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Shave down bunkers pls.


ErazorZ.5209

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@Rusty.9348 said:

@mixxed.5862 said:Remove Rune of Earth and Rune of Sanctuary from PvP. Good start already and maybe duels are slightly more likely to not go on forever.Scrappers often use Herald or even Leadership, but alas it doesn't help poor PvPers to kill them

Wasn't meant to be targeted at Scrapper in particular but more the general state of sidenoders. The two runes offer too much resustain and make duels more boring than they need to be. Of course it won't magically solve the issue but it'd be a first step.

As for Scrapper in particular, here are my thoughts:

  • Bulwark Gyro should only pulse barrier depending on the number of allies affected, add an aegis at the start to make up for it a bit (and so in a 1v1 it requires at least a tiny notch of brain to use effectively). Plus barrier duration in general should be reduced in PvP! At 5 seconds it's too easy to get the full value out of it - which completely undermines its design.
  • Superspeed duration on Shocking Speed could stand being reduced by a second (or maybe two).
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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:(...)

@Megametzler.5729 said:It's specs like
condi mirage
, holosmith and spellbreaker that deal big damage while being able to sustain a lot that are the problem.

You know, the specs you can't just burst freely with a glass cannon, because they turn around and burst back after eating all your damage.

That statement, with respect to condi-mirage at least, is so two weeks ago (pre-patch). In case you missed it, condi-mirage had its damage output gutted by 50%+ in almost all regards. If you're still taking lots of damage from them, the problem isn't their spec.

(...)

Well, I know it has been nerfed, but I have still seen some condi mirages doing kind of well. It looks like they are still looking for an optimal build - much like scrapper -, but so far: They seem to be playable, but nerfed. We will see whether they still belong in meta. But: They still counter a lot of glass cannons without condi clear, high block or evasion uptime. That's why they do belong into this group - maybe not meta anymore, but we'll see. The amount of different conditions is still the same, even though the amount of specific conditions is reduced (cover-conditions forcing cleanses into a powercreep).

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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:Maybe the problem is that you're trying to 1v1 duelist classes with Revenant, a +1 class. That, and it's pretty well-known that condi-mirage counters Revenant. I respect you playing Revenant. It's a high skill class. But Mesmer isn't the problem, especially post-patch. Soulbeast and Holo on the other hand have been flying under the radar for a long time now.

I never try to duel a Duelist class, I played enough Revenant to know my targets, but I'm talking about all the occasions these classes are coming to mid or even if I'm fighting them 2v1. Their damage is just WAY too high for the sustain they're able to do. Like I said a duelist should not be able to take down your full health bar if he managed to CC you once. Duelists really are DPS' in disguise, I'm getting hit for 8k by corona burst from holosmiths whilst they're able to constantly kite easily with their 3s leaps and their stealths and insane heal bursts. Warriors hitting me for 8k aswel with arcing slice while they're still being really tanky.

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@Megametzler.5729I'm all in favor of Mesmer, especially Mirage, becoming higher skill to play while still being effective in competent hands. I never want to see more than one Mesmer on each team. The visual cluster from one is bad enough. So far, I have been seeing a lot fewer Mesmers of any spec in matches, which is a good sign. Those that still play Mesmer, especially axe Mirage, after the heavy nerf have to be pretty committed at the very least.

@Snellibee.2761Other than one, well known, high risk, high reward burst on power Mesmers, how else is Mesmer's damage too high at this point? Condi builds had their burst gutted, so they can mainly only gradually ramp conditions, which have far more counterplay than direct, power-based damage like the Holo and Warrior attacks you mentioned.

Ideally, I think duelists, which are a type of side-noder, should be moderate damage, moderate sustain. Not as much damage as a true DPSer, not as much sustain as a bunker. That about describes most Mesmer builds in their current state.

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@"ErazorZ.5209" said:After the (still not enough) nerfs to mesmer,we have come to a treshold.

The bunker meta is making a resurgance. Main culprit is the Engineer with the overtuned barrier and still has the potential to burst.We have the ranger who doesnt do that much damage but can sustain for a long period of time whilst (ab)using pet skills.And we have the bunker mesmer who is back from the dead(?)Accompanied mainly with condition heavy builds that also give sustain due to the 'i cant die factor' the other classes giveAnd soon to be: The required standard 1 heal ele per team to make sure noone will ever die. Ever.

First and foremost, i play glascannon exclusively, because i enjoy quick reaction times and if you arent playing it right you get punished by death, it isnt as forgiving/easy as a bunker. But it supposedly should be able to kill anyone in a 1v1 if played perfect. (this means hitting timings inbetween defensive skills, Interupting heals, dodging to stay alive. And if you havnt killed anyone within 30 sec tops you will most certainly die instantly to any way or shape of an autoattack.)

The current state of glasscannons and the options available is good. We dont need buffs right now, glass versus glass is mostly balanced.With that out of the way.

Sustain amulets, Auto proccing traits, defensive active utility/weapon skills and multiple full heals has been a problem ever since HoT came out. The overabundance of them. They need to be nerfed;

Before HoT came out each class felt distinct, They had there own areas of expertise and there own role in the meta. They had there own boons, there own way of defensives and they each had unique types of healing. The core game in my opinion was the best balanced most fun to play state of the game the game has ever seen. Highest spike damage was 10k and if you'd wanted to achieve that, you probably wouldnt be playing PvP. It was deemed as bad because literally every sneeze could kill you, there where almost no legitimate ways to defend yourself except a heal that at best healed 3k. Dodge rolling was one of the only true ways to mitigate damage (and we all know how you never have enough dodges in a teamfight)

The dodge was a big part of the game as you can probably understand. Understanding when someone was bursting you or when someone was faking an attack became detrimental. Reading in how enemies movements where like felt like playing poker. Only at a high level could you understand that if someone pressed forward once when theyve been running in circles around you the entire time, there was a potential for them to unleash there skillset upon you. Provoking, using the map to stay hidden(without stealth mind you!) where all huge parts of the game. Minimap awareness was such a crucial part of the game.

Burst, sustain damage, DoT, At the early days of guild wars 2 most people laughed at you when you went condi, it was so bad that it had to be revamped multiple times. It was bad because there where no reall ways to stay alive and the time it took to kill someone with condis was allot longer then any berserker wearing glasscannon gave you the time for. Condis did kill you if you didnt have the cleanses (wich was something almost noone used due to lack of conditions back then) most after the user who spread the condis had already died. Bursts however werent free. If you bursted you better hit that thang or else you'd be staring down a hefty long cooldown before you could actually do something trully offensive, this worked wonders with the dodge roll mechanic. Each class had there own powerlevel of burst there own strenghts and weaknesses, but they where all balanced around the timing of the dodgeroll (and in some cases with the classes that did have 'widely' accesible invurns the damage output was simply lowered or cooldowns where higher making it balanced)

Boons, Back in the day boonshare wasnt trully a thing unless you specifically specced for it. Banner warrior comes to mind. the few classes who could actually give boons away where never trully good at that department. The boons eventho very helpfull, didnt give the game that oompf they do now. Ofcourse Everyone knows what kind of things you had to do to even get to a stack of 25 might back in the days, long combos that put most of your skills on cooldown. Dont get me wrong, there where classes who used boons to great effect, D/D cele ele meta comes to mind(wich was very bad for the state of the game). But they never trully shared boons the way they do now. Eventho super strong at the highest level, most people just didnt care because they didnt see that high of a difference. (WICH WAS GOOD!) Protection was something that wasnt broadly shared. it was something you uniquely had access to in several ways but always with high cooldowns. Immunity to knockdowns stuns etc also wasnt widespread, the only class that comes to mind who actually had and used immunity was the warrior.

The world upside down;

Looking at PvP now, I see people spamming 1 thing and winning because the skill is overtuned. The game has been simplified to such a point that true challenge isnt a thing in the game anymore. Bunkers that can just simply spam there defensives and contest a node for minutes on end. Conditions that when applied instantly kill you asif they where powerbuilds. Overabundance in elitespec-traits. Overabundance in boons, Overabundance in lifegain. Overabundance in general survivablity aswell as offensive capability.

Basically from my perspective all the classes became 1 class. 'the bruiser' a jack of all trades that can hold a point for a longer amount of time, yet still spike reasonably hard, have much faster ways to cross distances, have a full heal on a power amulet, but most importantly, have wayyy too many uptime active defensives. Too high boon stacks. Too many various types of boonstacks. Every class has simply become overbloated. Due to this powercreep, as people call it, The game has also become exponentially easier to play. Every autoattack now hits like a burst how that hit in the old days. Every boon is now so widely avaiable people just dont care anymore, they will get there 25 stacks of might from someone in there party who has a single button press to unlock multiple perma boon stacks. A single button press can basically kill anyone who doesnt have an uptime of a defensive. a repeat of a what a certain skill does (burn guard comes to mind) can be spammed. Engineers can now spam barriers inbetween defensives and stay alive forever aswell. The idea is the game became allot easier, skillcap was lowered.But who pays the price?

The non elite spec builds. The core builds. The alternative builds, the creative builds. The PLAY HOW YOU WANT TO PLAY builds.

I would describe the current meta as the reincarnation of the D/D cele ele but available on all classes. Some classes hit harder then others but have less uptime active defenses, but they all have them.

i vouch for a heavy nerf on all type of bunker plays. Mainly those who have active skills in there weapon/utility slots that are meant to be defensive need to gutted. The invurnerability meta has been going on for far too long. Do not buff DPS around the board to compensate for bunkers like you did last time. Pls, do the right thing and nerf them instead.

Give everyone a chance to die, allot. Not just in 1v2's.

Can you show me what the "burst" of a bunker scrapper is? As far as I know. There's the 5 and 3 combo and skill 2. All with big telegraphs that are easily avoidable.

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@TorQ.7041 said:

@"ErazorZ.5209" said:After the (still not enough) nerfs to mesmer,we have come to a treshold.

The bunker meta is making a resurgance. Main culprit is the Engineer with the overtuned barrier and still has the potential to burst.We have the ranger who doesnt do that much damage but can sustain for a long period of time whilst (ab)using pet skills.And we have the bunker mesmer who is back from the dead(?)Accompanied mainly with condition heavy builds that also give sustain due to the 'i cant die factor' the other classes giveAnd soon to be: The required standard 1 heal ele per team to make sure noone will ever die. Ever.

First and foremost, i play glascannon exclusively, because i enjoy quick reaction times and if you arent playing it right you get punished by death, it isnt as forgiving/easy as a bunker. But it supposedly should be able to kill anyone in a 1v1 if played perfect. (this means hitting timings inbetween defensive skills, Interupting heals, dodging to stay alive. And if you havnt killed anyone within 30 sec tops you will most certainly die instantly to any way or shape of an autoattack.)

The current state of glasscannons and the options available is good. We dont need buffs right now, glass versus glass is mostly balanced.With that out of the way.

Sustain amulets, Auto proccing traits, defensive active utility/weapon skills and multiple full heals has been a problem ever since HoT came out. The overabundance of them. They need to be nerfed;

Before HoT came out each class felt distinct, They had there own areas of expertise and there own role in the meta. They had there own boons, there own way of defensives and they each had unique types of healing. The core game in my opinion was the best balanced most fun to play state of the game the game has ever seen. Highest spike damage was 10k and if you'd wanted to achieve that, you probably wouldnt be playing PvP. It was deemed as bad because literally every sneeze could kill you, there where almost no legitimate ways to defend yourself except a heal that at best healed 3k. Dodge rolling was one of the only true ways to mitigate damage (and we all know how you never have enough dodges in a teamfight)

The dodge was a big part of the game as you can probably understand. Understanding when someone was bursting you or when someone was faking an attack became detrimental. Reading in how enemies movements where like felt like playing poker. Only at a high level could you understand that if someone pressed forward once when theyve been running in circles around you the entire time, there was a potential for them to unleash there skillset upon you. Provoking, using the map to stay hidden(without stealth mind you!) where all huge parts of the game. Minimap awareness was such a crucial part of the game.

Burst, sustain damage, DoT, At the early days of guild wars 2 most people laughed at you when you went condi, it was so bad that it had to be revamped multiple times. It was bad because there where no reall ways to stay alive and the time it took to kill someone with condis was allot longer then any berserker wearing glasscannon gave you the time for. Condis did kill you if you didnt have the cleanses (wich was something almost noone used due to lack of conditions back then) most after the user who spread the condis had already died. Bursts however werent free. If you bursted you better hit that thang or else you'd be staring down a hefty long cooldown before you could actually do something trully offensive, this worked wonders with the dodge roll mechanic. Each class had there own powerlevel of burst there own strenghts and weaknesses, but they where all balanced around the timing of the dodgeroll (and in some cases with the classes that did have 'widely' accesible invurns the damage output was simply lowered or cooldowns where higher making it balanced)

Boons, Back in the day boonshare wasnt trully a thing unless you specifically specced for it. Banner warrior comes to mind. the few classes who could actually give boons away where never trully good at that department. The boons eventho very helpfull, didnt give the game that oompf they do now. Ofcourse Everyone knows what kind of things you had to do to even get to a stack of 25 might back in the days, long combos that put most of your skills on cooldown. Dont get me wrong, there where classes who used boons to great effect, D/D cele ele meta comes to mind(wich was very bad for the state of the game). But they never trully shared boons the way they do now. Eventho super strong at the highest level, most people just didnt care because they didnt see that high of a difference. (WICH WAS GOOD!) Protection was something that wasnt broadly shared. it was something you uniquely had access to in several ways but always with high cooldowns. Immunity to knockdowns stuns etc also wasnt widespread, the only class that comes to mind who actually had and used immunity was the warrior.

The world upside down;

Looking at PvP now, I see people spamming 1 thing and winning because the skill is overtuned. The game has been simplified to such a point that true challenge isnt a thing in the game anymore. Bunkers that can just simply spam there defensives and contest a node for minutes on end. Conditions that when applied instantly kill you asif they where powerbuilds. Overabundance in elitespec-traits. Overabundance in boons, Overabundance in lifegain. Overabundance in general survivablity aswell as offensive capability.

Basically from my perspective all the classes became 1 class. 'the bruiser' a jack of all trades that can hold a point for a longer amount of time, yet still spike reasonably hard, have much faster ways to cross distances, have a full heal on a power amulet, but most importantly, have wayyy too many uptime active defensives. Too high boon stacks. Too many various types of boonstacks. Every class has simply become overbloated. Due to this powercreep, as people call it, The game has also become exponentially easier to play. Every autoattack now hits like a burst how that hit in the old days. Every boon is now so widely avaiable people just dont care anymore, they will get there 25 stacks of might from someone in there party who has a single button press to unlock multiple perma boon stacks. A single button press can basically kill anyone who doesnt have an uptime of a defensive. a repeat of a what a certain skill does (burn guard comes to mind) can be spammed. Engineers can now spam barriers inbetween defensives and stay alive forever aswell. The idea is the game became allot easier, skillcap was lowered.But who pays the price?

The non elite spec builds. The core builds. The alternative builds, the creative builds. The PLAY HOW YOU WANT TO PLAY builds.

I would describe the current meta as the reincarnation of the D/D cele ele but available on all classes. Some classes hit harder then others but have less uptime active defenses, but they all have them.

i vouch for a heavy nerf on all type of bunker plays. Mainly those who have active skills in there weapon/utility slots that are meant to be defensive need to gutted. The invurnerability meta has been going on for far too long. Do not buff DPS around the board to compensate for bunkers like you did last time. Pls, do the right thing and nerf them instead.

Give everyone a chance to die, allot. Not just in 1v2's.

Can you show me what the "burst" of a bunker scrapper is? As far as I know. There's the 5 and 3 combo and skill 2. All with big telegraphs that are easily avoidable.

Just because something is avoidable doesnt negate its existance. In group fights allot of the time you are out of dodges, and then the damage will still come through. The idea is that a class as bunker as engi should never have this capability to have this kind of burst.

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@"TorQ.7041" said:Can you show me what the "burst" of a bunker scrapper is? As far as I know. There's the 5 and 3 combo and skill 2. All with big telegraphs that are easily avoidable.

So is literally all Ranger damage and yet this forum cries crocodile tears whenever the class is anything more than a free kill.

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Even cele ele was killable if you played well / got lucky, I used to duel some of them on shatter Mesmer. They were still reliant on might stacking rotation, using evasive arcana properly, etc. Interrupting burning speed for example could really screw them over. Same went for the other old 1v1 classes; reflecting pindown or overcharged shot could change the tide of battle. Necro could be kited, blinded, interrupted. Bruisers generally used celestial amulet so they had lower burst than the roamers. Now (really since 23 june 2015) certain classes are way too well-rounded and are good at everything. Bruisers don't need defensive stats and can instead use amulets like demolisher, so they have essentially the same damage as the squishies. You could write an essay about how trait powercreep worsened this game.

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@Substance E.4852 said:

@"TorQ.7041" said:Can you show me what the "burst" of a bunker scrapper is? As far as I know. There's the 5 and 3 combo and skill 2. All with big telegraphs that are easily avoidable.

So is literally all Ranger damage and yet this forum cries crocodile tears whenever the class is anything more than a free kill.

Imbalance comes from 2 situations in gw2, lack of knowledge from the dev's since they want a cheap skill game, and the design of the mandatory aoe or power creep spam faster as u can type or ur class alows u to use macros for bursting (not counting with those players using macros+wpe)

About ranger the issue IMO i think its due the block/absorv/reflect stuff being treated has the same, IF Anet created a better mechanics besides a slacker scrub frienldy solution for it... wich is what we have now, cause actually i think gw2 players would cry if they had to think wich skil they have to use on the combat situation.

But reflects could be countered with the above situations as well (has they still can, be blocked, abosorved and refelcted) and unblcokables could bypass blocks only and apply a status whenever they did, while absortion could be some value of damage absorved by the dome or defined by some stat ot static value, imagine a dome from guardian reducing damage casted on the dome by 30-40%, could scale with vitality or and toughness.

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@everyman.4375 said:I would rather call it scrapper meta since every other bunker is just worse than scrapper.

This. I started playing a scrapper after the changes -- it's fun (for me, being that I'm an ele main, and ever since I can remember we only were ever really effective as a bunker) -- but I do agree it's pretty braindead -- it's like a much better, more mobile ele; and with destroyer amulet, you can still kill things because their healing and barrier is still extremely effective without having to invest in healing power.

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

@"TorQ.7041" said:Can you show me what the "burst" of a bunker scrapper is? As far as I know. There's the 5 and 3 combo and skill 2. All with big telegraphs that are easily avoidable.

So is literally all Ranger damage and yet this forum cries crocodile tears whenever the class is anything more than a free kill.

Imbalance comes from 2 situations in gw2, lack of knowledge from the dev's since they want a cheap skill game, and the design of the mandatory aoe or power creep spam faster as u can type or ur class alows u to use macros for bursting (not counting with those players using macros+wpe)

About ranger the issue IMO i think its due the block/absorv/reflect stuff being treated has the same, IF Anet created a better mechanics besides a slacker scrub frienldy solution for it... wich is what we have now, cause actually i think gw2 players would cry if they had to think wich skil they have to use on the combat situation.

But reflects could be countered with the above situations as well (has they still can, be blocked, abosorved and refelcted) and unblcokables could bypass blocks only and apply a status whenever they did, while absortion could be some value of damage absorved by the dome or defined by some stat ot static value, imagine a dome from guardian reducing damage casted on the dome by 30-40%, could scale with vitality or and toughness.

I think that ship sailed a long time ago back in GW1 when they folded "Block" and "Evade" into the same mechanic.

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@ErazorZ.5209 said:

@ErazorZ.5209 said:After the (still not enough) nerfs to mesmer,we have come to a treshold.

The bunker meta is making a resurgance. Main culprit is the Engineer with the overtuned barrier and still has the potential to burst.We have the ranger who doesnt do that much damage but can sustain for a long period of time whilst (ab)using pet skills.And we have the bunker mesmer who is back from the dead(?)Accompanied mainly with condition heavy builds that also give sustain due to the 'i cant die factor' the other classes giveAnd soon to be: The required standard 1 heal ele per team to make sure noone will ever die. Ever.

First and foremost, i play glascannon exclusively, because i enjoy quick reaction times and if you arent playing it right you get punished by death, it isnt as forgiving/easy as a bunker. But it supposedly should be able to kill anyone in a 1v1 if played perfect. (this means hitting timings inbetween defensive skills, Interupting heals, dodging to stay alive. And if you havnt killed anyone within 30 sec tops you will most certainly die instantly to any way or shape of an autoattack.)

The current state of glasscannons and the options available is good. We dont need buffs right now, glass versus glass is mostly balanced.With that out of the way.

Sustain amulets, Auto proccing traits, defensive active utility/weapon skills and multiple full heals has been a problem ever since HoT came out. The overabundance of them. They need to be nerfed;

Before HoT came out each class felt distinct, They had there own areas of expertise and there own role in the meta. They had there own boons, there own way of defensives and they each had unique types of healing. The core game in my opinion was the best balanced most fun to play state of the game the game has ever seen. Highest spike damage was 10k and if you'd wanted to achieve that, you probably wouldnt be playing PvP. It was deemed as bad because literally every sneeze could kill you, there where almost no legitimate ways to defend yourself except a heal that at best healed 3k. Dodge rolling was one of the only true ways to mitigate damage (and we all know how you never have enough dodges in a teamfight)

The dodge was a big part of the game as you can probably understand. Understanding when someone was bursting you or when someone was faking an attack became detrimental. Reading in how enemies movements where like felt like playing poker. Only at a high level could you understand that if someone pressed forward once when theyve been running in circles around you the entire time, there was a potential for them to unleash there skillset upon you. Provoking, using the map to stay hidden(without stealth mind you!) where all huge parts of the game. Minimap awareness was such a crucial part of the game.

Burst, sustain damage, DoT, At the early days of guild wars 2 most people laughed at you when you went condi, it was so bad that it had to be revamped multiple times. It was bad because there where no reall ways to stay alive and the time it took to kill someone with condis was allot longer then any berserker wearing glasscannon gave you the time for. Condis did kill you if you didnt have the cleanses (wich was something almost noone used due to lack of conditions back then) most after the user who spread the condis had already died. Bursts however werent free. If you bursted you better hit that thang or else you'd be staring down a hefty long cooldown before you could actually do something trully offensive, this worked wonders with the dodge roll mechanic. Each class had there own powerlevel of burst there own strenghts and weaknesses, but they where all balanced around the timing of the dodgeroll (and in some cases with the classes that did have 'widely' accesible invurns the damage output was simply lowered or cooldowns where higher making it balanced)

Boons, Back in the day boonshare wasnt trully a thing unless you specifically specced for it. Banner warrior comes to mind. the few classes who could actually give boons away where never trully good at that department. The boons eventho very helpfull, didnt give the game that oompf they do now. Ofcourse Everyone knows what kind of things you had to do to even get to a stack of 25 might back in the days, long combos that put most of your skills on cooldown. Dont get me wrong, there where classes who used boons to great effect, D/D cele ele meta comes to mind(wich was very bad for the state of the game). But they never trully shared boons the way they do now. Eventho super strong at the highest level, most people just didnt care because they didnt see that high of a difference. (WICH WAS GOOD!) Protection was something that wasnt broadly shared. it was something you uniquely had access to in several ways but always with high cooldowns. Immunity to knockdowns stuns etc also wasnt widespread, the only class that comes to mind who actually had and used immunity was the warrior.

The world upside down;

Looking at PvP now, I see people spamming 1 thing and winning because the skill is overtuned. The game has been simplified to such a point that true challenge isnt a thing in the game anymore. Bunkers that can just simply spam there defensives and contest a node for minutes on end. Conditions that when applied instantly kill you asif they where powerbuilds. Overabundance in elitespec-traits. Overabundance in boons, Overabundance in lifegain. Overabundance in general survivablity aswell as offensive capability.

Basically from my perspective all the classes became 1 class. 'the bruiser' a jack of all trades that can hold a point for a longer amount of time, yet still spike reasonably hard, have much faster ways to cross distances, have a full heal on a power amulet, but most importantly, have wayyy too many uptime active defensives. Too high boon stacks. Too many various types of boonstacks. Every class has simply become overbloated. Due to this powercreep, as people call it, The game has also become exponentially easier to play. Every autoattack now hits like a burst how that hit in the old days. Every boon is now so widely avaiable people just dont care anymore, they will get there 25 stacks of might from someone in there party who has a single button press to unlock multiple perma boon stacks. A single button press can basically kill anyone who doesnt have an uptime of a defensive. a repeat of a what a certain skill does (burn guard comes to mind) can be spammed. Engineers can now spam barriers inbetween defensives and stay alive forever aswell. The idea is the game became allot easier, skillcap was lowered.But who pays the price?

The non elite spec builds. The core builds. The alternative builds, the creative builds. The PLAY HOW YOU WANT TO PLAY builds.

I would describe the current meta as the reincarnation of the D/D cele ele but available on all classes. Some classes hit harder then others but have less uptime active defenses, but they all have them.

i vouch for a heavy nerf on all type of bunker plays. Mainly those who have active skills in there weapon/utility slots that are meant to be defensive need to gutted. The invurnerability meta has been going on for far too long. Do not buff DPS around the board to compensate for bunkers like you did last time. Pls, do the right thing and nerf them instead.

Give everyone a chance to die, allot. Not just in 1v2's.

Can you show me what the "burst" of a bunker scrapper is? As far as I know. There's the 5 and 3 combo and skill 2. All with big telegraphs that are easily avoidable.

Just because something is avoidable doesnt negate its existance. In group fights allot of the time you are out of dodges, and then the damage will still come through. The idea is that a class as bunker as engi should never have this capability to have this kind of burst.

I literally have no idea what your talking about. Since the scrapper dmg is basically like a wet noodle. Literally no 1 should be dying to a scrapper. It's strength is basically sitting on node and not dying. It really doesn't have any really burst potential. Any class can really just walk away and reset at any point in time since a scrapper has no chase potential.

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@ErazorZ.5209 said:

@ErazorZ.5209 said:After the (still not enough) nerfs to mesmer,we have come to a treshold.

The bunker meta is making a resurgance. Main culprit is the Engineer with the overtuned barrier and still has the potential to burst.We have the ranger who doesnt do that much damage but can sustain for a long period of time whilst (ab)using pet skills.And we have the bunker mesmer who is back from the dead(?)Accompanied mainly with condition heavy builds that also give sustain due to the 'i cant die factor' the other classes giveAnd soon to be: The required standard 1 heal ele per team to make sure noone will ever die. Ever.

First and foremost, i play glascannon exclusively, because i enjoy quick reaction times and if you arent playing it right you get punished by death, it isnt as forgiving/easy as a bunker. But it supposedly should be able to kill anyone in a 1v1 if played perfect. (this means hitting timings inbetween defensive skills, Interupting heals, dodging to stay alive. And if you havnt killed anyone within 30 sec tops you will most certainly die instantly to any way or shape of an autoattack.)

The current state of glasscannons and the options available is good. We dont need buffs right now, glass versus glass is mostly balanced.With that out of the way.

Sustain amulets, Auto proccing traits, defensive active utility/weapon skills and multiple full heals has been a problem ever since HoT came out. The overabundance of them. They need to be nerfed;

Before HoT came out each class felt distinct, They had there own areas of expertise and there own role in the meta. They had there own boons, there own way of defensives and they each had unique types of healing. The core game in my opinion was the best balanced most fun to play state of the game the game has ever seen. Highest spike damage was 10k and if you'd wanted to achieve that, you probably wouldnt be playing PvP. It was deemed as bad because literally every sneeze could kill you, there where almost no legitimate ways to defend yourself except a heal that at best healed 3k. Dodge rolling was one of the only true ways to mitigate damage (and we all know how you never have enough dodges in a teamfight)

The dodge was a big part of the game as you can probably understand. Understanding when someone was bursting you or when someone was faking an attack became detrimental. Reading in how enemies movements where like felt like playing poker. Only at a high level could you understand that if someone pressed forward once when theyve been running in circles around you the entire time, there was a potential for them to unleash there skillset upon you. Provoking, using the map to stay hidden(without stealth mind you!) where all huge parts of the game. Minimap awareness was such a crucial part of the game.

Burst, sustain damage, DoT, At the early days of guild wars 2 most people laughed at you when you went condi, it was so bad that it had to be revamped multiple times. It was bad because there where no reall ways to stay alive and the time it took to kill someone with condis was allot longer then any berserker wearing glasscannon gave you the time for. Condis did kill you if you didnt have the cleanses (wich was something almost noone used due to lack of conditions back then) most after the user who spread the condis had already died. Bursts however werent free. If you bursted you better hit that thang or else you'd be staring down a hefty long cooldown before you could actually do something trully offensive, this worked wonders with the dodge roll mechanic. Each class had there own powerlevel of burst there own strenghts and weaknesses, but they where all balanced around the timing of the dodgeroll (and in some cases with the classes that did have 'widely' accesible invurns the damage output was simply lowered or cooldowns where higher making it balanced)

Boons, Back in the day boonshare wasnt trully a thing unless you specifically specced for it. Banner warrior comes to mind. the few classes who could actually give boons away where never trully good at that department. The boons eventho very helpfull, didnt give the game that oompf they do now. Ofcourse Everyone knows what kind of things you had to do to even get to a stack of 25 might back in the days, long combos that put most of your skills on cooldown. Dont get me wrong, there where classes who used boons to great effect, D/D cele ele meta comes to mind(wich was very bad for the state of the game). But they never trully shared boons the way they do now. Eventho super strong at the highest level, most people just didnt care because they didnt see that high of a difference. (WICH WAS GOOD!) Protection was something that wasnt broadly shared. it was something you uniquely had access to in several ways but always with high cooldowns. Immunity to knockdowns stuns etc also wasnt widespread, the only class that comes to mind who actually had and used immunity was the warrior.

The world upside down;

Looking at PvP now, I see people spamming 1 thing and winning because the skill is overtuned. The game has been simplified to such a point that true challenge isnt a thing in the game anymore. Bunkers that can just simply spam there defensives and contest a node for minutes on end. Conditions that when applied instantly kill you asif they where powerbuilds. Overabundance in elitespec-traits. Overabundance in boons, Overabundance in lifegain. Overabundance in general survivablity aswell as offensive capability.

Basically from my perspective all the classes became 1 class. 'the bruiser' a jack of all trades that can hold a point for a longer amount of time, yet still spike reasonably hard, have much faster ways to cross distances, have a full heal on a power amulet, but most importantly, have wayyy too many uptime active defensives. Too high boon stacks. Too many various types of boonstacks. Every class has simply become overbloated. Due to this powercreep, as people call it, The game has also become exponentially easier to play. Every autoattack now hits like a burst how that hit in the old days. Every boon is now so widely avaiable people just dont care anymore, they will get there 25 stacks of might from someone in there party who has a single button press to unlock multiple perma boon stacks. A single button press can basically kill anyone who doesnt have an uptime of a defensive. a repeat of a what a certain skill does (burn guard comes to mind) can be spammed. Engineers can now spam barriers inbetween defensives and stay alive forever aswell. The idea is the game became allot easier, skillcap was lowered.But who pays the price?

The non elite spec builds. The core builds. The alternative builds, the creative builds. The PLAY HOW YOU WANT TO PLAY builds.

I would describe the current meta as the reincarnation of the D/D cele ele but available on all classes. Some classes hit harder then others but have less uptime active defenses, but they all have them.

i vouch for a heavy nerf on all type of bunker plays. Mainly those who have active skills in there weapon/utility slots that are meant to be defensive need to gutted. The invurnerability meta has been going on for far too long. Do not buff DPS around the board to compensate for bunkers like you did last time. Pls, do the right thing and nerf them instead.

Give everyone a chance to die, allot. Not just in 1v2's.

Can you show me what the "burst" of a bunker scrapper is? As far as I know. There's the 5 and 3 combo and skill 2. All with big telegraphs that are easily avoidable.

Just because something is avoidable doesnt negate its existance. In group fights allot of the time you are out of dodges, and then the damage will still come through. The idea is that a class as bunker as engi should never have this capability to have this kind of burst.

Seriously . . Man please make a scrapper n see how much dmg it does. U can basically sit there and let a scrapper use all it's skills on u n it won't go thru half hp.

Literally no 1 is complaining about scrap dmg. It has insane sustain. That's about it.

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@ErazorZ.5209 said:After the (still not enough) nerfs to mesmer,we have come to a threshold.

The bunker meta is making a resurgence. The main culprit is the Engineer with the over tuned barrier and still has the potential to burst.We have the Meta Soulbeast who doesn't do that much damage but can sustain for a long period of time whilst (ab)using pet skills.And we have the bunker mesmer who is back from the dead(?)

You forgotFirebrandWeaverProt HoloSpellbreakerChronomancer

I think the Scrapper buffand the mesmer nerf that made warriors more viable=straw that broke the camels back

Played a number of games last nightIn one game, there were 4 bunkers on the other team, until one switched to his bunker.Very good, my team of Rag Tag Misfits against 5 Bunkers. :(

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