sustain for a long period of time whilst (ab)using pet skills.And we have the bunker mesmer who is back from the dead(?)Accompanied mainly with condition heavy builds that also give sustain due to the 'i cant die factor' the other classes giveAnd soon to be: The required standard 1 heal ele per team to make sure noone will ever die. Ever.

First and foremost, i play glascannon exclusively, because i enjoy quick reaction times and if you arent playing it right you get punished by death, it isnt as forgiving/easy as a bunker. But it supposedly should be able to kill anyone in a 1v1 if played perfect. (this means hitting timings inbetween defensive skills, Interupting heals, dodging to stay alive. And if you havnt killed anyone within 30 sec tops you will most certainly die instantly to any way or shape of an autoattack.)

The current state of glasscannons and the options available is good. We dont need buffs right now, glass versus glass is mostly balanced.With that out of the way.

Sustain amulets, Auto proccing traits, defensive active utility/weapon skills and multiple full heals has been a problem ever since HoT came out. The overabundance of them. They need to be nerfed;

Before HoT came out each class felt distinct, They had there own areas of expertise and there own role in the meta. They had there own boons, there own way of defensives and they each had unique types of healing. The core game in my opinion was the best balanced most fun to play state of the game the game has ever seen. Highest spike damage was 10k and if you'd wanted to achieve that, you probably wouldnt be playing PvP. It was deemed as bad because literally every sneeze could kill you, there where almost no legitimate ways to defend yourself except a heal that at best healed 3k. Dodge rolling was one of the only true ways to mitigate damage (and we all know how you never have enough dodges in a teamfight)

The dodge was a big part of the game as you can probably understand. Understanding when someone was bursting you or when someone was faking an attack became detrimental. Reading in how enemies movements where like felt like playing poker. Only at a high level could you understand that if someone pressed forward once when theyve been running in circles around you the entire time, there was a potential for them to unleash there skillset upon you. Provoking, using the map to stay hidden(without stealth mind you!) where all huge parts of the game. Minimap awareness was such a crucial part of the game.

Burst, sustain damage, DoT, At the early days of guild wars 2 most people laughed at you when you went condi, it was so bad that it had to be revamped multiple times. It was bad because there where no reall ways to stay alive and the time it took to kill someone with condis was allot longer then any berserker wearing glasscannon gave you the time for. Condis did kill you if you didnt have the cleanses (wich was something almost noone used due to lack of conditions back then) most after the user who spread the condis had already died. Bursts however werent free. If you bursted you better hit that thang or else you'd be staring down a hefty long cooldown before you could actually do something trully offensive, this worked wonders with the dodge roll mechanic. Each class had there own powerlevel of burst there own strenghts and weaknesses, but they where all balanced around the timing of the dodgeroll (and in some cases with the classes that did have 'widely' accesible invurns the damage output was simply lowered or cooldowns where higher making it balanced)

Boons, Back in the day boonshare wasnt trully a thing unless you specifically specced for it. Banner warrior comes to mind. the few classes who could actually give boons away where never trully good at that department. The boons eventho very helpfull, didnt give the game that oompf they do now. Ofcourse Everyone knows what kind of things you had to do to even get to a stack of 25 might back in the days, long combos that put most of your skills on cooldown. Dont get me wrong, there where classes who used boons to great effect, D/D cele ele meta comes to mind(wich was very bad for the state of the game). But they never trully shared boons the way they do now. Eventho super strong at the highest level, most people just didnt care because they didnt see that high of a difference. (WICH WAS GOOD!) Protection was something that wasnt broadly shared. it was something you uniquely had access to in several ways but always with high cooldowns. Immunity to knockdowns stuns etc also wasnt widespread, the only class that comes to mind who actually had and used immunity was the warrior.

The world upside down;

Looking at PvP now, I see people spamming 1 thing and winning because the skill is overtuned. The game has been simplified to such a point that true challenge isnt a thing in the game anymore. Bunkers that can just simply spam there defensives and contest a node for minutes on end. Conditions that when applied instantly kill you asif they where powerbuilds. Overabundance in elitespec-traits. Overabundance in boons, Overabundance in lifegain. Overabundance in general survivablity aswell as offensive capability.

Basically from my perspective all the classes became 1 class. 'the bruiser' a jack of all trades that can hold a point for a longer amount of time, yet still spike reasonably hard, have much faster ways to cross distances, have a full heal on a power amulet, but most importantly, have wayyy too many uptime active defensives. Too high boon stacks. Too many various types of boonstacks. Every class has simply become overbloated. Due to this powercreep, as people call it, The game has also become exponentially easier to play. Every autoattack now hits like a burst how that hit in the old days. Every boon is now so widely avaiable people just dont care anymore, they will get there 25 stacks of might from someone in there party who has a single button press to unlock multiple perma boon stacks. A single button press can basically kill anyone who doesnt have an uptime of a defensive. a repeat of a what a certain skill does (burn guard comes to mind) can be spammed. Engineers can now spam barriers inbetween defensives and stay alive forever aswell. The idea is the game became allot easier, skillcap was lowered.But who pays the price?

The non elite spec builds. The core builds. The alternative builds, the creative builds. The PLAY HOW YOU WANT TO PLAY builds.

I would describe the current meta as the reincarnation of the D/D cele ele but available on all classes. Some classes hit harder then others but have less uptime active defenses, but they all have them.

i vouch for a heavy nerf on all type of bunker plays. Mainly those who have active skills in there weapon/utility slots that are meant to be defensive need to gutted. The invurnerability meta has been going on for far too long. Do not buff DPS around the board to compensate for bunkers like you did last time. Pls, do the right thing and nerf them instead.

Give everyone a chance to die, allot. Not just in 1v2's.

[Ayrilana.1396]

So you prefer to play as a glass cannon and would prefer to nerf a counter to that?

[ErazorZ.5209]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:So you prefer to play as a glass cannon and would prefer to nerf a counter to that?

A counter to that? basically everything counters a glasscannon in guild wars 2.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@ErazorZ.5209 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:So you prefer to play as a glass cannon and would prefer to nerf a counter to that?

A counter to that? basically everything counters a glasscannon in guild wars 2.

glass cannon is supposed to counter bunker lol

[Megametzler.5729]

It's specs like condi mirage, holosmith and spellbreaker that deal big damage while being able to sustain a lot that are the problem.

You know, the specs you can't just burst freely with a glass cannon, because they turn around and burst back after eating all your damage.

[Tiipi.6750]

I would rather call it scrapper meta since every other bunker is just worse than scrapper.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:So you prefer to play as a glass cannon and would prefer to nerf a counter to that?

Consider what counters bunker, if bunker is a counter to glass cannon.

Are you sure you're not generalizing all damage oriented specs with glass cannon? Cause if you are and you're defending a spec that is able to stalemate against any given damage type, then OP is right and bunker meta is coming back, with loving arms welcoming it.

GW2 focuses on active defense, not passive. If you can passively shrug off anyone throwing damage at you without needing to know which key skills you need to dodge or interrupt to not die, indefinitely as long as you are not in a +1, there is nothing stopping you from merely setting up camp on a node.

We've done this several times before. It is established the community loves not being killable until it seeps into all of pvp and turns into who is not-killable the most, at which point we all hate it.

[Snellibee.2761]

@Megametzler.5729 said:It's specs like condi mirage, holosmith and spellbreaker that deal big damage while being able to sustain a lot that are the problem.

You know, the specs you can't just burst freely with a glass cannon, because they turn around and burst back after eating all your damage.

Couldn't agree more with this, the three mentioned classes hit lik a truck but are as hard as a tank to take down. If I make one little mistake on Rev and don't dodge one CC these duelist classes are able to melt through my full health because of their insane damage. I don't understand why these classes are able to have so much damage AND sustain?

I think anet needs to apply the kind of balance Revenant and Weaver has, they can either go high damage or (mediocre)high sustain, but they're not able to be both

[VexoKyle.4817]

couldnt agree more tbh all profession have merged into the same thing. while elite specs are kinda fun and do add a certain zest into the game they have killed pvp for me. it allowed for things to become way too unblanced and you can tell anet added them without any real thought or for me looking at it care on how it would effect the game. it was a rushed implimented mechanic. I really have given up on waiting for the "mircle patch" there litrally never will be one i just wish anet would add a core only game type to pvp.

[apharma.3741]

It's literally just scrapper....we're not in bunker wars except for people spamming scrapper all over. Let's see how it does in mAT k?

[coro.3176]

In short, the meta specs are too good.

In the past, the meta builds used to be like .. maybe 10% better than the average non-meta build. These days, the power difference between them is truly absurd - like 70% or more.

Compare Soulbeast to Core RangerCompare Holo/Scrapper to Core Engietc. etc.

There are a few exceptions where core/other specs are playable.. but there is a HUGE pile of builds that can't compete with the meta builds at all. The game did not used to be that way.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

so scrapper gets buffed into usefulness and all of a sudden were in a bunker meta... even tho there are classes that can bunk better.should have seen this coming.

[Tiipi.6750]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:so scrapper gets buffed into usefulness and all of a sudden were in a bunker meta... even tho there are classes that can bunk better.should have seen this coming.

What are the classes able to bunker better than scrapper ?

[Tycura.1982]

Too much damage the community says. Too much condi, too many mesmers. Anet nerfs damage and buffs support bunkers.Too many bunkers, they never die.

Sorry Anet but you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@ErazorZ.5209 said:After the (still not enough) nerfs to mesmer,we have come to a treshold.

I love how you start off your essay with this, but go on to basically complain about bunkers and everything else, none of which applies to mesmers. Just had to slip that in there, right? Some things never change (i.e. your vendetta against mesmers).

I do agree that healing is out of control. I'm tired of having to burn through effectively 2 or 3 health bars on certain builds like core Guardian and Reaper.

@Megametzler.5729 said:It's specs like condi mirage, holosmith and spellbreaker that deal big damage while being able to sustain a lot that are the problem.

You know, the specs you can't just burst freely with a glass cannon, because they turn around and burst back after eating all your damage.

That statement, with respect to condi-mirage at least, is so two weeks ago (pre-patch). In case you missed it, condi-mirage had its damage output gutted by 50%+ in almost all regards. If you're still taking lots of damage from them, the problem isn't their spec.

@Snellibee.2761 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:It's specs like condi mirage, holosmith and spellbreaker that deal big damage while being able to sustain a lot that are the problem.

You know, the specs you can't just burst freely with a glass cannon, because they turn around and burst back after eating all your damage.

Couldn't agree more with this, the three mentioned classes hit lik a truck but are as hard as a tank to take down. If I make one little mistake on Rev and don't dodge one CC these duelist classes are able to melt through my full health because of their insane damage. I don't understand why these classes are able to have so much damage AND sustain?

I think anet needs to apply the kind of balance Revenant and Weaver has, they can either go high damage or (mediocre)high sustain, but they're not able to be both

Maybe the problem is that you're trying to 1v1 duelist classes with Revenant, a +1 class. That, and it's pretty well-known that condi-mirage counters Revenant. I respect you playing Revenant. It's a high skill class. But Mesmer isn't the problem, especially post-patch. Soulbeast and Holo on the other hand have been flying under the radar for a long time now.

[Maddog.3716]

@Snellibee.2761 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:It's specs like condi mirage, holosmith and spellbreaker that deal big damage while being able to sustain a lot that are the problem.

You know, the specs you can't just burst freely with a glass cannon, because they turn around and burst back after eating all your damage.

Couldn't agree more with this, the three mentioned classes hit lik a truck but are as hard as a tank to take down. If I make one little mistake on Rev and don't dodge one CC these duelist classes are able to melt through my full health because of their insane damage. I don't understand why these classes are able to have so much damage AND sustain?

I think anet needs to apply the kind of balance Revenant and Weaver has, they can either go high damage or (mediocre)high sustain, but they're not able to be both

Bro try other builds. The world doesn't revolve around Power Shiro. Power Shiro is a thief so balance will not be around the thief.You have to try new things to understand the situation, even if it's not meta. If it were so (с) (I think anet needs to apply the kind of balance Revenant and Weaver has, they can either go high damage or (mediocre)high sustain, but they're not able to be both) the game would not be interesting in battle 5 vs 5

[Rusty.9348]

@ErazorZ.5209 said:

First and foremost, i play glascannon exclusively, because i enjoy quick reaction times...So what? I enjoy playing slow and safe. Why should your preferences be more important than mine?

[Maddog.3716]

@Rusty.9348 said:

@ErazorZ.5209 said:

First and foremost, i play glascannon exclusively, because i enjoy quick reaction times...So what? I enjoy playing slow and safe. Why should your preferences be more important than mine?

I agree with you. The only problem is that the current Scrapper has no competition. In standard Soloq battles better to take a Scrapper than other bunker. And here comes the question of nerf(a bit) Scrapper or UP other potential bunker.

[Rusty.9348]

@Maddog.3716 said:The only problem is that the current Scrapper has no competition.It's not even funny anymore.

[Maddog.3716]

@Rusty.9348 said:

@Maddog.3716 said:The only problem is that the current Scrapper has no competition.It's not even funny anymore.

Why? Imho Scrapper is better than Chronobunker for team. It makes no sense to compare with others.

[Rusty.9348]

All the recent topics concerning scrapper are full of "recipes" how to beat a scrapper with almost any class. At least if you can't beat him you can easily run away and be useful somewhere else. I know no class that can be chased by a scrapper.

[Maddog.3716]

@"Rusty.9348" said:All the recent topics concerning scrapper are full of "recipes" how to beat a scrapper with almost any class. At least if you can't beat him you can easily run away and be useful somewhere else. I know no class that can be chased by a scrapper.

Everything is relative. Compare yourself to Crhonobunker for the team. Thanks for the advice. I know I can run.

[mixxed.5862]

Remove Rune of Earth and Rune of Sanctuary from PvP. Good start already and maybe duels are slightly more likely to not go on forever.

[Rusty.9348]

Well, Chrono can spend some time in shadow, like Scrapper did before. Before it gets reworked.

@mixxed.5862 said:Remove Rune of Earth and Rune of Sanctuary from PvP. Good start already and maybe duels are slightly more likely to not go on forever.Scrappers often use Herald or even Leadership, but alas it doesn't help poor PvPers to kill them

[Maddog.3716]

@Rusty.9348 said:Well, Chrono can spend some time in shadow, like Scrapper did before. Before it gets reworked.

You said what he was doing for himself. I'm asking you to compare what he's doing for the team.P. s. I'm not against the current Scrapper I'm for justice.